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Magnus Cerebrum

London, UK

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#21
Jun 18, 2013
 
INSEARCH_OF wrote:
"Good Manners" are important everywhere and to everyone. The problem with Somalis and many other religious zealots is the Belief that good manners can only come from religion.Itīs actually the opposite thatīs true:
An areligious/non-believing person can do any good dead that a believing person can do. However, when doing crazy things like stoning a rape victim or killing someone for having a different religion: THAT takes religion. That is a fact and no amount of akhlaaq can change that.
do you ever have anything positive to say about Islam ?
An areligious/non-believing person can do any good dead that a believing person can do


Are you talking about yourself here ? you could've just said " me insearch can do any good" lol why talk in third person when its obvious you are talking about yourself ? were not stupid , save yourself the embarrassment and just come out !.
thehassanabdi

UK

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#22
Jun 18, 2013
 
Magnus Cerebrum wrote:
<quoted text> do you ever have anything positive to say about Islam ?
<quoted text>
Are you talking about yourself here ? you could've just said " me insearch can do any good" lol why talk in third person when its obvious you are talking about yourself ? were not
stupid , save yourself the
embarrassment and just come out !.
Why are you talking to yourself Scrotum? Whom do you think you are fooling you Piggy bastard?
Magnus Cerebrum

London, UK

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#23
Jun 18, 2013
 
thehassanabdi wrote:
<quoted text> Why are you talking to yourself Scrotum? Whom do you think you are fooling you Piggy bastard?
hassan what's with the scrotum obsession ? take a chill pill mate , were on the same team here !

Since: Apr 13

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#24
Jun 18, 2013
 
INSEARCH_OF wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, there is a lack of good manners in the Community. But that canīt be due to lack of religion, we are bombarded with religion. So what is it?
I donīt Think secular societies are free of problems, but they are better equipped for dealing with it than religious societies.
And no evil doesnīt stem from religion, it stems from human beings, even religious evil. Itīs just that religion can and is being used to co-sign some of those evils.
Non muslims do injustice all the time, and so do muslims. Iīm just saying that religion as the sole prerequisite for good manners is, intellectually, a stretch and giving religion way too much credit.
The only religiosity that is known to our community, is the outer appearance. Our community might look pious from the outside (i.e. dress, connected to the masjids, memorization of Quran), but their is no piety in the hearts. We lack Iman and akhlaaq, and you can't have one with out the other.
You are right about secular countries doing better than us when it comes to social issues so I want to know what they did right and where we went wrong. I also, want to know where they failed so we don't fall into the same mistakes they did.
I don't think religion is the sole prerequisite of manners, But here is the thing, Somalis are very stubborn(I don't think that came as a shock to you), so what makes you think they are going to accept something that is foreign to them? Somalis don't deal will with change and prefer to stick to their old traditions. Somalis would rather lose their life than their value. That can be a very honorable thing and at the sometime very deadly. If it wasn't for this we wouldn't have a 22 year civil war. My theory is that I will use something Somalis already know and respect (i.e. Islam), they will happily accept it with open arms.If you come with something new, not only will it take you a long time but you will face 10x the obstacles I would.
Anyways, there doesn't have to be one solution as long as we reach our goal.
Also, the op and I came up with some ideas of how to get this discussion started with in our community. Social networks (youth), Somali channels (older folks), dugsis(kids). What do you think and any suggestions?

“turn back the hands of time”

