Informed Person

Lasalle, Canada

#1027 Dec 3, 2010
Jensen wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope that you have learned that the world cant be divided in black vs white or european vs african.
Ignore him. He barely understands population genetics, nevermind history. Answering his comments is dignifying them and wasting time better spent discussing more productive things with other, actually knowledgeable people.

Just look at his claim that Hassan et al.(2008) associate E1b1b1a1 (E-V12) with Nubians. This is a blatant lie. In reality, Hassan and his colleagues state in no uncertain terms that the presence of all E1b1b1a (E-M78) sub-clades in Sudan is due to admixture with migrants from North Africa (i.e. Hamites):

"The analysis of M78 subclades among Sudanese suggests that two subclades, E-V12 and E-V22, which are very common in northern African (Cruciani et al., 2007), might have been brought to Sudan from North Africa after the progressive desertification of the Sahara around 6,000–8,000 years ago. Sudden climate change might have forced several Neolithic cultures/people to shift northwards to the Mediterranean and southwards to the Sahel and Nile Valley"

http://dirkschweitzer.net/E3b-papers/Hassan-S...

Cruciani et al.(2007) likewise clearly indicate that E1b1b1a (E-M78) itself originated in Northeastern Africa (which they define in their study as Egypt and Libya):

"the peripheral geographic distribution of the most derived subhaplogroups with respect to northeastern Africa, as well as the results of quantitative analysis of UEP and microsatellite diversity are strongly suggestive of a northeastern rather than an eastern African origin of E-M78. Northeastern Africa thus seems to be the place from where E-M78 chromosomes started to disperse to other African regions and outside Africa."

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/6/13...

Besides experiencing admixture from living near Egypt, Hassan et al.(2008) also state that, among the Nilo-Saharan-speaking groups, the Masalit in Western Sudan have significant frequencies of the Egyptian E-M78 subclades because of a recent population bottleneck:

"The Masalit possesses by far the highest frequency of the E-M78 and of the E-V32 haplogroup, suggesting either a recent bottleneck in the population or a proximity to the origin of the haplogroup."

Because this Afrocentrist character probably has no idea what that the term "population bottleneck" means, he now believes the Egyptians are really Nubians! LOL Perhaps you should explain to him that a population bottleneck means that something likely happened to the ancestors of the Nilo-Saharan groups in Western Sudan (either in the form of famine, drought, war, disease or natural disaster) that killed off a bunch of said peoples.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/...

That means that the various haplogroups present amongst their descendants today, such as the Fur, are just a small fraction of what they were in the past. In other words, the modern frequencies of E1b1b1a (E-M78) sub-clades in these same populations are unrepresentative of and were proportionately way lower in the past (prior to that devastating bottleneck event) than they are today. Not to mention that even back then -- which wasn't that long ago, according to the authors -- these E-M78 sub-clades were introduced by North Africans. They were never native to these or any other Nilo-Saharan groups.
Informed Person

Lasalle, Canada

#1028 Dec 3, 2010
Jensen wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope that you have learned that the world cant be divided in black vs white or european vs african.
Furthermore, in Tables 1 & 5 of their study, Hassan et al. make a clear distinction between the Nilo-Saharan groups that experienced admixture from either North Africa (in the form of E1b1b1a (E-M78) sub-clades) or the Middle East (haplogroup J sub-clades) versus the Nilo-Saharan groups that, in comparison, did not experience much admixture. They do this by referring to the former, mixed Nilo-Saharan groups as "non-Nilotic" and the latter comparatively pure groups (such as the Dinka, Nuer and Shilluk) as "Nilotic". Also note the dominant frequencies of the archaic Sub-Saharan haplogroups A & B in these purer Nilotes, just as I pointed out earlier: that's the real Nilotic paternal DNA:

"It seems that gene flow is not only recent (Holocene onward) but also largely of focal nature. Most speakers of Nilo-Saharan languages, the major linguistic family spoken in the country, show very little evidence of gene flow and demonstrate low migration rate, with exception of the Nubians, who appear to have sustained considerable gene flow from Asia and Europe together with the
Beja."

