Skanderbeg's Serbian connections. Did...

Skanderbeg's Serbian connections. Did you know ?

Created by The_Baron on Nov 29, 2011

192 votes

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I know

Can you believe it ?

pravednik_medju_ narodima

Ljubljana, Slovenia

#1178 Dec 6, 2013
Noble wrote:
<quoted text>
"Posle bitke na Kosovu veliki deo Srba je rasturen. Jedan deo je završio u današnjoj Albaniji i tu dolazi do masovne islamizacije. Sinovi i unuci onih Srba koji su se borili na Kosovu zauvek su sa&#269;uvali uspomene na o&#269;eve i dedove - objašnjava &#272;ureti&#263; i dodaje da je u svim relevantnim istorijskim izvorima zabeleženo da je više od osamdeset odsto sadašnjih Šiptara srpskog porekla, odnosno da su oni ti islamizovani Srbi posle kosovskog boja"
Tih islamizovani Srbi sto kaze tzvan Profesor Veselin &#272;ureti&#263; nisu islamizovani vec to su Albanci koji su primili islam,sa time se promenuo to demografsko naselenia Kosova ( znaci promenio se nista vec islamizovani Albanci tad su postali vecine dokle albanci koji su pripali Skizmazticke Crkve presli u srbstvo, a o Milos Obilica odavno se uci po nasim skolama da je Albanac, i to pre Kosovski rat 99' pa da ne kazete kao demek nemci podarali su nama istoriju,itd ( iako sumnja je da Milos uopsce postojao). Ma da jeste srbi i albanci ratovali u istu stranu prije i bili su dva prijatelske nastronih naroda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanisation
Noble

Kumanovo, Macedonia

#1179 Dec 7, 2013
pravednik_medju_narodima wrote:
That's so LAME, just because you people are saying that Hashim Thaci has Montenegrin or Serbian origin (Danilovic surname ) which I'm not ruling out that possibility because of his facial features, it don't mean that all or majority of Albanians have Serbian origin, Albanians have Slavic genes too, I'm not denying that but that happened with Slavic migration during 6-7th century as Serbs too have Illyrian genes as well as Slavic that was in between 7th up to 12-13th century, but not when the concept of nations where founded (during 19th century) or in very small percentage when nations where founded that's so rare, nevertheless why don't u mention Perisic (Berisha), Gashic( Gashi) or even Dacic ( Daci albanian tribe, haha) "serbinized albanians" if I may call them like that, that's what happened in Balkan its history.
However I don't believe in Serbian-Albanian reconciliation as long as we have 2 different concepts regarding territory belongings, haha!
pravednik_medju_ narodima

Ljubljana, Slovenia

#1180 Dec 7, 2013
Noble wrote:
<quoted text>
That's so LAME, just because you people are saying that Hashim Thaci has Montenegrin or Serbian origin (Danilovic surname ) which I'm not ruling out that possibility because of his facial features, it don't mean that all or majority of Albanians have Serbian origin, Albanians have Slavic genes too, I'm not denying that but that happened with Slavic migration during 6-7th century as Serbs too have Illyrian genes as well as Slavic that was in between 7th up to 12-13th century, but not when the concept of nations where founded (during 19th century) or in very small percentage when nations where founded that's so rare, nevertheless why don't u mention Perisic (Berisha), Gashic( Gashi) or even Dacic ( Daci albanian tribe, haha) "serbinized albanians" if I may call them like that, that's what happened in Balkan its history.
However I don't believe in Serbian-Albanian reconciliation as long as we have 2 different concepts regarding territory belongings, haha!
Stop spreading your albanian BS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs_of_Kosovo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanisation

The_Baron

“A man's character is his fate”

Since: Jun 10

Heraclitus

#1181 Dec 8, 2013
Noble wrote:
<quoted text>
Names are relatives especially if you look upon names of medieval era, by that time Albanians had slavic- serbian names bcause we were occupied by them, I give an example of e village "Stanec" Preshevo, and a member of its village now lives in Skopje, and he said the person that has founded the village was named Stanko and he had sons..., grandsons, after that they accepted islam, but they where all along Albanians, that's the case with Milos Obilic, just because his name is Milos it dont mean he was a serb, and yes there were inter marriages before
Are there any Orthodox Albanians in Macedonia ?
anti_sotona

