Irish Christmas sign to hang at City Hall again this year

Oct 2, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Fermanagh Today

DUP efforts to prevent the display of a Happy Christmas sign in Irish on Belfast City Hall were defeated in a vote on Monday night.

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61 - 80 of 269 Comments Last updated Dec 2, 2012

Since: Nov 10

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#71
Nov 19, 2012
 
mick rock wrote:
<quoted text>I am not telling them what they should be,i am telling them if they dont like the democratic society that they are living in,go elsewhere preferably quietly thank you !
You did say ''FOR ALL THOSE WHO DONT WANT TO BE BRITISH''

You do know people can live in the UK and not be British?

You really need to get out of NI more often.....

I don't get why anyone would be against the democratic society. Especially a democratic society that will suit the Nationalist Community very well into the future. Whether its a NI within the UK, or a federal part of the Republic.

Say if the people of NI voted to join the Republic someday. Would you accept it?

Because some folks on here have made quite a lot of threats about that. Even when I explained to them that a United Ireland would have a flag, anthem, history books, national events etc that would represent both communities. Even at that, some nutters were threatening to bomb Dublin. Idiots eh?

Since: Nov 10

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#72
Nov 19, 2012
 
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't pretend to be an expert, but I know enough about Irish history, I think, to form an opinion. Like many English, I have some Irish ancestry incidently.
But I still cannot understand the sectarism that prevails in Ulster. I went there on official business in the late 90s, and it shook me. I was told which taxi companies to use in differents parts of Belfast, which hotel to go to, which pub to patronise, etc... and to always watch what I was saying. I am told much hasn't changed...
Yeah I don't understand it myself like most people in the Republic. There are certain parts I couldn't travel to up there. It could have been so different too which is a shame. Here I'll tell you. This isn't biased or anything its all in the history books.

All we wanted in Ireland throughout the 1800's and early 1900's was a mere Irish Home Rule parliament within the UK. A Home Rule parliament that would have given Catholic and Protestant a greater say over how the island was goverened. THREE Home Rule Bill's were opposed and flushed down the drain by Ulster unionists. The first in 1886, the second in 1893 and the third in 1914. The third bill of course would have been enacted BEFORE WW1 if it wasn't for the Ulster Protestants.

The Irish Parliamentary Party (IPP) were the ones pushing for Home Rule. They were a peaceful democratic party who were opposed to violence, and opposed to fully leaving the UK. Protestants were also members of the party. They were a political giant on this island, and had a lot of power in Westminster. The Liberal Party needed the IPP's support in parliament for budgets etc, and as reward for that the Third Home Rule bill was introduced. A political deal was done between the IPP and the Liberal's.

All peaceful, all democratic, all poltical. No guns involved, no violence involved. Now in Ulster the Protestants were quite alarmed at the possibility of the Third Home Rule bill being passed. The Ulster Protestants set up the UVF, a militia that threatened violence and war IF Home Rule was passed. The UVF and the clowns that signed the covenant of 1912 spat on the legitimacy of the British Parliament, the British Government, and the IPP. They managed to block Home Rule by using these bully boy tactics. Not only that, the UVF bought arms from Imperial Germany in 1914, not too long before WW1 broke out.

The Ulster Protestants of this time carried out a huge act of treachery. Threatening violence and war if the political will of the majority on this island and the British Parliament for Home Rule to be passed was listened to. By halting the Third Home Rule bill the Ulster Protestants pretty much destroyed the IPP, and destroyed any chance of a peaceful poltical solution being found.

The Irish Republicans before 1916 were a micro-movement. No one voted for them. The people on this island much preferred the IPP's peaceful approach to the Irish Republican approach and this was rpoven at the ballot box. But the IPP were made to look weak by the Ulster Protestants and their threats of violence and terror.

So the 1916 Rising happened, and that was the last straw. The majority of people in Ireland then wanted to fully break the link with the UK. This wouldn't have been the case if the Ulster Prods hadn't blocked the Home Rule bill.