As for that old joke that Hamites are related to blacks through the dominance of the "PN2 clade" (E1b1) in both groups, this is a very weak argument that might've seemed plausible years ago. However, it most certainly does not now; not after Rosa et al.(2007) and Woods et al.(2005), both of which make it abundantly clear that, before the Bantu expansion that changed their paternal DNA, the ancestors of most Sub-Saharan Africans belonged to other, archaic paternal haplogroups characteristic of Pygmies and Bushmen (i.e. haplogroups A and B). Lineages that are still found at high frequencies in those relict hunter-gatherer populations, as well as in most unmixed Nilotes (i.e. the Dinka, Nuer, Shilluk, etc.):

"Together with the introduction of iron-smelting techniques ~2.7 kya, agriculture led ultimately to the large-scale Bantu migrations from the Gulf of Guinea to the south of the continent. From the perspective of Y chromosome genetic variation, such movements are believed to have erased much of the pre-existing diversity, replacing it with the now dominant haplogroup E3a-M2 lineages."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...

"The data presented here are consistent with the hypothesis that prehistoric agriculture dispersed hand-in-hand with Bantu languages and Y chromosomes, with languages and Y chromosomes replacing those of hunter-gatherers in the paths of expansion. Not all populations speaking Bantu languages in our study showed the effects of complete paternal genetic replacement (eg, the Bantu-speaking western Pygmies and northern Cameroonians)."

https://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/WoodEJHG200...

Prior to the Bantu expansion, a small group of Bantus, in turn, acquired haplogroup E sub-clades from admixture with North Africans. In other words, haplogroup E is not indigenous to ANY Sub-Saharan black groups. It is Hamitic DNA that the blacks acquired only recently (i.e. a few thousand years ago) and thus have no business getting possessive over. In fact, not one single study indicates that haplogroup E originated amongst Bantus or other Black Africans. They all indicate that either it originated in Northeast Africa or in Asia:

"Y-DNA haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in Northeast Africa based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration."

"E1b1a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern Africa to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion."

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE09.htm...
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1030 Dec 4, 2010
Informed Person wrote:
<quoted text>
Prior to the Bantu expansion, a small group of Bantus, in turn, acquired haplogroup E sub-clades from admixture with North Africans. In other words, haplogroup E is not indigenous to ANY Sub-Saharan black groups. It is Hamitic DNA that the blacks acquired only recently (i.e. a few thousand years ago) and thus have no business getting possessive over. In fact, not one single study indicates that haplogroup E originated amongst Bantus or other Black Africans. They all indicate that either it originated in Northeast Africa or in Asia:
Thanks, this explains it.
As I see it , the somali and the other hamites in The Horn have 3 choices.

1) Be part of a bantu nation/Union which will cause you to loose your hamitic identity
2) Be clompetely arabized/colonized
3) Form a hamitic Horn Union in alliance with Europe. The egyptians have been clompetely arabized but there is still a strong feeling of hamitic berber identity among the northwest africans, and I think that a country like Marocco would prefer to join the EU instead of beeing clompetely arabized or becomming a member of a bantu union. If the berbers in Northwest Africa could resurrect their hamitic berber culture then this would stop the arabization of Northern Africa and then this would open the doors for a great Northafrican ( inclusive the Horn) hamitic union which preserves the different hamitic ( berber, cushitic, egyptian) identities.
Then you could ask what interest I have in this? I believe that if Europe has to be great and lead the world again we have to remember that the european civilization was born on the mediterranean shores as an offspring between the meeting of the indo-europeans and the hamites. The only way for southern Europe to develop, is if Northafrica and Europe unite so that the mediterranean sea again will be the inner sea, the sea in the middle, Mare nostrum of a great euro-hamitic union spanning from Scandinavia to the Horn. This will never happen if the northafricans believe that they are arabs or bantus ( AU).
If Gadaffi and the libyans could be convinced that they are hamitic libyans and not arabs then the egyptians would be next and then the hamitic Horn would again be connected with their hamitic and mediterranean brothers in Northafrica and southern Europe instead of beeing arabized or colonized by bantus.
As I see it there is some major problems for this to be realized.
1) the ethiopian dictatorship worship the semites from the arabian peninsula and therefore wish to destroy the hamitic oromo, somali, afar, sidame, agaw cultures and the ethiopian dictatorship has forgotten that also the tigre, tigray and amharas are originally hamites.
2) the north sudanese dictatorship worship the semites from the arabian peninsula and therefore wish to destroy the hamitic beja culture which is the bridge between nEgypt and the Horn.
4) Some southern hamites like the somalis feel cut off and alone because they are sourrounded by bantus and therefore they coorporate with arabs because they have more in common with arabs, but the arabs wish to colonize their lands.