Ljubljana, Slovenia

#1182 Dec 8, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
<quoted text>
Are there any Orthodox Albanians in Macedonia ?
Christian albanians do not exist
Noble

Kumanovo, Macedonia

#1183 Dec 9, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
<quoted text>
Are there any Orthodox Albanians in Macedonia ?
Small minority, but yes there are orthodox Albanians as recently Branko Manojloski from village Reka identifies himself as Albanian orthodox his parents when were married they married with Albanian Flag, Josif Bageri Albanian Orthodox (1868 - 1915) famous Albanian poet from Reka (Gostivar,Macedonia), but majority of them are assimilated!!
Personally I feel Albanian orthodox, Muslim and Catholics as one, and I do not make distinction!
Pozdrav
anti_sotona

Ljubljana, Slovenia

#1184 Dec 9, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
Albanian site, scroll down and look on the right side - coat of arms of Skanderbeg, last name written Castriotich.
http://albca.com/albania/kruje.html
:)))))))

Since: Jul 13

Genova, Italy

#1185 Dec 9, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
Oliver Jens Schmitt, professor of Vienna university, proves that Skanderbeg's mother Vojsava was Serbian princess :
__________
"His book “Skanderbeg. Der neue Alexander auf dem Balkan”, a critical biography of George Castrioti-Skanderbeg, caused a hot debate in Albania.
A Swiss national daily newspaper Tagesanzeiger published a Schmitt's interview given to Enver Robelli in Tirana on February 25, 2009, in which it is emphasized that Schmitt claims that Skanderbeg's mother Vojsava was Serbian, member of Brankovici and that Kastrioti surname is probably derived from the Greek word.
He was accused of committing sacrilege and sullying the Albanian national honor. The translator who translated his book from German to Albanian was accused for treason."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Schmitt
Schmidt did not evidence the Kastrioti's mother,without possibility to explain it.
In fact,he did not add nothing more than other authors....
What he wrote,were some controversial hypothesis on medieval Albania,for some marketing,nothing more
Noble

Kumanovo, Macedonia

#1186 Dec 11, 2013
Skenderbeg was albanian, whether his mother was serbian or not, is irrelevant !!
George_So

Ljubljana, Slovenia

#1187 Dec 11, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
Original Skenderbeg's letters written in Serbian language, cyrillic:
from 1450 :
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9815/scand...
With Skenderbeg cyrillic signature
__________
from 1459 :
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9404/scand...
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2467/scand...
Letter are preserved in the Archive of Vienna.
Scanned from the book of Slovenian Franc Miklosic.
Very interesting indeed

The_Baron

“A man's character is his fate”

Since: Jun 10

Heraclitus

#1188 Dec 15, 2013
Noble wrote:
<quoted text>
Small minority, but yes there are orthodox Albanians as recently Branko Manojloski from village Reka identifies himself as Albanian orthodox his parents when were married they married with Albanian Flag, Josif Bageri Albanian Orthodox (1868 - 1915) famous Albanian poet from Reka (Gostivar,Macedonia), but majority of them are assimilated!!
Personally I feel Albanian orthodox, Muslim and Catholics as one, and I do not make distinction!
Pozdrav
I have read about that Branko Manojlovski. It is very interested i admit...I have read about that Matija Matevski guy too....http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Mateja_Matevski....but if they were Albanians why they have Macedonian names and surnames ?....if they were small minority of Orthodox Albanians, how come they didn't assimilated in to Albanian muslims who are in large numbers there, but they rather decided to go in to Macedonians...or simple why they didn't go like atheists...
interesting....

Pozdrav i tebi..

The_Baron

“A man's character is his fate”

Since: Jun 10

Heraclitus

#1189 Dec 15, 2013
Teddy_ wrote:
<quoted text>Schmidt did not evidence the Kastrioti's mother,without possibility to explain it.
In fact,he did not add nothing more than other authors....
What he wrote,were some controversial hypothesis on medieval Albania,for some marketing,nothing more
It depends what would you except as an evidence...today no body can prove something else either...

Teddy look at this site...albanian medieval noble families, their names and marriage connections........especially look for the family of Progon (first albanian feudal state), than look for the family of Thopia, Arianiti and of course Kastriot, and see the names and surnames in RED.....almost majority of them are Serbian...

...tell me what you think...

