Airliner crashes at San Francisco airport, forcing passengers to jump from escape slides

Jul 6, 2013 Full story: Nanaimo Daily News 100

An Asiana Airlines flight from Seoul, South Korea, crashed while landing at San Francisco International Airport on Saturday, forcing passengers to jump down the emergency inflatable slides to safety.

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Alto

Chandler, AZ

#2 Jul 7, 2013
I thought the same thing. Why are we surprised? It's an Asian airline.

Since: Jul 13

New Salisbury, IN

#3 Jul 7, 2013
I often heard, with the flight time this crew had it seems unlikely that they could have made an error in flight path........ I would discount that.

I flew for Kimball International. I have about 8,000 hours and the chief pilot and others had far more. I learned early on to keep my mouth shut as there was a code within the group; kind of like a group of click-ish school girls.

Often pilots who are set in their ways quit learning and are set in their faults as well. These pilots often championed things which make them look wise and avoided things which they simply did not grasp. Often years of assumptions ingrained faults in their routines and their ego's blocked any criticism.

Small things I have no trouble sweeping under the rug but one issue arose I could not keep quit about. Many of the pilots were flying below glide slope approaches. I know why. The thinking is they can target the end of the runway and make a shorter landing.

The problem is the opposite is true. A shallow approach drags out the flair longer creating a longer landing. The solution for people in this frame of mind is to come in lower next time.

I brought it up in a meeting when I could no longer be quit. To my surprise I was told "We are Falcon pilots, you are a King Air pilot and you don't know what you are talking about!". Latter the chief pilot pulled me aside and told me I did not know what I was talking about and need to keep my mouth shut.

Well here are the problems with a low and slow approach. First, a steeper approach requires more flair to arrest the descent. In doing so, more energy is dissipated slowing the airplane much faster creating a much shorter landing.

Second, a low approach creates a dangerous situation for many reasons. First the altitude clearance is not guaranteed which means you could make contact with something in the approach; in this situation, the gear hit the ocean wall knocking off the tail of the airplane. Second, low and slow gives you no cushion should you get behind the power curve. If you do not have enough energy, there may not be time to make correction. Third, as you flair, you get increase ground effect and as I mentioned before, you begin to float making crosswind landings far harder.

Not only was my department upside down on this issue but was championed by my chief pilot. I had asked people a few times in the dark to please bring the airplane back up to glide slope watching the silhouette of trees above us.

On one arrival as I was flying in (no passengers) coming in on glide path on a perfect approach, my chief pilot said "This is a problem!". Blind sided I said, "What is a problem?" He said flying on glide path is just too high for these jets. I said, what if I come in too high? He said you will over shoot. I thought, perfect time to demonstrate.

I brought the plane up for a steeper approach. On touch down it thumped because the speed bled off so fast. At touch down it slowed so fast we were unable to deploy thrust reverses as we were already below minim speed for thrust reverses. The airplane was almost stopped on it's own at 1/2 runway. I thought what a perfect example.

I said nothing. I thought we would have a constructive discussion. Instead as we re-stocked the airplane he began throwing snacks across the room like a child yelling at me. He told me he was a "G&% D&%$# Falcon Pilot" and he did not need me to tell him how to fly. He told me he ORDERED me to and EXPECTED me to fly below glide slope approaches.

Soon after I was let go with no reason given. "It is just better!".

The chief pilot already has a violation on his record and the management not only knows it; they gave him other duties while he served his flight suspension. In the real world charm out weighs intelligence. This is akin to a Felon running a bank! This is but one of many issues.

Since: Jul 13

New Salisbury, IN

#4 Jul 7, 2013
I am glad I am no longer there. I had always wondered which one of these guys would run the airplane off the runway. I still expect to see them in a headline one day off a runway some where.

Think not that people with 10,000+ hours could not be of the same mind set.

I have since started my own company and could not be happier. I have written one book and thought about writing another on the perils of aviation. I have two chapters reserved for incompetent flight departments.

Since: Jul 13

United States

#5 Jul 7, 2013
On thing the Chief pilot did do was to quit hiring experienced pilots and to begin hiring low time pilots. They do not go against the grain and work to fit in. They are, as he said, more easily moldable.