The only solution is to build a strong hamitic Horn union in alliance with Europe wich would also lay the foundations for the rest of Northafrica, beginng in the west, to rediscover their hamitic culture, history and DNA.

This could be a win-win situation for both europeans and the hamites, just a shame that both the hamites and we europeans have become so passive that we dont even know or own interests anymore.
Somaliluver

Mississauga, Canada

#1032 Dec 4, 2010
More people of Yemen and Socotra:

http://www.google.ca/imgres...

http://www.google.ca/imgres...

http://www.google.ca/imgres...

Jensen as you can see these people are Black skinned and resemble the other people from across the Red Sea, which maybe the reason why Somalis and Ethiopians say their ancestors crossed over not Semitic ones but Hamitic ones who once ruled all Arabia and the Middle East.
Somaliluver

Mississauga, Canada

#1033 Dec 4, 2010

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#1034 Dec 4, 2010
Jensen wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, this explains it.
As I see it , the somali and the other hamites in The Horn have 3 choices.
1) Be part of a bantu nation/Union which will cause you to loose your hamitic identity
2) Be clompetely arabized/colonized
3) Form a hamitic Horn Union in alliance with Europe. The egyptians have been clompetely arabized but there is still a strong feeling of hamitic berber identity among the northwest africans, and I think that a country like Marocco would prefer to join the EU instead of beeing clompetely arabized or becomming a member of a bantu union. If the berbers in Northwest Africa could resurrect their hamitic berber culture then this would stop the arabization of Northern Africa and then this would open the doors for a great Northafrican ( inclusive the Horn) hamitic union which preserves the different hamitic ( berber, cushitic, egyptian) identities.
Then you could ask what interest I have in this? I believe that if Europe has to be great and lead the world again we have to remember that the european civilization was born on the mediterranean shores as an offspring between the meeting of the indo-europeans and the hamites. The only way for southern Europe to develop, is if Northafrica and Europe unite so that the mediterranean sea again will be the inner sea, the sea in the middle, Mare nostrum of a great euro-hamitic union spanning from Scandinavia to the Horn. This will never happen if the northafricans believe that they are arabs or bantus ( AU).
If Gadaffi and the libyans could be convinced that they are hamitic libyans and not arabs then the egyptians would be next and then the hamitic Horn would again be connected with their hamitic and mediterranean brothers in Northafrica and southern Europe instead of beeing arabized or colonized by bantus.
As I see it there is some major problems for this to be realized.
1) the ethiopian dictatorship worship the semites from the arabian peninsula and therefore wish to destroy the hamitic oromo, somali, afar, sidame, agaw cultures and the ethiopian dictatorship has forgotten that also the tigre, tigray and amharas are originally hamites.
2) the north sudanese dictatorship worship the semites from the arabian peninsula and therefore wish to destroy the hamitic beja culture which is the bridge between nEgypt and the Horn.
4) Some southern hamites like the somalis feel cut off and alone because they are sourrounded by bantus and therefore they coorporate with arabs because they have more in common with arabs, but the arabs wish to colonize their lands.
The only solution is to build a strong hamitic Horn union in alliance with Europe wich would also lay the foundations for the rest of Northafrica, beginng in the west, to rediscover their hamitic culture, history and DNA.
This could be a win-win situation for both europeans and the hamites, just a shame that both the hamites and we europeans have become so passive that we dont even know or own interests anymore.
stop talking about Sudan ,you damn idiot .not all North Sudanese are Arab .and go learn more about Libya .they are tribe of Arab ancestry there such as Banu Suleyman .and go read more about Sudan,just because the goverment is pro Arab mean that all Arab agree with them .Ja'alin people don't care about politic ,Raishaida belong to a rebelgroup who is fighting against Karthoum goverment .and don't tell me that the goverment is supporting Raishaida people .read more about the Free Lions in case that you think so .
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1035 Dec 4, 2010
tshad wrote:
<quoted text>
stop talking about Sudan ,you damn idiot .not all North Sudanese are Arab .and go learn more about Libya .they are tribe of Arab ancestry there such as Banu Suleyman .and go read more about Sudan,just because the goverment is pro Arab mean that all Arab agree with them .Ja'alin people don't care about politic ,Raishaida belong to a rebelgroup who is fighting against Karthoum goverment .and don't tell me that the goverment is supporting Raishaida people .read more about the Free Lions in case that you think so .
I did not talk bad about the north-sudanese people, I critized the north-sudanese dictatotship - not the people.
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1036 Dec 4, 2010
Somaliluver wrote:
Do you know this book: Faces of the hamitic people ?

http://books.google.com/books...