Would the 1916 Rising have happened had the Home Rule Bill been passed prior to WW1? NO

Would militant Irish Republicanism ever have become a national movement had the Home Rule bill been passed? NO

Would partition have happened if the Home Rule bill had been passed? NO

Would the whole of Ireland still be in the UK, or at least the Commonwealth today had the Home Rule bill been passed? There's a very good chance we would've been.
mick rock

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#73
Nov 19, 2012
 
Dubbadub wrote:
<quoted text>
You did say ''FOR ALL THOSE WHO DONT WANT TO BE BRITISH''
You do know people can live in the UK and not be British?
You really need to get out of NI more often.....
I don't get why anyone would be against the democratic society. Especially a democratic society that will suit the Nationalist Community very well into the future. Whether its a NI within the UK, or a federal part of the Republic.
Say if the people of NI voted to join the Republic someday. Would you accept it?
Because some folks on here have made quite a lot of threats about that. Even when I explained to them that a United Ireland would have a flag, anthem, history books, national events etc that would represent both communities. Even at that, some nutters were threatening to bomb Dublin. Idiots eh?
Thats right "if you dont want to be British",i am not telling them to be British.As for all this sharing you are talking about,I think your points shatter into tiny pieces once you read the sinn fein oath,these bastards are sharing with no one unless you agree with them to the letter and are of the right religion !
mick rock

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#74
Nov 19, 2012
 
Dubbadub wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah I don't understand it myself like most people in the Republic. There are certain parts I couldn't travel to up there. It could have been so different too which is a shame. Here I'll tell you. This isn't biased or anything its all in the history books.
All we wanted in Ireland throughout the 1800's and early 1900's was a mere Irish Home Rule parliament within the UK. A Home Rule parliament that would have given Catholic and Protestant a greater say over how the island was goverened. THREE Home Rule Bill's were opposed and flushed down the drain by Ulster unionists. The first in 1886, the second in 1893 and the third in 1914. The third bill of course would have been enacted BEFORE WW1 if it wasn't for the Ulster Protestants.
The Irish Parliamentary Party (IPP) were the ones pushing for Home Rule. They were a peaceful democratic party who were opposed to violence, and opposed to fully leaving the UK. Protestants were also members of the party. They were a political giant on this island, and had a lot of power in Westminster. The Liberal Party needed the IPP's support in parliament for budgets etc, and as reward for that the Third Home Rule bill was introduced. A political deal was done between the IPP and the Liberal's.
All peaceful, all democratic, all poltical. No guns involved, no violence involved. Now in Ulster the Protestants were quite alarmed at the possibility of the Third Home Rule bill being passed. The Ulster Protestants set up the UVF, a militia that threatened violence and war IF Home Rule was passed. The UVF and the clowns that signed the covenant of 1912 spat on the legitimacy of the British Parliament, the British Government, and the IPP. They managed to block Home Rule by using these bully boy tactics. Not only that, the UVF bought arms from Imperial Germany in 1914, not too long before WW1 broke out.
The Ulster Protestants of this time carried out a huge act of treachery. Threatening violence and war if the political will of the majority on this island and the British Parliament for Home Rule to be passed was listened to. By halting the Third Home Rule bill the Ulster Protestants pretty much destroyed the IPP, and destroyed any chance of a peaceful poltical solution being found.
The Irish Republicans before 1916 were a micro-movement. No one voted for them. The people on this island much preferred the IPP's peaceful approach to the Irish Republican approach and this was rpoven at the ballot box. But the IPP were made to look weak by the Ulster Protestants and their threats of violence and terror.
So the 1916 Rising happened, and that was the last straw. The majority of people in Ireland then wanted to fully break the link with the UK. This wouldn't have been the case if the Ulster Prods hadn't blocked the Home Rule bill.
Would the 1916 Rising have happened had the Home Rule Bill been passed prior to WW1? NO
Would militant Irish Republicanism ever have become a national movement had the Home Rule bill been passed? NO
Would partition have happened if the Home Rule bill had been passed? NO
Would the whole of Ireland still be in the UK, or at least the Commonwealth today had the Home Rule bill been passed? There's a very good chance we would've been.
"This isnt biased or anything"do me a favour and one other thing whats with the flag are you getting confused with the threads ? or is that just to be provocative

Since: Nov 10

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#75
Nov 19, 2012
 
mick rock wrote:
<quoted text>Thats right "if you dont want to be British",i am not telling them to be British.As for all this sharing you are talking about,I think your points shatter into tiny pieces once you read the sinn fein oath,these bastards are sharing with no one unless you agree with them to the letter and are of the right religion !
Well if thats what they want it wouldn't work.

I'd think of it as a new country, new flag, anthem, outlook on history, celebration of both cultures etc.

New start for everyone. No triumphalism from anyone as everyone would be giving up something in order to make a fresh new start.

I think it would be a fine country.

A new country like this, an independent republic within the Commonwealth, where dual citizenship etc is allowed. Actually would be really good for all......

Since: Nov 10

Dublin

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#76
Nov 19, 2012
 

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mick rock wrote:
<quoted text>"This isnt biased or anything"do me a favour and one other thing whats with the flag are you getting confused with the threads ? or is that just to be provocative
Man, the Ulster Protestants did everything they could to stop an Irish Home Rule Parliment within the UK. An All-Ireland Home Rule Parliament where Catholics and Protestants would have served IRELAND WITHIN THE UK.