What that means is, they would rather kiss butt then go against the grain and stand up for things which are wrong.
tiger_-_dad

Marietta, GA

#6 Jul 7, 2013
Sounds like where I work, but it is a totally different Industry (a Chemical Production plant).
Way too strange to say all, but the level above me is a guy that is between his Junior and Senior year in college (here for the summer). I've been in this Industry since 1985 (worked for the competitor for 5 years first).
Lyability

United States

#7 Jul 8, 2013
Burned By wrote:
The chief pilot already has a violation on his record and the management not only knows it; they gave him other duties while he served his flight suspension. In the real world charm out weighs intelligence. This is akin to a Felon running a bank! This is but one of many issues.
I would think the lyability of a company having a violation and a history of poor flying ability would be astronomicle for the company. I would think a small accident would cost the company a fortune knowing who they have as a chief pilot. I think If I owned the company I would ditch the pilot or buy another company.
sad

Hialeah, FL

#8 Jul 8, 2013
The carnage continues. Barack Obama funneled untold billions to his airline friends, yet people are dying at an ever increasing rate due to the abject negligence in maintenance. The crime, death, and minority unemployment rates have gone up on Obama's watch. Terrorist attacks like Boston and Bengazhi have rocked our safety to the very core like never before. The economy and our society go down the tubes as we become no better than rabid dogs. Human rights are stripped from citizens so that Obama can stack elections in his favor and spy on those who dissent. Obama is a tyrant with blood on his hands. Like all cowardly little bullies, I'm sure he has a list of people he'd like to blame. The reality is that Obama is responsible for more deaths than any president in US history. He should be tried in one like those secret courts he wants us to "just trust". What a sleeze bag.
Profits B4 People

Tulsa, OK

#9 Jul 8, 2013
Just the weekend news, back to my round of golf at Marthas Vineyard. BarakO
Begning of the End

United States

#10 Jul 12, 2013
Burned By wrote:
On thing the Chief pilot did do was to quit hiring experienced pilots and to begin hiring low time pilots. They do not go against the grain and work to fit in. They are, as he said, more easily moldable.
What that means is, they would rather kiss butt then go against the grain and stand up for things which are wrong.
This would be a sign of a company on the down hill slide. When they pressure people to act a certain way, to hide things that are going on, tell people not to talk about stuff and mold people for the purpose of personal power instead of what is best for the company, it is the beginning of the end. I have seen this many time.

Accidents will be on the increase and personal dissatisfaction of how people are treated. You wake up one day and what once was a good company becomes an evil empire with ZERO loyalty from current or former members.

Soon, an icon becomes a symbol of evil and oppressiveness with real cooperation at zero, everyone out for themselves and a safety environment no one want's to be in.

NO ONE does anything for the right reason! EVERYONE is out to protect their skin; nothing else! The goal is to know when is the right time to jump ship before being pulled in when it sinks!
Toto

Indianapolis, IN

#11 Jul 18, 2013
Flying ain't rocket science...but then again, some pilots can't even drive a car!

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#12 Jul 18, 2013
that's racial brah time to smash some white girls
Tac Recon