I am starting to understand that E1b1b1a and e1b1 is maybe not african but Indian. The reason why the bantus and west africans carry the E1b1a is because e1b1 was introduced to West Africa by hamites and then the e1b1 mutated into e1b1a which spread to southern Africa with the bantu expansion.

From Informed Person:
" Prior to the Bantu expansion, a small group of Bantus, in turn, acquired haplogroup E sub-clades from admixture with North Africans. In other words, haplogroup E is not indigenous to ANY Sub-Saharan black groups. It is Hamitic DNA that the blacks acquired only recently (i.e. a few thousand years ago) and thus have no business getting possessive over. "
" Y-DNA haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in Northeast Africa based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration"

Another interesting thing is that the Y-DNA T combines The Horn ( Kush), Oman ( Magan), Sumeria and India which was once part of a great hamitic civilization according to the book " Faces of the hamitic people"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Distributio...

Also the hamites( horners, sumerians, indians) and the aryans were once the same people.

Read this:
Magan (also Makkan[1]) was an ancient region which was referred to in Sumerian cuneiform texts of around 2300 BC as a source of copper and diorite for Mesopotamia.
The location of Magan is not known with certainty, but most of the archeological and geological evidence suggests that Magan was part of what is now Oman. Ranajit Pal holds that Oman and part of Iran was Magan. In his view king Manium of Magan who, according to Poebel, was also known as Mannu, was the famed Manu, the first sacrificer in the Indian sacred text Rigveda. The name Oman may, in fact, be a memory of Ooumi Manu, one of the several Manus."

and:

"In various Hindu traditions, Manu is a title accorded to the progenitor of mankind"

and:

" Mannus is a Germanic mythological figure attested by the 1st century Roman historian Tacitus in his work Germania. According to Tacitus, Mannus is the son of Tuisto and the progenitor of the three Germanic tribes Ingaevones, Herminones and Istvaeones."

" The Ingaevones or, as Pliny has it, apparently more accurately, Ingvaeones ("people of Yngvi")[1], as described in Tacitus's Germania, written c. 98 CE, were a West Germanic cultural group living along the North Sea coast in the areas of Jutland, Holstein, Frisia and the Danish islands"

" Furthermore, while Mannus is remembered as being the father of both Odin and Frey, Heimdal is remembered as being one of the Aesir, but also to have qualities directly linked to the Vanir and to exist in a close paternal relationship to Freyja."

This means that both the nordics/indo-europeans and the hamites are descendants of a people from India, maybe the atlanteans.
Somaliluver

Mississauga, Canada

#1037 Dec 4, 2010
Thats what I've been saying all along. Thats why the Hindu Scriptures always talk about how the Cushites occupied India before the Aryans.

"Even the name Hindu is Ethiopian. Ancient records of authority made Hind and Sind sons of Cush. Philostratus. in Vit. Apollon (Lib. II), says, "The Indi are the wisest of mankind. The Ethiopians are a colony of them, and they inherit the wisdom of their fathers." The separation of India from the parent Cushite stock was in ages long before the rise of the so-called Aryans in India. The older Greeks always associated the sacred waves of the Indian Sea with the wonderful Ethiopians. Ephorus stated that they occupied all the southern coasts of Asia and Africa. As in Chaldea they brought to the aboriginal tribes of India the knowledge of metals to take the place of stone implements, they brought the knowledge of the arts. Their funeral remains all over India reveal the stone circles and upright massive menhirs of North Africa. They understood in those far distant ages how to make hard earthenware, iron weapons and ornaments of gold. Today in a state of degenerated art, Sind is the only province where the potters craft is artistic. Before Megathenes, a Greek ambassador to the court of the non-Aryan Chandra Gupta, about 300 B. C., the Greeks mentioned as Indi only the Cushites of the areas between the Hindu Kush and Persia."