Since: Apr 10

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#25
Jun 19, 2013
 
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
The only religiosity that is known to our community, is the outer appearance. Our community might look pious from the outside (i.e. dress, connected to the masjids, memorization of Quran), but their is no piety in the hearts. We lack Iman and akhlaaq, and you can't have one with out the other.
You are right about secular countries doing better than us when it comes to social issues so I want to know what they did right and where we went wrong. I also, want to know where they failed so we don't fall into the same mistakes they did.
I don't think religion is the sole prerequisite of manners, But here is the thing, Somalis are very stubborn(I don't think that came as a shock to you), so what makes you think they are going to accept something that is foreign to them? Somalis don't deal will with change and prefer to stick to their old traditions. Somalis would rather lose their life than their value. That can be a very honorable thing and at the sometime very deadly. If it wasn't for this we wouldn't have a 22 year civil war. My theory is that I will use something Somalis already know and respect (i.e. Islam), they will happily accept it with open arms.If you come with something new, not only will it take you a long time but you will face 10x the obstacles I would.
Anyways, there doesn't have to be one solution as long as we reach our goal.
Also, the op and I came up with some ideas of how to get this discussion started with in our community. Social networks (youth), Somali channels (older folks), dugsis(kids). What do you think and any suggestions?
The moralizing akhlaaq discussion is already being had in the community and it only serves as an ego booster for the moralizing hypocrites who destroy our society and corrupt our youth.

Hereīs an example of akhlaaq preaching and how miserable it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Watch the whole piece, and pay attention to a young caller at around 32:33, and the moralizing response she recieves to a very serious question.

“Safar Dheer iyo”

Since: Jan 11

Sahay Gaaban

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#26
Jun 19, 2013
 
Narrated Sahl bin Saad:

There was a dispute amongst the people of the tribe of Bani 'Amr bin 'Auf. The Prophet went to them along with some of his companions in order to make peace between them. The time for the prayer became due but the Prophet did not turn up; Bilal pronounced the Adhan (i.e. call) for the prayer but the Prophet did not turn up, so Bilal went to Abu Bakr and said, "The time for the prayer is due and the Prophet is detained, would you lead the people in the prayer?" ..

Abu Bakr replied, "Yes, you wish." So, Bilal pronounced the Iqama of the prayer and Abu Bakr went ahead (to lead the prayer), but the Prophet came walking among the rows till he joined the first row. The people started clapping and they clapped too much, and Abu Bakr used not to look hither and thither in the prayer. However, he turned round and saw the Prophet standing behind him. The Prophet beckoned him with his hand to keep on praying where he was. Abu Bakr raised his hand and praised Allah and then retreated till he came in the (first) row, and the Prophet went ahead and lead the people in the prayer. When the Prophet finished the prayer, he turned towards the people and said, "O people! When something happens to you during the prayer, you start clapping. Really clapping is (permissible) for women only. If something happens to one of you in his prayer, he should say:'Subhan Allah',(Glorified be Allah), for whoever hears him (saying so) will direct his attention towards him. O Abu Bakr! What prevented you from leading the people in the prayer when I beckoned to you (to continue)?" Abu Bakr replied, "It did not befit the son of Abu Quhafa to lead the prayer in front of the Prophet.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 3, Book 49, Number 855

“turn back the hands of time”

Since: Apr 10

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#27
Jun 20, 2013
 
My Point is: manners are not developed in a vacuum, human beings are dynamic creatures and many things take part in shaping our personalities, behaviours, manners,etc. We canīt talk about manners without also talking about the Environments(cultural, economic, psychological,religious etc) in which they occur and how we relate to it/deal with it. Thatīs why I Think religion alone is insufficient to explain "Somali manners".

Since: Apr 13

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#28
Jun 20, 2013
 
INSEARCH_OF wrote:
<quoted text>
The moralizing akhlaaq discussion is already being had in the community and it only serves as an ego booster for the moralizing hypocrites who destroy our society and corrupt our youth.
Hereīs an example of akhlaaq preaching and how miserable it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Watch the whole piece, and pay attention to a young caller at around 32:33, and the moralizing response she recieves to a very serious question.
It is purely disgusting. All they did was complain and exchange stories. Not once did they talk about coming up with a solution to solve this problem. This was just shaming not progressive thinking. This dust not move us forward as a community at all.

Did you see the part where he quotes the Somali saying about how a daughter is like her mother and says that is the daughter really to blame if the mother is doing it too? So my question is, is the daughter to blame if the father is doing it too? Unbelievable! Does she not have a brain to think for herself. why play the blame game. It has no end.

