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Ali T
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this shows that if stereo-typing ,the wrongs of the past as well as disgenuine approaches are put aside we can all sort our differences at a stroke..and time is now.
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Turko
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Do we T/Cs need to start talks, why, why do we need these people, they are nothing but a headache, they are a problem people,
My gut feeling says keep away from these people and keep them away from us, nothing good will become out of it,
It is for the best for the both communities,
no more killings, no argument's friction,
Can you see these people ever giving up from wanting what we have or what we will have,
They will never be content with their share, G/Cs will all ways have eyes on our part of the island, no matter how small,
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Ali T
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Turko wrote: Do we T/Cs need to start talks, why, why do we need these people, they are nothing but a headache, they are a problem people,
My gut feeling says keep away from these people and keep them away from us, nothing good will become out of it,
It is for the best for the both communities,
no more killings, no argument's friction,
Can you see these people ever giving up from wanting what we have or what we will have,
They will never be content with their share, G/Cs will all ways have eyes on our part of the island, no matter how small, i sympathis with yopur views.yet thw rold is a much different place hen it was even 20 years ago.. old values,politics and ideas no longer work..with the ascent of democratic thinking,the states have to yield to the desires of their governed populace..hence the fast changing pace of the world today... We must become one world with the same values,rights and progress of the most advanced nations so that we can fight the real enemy of the human race;i.e;the natural disasters,famine,poverty..we can only do that if we solve our differences,sweep the past aside-having learned from the bad as well as good experiences and create a "one world,one people"politics where everyone irrespective of their religion,ethnicity,culture,col our and creed to be treated according to their merits and not for any other issues...
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Turko
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Ali T wrote: <quoted text>
i sympathis with yopur views.yet thw rold is a much different place hen it was even 20 years ago..
old values,politics and ideas no longer work..with the ascent of democratic thinking,the states have to yield to the desires of their governed populace..hence the fast changing pace of the world today...
We must become one world with the same values,rights and progress of the most advanced nations so that we can fight the real enemy of the human race;i.e;the natural disasters,famine,poverty..we can only do that if we solve our differences,sweep the past aside-having learned from the bad as well as good experiences and create a "one world,one people"politics where everyone irrespective of their religion,ethnicity,culture,col our and creed to be treated according to their merits and not for any other issues... Hi Ali I agree with you post , Your heart is in the right place, and maybe you dont know the people you want to go to bed with , Trust me my friend these people are not what you think they make out to be, they are most certainly cunning two faced Turk haters, You want to start some thing between the two community's, ad soon as 500 years to early, I have the greatest respect for your view on the subject, but if you take advice from some one who knows these peoples mentality you would understand what i mean, I have a son living in Corby, off of occupation rd, are you anywhere near,
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Ali T
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Turko wrote: <quoted text>
Hi Ali
I agree with you post ,
Your heart is in the right place, and maybe you dont know the people you want to go to bed with ,
Trust me my friend these people are not what you think they make out to be, they are most certainly cunning two faced Turk haters,
You want to start some thing between the two community's, ad soon as 500 years to early,
I have the greatest respect for your view on the subject, but if you take advice from some one who knows these peoples mentality you would understand what i mean,
I have a son living in Corby, off of occupation rd, are you anywhere near, Hi Turko.. tks for your post.. i don`t think i can be called naive in terms of dealing with armenians as i was the most ardent supporter of everything that my nation requires and still do..at the same time neither can i be considered uninformed of a typical armenian cunning and their ways of doing things..but... and this is a pretty big one at that..we need to go forward instead of getting stuck in this stereo-typing and we should all take a brave stand as i still believe basically most of the people are decent...so i`m looking for some workable alternatives here instead of carrying out the inevitable hate-mongering... unfortunately i am no where Corby though i sometimes go there on business that i am in;transportation..i`ll try and check him out..what does he do? anyway bro..bring out some ideas to solve the impasse if you can as this certainly is a difficult issue.
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pottingshed
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What do you feel the stumbling block will be?
Withdrawal of Turkish soldiers or property ownership?