"The first glimpses that we catch of the Hindu in historical times we find a people of varied

p. 215

ethnology. The popular theory emphasizes an Aryan invasion that took place in late ages, compared to the primitive times when the deeds of the Indian epics were, enacted. As late as the authoritative records of history, the most powerful kingdoms of India were ruled over by non-Aryan princes. These were the Indi of the ancient records. This ruling race had produced the culture that passed down, and just as across all the wide belt of the equator the civilization of the ancient Cushite was appropriated--here it was not destroyed. So intermixed are all the classes of the Hindu today that all Brahmin, and Soudra have identically the same formation of skull, the old formation of Ethiopia. This later Brahmic type which has only ruled India in the Christian Era is Turanian in the same sense that the races of western Europe may be so called. These Turanians entering India were inferior in culture to the Indi. Today after continued conquest, we find great peoples using literary languages among the Dravidians who represent the primitive Cushite stock. Such are the Tamils, Telugu, Malayalam and Kanarese. Authorities dispute the claim that the black Rajputs were the same race as the invading Turanians. The ancient books read without prejudice reveal a deadly contest between Brahmins and the Kshattriyas, the original royal stock."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/we/we17.htm
Somaliluver

Mississauga, Canada

#1038 Dec 4, 2010
"5000 years ago we have shown there was no branch of the Aryan race that could have produced the Rig-Veda. 5000 years ago no Japhethic nation possessed blacksmiths, chariots, and the civilization that the Rig-Veda reveals. It seems to be the story of the passage to the southwest of Hindu colonists from the mountains of Hindu-Kush (Cush) down into the plains of India. Note the name of the region from which they came. In the beginning these invaders took Dravidian wives because most probably they, were primarily of the same stock. 3000 to 4500 B. C. the father is represented with the ancient Cushite traits in all their glory. He was priest of the family. He conducted human sacrifice, for which the horse sacrifice was substituted in later."
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1039 Dec 4, 2010
Somaliluver wrote:
This later Brahmic type which has only ruled India in the Christian Era is Turanian in the same sense that the races of western Europe may be so called. These Turanians entering India were inferior in culture to the Indi. Today after continued conquest, we find great peoples using literary languages among the Dravidians who represent the primitive Cushite stock. Such are the Tamils, Telugu, Malayalam and Kanarese. Authorities dispute the claim that the black Rajputs were the same race as the invading Turanians. The ancient books read without prejudice reveal a deadly contest between Brahmins and the Kshattriyas, the original royal stock."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/we/we17.htm
The turanian race compose both speakers of Altaic ( turkic, mongol, japonic) and Uralic (hungarian, finnish, estonian)
And anctually the dravidian language and the turanian language belong in the same language family.
" The term Turanian, now obsolete, was formerly used by European (especially German, Hungarian and Slovak) ethnologists, linguists and Romantics to designate populations speaking non-Indo-European, non-Semitic and non-Hamitic languages[28] and specially speakers of Altaic, Dravidian, Uralic, Japanese, Korean and other languages.
Max Müller classified the Turanian language family into different sub-branches. The Northern or Ural-Altaic division branch compromised Tungusic, Mongolic, Turkic, Samoyedic, and Finnic. The Southern branch consisted of Dravidian languages like Tamil, Kannada, Telugu, Malayalam, and other Dravidian languages."
The interesting thing is that the speakers of the turanian altaic languages carry the Y-DNA D and the ancestor to Y-DNA D is DE. Y-DNA DE split into D ( turanian) and E ( hamitic).
" Like haplogroup C, D is believed to represent the Great Coastal Migration along southern Asia, from Arabia to Southeast Asia and thence northward to populate East Asia. It is found today at high frequency among populations in Tibet, the Japanese Archipelago, and the Andaman Islands, though curiously not in India. The Ainu of Japan and the Jarawa and Onge of the Andaman Islands are notable for possessing almost exclusively Haplogroup D chromosomes.... Haplogroup D chromosomes are also found at low to moderate frequencies among populations of Central Asia and northern East Asia as well as the Han and Miao-Yao peoples of China and among several minority populations of Sichuan and Yunnan that speak Tibeto-Burman languages and reside in close proximity to the Tibetans."
This means that the hamites E and the turanians D have the same ancestors Y-DNA DE.
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1040 Dec 4, 2010
To Somaliluver

It is interesting that the original inhabitans of japan called the Ainu also had caucasoid features and they carry the Y-DNA D. The ancestor to Y-DNA D and E ( hamitic ) is Y-DNA DE.