No one even took Irish Republicanism seriously before 1916. Irish Republicanism had no public support. All the majority of Irish people wanted was Home Rule Parliament within the UK. Which is why they voted for the IPP who supported this aim.

And guess what, the 1916 Rising wouldn't have even happened had the Home Rule Parliament been implimented, which it would have been had you all not stopped it with violent threats from the UVF.

You should have worked with us back then took our hand of friendship when we offered it. The British Government supported it, the House of Commons supported it, the majority of Irish people supported it. Irish self governance within the UK. The UVF went against all of this.....

The Ulster Protestants scuppered Irish Home Rule three times over the space of 40 years. Decades and decades of peaceful parliamentary politics to secure an Irish Home Rule Parliament within the UK, only for it to be scuppered by UVF threats.

Silly move. Also it isn't biased. Its historical fact. Check it out anytime....
rio

Bromley, UK

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#77
Nov 19, 2012
 
Dubbadub wrote:
<quoted text>
Well if thats what they want it wouldn't work.
I'd think of it as a new country, new flag, anthem, outlook on history, celebration of both cultures etc.
New start for everyone. No triumphalism from anyone as everyone would be giving up something in order to make a fresh new start.
I think it would be a fine country.
A new country like this, an independent republic within the Commonwealth, where dual citizenship etc is allowed. Actually would be really good for all......
Both sides would have to shut up the extremists in their ranks for this to be possible.
There are far too many sectarian individuals, mostly in Ulster.
rio

Bromley, UK

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#78
Nov 19, 2012
 
Dubbadub wrote:
<quoted text>
The Ulster Protestants scuppered Irish Home Rule three times over the space of 40 years. Decades and decades of peaceful parliamentary politics to secure an Irish Home Rule Parliament within the UK, only for it to be scuppered by UVF threats.
These Protestant settlers had enjoyed many priviledges for centuries, and weren't willing to give them up, understandably, one would say.
They were mostly landlords, acting like the nobility in Ireland.
It's no surprise they resisted Home Rule; it was a blackmail.

But what was wicked, from the British government, was to partition Ireland and amputate it from the 6 counties, because there was no Home Rule majority there.

We are still living with the aftermath of that decision now.
mick rock

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#79
Nov 19, 2012
 
Dubbadub wrote:
<quoted text>
Man, the Ulster Protestants did everything they could to stop an Irish Home Rule Parliment within the UK. An All-Ireland Home Rule Parliament where Catholics and Protestants would have served IRELAND WITHIN THE UK.
No one even took Irish Republicanism seriously before 1916. Irish Republicanism had no public support. All the majority of Irish people wanted was Home Rule Parliament within the UK. Which is why they voted for the IPP who supported this aim.
And guess what, the 1916 Rising wouldn't have even happened had the Home Rule Parliament been implimented, which it would have been had you all not stopped it with violent threats from the UVF.
You should have worked with us back then took our hand of friendship when we offered it. The British Government supported it, the House of Commons supported it, the majority of Irish people supported it. Irish self governance within the UK. The UVF went against all of this.....
The Ulster Protestants scuppered Irish Home Rule three times over the space of 40 years. Decades and decades of peaceful parliamentary politics to secure an Irish Home Rule Parliament within the UK, only for it to be scuppered by UVF threats.
Silly move. Also it isn't biased. Its historical fact. Check it out anytime....
I am not going into a long winded explanation as i have been through this so many times but have you ever asked yourself why they scuppered home rule as you put it ? and for the record i do not need to check out any history
mick rock

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#80
Nov 19, 2012
 
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
Both sides would have to shut up the extremists in their ranks for this to be possible.
There are far too many sectarian individuals, mostly in Ulster.
mostly in ulster and mostly republican/catholic
rio

Bromley, UK

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#81
Nov 19, 2012
 
mick rock wrote:
<quoted text>

have you ever asked yourself why they scuppered home rule as you put it ?
Why did they?

Loss of power?

Loss of prestige?
mick rock

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#82
Nov 19, 2012
 

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rio wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did they?
Loss of power?
Loss of prestige?
No matter then or now there is no room for ulster protestants in a irish republic/united ireland.There is only room for one religion and this dictates all the rules and regulations and the funny thing is they brake every rule in the book.
rio

Bromley, UK

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#83
Nov 19, 2012
 
mick rock wrote:
<quoted text>mostly in ulster and mostly republican/catholic
I don't think so.