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Turko
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Ali T wrote: <quoted text>
Hi Turko..
tks for your post..
i don`t think i can be called naive in terms of dealing with armenians as i was the most ardent supporter of everything that my nation requires and still do..at the same time neither can i be considered uninformed of a typical armenian cunning and their ways of doing things..but...
and this is a pretty big one at that..we need to go forward instead of getting stuck in this stereo-typing and we should all take a brave stand as i still believe basically most of the people are decent...so i`m looking for some workable alternatives here instead of carrying out the inevitable hate-mongering...
unfortunately i am no where Corby though i sometimes go there on business that i am in;transportation..i`ll try and check him out..what does he do?
anyway bro..bring out some ideas to solve the impasse if you can as this certainly is a difficult issue. Hi Ali Armenians are another piece of nasty work, I know what you mean, Greeks are no different to the Armenians, they are strong supporters of each other causes both Turk haters, However there are many decent and modest G/Cs i know , i lived amongst them, they are good people, a dying race, now they are the minority, they are disappearing fast, now we have this new generation of Turk haters being educated from very young age at their schools and churches thinking they are a superior race over T/Cs, and the Turks are the enemy, These new fascist breed has already formed their impression of us T/Cs, you cant talk to these people peace, it is not in their vocabulary, this new generation of jealous and opportunistic people, do not want you and me on the island, these morons think Cyprus is Greek/Cypriot, they think Cyprus belongs to them, No mention of T/C property or lands, as far as they concern we own nothing, How can we sit and talk to these people, I sooner walk away and don't even look behind me, if it means closing the borders, so be it close them, we have no need for a fascist neighbor, my son works for an estate agent in the town centre as a chief negotiator for a very large group,
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Turko
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pottingshed wrote: What do you feel the stumbling block will be?
Withdrawal of Turkish soldiers or property ownership? All that plus, G/C are not looking for power sharing, They know full well if ever there is a peace agreement, there will be a new Partner on the island, and that is a big pill to swallow,
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Tc In London
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pottingshed wrote: What do you feel the stumbling block will be?
Withdrawal of Turkish soldiers or property ownership? here you are another greek instead off finding a level point to talk about all he is concerned with is propery and our protyectors out of there way
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Dander
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Medical science usually washes their hands off elderly patients when they start talking to themselves.
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Ali T
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Turko wrote: <quoted text>
Hi Ali
Armenians are another piece of nasty work, I know what you mean,
Greeks are no different to the Armenians, they are strong supporters of each other causes both Turk haters,
However there are many decent and modest G/Cs i know , i lived amongst them, they are good people, a dying race, now they are the minority, they are disappearing fast,
now we have this new generation of Turk haters
being educated from very young age at their schools and churches thinking they are a superior race over T/Cs, and the Turks are the enemy,
These new fascist breed has already formed their impression of us T/Cs, you cant talk to these people peace, it is not in their vocabulary,
this new generation of jealous and opportunistic people, do not want you and me on the island,
these morons think Cyprus is Greek/Cypriot, they think Cyprus belongs to them,
No mention of T/C property or lands, as far as they concern we own nothing,
How can we sit and talk to these people,
I sooner walk away and don't even look behind me, if it means closing the borders, so be it close them, we have no need for a fascist neighbor,
my son works for an estate agent in the town centre as a chief negotiator for a very large group, I understand all that..neverthless we cannot and should not isolate any country unless their only aim is to destroy us and this sort of well-wishing is always in the agenda with any of ours ..hence we are ,have been ,and will be always stronger than all combined to protect our nation,country and way of life.. although isolationist policy has its positive sides but mainly it is very negative as along with the minority-and i believe they are minority- the punishment also extends to the majority of decent,peace -loving and genuine general populace and isolationism almost always brings about its own system of destruction,self-impsotion of baseless underground culture,twisted version of events,relationships,governing bodies and the such like,so it must be avoided at all costs..this of course doesn`t mean a free for all..this tolerance will also have its own version of justice and punishment if events do not turn out for the better.therefore i have no qualms about where we are and where we need to go and i am sure most of the Greeks and Armenians kow that the by-gones will be by-gones and look to the future with better optimism and co-operation with all of us.After all even hatred has a life of its own but usually when people are treated with rspect,understanding and genuine compassion,this hatred is much shorter than the interest groups lead us to believe. have a good life Bro,and dont be afraid of our future;it`s all good.
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Agamemnon
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Turko wrote: <quoted text>
Hi Ali
Armenians are another piece of nasty work, I know what you mean,
Greeks are no different to the Armenians, they are strong supporters of each other causes both Turk haters,
However there are many decent and modest G/Cs i know , i lived amongst them, they are good people, a dying race, now they are the minority, they are disappearing fast,
now we have this new generation of Turk haters
being educated from very young age at their schools and churches thinking they are a superior race over T/Cs, and the Turks are the enemy,
These new fascist breed has already formed their impression of us T/Cs, you cant talk to these people peace, it is not in their vocabulary,
this new generation of jealous and opportunistic people, do not want you and me on the island,
these morons think Cyprus is Greek/Cypriot, they think Cyprus belongs to them,
No mention of T/C property or lands, as far as they concern we own nothing,
How can we sit and talk to these people,
I sooner walk away and don't even look behind me, if it means closing the borders, so be it close them, we have no need for a fascist neighbor,
my son works for an estate agent in the town centre as a chief negotiator for a very large group, I think you are being unfair. Times have changed. Enosis is dead and quite right too. If Enosis was not dead, the we would have had enosis and taxim by now.I too know many TCs, and we have been friends before the war, during and after. The only difference is we were here in the UK, and did not have fanatics from both sides urged by the superpowers to ensure that cyprus maintained it nato credentials and listening bases. The information is out there TC, and the fact is they played us like patsies. That is not to say that we GCs are without fault. We also have blood on our hands and we must recognise it. All I can say is that the great majority of GCs were victims too. It is a shame. TCs, or at least the one's I know are lovely people, kind hearted and hospitable. Real Cypriots in my view. We should have treated you better.