United States

#14 Jul 20, 2013
Burned By wrote:
I often heard, with the flight time this crew had it seems unlikely that they could have made an error in flight path........ I would discount that.
I flew for Kimball International. I have about 8,000 hours and the chief pilot and others had far more. I learned early on to keep my mouth shut as there was a code within the group; kind of like a group of click-ish school girls.
Often pilots who are set in their ways quit learning and are set in their faults as well. These pilots often championed things which make them look wise and avoided things which they simply did not grasp. Often years of assumptions ingrained faults in their routines and their ego's blocked any criticism.
Small things I have no trouble sweeping under the rug but one issue arose I could not keep quit about. Many of the pilots were flying below glide slope approaches. I know why. The thinking is they can target the end of the runway and make a shorter landing.
The problem is the opposite is true. A shallow approach drags out the flair longer creating a longer landing. The solution for people in this frame of mind is to come in lower next time.
I brought it up in a meeting when I could no longer be quit. To my surprise I was told "We are Falcon pilots, you are a King Air pilot and you don't know what you are talking about!". Latter the chief pilot pulled me aside and told me I did not know what I was talking about and need to keep my mouth shut.
Well here are the problems with a low and slow approach. First, a steeper approach requires more flair to arrest the descent. In doing so, more energy is dissipated slowing the airplane much faster creating a much shorter landing.
Second, a low approach creates a dangerous situation for many reasons. First the altitude clearance is not guaranteed which means you could make contact with something in the approach; in this situation, the gear hit the ocean wall knocking off the tail of the airplane. Second, low and slow gives you no cushion should you get behind the power curve. If you do not have enough energy, there may not be time to make correction. Third, as you flair, you get increase ground effect and as I mentioned before, you begin to float making crosswind landings far harder.
Not only was my department upside down on this issue but was championed by my chief pilot. I had asked people a few times in the dark to please bring the airplane back up to glide slope watching the silhouette of trees above us.
On one arrival as I was flying in (no passengers) coming in on glide path on a perfect approach, my chief pilot said "This is a problem!". Blind sided I said, "What is a problem?" He said flying on glide path is just too high for these jets. I said, what if I come in too high? He said you will over shoot. I thought, perfect time to demonstrate.
I brought the plane up for a steeper approach. On touch down it thumped because the speed bled off so fast. At touch down it slowed so fast we were unable to deploy thrust reverses as we were already below minim speed for thrust reverses. The airplane was almost stopped on it's own at 1/2 runway. I thought what a perfect example.
I said nothing. I thought we would have a constructive discussion. Instead as we re-stocked the airplane he began throwing snacks across the room like a child yelling at me. He told me he was a "G&% D&%$# Falcon Pilot" and he did not need me to tell him how to fly. He told me he ORDERED me to and EXPECTED me to fly below glide slope approaches.
As a pilot from the military I now fly for an airline. As military pilots we all have horror story after horror story of civilian pilots who make it to the airline. When we fly with civilian pilots we have to forever keep en eye out for the next dumb thing they will do. There is never a day were they don't try to kill us.
question

Columbus, IN

#15 Jul 21, 2013
How would an corporate airplane accident effect the stock price if the company is a public company?

Since: Jul 13

United States

#16 Jul 24, 2013
question wrote:
How would an corporate airplane accident effect the stock price if the company is a public company?
Like this one?

http://www.madcowprod.com/02242009.html

Chief Pilot and CEO were arrested!
tracon

Indianapolis, IN

#17 Jul 25, 2013
Tac Recon wrote:
<quoted text>
As a pilot from the military I now fly for an airline. As military pilots we all have horror story after horror story of civilian pilots who make it to the airline. When we fly with civilian pilots we have to forever keep en eye out for the next dumb thing they will do. There is never a day were they don't try to kill us.
The FAA is reactive not proactive. If it is a private aircraft or company they will not do anything...until someone dies.
Obama FAA

United States

#18 Jul 26, 2013
tracon wrote:
<quoted text>
The FAA is reactive not proactive. If it is a private aircraft or company they will not do anything...until someone dies.
Kimball has supported many Democrats. The Obama FAA isn't going to touch them! If they supported GOP candidates, then the Obama FAA would have hung them out to dry a long time ago!
Realist

New Salisbury, IN

#19 Jul 27, 2013
FAA isn't really capable of doing much unless there is a crash.

Since: Jul 13

United States

#20 Aug 2, 2013
tracon wrote:
<quoted text>
The FAA is reactive not proactive. If it is a private aircraft or company they will not do anything...until someone dies.
One of the guys we flew with said they "carry him" as the consequences are not worth it.
crashn planes

Indianapolis, IN

#21 Aug 10, 2013
With the crash in New Jersey and companies like this give fly'n a bad rep.
Old but not bold

United States

#22 Aug 21, 2013
I would like to know why a company would risk hiring a chief pilot who has a previous violation. That is just asking for a company to commit financial and legal suicide should there ever be an incident of ANY sort! This is beyond poor judgement for the leaders of a company.

If they make decisions this bad.......Hang on.

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