" Full-blooded Ainu are lighter skinned than their Japanese neighbors and have more body hair.[21] Many early investigators proposed a Caucasian ancestry,[22] although recent DNA tests have not shown major genetic similarity with modern caucasian Europeans.

"Genetic testing of the Ainu people has shown them to belong mainly to Y-haplogroup D2.[23] Y-DNA haplogroup D2 is found frequently throughout the Japanese Archipelago including Okinawa. The only places outside of Japan in which Y-haplogroup D is common are Tibet and the Andaman Islands in the Indian Ocean.[24]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AinuManStil...
Originally the ainu, mongols and tibeteans had caucasoid features before they mixed with the chinese. The ainu Y-DNA D abd the hamites Y-DNA E have the same ancestor called Y-DNA DE. Y-DNA DE migrated from the Horn along the coasts of the mid-east and India where it migrated north and mutated to D and became the turanian people.
The ancestor to Y-DNA DE is Y-DNA CT. This means that the Y-DNA CT is the ancestor to D ( turanians) E ( hamites) C ( mongols) and F ( indo-europeans, semites, nordics).
This means that the caucasoid DNA is Y-DNA CT. And the reason why some carriers of the descendants of CT do not have caucasoid features is because they are mixed with other non-caucasoid. The west africans and bantus do also carry Y-DNA E but E was introduced into the west african population recently by hamitic people and some chinese do also carry one of the descendants of Y-DNA F and D but some of the people who brought civilization to China were the caucasoid turanians D and indo-europeans F.( They have found almost 2 meters high mumies with caucasoid features and red hear in northern China)
DAK

London, UK

#1041 Dec 5, 2010
Somaliluver wrote:
Thats what I've been saying all along. Thats why the Hindu Scriptures always talk about how the Cushites occupied India before the Aryans.
"Even the name Hindu is Ethiopian. Ancient records of authority made Hind and Sind sons of Cush. Philostratus. in Vit. Apollon (Lib. II), says, "The Indi are the wisest of mankind. The Ethiopians are a colony of them, and they inherit the wisdom of their fathers." The separation of India from the parent Cushite stock was in ages long before the rise of the so-called Aryans in India. The older Greeks always associated the sacred waves of the Indian Sea with the wonderful Ethiopians. Ephorus stated that they occupied all the southern coasts of Asia and Africa. As in Chaldea they brought to the aboriginal tribes of India the knowledge of metals to take the place of stone implements, they brought the knowledge of the arts. Their funeral remains all over India reveal the stone circles and upright massive menhirs of North Africa. They understood in those far distant ages how to make hard earthenware, iron weapons and ornaments of gold. Today in a state of degenerated art, Sind is the only province where the potters craft is artistic. Before Megathenes, a Greek ambassador to the court of the non-Aryan Chandra Gupta, about 300 B. C., the Greeks mentioned as Indi only the Cushites of the areas between the Hindu Kush and Persia."
"The first glimpses that we catch of the Hindu in historical times we find a people of varied
p. 215
ethnology. The popular theory emphasizes an Aryan invasion that took place in late ages, compared to the primitive times when the deeds of the Indian epics were, enacted. As late as the authoritative records of history, the most powerful kingdoms of India were ruled over by non-Aryan princes. These were the Indi of the ancient records. This ruling race had produced the culture that passed down, and just as across all the wide belt of the equator the civilization of the ancient Cushite was appropriated--here it was not destroyed. So intermixed are all the classes of the Hindu today that all Brahmin, and Soudra have identically the same formation of skull, the old formation of Ethiopia. This later Brahmic type which has only ruled India in the Christian Era is Turanian in the same sense that the races of western Europe may be so called. These Turanians entering India were inferior in culture to the Indi. Today after continued conquest, we find great peoples using literary languages among the Dravidians who represent the primitive Cushite stock. Such are the Tamils, Telugu, Malayalam and Kanarese. Authorities dispute the claim that the black Rajputs were the same race as the invading Turanians. The ancient books read without prejudice reveal a deadly contest between Brahmins and the Kshattriyas, the original royal stock."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/we/we17.htm
-Kush empire in India has nothing to do with the Cushite in Africa except for the simialr "sound".
-Chandra Gupta was "Aryan".
- The Dravidians did move from Meditrananen area of North Africa but that was as long ago as 10K years plus.
- there is no record of deadly contest between Brahmins and Ksahtrriyas. Brahmins were a very small minority who served as priests. Ksatriyas were the kings and soldiers.
- etc, etc

