Greek, Russian Orthodox patriarchs le...

Greek, Russian Orthodox patriarchs lead prayers together in Tur...

There are 24 comments on the The Morning Call story from Jul 5, 2009, titled Greek, Russian Orthodox patriarchs lead prayers together in Tur.... In it, The Morning Call reports that:

Newly elected Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill has led Sunday prayers with Istanbul Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I in a show of unity.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Morning Call.

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Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#1 Jul 5, 2009
It's important to remember that while they may wrangle over administrative issues, that these two Churches - together with the Churches of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem, have been in full Communion ( and will remain such ) since the Pentecost.

The Church of Rome separated itself from the other four original Churches, yet these remaining four retain the same Faith and Doctrines.

Since: May 08

Belle Mead, NJ

#2 Jul 5, 2009
It is also important to note that when it comes to the situation in Ukraine, what group is looking at breaking from the Russian Orthodox Church. It is a group who is not part of the Russian Orthodox Church nor any Orthodox Church. Nor is it part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the USA from which it broke when they went within the Patriarch of Constantinople which cleanly brought them back into the Orthodox Church.

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#3 Jul 5, 2009
John from NJ wrote:
It is also important to note that when it comes to the situation in Ukraine, what group is looking at breaking from the Russian Orthodox Church. It is a group who is not part of the Russian Orthodox Church nor any Orthodox Church. Nor is it part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the USA from which it broke when they went within the Patriarch of Constantinople which cleanly brought them back into the Orthodox Church.

Sorry John, but I have no idea what you're talking about.

The Patriarchate in Constantinople is the "First Among Equals". It is the Mother Church for all Orthodox Christians.

The other Churches are self-governing (autocephalous). These include the OCA, the Antiochian Orthododox Church in America, and others.

The formation of these autocephalous Churches were not "schisms", but a branching out.
Akritas

London, UK

#4 Jul 5, 2009
Nuke the Turks first, Unity second.

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#5 Jul 5, 2009
Akritas wrote:
Nuke the Turks first, Unity second.


SimfonO !!!

Since: May 08

Belle Mead, NJ

#6 Jul 6, 2009
Dennis Mac wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry John, but I have no idea what you're talking about.
The Patriarchate in Constantinople is the "First Among Equals". It is the Mother Church for all Orthodox Christians.
The other Churches are self-governing (autocephalous). These include the OCA, the Antiochian Orthododox Church in America, and others.
The formation of these autocephalous Churches were not "schisms", but a branching out.
Allow me to explain. It has to do with the situation in Ukraine. There is a group there with an ex-KGB agent who was defrocked by the Church running around now as the "patriarch of kiev". He and his group are in communion with no one. Some of those who are with him used to be with the Ukrainian Church that is headquartered in Bound Brook, NJ. They too were not "canonical" but became so when they went under the Patriarch of Constantinople. Not all were happy and some broke away from the Bound Brook church both here in the US and in the Ukraine which maintained their status as being outside of the Church.

It is the non-canonical group headed by a deposed cleric that has tried to use the issues between Moscow and Constantinople to their advantage. They are the ones agitating for a separate Ukrainian Church headed by that same deposed cleric, in opposition to the existing Ukrainian Orthodox Church which is within the Russian Orthodox Church.

The news story talked as if it were the canonical church in Ukraine that was looking to be independent, it isn't. The only "group", as one can't call them a church, calling for that is the one outside of the Church.

I hope that explains what I was talking about.

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#7 Jul 6, 2009
John from NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Allow me to explain. It has to do with the situation in Ukraine. There is a group there with an ex-KGB agent who was defrocked by the Church running around now as the "patriarch of kiev". He and his group are in communion with no one. Some of those who are with him used to be with the Ukrainian Church that is headquartered in Bound Brook, NJ. They too were not "canonical" but became so when they went under the Patriarch of Constantinople. Not all were happy and some broke away from the Bound Brook church both here in the US and in the Ukraine which maintained their status as being outside of the Church.
It is the non-canonical group headed by a deposed cleric that has tried to use the issues between Moscow and Constantinople to their advantage. They are the ones agitating for a separate Ukrainian Church headed by that same deposed cleric, in opposition to the existing Ukrainian Orthodox Church which is within the Russian Orthodox Church.
The news story talked as if it were the canonical church in Ukraine that was looking to be independent, it isn't. The only "group", as one can't call them a church, calling for that is the one outside of the Church.
I hope that explains what I was talking about.

It does. Thank You!

It's sad that political upheaval takes a toll on the Church.

I remember seeing a Serbian Orthodox Priest riding atop a armored tank, Blessing the troops as they prepared to wipe-out a small village.