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East Roman Empire
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Once again Amen, Agamemnon. You are a fair and uniqe man to be on this forum. Agamemnon wrote: <quoted text>
I think you are being unfair. Times have changed. Enosis is dead and quite right too. If Enosis was not dead, the we would have had enosis and taxim by now.I too know many TCs, and we have been friends before the war, during and after. The only difference is we were here in the UK, and did not have fanatics from both sides urged by the superpowers to ensure that cyprus maintained it nato credentials and listening bases. The information is out there TC, and the fact is they played us like patsies.
That is not to say that we GCs are without fault. We also have blood on our hands and we must recognise it. All I can say is that the great majority of GCs were victims too.
It is a shame. TCs, or at least the one's I know are lovely people, kind hearted and hospitable. Real Cypriots in my view. We should have treated you better.
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ozz-
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Turko wrote: <quoted text>
Hi Ali
Armenians are another piece of nasty work, I know what you mean,
Greeks are no different to the Armenians, they are strong supporters of each other causes both Turk haters,
However there are many decent and modest G/Cs i know , i lived amongst them, they are good people, a dying race, now they are the minority, they are disappearing fast,
now we have this new generation of Turk haters
being educated from very young age at their schools and churches thinking they are a superior race over T/Cs, and the Turks are the enemy,
These new fascist breed has already formed their impression of us T/Cs, you cant talk to these people peace, it is not in their vocabulary,
this new generation of jealous and opportunistic people, do not want you and me on the island,
these morons think Cyprus is Greek/Cypriot, they think Cyprus belongs to them,
No mention of T/C property or lands, as far as they concern we own nothing,
How can we sit and talk to these people,
I sooner walk away and don't even look behind me, if it means closing the borders, so be it close them, we have no need for a fascist neighbor,
my son works for an estate agent in the town centre as a chief negotiator for a very large group, Turko my friend....GCs are a dying monority? Are you sure you are not mixed up? I thought you may be concered that the TCs are the dying monority...mainland Turks now probably outnumber the true TC's....
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ozz-
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Agamemnon wrote: <quoted text>
I think you are being unfair. Times have changed. Enosis is dead and quite right too. If Enosis was not dead, the we would have had enosis and taxim by now.I too know many TCs, and we have been friends before the war, during and after. The only difference is we were here in the UK, and did not have fanatics from both sides urged by the superpowers to ensure that cyprus maintained it nato credentials and listening bases. The information is out there TC, and the fact is they played us like patsies.
That is not to say that we GCs are without fault. We also have blood on our hands and we must recognise it. All I can say is that the great majority of GCs were victims too.
It is a shame. TCs, or at least the one's I know are lovely people, kind hearted and hospitable. Real Cypriots in my view. We should have treated you better. Agamemnon....i agree with you totally...we should forget and get on as Cypriots...not TCs or GCs but as CYPRIOTS! Its about time...i lived through the horror of the invasion, became a refugee, migrated to Australia, raised a family...and the island is still divided because we live in the past and let others determine our future. If we are true Cyrpiots, lets start thinking and work out a way to live peacefully together without outside influence. Everyone non Cypriot should get the hell out!!!
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Agamemnon
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ozz- wrote: <quoted text> Agamemnon....i agree with you totally...we should forget and get on as Cypriots...not TCs or GCs but as CYPRIOTS! Its about time...i lived through the horror of the invasion, became a refugee, migrated to Australia, raised a family...and the island is still divided because we live in the past and let others determine our future. If we are true Cyrpiots, lets start thinking and work out a way to live peacefully together without outside influence. Everyone non Cypriot should get the hell out!!! Hello Ozz, My family also, although to be fair my family was in the UK long before the war. It was economic hardship that brought my father in the UK. You see under British rule, GC and TC farmers were not permitted to sell their products on the open market. My mother still remembers how produce from our village was dumped so that the english would not have it at next to nothing. These are the real stories, the one's never fully told. The usual myth propagated is that of turkish cypriot greek cypriot emnity as though it was part of our national characteristic. Nothing of the sort. GCs and TCs suffered and even rebelled together under the sultans and the the catholics. We should have included the TCs in a struggle for independence. We ALL deserved that. After all being greek or turkish should not need to be expressed as a union with "mother" countries, but rather we should have used it to create a bicultural paradise. Were we that incapable to do this? What meaning of enosis anyway in todays global world and the eu. A waste, a waste of an opportunity and many lives. Good luck to you Ozz, always a pleasure to talk with a fellow expat. Nase Kala file mou.