Now, which "sources" of history did you read to err so badly? There are people who concoct stories and you should be careful before you quote then as authorative records or even credible speculations.
Somaliluver

Mississauga, Canada

#1042 Dec 5, 2010
Yeah mummies with red hair, blond hair, were found all over China and also in North America but the Smithsonian Institute wants to hide it and teach kids that the only form of Caucasians who went to the Americas were Spaniards, when you had Phoenicians, Vikings and possibly other Hamites and Nordics before that.

Though you have to remember Jensen that the only Nordic people who did practice mummification were the Berbers, and the others were the Cushitic Hamites. So if its possible that there were Hamites all over the world once (Atlanteans) than this would prove it.
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1043 Dec 5, 2010
Somaliluver wrote:
Though you have to remember Jensen that the only Nordic people who did practice mummification were the Berbers, and the others were the Cushitic Hamites. So if its possible that there were Hamites all over the world once (Atlanteans) than this would prove it.
Just some danish mummies.
" The Tollund Man is the naturally mummified corpse of a man who lived during the 4th century BC, during the time period characterised in Scandinavia as the Pre-Roman Iron Age.[1]."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tollundmand...
" The Grauballe Man is a bog body that was uncovered in 1952 from a peat bog near to the village of Grauballe in Jutland, Denmark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grauballema...
" There are of course bog bodies that are exceptions in that they do not date to the Iron Age. The oldest known bog body is that of the Koelbjerg Woman who was found in Denmark, and has been dated to around 8000 BCE, during the Stone Age"
" The Haraldskær Woman is an Iron Age bog body found naturally preserved in a bog in Jutland, Denmark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haraldskaer...
" Borremose Bodies is the collective name for three bog bodies found in the Borremose peat bog in Himmerland, Denmark. Recovered between 1946 and 1948, the bodies of a man and two women have been dated to the Nordic Bronze Age."
Old Denmark, now occupied by Germany since the year of 1864 ( Windeby is a danish name)
" Windeby I is the name given to the bog body found preserved in a peat bog near Windeby, Northern Germany, in 1952. Until recently, the body was also called the Windeby Girl, because an archeologist believed it to be the body of a 14-year old female due to its slight build. Prof. Heather Gill-Robinson, a Canadian anthropologist and pathologist, used DNA testing to show the body was actually that of a male. The Windeby I body is one of the most well-preserved bog bodies in the world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windeby_I.j...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windeby_I_r...
" The Elling Woman is a bog body discovered in 1938 west of Silkeborg, Denmark. The Tollund Man was later discovered around 200 feet away, twelve years after the Elling Woman's discovery."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ellingreko....
" Huldremose Woman is the name of the bog body of an elderly Iron Age woman discovered in 1879 near Ramten, Jutland, Denmark. The body, found clothed in a wool skirt and two skin capes, dated between 160 BCE and 340 CE"
Old danish land ( osterby is a danish name):
" The Osterby Head was discovered in 1948 in Osterby, Germany, when two peat cutters were working"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Osterby_Man...
" The Egtved Girl (c. 1390–1370 BC) was a Nordic Bronze Age girl whose well-preserved remains were found at Egtved (55°37&#8242;N 9°18&#8242;E&#65279; / &#65279;55.617°N 9.3°E&#65279; / 55.617; 9.3), Denmark in 1921"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Egtved_Girl...
And many many more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elling_Woman#Ell...
The bog bodies are found in the nordic civilization:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nordic_Bron...
and among the descendats of the nordics in northern Germany, Netherlands, Scotland, Ireland and England.
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1044 Dec 5, 2010
Somaliluver wrote:
History of the nordics:

We nordics started in Scandinavia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nordic_Bron...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HG_I1_europ...

And then we migrated south:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Germanic_tr... (750BC-1AD).png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Karte_v%C3%...