As he passed me, I turned away.

I suppose as long as a Priest is properly Ordained, following Apostolic Succession, he may celebrate Liturgies and perform the Sacraments.

If this group to which you refer has been accepted by the Patriarchate, they should be in full Communion with all other Orthodox Churches.

As it is our mandate to forgive, and as I often have trouble doing so, I really can't say whether or not I'd feel comfortable visiting that Church.

Luckily for us, there are Russian, Ukrainian, Antiochian, and Greek Churches in our area which are free of these issues, and I am also happy that we aren't drawn into "parishes" like the RCs.

“sea and sun”

Since: Dec 08

Izmir, Turkey

#8 Jul 6, 2009
Akritas wrote:
Nuke the Turks first, Unity second.
if the turks had never been in the area, you'd be adorating the 10-yr-old-boy-rapists based in vatican... lol. you'd be molested by your local catholic priest...
LONG LIVE ORTODOKSY -out of turkey of course
Filip the II Reincarnated

Athens, Greece

#9 Jul 6, 2009
Nuke the Turks first, Unity second.

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#10 Jul 6, 2009
turkish boy wrote:
<quoted text>
if the turks had never been in the area, you'd be adorating the 10-yr-old-boy-rapists based in vatican... lol. you'd be molested by your local catholic priest...
LONG LIVE ORTODOKSY -out of turkey of course

The Orthodox Patriarchate will remain in Turkey.

One day, Aghia Sophia will be a Church once again.
nameless

Bakirkoy, Turkey

#11 Jul 6, 2009
Dennis Mac wrote:
<quoted text>
The Orthodox Patriarchate will remain in Turkey.
One day, Aghia Sophia will be a Church once again.
One day Ottoman the second will born and greece will be ottoman's province again

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#12 Jul 6, 2009
nameless wrote:
<quoted text>
One day Ottoman the second will born and greece will be ottoman's province again

One day all of Turkey will be Kurdistan.
nameless

Istanbul, Turkey

#13 Jul 6, 2009
Dennis Mac wrote:
<quoted text>
One day all of Turkey will be Kurdistan.
one day but never comes but greece will divide up as south macedonia,south albania,western thrace,independent islands etc etc

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#14 Jul 6, 2009
nameless wrote:
<quoted text>
one day but never comes but greece will divide up as south macedonia,south albania,western thrace,independent islands etc etc

Ah, Zik Tir !

:-)
nameless

Istanbul, Turkey

#15 Jul 6, 2009
Dennis Mac wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, Zik Tir !
:-)
siktir git budala
Akritas

London, UK

#16 Jul 6, 2009
BLESSED ARE THE GREEKS...WHOSE LANGUAGE SPREAD THE WORD OF THE ONE TRUE CHRISTIAN GOD!

Historic Bible pages put online

There are new opportunities for scholars, experts say
About 800 pages of the earliest surviving Christian Bible have been recovered and put on the internet.
Visitors to the website www.codexsinaiticus.org can now see images of more than half the 1,600-year-old Codex Sinaiticus manuscript.
Fragments of the 4th Century document - written in Greek on parchment leaves - have been worked on by institutions in the UK, Germany, Egypt and Russia.
Experts say it is "a window into the development of early Christianity".
Preservation secrets
Dr Scot McKendrick, head of Western manuscripts at the British Library, said the wide availability of the document presented many research opportunities.
This 1,600-year-old manuscript offers a window into the development of early Christianity

Dr Scot McKendrick
British Library

What's missing from the Codex Sinaiticus?
"The Codex Sinaiticus is one of the world's greatest written treasures," he said.
"This 1,600-year-old manuscript offers a window into the development of early Christianity and first-hand evidence of how the text of the Bible was transmitted from generation to generation.
"The availability of the virtual manuscript for study by scholars around the world creates opportunities for collaborative research that would not have been possible just a few years ago."
The original version contained about 1,460 pages - each measuring 40cm by 35cm, he added.
FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME

More from Today programme
The British Library is marking the online launch of the manuscript with an exhibition - which includes a range of historic items and artefacts linked to the document.
For 1,500 years, the Codex Sinaiticus lay undisturbed in a Sinai monastery until it was found in 1844 and split between Egypt, Russia, Germany and Britain.
It is thought to have survived because the desert air was ideal for preservation and because the monastery, on a Christian island in a Muslim sea, remained untouched, its walls unconquered.
The institutions' painstaking work can now be seen at www.codexsinaiticus.org .

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#17 Jul 6, 2009
nameless wrote:
<quoted text>
siktir git budala

LOL !!!