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALBANIA.htm#_...
Noble

Skopje, Macedonia

#1190 Dec 16, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
<quoted text>
I have read about that Branko Manojlovski. It is very interested i admit...I have read about that Matija Matevski guy too....http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Mateja_Matevski....but if they were Albanians why they have Macedonian names and surnames ?....if they were small minority of Orthodox Albanians, how come they didn't assimilated in to Albanian muslims who are in large numbers there, but they rather decided to go in to Macedonians...or simple why they didn't go like atheists...
interesting....
Pozdrav i tebi..
They were assimilated because of the oppression by the state of Jugoslavia (Kraljevina), which registered them as Serbs, Branko in an interview said that when he went to change Manojlovich(surname that he got at the begining) into Manojli (i- Albanian suffix)they asked him why, since he's supposedly a Serb, after that he got that ski, he also said that those times were when brothers and cousins which belonged to different religions (orthodox, muslims) were being separated cuz of the mainstraim opinion : muslim as turks, orthodox as SHKIJE - slav or serb, which durated from the end of Balkan war till they finally assimilated, eventhough they are same blood albanians,as for Matevski tilll the age of 15 he only wrote albanian lyrics, and if you ask me why he had slavic name as Branko I explained in some previous post, back then albanians either had slavic orthodox names or muslim, not that we didn't have albanian catholic names like Gjon, Gjergj, Pal, but due to the other reigns (rules) we applied those names. Pozdrav

Since: Jul 13

Genova, Italy

#1191 Dec 16, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
<quoted text>
It depends what would you except as an evidence...today no body can prove something else either...
Teddy look at this site...albanian medieval noble families, their names and marriage connections........especially look for the family of Progon (first albanian feudal state), than look for the family of Thopia, Arianiti and of course Kastriot, and see the names and surnames in RED.....almost majority of them are Serbian...
...tell me what you think...
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALBANIA.htm#_...
The discernment,is what everyone should expect from a historian, find the historical facts, but also to interpret is an arduous task. Schmidt in most of his work did not neither one, nor the other

Schmidt claims the Kastrioti's mother in close relation with Mara Brankovic.According to Schmidt,she has helped and contributed for Skanderbeg to plot on the murder of Sultan's son Aladin,to revenge so the "killing" of his father...
No Ottoman document has charged Scanderbeg for the killing of the Ottoman heir of throne......
Schmidt doesn't give a shred of indication,what he gives is only hypothesis..

As we know, there is no history credible with hypothesis........

The_Baron

“A man's character is his fate”

Since: Jun 10

Heraclitus

#1192 Dec 16, 2013
Teddy_ wrote:
<quoted text>
The discernment,is what everyone should expect from a historian, find the historical facts, but also to interpret is an arduous task. Schmidt in most of his work did not neither one, nor the other
Schmidt claims the Kastrioti's mother in close relation with Mara Brankovic.According to Schmidt,she has helped and contributed for Skanderbeg to plot on the murder of Sultan's son Aladin,to revenge so the "killing" of his father...
No Ottoman document has charged Scanderbeg for the killing of the Ottoman heir of throne......
Schmidt doesn't give a shred of indication,what he gives is only hypothesis..
As we know, there is no history credible with hypothesis........
Teddy look at this site...albanian medieval noble families, their names and marriage connections........especially look for the family of Progon (first albanian feudal state), than look for the family of Thopia, Arianiti and of course Kastriot, and see the names and surnames in RED, as their marriages.....almost majority of them are Serbian...

...tell me what you think...

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALBANIA.htm#_...

Since: Jul 13

Genova, Italy

#1193 Dec 17, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
<quoted text>
Teddy look at this site...albanian medieval noble families, their names and marriage connections........especially look for the family of Progon (first albanian feudal state), than look for the family of Thopia, Arianiti and of course Kastriot, and see the names and surnames in RED, as their marriages.....almost majority of them are Serbian...
...tell me what you think...
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALBANIA.htm#_...
I've more or less answered your question in the message 1171. I've written about mixed marriages in general, which was not a Serbian-Albanian custom, but it covered the whole Europe....

The_Baron

“A man's character is his fate”

Since: Jun 10

Heraclitus

#1194 Dec 18, 2013
Teddy_ wrote:
<quoted text>I've more or less answered your question in the message 1171. I've written about mixed marriages in general, which was not a Serbian-Albanian custom, but it covered the whole Europe....
You are right 100 %, i have no objection. Still, what coming in front of my eyes is that majority of the names in RED are Serbian,(pay attention on the names in red), which means that majority of Albanian lords Thopia, Arianiti, Kastrioti or their sons and daughters had Serbian marriages.