And then we began to fight the expanding hamitic-indo-european roman empire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pre_Migrati...

Then some of our descendants called the franks/germans, conquered Rome and converted to christianity and started a holy war against us nordics, and our brotherpeople the angels/english also converted to christianity some years after they conquered England from the celts.

So we nordics started to fight back and this was the beginning of the viking age.
Before the angels and the franks were proud to be of nordic/scandinavian descent but now when they became christians then suddenly they believed that they were the real israelites/ Gods chosen people and therefore had the right to convert us nordics by force. It sound just like when the hamites in Northern Africa converted to islam and suddenly believed that they were arabs.

First we danes builded northern Europes biggest defence structure called Danevirke/ The wall of the danes:

" According to written sources, work on the Danevirke was started by the Danish King Gudfred in 808. Fearing an invasion by the Franks, who had conquered heathen Frisia over the previous 100 years and Old Saxony in 772 to 804, Godfred began work on an enormous structure to defend his realm, separating the Jutland peninsula from the northern extent of the Frankish empire"
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Karte_Danewe...

Actually Danevirke was already build in 400 Ad to protect Denmark against the huns:
" Kulstof 14-dateringer antyder, at de første jordvolde i Danevirke allerede blev bygget i anden halvdel af 600-tallet. Forudgående volde stammer måske endog fra 400-tallet "
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Danewerk.JPG
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Map_danavirk...

And then we started to fight back against the now christian franks and angels who sudenly believed that they were isrealites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Viking_Expa...
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Vikings-Voya...

The funny thing is that the europeans accuse the vikings of being barbarians but then why did the viking build a 30 km long wall to protect Denmark and Scandinavia against the europeans?
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1045 Dec 5, 2010
Somaliluver wrote:
Yeah mummies with red hair, blond hair, were found all over China and also in North America but the Smithsonian Institute wants to hide it and teach kids that the only form of Caucasians who went to the Americas were Spaniards, when you had Phoenicians, Vikings and possibly other Hamites and Nordics before that.
Though you have to remember Jensen that the only Nordic people who did practice mummification were the Berbers, and the others were the Cushitic Hamites. So if its possible that there were Hamites all over the world once (Atlanteans) than this would prove it.
Strange my reply to you was deleted. I will make it short.

danish mummies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tollundmann...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grauballema...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huldremosek...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rendsw%C3%B... ( Slesvig used to be danish but has been occupied by Germany since 1864 AD)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windeby_I.j... ( Windeby usewd to be part of Denmark before 1864. Vindby is a danish name)
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Damendorf_Ma... ( Damtorp also used to be part od Denmark before 1864)
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Gunhild.jpg

And many many more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_bodies

"Bog bodies, which are also known as bog people, are the naturally preserved human corpses found in the sphagnum bogs in Northern Europe. Unlike most ancient human remains, bog bodies have retained their skin and internal organs due to the unusual conditions of the surrounding area. These conditions include highly acidic water, low temperature, and a lack of oxygen, combining to preserve but severely tan their skin. Despite the fact that their skin is preserved, their bones are generally not, as the acid in the peat dissolves the calcium phosphate of bone."

" The vast majority of the bog bodies that have been discovered date from the Iron Age, a period of time when the peat bogs covered a much larger area of northern Europe than they do currently. Many of these Iron Age bodies bear a number of similarities, indicating a known cultural tradition of killing and depositing these people in a certain manner."

" There are of course bog bodies that are exceptions in that they do not date to the Iron Age. The oldest known bog body is that of the Koelbjerg Woman who was found in Denmark, and has been dated to around 8000 BCE, during the Stone Age."

This is the area where the nordic mummies is found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nordic_Bron...

And:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Germanic_tr... (750BC-1AD).png

Maybe there is an ancient connection between the nordics Y-DNA I and the hamites.
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1046 Dec 5, 2010
When we started to migrate south:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Germanic_tr... (750BC-1AD).png
Jensen

Farum, Denmark

#1047 Dec 5, 2010
The link does not work try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_tribes
Somaliluver

Mississauga, Canada

#1048 Dec 5, 2010
Yes I know about Bog mummies, but I'm talking about actual mummies who are wrapped up in linen. That kind of mummification was practiced by Hamitic people, such as Berbers and Egyptians.

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