Since: May 08

Belle Mead, NJ

#18 Jul 6, 2009
Dennis Mac wrote:
<quoted text>
It does. Thank You!
It's sad that political upheaval takes a toll on the Church.
I remember seeing a Serbian Orthodox Priest riding atop a armored tank, Blessing the troops as they prepared to wipe-out a small village.
As he passed me, I turned away.
I suppose as long as a Priest is properly Ordained, following Apostolic Succession, he may celebrate Liturgies and perform the Sacraments.
If this group to which you refer has been accepted by the Patriarchate, they should be in full Communion with all other Orthodox Churches.
As it is our mandate to forgive, and as I often have trouble doing so, I really can't say whether or not I'd feel comfortable visiting that Church.
Luckily for us, there are Russian, Ukrainian, Antiochian, and Greek Churches in our area which are free of these issues, and I am also happy that we aren't drawn into "parishes" like the RCs.
The group in Ukraine headed by the deposed Metropolitan currently pretending to be the Patriarch of Kiev tried to get Constantinople to accept him but thankfully Bartholomew said no. What he is in reality is a layman pretending to be a clergyman. He gets away with it because of some nationalistic ideas that some folks there have.

I don't have a problem with a priest blessing the troops or even a tank. We don't have the idea of a "just war" as one finds in western theology so some of their ideas are not ours. If they had to take out that village to protect their families it is one thing. To take out a village just for "fun" is something else. Many Icons were carried into battle, so there always has been some role, for lack of a better word, of religion and conflicts.

As for our ability to pick where to go compared to the way Latins are told where to go based on where they live, years back it wasn't that way. The Pole's had their church, the Irish their church, the Italians their church and then there were some non-ethnic parishes. When they stopped that practice and required everyone to go to the closest church it actually helped them since there was not the ethnic battles that went on. I look forward to the day when we have one bishop in a city and all of the churches are under him and you go to the closest church or where you like best the food or music. I would like to get rid of all the ethnic designations and just make them all simply Orthodox parishes.

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#19 Jul 6, 2009
John from NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
The group in Ukraine headed by the deposed Metropolitan currently pretending to be the Patriarch of Kiev tried to get Constantinople to accept him but thankfully Bartholomew said no. What he is in reality is a layman pretending to be a clergyman. He gets away with it because of some nationalistic ideas that some folks there have.
I don't have a problem with a priest blessing the troops or even a tank. We don't have the idea of a "just war" as one finds in western theology so some of their ideas are not ours. If they had to take out that village to protect their families it is one thing. To take out a village just for "fun" is something else. Many Icons were carried into battle, so there always has been some role, for lack of a better word, of religion and conflicts.
As for our ability to pick where to go compared to the way Latins are told where to go based on where they live, years back it wasn't that way. The Pole's had their church, the Irish their church, the Italians their church and then there were some non-ethnic parishes. When they stopped that practice and required everyone to go to the closest church it actually helped them since there was not the ethnic battles that went on. I look forward to the day when we have one bishop in a city and all of the churches are under him and you go to the closest church or where you like best the food or music. I would like to get rid of all the ethnic designations and just make them all simply Orthodox parishes.

Thank God our Patriarch Bartholomew saw through this "Metropolitan"! So in effect, his Church is not in Communion with the Holy Orthodox Church. That's something that the parishioners will have to reconcile for themselves (or maybe not).

As for a united Orthodox Church anywhere, I'm not going to hold my breath. I don't think we'll see it in our lifetime.

But that, to me, is part of the beauty of the Orthodox Faith. You or I can attend a Russian, or Coptic, or Ethiopian Orthodox Liturgy, and receive Holy Communion.

The ethnic diversity is tremendous, and the true miracle is that we are all share a common Dogma.

I was raised in the Greek Orthodox Church, and have belonged to, and served in Russian (OCA), and Antiochian Churches. I served in their Sanctuaries, and was tonsured a Reader. I have served on Parish Councils and read Epistles in all.

There is nothing preventing any faithful Orthodox Christian from belonging to several Parishes.

They also each have their own "Festivals" each year, and it's amazing to see Clergy from all the other "ethnic" Churches attending.

Also, on the "Sunday of Orthodoxy", all local Clergy co-celebrate, and it's always quite beautiful.

But that's the beauty of the Orthodox Faith: Despite ethnic differences, we share the same beliefs, Sacraments, traditions, and Dogma.
crow

Istanbul, Turkey

#20 Jul 6, 2009
Dennis Mac wrote:
<quoted text>
One day all of Turkey will be Kurdistan.
one day all turks f!ck ur mother

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