Some protestants like Paisley and his followers were particularly sectarian in my book. Presbyterians are notoriously intolerant.
What about the Orange Order? Is that not sectarian?

To me, the extremists are on BOTH sides in Northern Ireland.
rio

Bromley, UK

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#84
Nov 19, 2012
 
mick rock wrote:
<quoted text>No matter then or now there is no room for ulster protestants in a irish republic/united ireland.There is only room for one religion and this dictates all the rules and regulations and the funny thing is they brake every rule in the book.
I don't agree at all. I have met protestants living in Eire, and they don't seem to suffer from the Catholic majority in the republic. Why couldn't it be the same in the whole of Ireland.
Why is it assumed that a majority always want to crush the minority, and a minority resent the majority. It doesn't happen on the mainland,where several religions cohabit, so why does it exist in Ireland?
mick rock

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#85
Nov 19, 2012
 
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think so.
Some protestants like Paisley and his followers were particularly sectarian in my book. Presbyterians are notoriously intolerant.
What about the Orange Order? Is that not sectarian?
To me, the extremists are on BOTH sides in Northern Ireland.
Well we differ on some of your points but why would the unionist population let itself get swallowed up in a united ireland that tolerates no one apart fron irish catholics.there would be a million promises but thats just a rouse.As i pointed out before read the sinn fein oath,that is the way i see the irish republic aswell as some in the north and they will never change,most will never go to church but thus underlying bitterness will never go away because thats what they are still preaching in thier schools,clubs,political meetings,churches to those who attend and anywhere else they get away with it.
rio

Bromley, UK

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#86
Nov 19, 2012
 

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mick rock wrote:
<quoted text>Well we differ on some of your points but why would the unionist population let itself get swallowed up in a united ireland that tolerates no one apart fron irish catholics.there would be a million promises but thats just a rouse.As i pointed out before read the sinn fein oath,that is the way i see the irish republic aswell as some in the north and they will never change,most will never go to church but thus underlying bitterness will never go away because thats what they are still preaching in thier schools,clubs,political meetings,churches to those who attend and anywhere else they get away with it.
Sinn Fein isn't a force in the republic anymore, so I wouldn't take their oath very seriously as a template for a united Ireland in future.
Of course people change! That's how foes bury the hatchet; that's how intelligent people forget their difference and accept to compromise. Most of the time all it takes is for the protagonists to disappear and their survivors to feel released from past loyalties to start a dialogue.
mick rock

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#87
Nov 19, 2012
 

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sinn fein is the second biggest party in irish republican politics so i take thier oath very seriously and these people will never change and neither will thier oath,so is ulster meant to trust this and i believe i am intelligent enough to understand there is no compromise with this mob of murderers with smiles of crocodiles who will eventually get into
power in the south and make that part of the island suffer aswell.
jason norris

Liverpool, UK

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#88
Nov 20, 2012
 

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mick rock wrote:
sinn fein is the second biggest party in irish republican politics so i take thier oath very seriously and these people will never change and neither will thier oath,so is ulster meant to trust this and i believe i am intelligent enough to understand there is no compromise with this mob of murderers with smiles of crocodiles who will eventually get into
power in the south and make that part of the island suffer aswell.
100% correct.

Since: Nov 10

Dublin

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#89
Nov 20, 2012
 
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
Both sides would have to shut up the extremists in their ranks for this to be possible.
There are far too many sectarian individuals, mostly in Ulster.
Yeah I agree.

I don't get their whole fear of the Irish Republic. Some of them obviously haven't been here because it isn't very Catholic at all anymore.

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#90
Nov 20, 2012
 
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
These Protestant settlers had enjoyed many priviledges for centuries, and weren't willing to give them up, understandably, one would say.
They were mostly landlords, acting like the nobility in Ireland.
It's no surprise they resisted Home Rule; it was a blackmail.
But what was wicked, from the British government, was to partition Ireland and amputate it from the 6 counties, because there was no Home Rule majority there.
We are still living with the aftermath of that decision now.
True but at the same time the IPP had many members who were Protestants and were members of the upper classes. In hindsight from their point of view, they shouldn't have rejected Home Rule. It has come back to haunt them in many ways.

Yeah partition too. If Home Rule had have happened we would have had an all Ireland parliament within the UK, where we all could have worked together politically. See whats happening now in NI with regards to peaceful politics between both sides etc? That could have happened 100 years ago if the UVF and other Loyalists hadn't blocked it through threats of violence and war. They went against the democratic decision of the House of Commons. They also went against the British Government and the wishes of the majority of Irish people.

Really bad move, in hindsight.....

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