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALBANIA.htm#_...

Also in the first Albanian state founded by Progon, his son Dimitrije Progonovic married Kominia of Serbia daughter of Stefan Grand Župan of Serbia, and actually after his death the ruling of FIRST Albanian feudal state was left to Komnena of Serbia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komnena_Nemanjic

All that is quite interesting considering the time of today.

Since: Jul 13

Genova, Italy

#1195 Dec 18, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right 100 %, i have no objection. Still, what coming in front of my eyes is that majority of the names in RED are Serbian,(pay attention on the names in red), which means that majority of Albanian lords Thopia, Arianiti, Kastrioti or their sons and daughters had Serbian marriages.
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALBANIA.htm#_...
Also in the first Albanian state founded by Progon, his son Dimitrije Progonovic married Kominia of Serbia daughter of Stefan Grand Župan of Serbia, and actually after his death the ruling of FIRST Albanian feudal state was left to Komnena of Serbia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komnena_Nemanjic
All that is quite interesting considering the time of today.
I urge you to consider doubtful as Serbs, Djurasic, Balsic,as a possible Albanian ancestry...
Principalty of Arbanon was also linked with the Byzantines in some circumstances....

People acted with no nationalism and patriotism,because that time did not exist not the one, nor other,so what was important? was the power, the religion as a clear awareness of belonging..

Today is very different...there's an outline of all..........

Since: Jul 13

Genova, Italy

#1196 Dec 18, 2013
The_Baron wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right 100 %, i have no objection. Still, what coming in front of my eyes is that majority of the names in RED are Serbian,(pay attention on the names in red), which means that majority of Albanian lords Thopia, Arianiti, Kastrioti or their sons and daughters had Serbian marriages.
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALBANIA.htm#_...
Also in the first Albanian state founded by Progon, his son Dimitrije Progonovic married Kominia of Serbia daughter of Stefan Grand Župan of Serbia, and actually after his death the ruling of FIRST Albanian feudal state was left to Komnena of Serbia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komnena_Nemanjic
All that is quite interesting considering the time of today.
It si clear that the Albanian principalities were surrounded by Serbs and Despotate of Epirus
So,with them would come the inter-marriages relations....

The_Baron

“A man's character is his fate”

Since: Jun 10

Heraclitus

#1197 Dec 19, 2013
We saw Arbanon, first Albanian feudal state. Its ruler was Progon (which is Slavic pagan name). His sons were called Progonovic. And we saw that wife of Dimitrije Progonovic was Komnena NEMANJIC, who had main power in the state after the death of her husband.

Lets see now the other Albanian feudal state, PRINCIPALITY OF VALONA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_...
__________

was a medieval principality in Albania, roughly encompassing the territories of the modern counties of Vlorë(Valona), Fier, and Berat. Initially a vassal of the Serbian Empire.

The rulers were:

1. Despot John Komnenos Asen
was the ruler of the Principality of Valona from circa 1345 to 1363, initially as a Serbian vassal and after 1355 as a largely independent lord. Descended from high-ranking Bulgarian nobility. Perhaps in search of better opportunities, he emigrated to Serbia, where his sister was married to Car Dusan. There, he was granted the title of despot by Stephen Dušan, who placed him in charge of his territories in modern south Albania.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Komnenos_As...

2. Balša II Balšic
was the lord of Zeta from 1378 to 1385. He managed to expand his borders towards the south. Balša II married Komnina (Kanina), a daughter of John Komnenos Asen. As a dowry, Balsha gained the cities of Berat and Kanina.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bal ša_II

3. Rudjina Balsic
Balša's widow, Komnina, and their daughter Rudjina, later took control of Balša's territory in southern Albania to protect it from Turkish invaders.
http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php...

4. Mrkša Žarkovic
However, Rudjina married Mrkša Žarkovic.Žarkovic succeeded the duchy, calling himself Lord of Valona. He reigned over the city until his death in 1414. Rudjina took over her late husband's position and ruled Valona until 1417, when it, as well as its citadel in Kanina, was seized by the Turks. Rudjina fled Albania and sought asylum in Zeta

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