Shiisha was introduced to the Somali community through Arabs. Arabs are big on shiisha. They act like only girls do this, if they go to the shiisha spot I bet you there are more guys. All Somalis care about is keeping girls pure and preserved, while the guys cause chaos. If all our boys are corrupted, who will we marry? Therefor, they should care about their future too. I swear Somalis are a step away from honor killing.

"Watch the whole piece, and pay attention to a young caller at around 32:33, and the moralizing response she recieves to a very serious question."

He totally dismissed her question and even waved his hand as to say "go away." Then the next guy comes on talking about how wrong the girl's opinion is. She seemed to piss off the men. I really think she was on to Something big but they don't want to admit it because men never do anything wrong.

Since: Apr 13

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#29
Jun 20, 2013
 
INSEARCH_OF wrote:
My Point is: manners are not developed in a vacuum, human beings are dynamic creatures and many things take part in shaping our personalities, behaviours, manners,etc. We canīt talk about manners without also talking about the Environments(cultural, economic, psychological,religious etc) in which they occur and how we relate to it/deal with it. Thatīs why I Think religion alone is insufficient to explain "Somali manners".
That makes sense. I agree with that a 100%.
I can't believe I didn't think about the other aspects that effect this issue.
I should know this. The lost of Al-Andalus (muslim Spain), was because the sheikhs/leaders were too busy talking about fiqh and other Islamic things and ignored the social situation. there is nothing wrong with what they did, but they lost sight of their surroundings. And down came Al-Andalus. We have to learn from history so we don't make the same mistakes twice.

Since: Apr 13

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#30
Jun 20, 2013
 
"If something happens to one of you in his prayer, he should say:'Subhan Allah',(Glorified be Allah), for whoever hears him (saying so) will direct his attention towards him."

I didn't know that. interesting. I never heard of this hadith before. I learned something new today. What book did you get it from?

“turn back the hands of time”

Since: Apr 10

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#31
Jun 20, 2013
 
peace n shaax123 wrote:
<quoted text>
It is purely disgusting. All they did was complain and exchange stories. Not once did they talk about coming up with a solution to solve this problem. This was just shaming not progressive thinking. This dust not move us forward as a community at all.
Did you see the part where he quotes the Somali saying about how a daughter is like her mother and says that is the daughter really to blame if the mother is doing it too? So my question is, is the daughter to blame if the father is doing it too? Unbelievable! Does she not have a brain to think for herself. why play the blame game. It has no end.
Shiisha was introduced to the Somali community through Arabs. Arabs are big on shiisha. They act like only girls do this, if they go to the shiisha spot I bet you there are more guys. All Somalis care about is keeping girls pure and preserved, while the guys cause chaos. If all our boys are corrupted, who will we marry? Therefor, they should care about their future too. I swear Somalis are a step away from honor killing.
"Watch the whole piece, and pay attention to a young caller at around 32:33, and the moralizing response she recieves to a very serious question."
He totally dismissed her question and even waved his hand as to say "go away." Then the next guy comes on talking about how wrong the girl's opinion is. She seemed to piss off the men. I really think she was on to Something big but they don't want to admit it because men never do anything wrong.
Itīs an excruciating overdose in moralizing gibberish.Itīs sad that those idiots have such a big platform. Also the girl in the end who raised a very legitimate Point was the religious type, but that didnīt stop moralizing male hypocrites from silencing her and her very legitimate and highly relevant concern.Yeah Shisha or Tobacco consumption in general is not a girl problem but a societal problem.

This the problem with moralizing...it doesnīt deal with real facts, it only serves to appease male egos..

Since: Apr 13

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#32
Jun 20, 2013
 
INSEARCH_OF wrote:
<quoted text>
Itīs an excruciating overdose in moralizing gibberish.Itīs sad that those idiots have such a big platform. Also the girl in the end who raised a very legitimate Point was the religious type, but that didnīt stop moralizing male hypocrites from silencing her and her very legitimate and highly relevant concern.Yeah Shisha or Tobacco consumption in general is not a girl problem but a societal problem.
This the problem with moralizing...it doesnīt deal with real facts, it only serves to appease male egos..
Why is that though?

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