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Agamemnon
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East Roman Empire wrote: Once again Amen, Agamemnon. You are a fair and uniqe man to be on this forum.
<quoted text> Hello ERE. Hope you are keeping well. Terrible news about the bombings yesterday in Istanbul. Not good at all. Thank you for your kind words.
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Attila Han
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Thanks Agamemnon, I am doing well. Hope the same for you. I changed my name because not being disrespectful to you. I actualy recognize it as Byzantium as a great Greek Empire in the history. One question for you. I realy did not know that there is this much hate against Turks in Greece. Is this true or just ( almost ) everyone on these forums are extremist? If a Greek in Turkey knocks my door or stops me at the street here in Turkey and requests help, I never give him or her up till he/she feels safe. I do not feel anything bad against Greek. I value character more than nationality, religion or color. Do you belive that one day 2 countries can be like one country? At least when their team lost, could they support the others instead of far away teams? My regards to your valuable father. Agamemnon wrote: <quoted text>
Hello ERE. Hope you are keeping well.
Terrible news about the bombings yesterday in Istanbul.
Not good at all.
Thank you for your kind words.
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ozz-
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Agamemnon wrote: <quoted text>
Hello Ozz,
My family also, although to be fair my family was in the UK long before the war. It was economic hardship that brought my father in the UK. You see under British rule, GC and TC farmers were not permitted to sell their products on the open market. My mother still remembers how produce from our village was dumped so that the english would not have it at next to nothing.
These are the real stories, the one's never fully told. The usual myth propagated is that of turkish cypriot greek cypriot emnity as though it was part of our national characteristic. Nothing of the sort. GCs and TCs suffered and even rebelled together under the sultans and the the catholics. We should have included the TCs in a struggle for independence. We ALL deserved that. After all being greek or turkish should not need to be expressed as a union with "mother" countries, but rather we should have used it to create a bicultural paradise. Were we that incapable to do this? What meaning of enosis anyway in todays global world and the eu.
A waste, a waste of an opportunity and many lives.
Good luck to you Ozz, always a pleasure to talk with a fellow expat.
Nase Kala file mou. yia sou file.nice to talk to you too. I think it is fair to say that both sides made mistakes...but mostly through the influence of the mainland powers..and of course the british. If you read these forums, it is all about accusations and deep rooted hatred. As long as this mentality exists, we cannot progress. Both sides have to admit that all that happened is due to our mistakes (meaning GCs and TCs). It is time to learn from those mistakes. Time to think as Cypriots and not as TCs or GCs...All we managed to do is divide our land and go backwards. 34 years after the invasion we are still in the same hole! We have to learn to coexist together. I can only hope....nase kai esy kala...
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Agamemnon
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Attila Han wrote: Thanks Agamemnon, I am doing well. Hope the same for you. I changed my name because not being disrespectful to you. I actualy recognize it as Byzantium as a great Greek Empire in the history.
One question for you. I realy did not know that there is this much hate against Turks in Greece. Is this true or just ( almost ) everyone on these forums are extremist? If a Greek in Turkey knocks my door or stops me at the street here in Turkey and requests help, I never give him or her up till he/she feels safe. I do not feel anything bad against Greek. I value character more than nationality, religion or color.
Do you belive that one day 2 countries can be like one country? At least when their team lost, could they support the others instead of far away teams?
My regards to your valuable father.
<quoted text> Attila the Hun, I would not judge a whole nation by what goes on at this forum. Greeks are not extreme and do not de facto hate turks any more tham saying that all the Turks hate the greeks. It would be a false conclusion to reach. Many many Turks drive to Turkey from germany through greece, and I have never heard of any trouble. We ALL want peace and stability within and outside our borders. I ofetn imagine how dynamic both coutries would be together if we managed to solve all the issues that seperate us. Greece would be a good partner for Turkey (even as a small country) and vise versa. Above all it would mean a secure and tension free aegean border, cooperation on tourism, technology... the possibilities are endless. Maybe it would be even possible to negate the influences from outside powers who use us as a stick to batter each other as their interests see fit. I do not say that solving our problems is going to be easy, but they are political and not part of our national genetics. Turkey above all needs stability and good relations with greece will help both countries. We have many Turkish people in the UK, and it is not unusual to see greek and turk in greek or turkish restaurants together. We do need brave and enlightened leadership though.
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