The return of Tito's train: From Serbia to Montenegro - a track to the past

Jul 13, 2013 Full story: The Independent 943

President Josip Broz Tito's Blue Train, scene of the dictator's famed parties with world leaders, is back in service as a tourist attraction Could there ever have been a more extravagant mobile assembly of the world's nastiest dictators? Here, plushly seated on the 28 red leather chairs around the long conference table in this sumptuous railway ... (more)

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Vladimir Nazor

Adelaide, Australia

#206 Jul 18, 2013
diroguevara wrote:
For Bosnians Tito is out of question
We love him we adore him lol many of Bosnian cafes, schools etc are named after him, yet this has nothing to do with Pavelic..Ante Pavelic was defending Croatian and Bosnian people against cetnik serbs..Pavelic did not start that war cetnik serbs did..Pavelic is not my enemy draza mihajlovic,karadzic,mladic are enemies
Only Tito partizani & Bosanski Handschar & Hrvatski Domobran (regular Croatian army) protected the Bosnians, whilst Pavelic permitted the transfer to Jasenovac of 12,000 Bosanski Muslimani, never to be seen again alive.!

Forget about Pavelic he was a traitor to the Dalmatians & other Croats. He gave Dalmatian lands & islands to Mussolini . He gave Medjumor & Baranja to Horthy & Istria remained under Mussolini without Pavelic makeing a fuss about it.

Pavelic's Ustasi Para-military & Ustasi officials signed Military Logistics & Humanitarian agreements with Draza Mihailovic's Cetniks

There are photo's & Documents to prove it.

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#207 Jul 18, 2013
Dalmatin stop your propaganda.

Baranya was not Croatian. Biggest ethnic groups in Baranya at the time in this order:
Hungarians
Germans
Serbs
Croats

Even so called "Beli Manastir" had Hungarian majority at the time, with barely any Croats in it.

Pavelic did not give it to us, we reclaimed it from Yugoslavia.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#208 Jul 18, 2013
Vladimir Nazor wrote:
<quoted text>Evil, yes as in Stalin's rule, Pol Pots rule, North Korean leadership's rule maybe even Mao's rule but not with Tito.
Leaders like Tito, Castro, Chavez made a success of Socialism for their people. Maybe not perfect success but never the less the average people respected them for trying to improve living standards amongst the less advantaged.
Yes & i do agree with you on one point , that Capitalism benefits the upper class in businesses in terms of wages, salaries etc. There is no accountability with buisness managers & CEO wages but they expect their workers to take on all the pay cuts & other sacrifices .
Interesting, but you have to remember that there was also no accounting for Tito and his top cats who had the very best of everything whilst everyone else, although guaranteed work, could not buy anything unless on credit. It wasn't something that you could save and build upon. At its best it was more of a mediocre status quo of sorts. Hence the reason so many went to work in Austria and other parts of western Europe.

I agree with you and TRM on the point that capitalism is not a perfect system, with its own inherent problems, short comings, immorality and exploitation where those at the bottom of the barrel are expected to make the 'salary sacrifices', that is true, but at this time in human history it is the best system that we have.

When it comes to Tito I am retrospect and philosophical about that period of history. I certainly don't relate to the extremes presented by the two Croatian debating factions here. Personally, I am surprised at the level of emotion that this subject generated. To me it's like people getting fits about the short comings of the Napoleanic era with pro Bonaparte and anti Bonaparte types spitting blood.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#209 Jul 18, 2013
Dalmatino wrote:
<quoted text>
Migrate to Australia, it's deepest darkest winter here right now and it's a mild 18C. Most of the year is much warmer with long hot summers and the best looking scantily clad women in the world, it's paradise .... 8C s for eskimos ^_^
Hey Dalmo, flash them pearly whites and give us all an Ustasa smile.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_yi3ZBHEy8jc/TBuUtpC...

Errh.....maybe not.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#210 Jul 18, 2013
Not in Melbourne. Dreary to mild winter for about seven or so months, the rest changes by the week.

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#211 Jul 18, 2013
Strahd wrote:
<quoted text>
Whoa, tone it down a bit Terminator.
Terminator is nothing.

Arnold Schwarzenegger himself was inspired by Clint Eastwood's character in Dirty Harry.
Vladimir Nazor

Australia

#212 Jul 18, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
Dalmatin stop your propaganda.
Baranya was not Croatian. Biggest ethnic groups in Baranya at the time in this order:
Hungarians
Germans
Serbs
Croats
Even so called "Beli Manastir" had Hungarian majority at the time, with barely any Croats in it.
Pavelic did not give it to us, we reclaimed it from Yugoslavia.
O.K. you reclaimed it, if it ever did belong to Hungary in the first place ?

Point is Pavelic never made a fuss about it, being such a "Greater Croatia" nationalist that he supposedly was.

No propaganda on my part. We just have a slightly different view !

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#213 Jul 18, 2013
Vladimir Nazor wrote:
<quoted text> O.K. you reclaimed it, if it ever did belong to Hungary in the first place ?
Yes off course it did!

Baranya county was some of the first counties in the Kingdom of Hungary! It was established in the 11th century, and Stephen I of Hungary (first King of Hungary) founded an episcopal seat here!

After WW1, a part of Baranya was sliced off and given to Yugoslavia (today part of Croatia), while the rest remained in Hungary.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baranya_County_ (former)
Vladimir Nazor wrote:
Point is Pavelic never made a fuss about it, being such a "Greater Croatia" nationalist that he supposedly was.
Beggars cant be chosers. It was probably enough for Pavelic that Croatia was no longer part of Yugoslavia.
Vladimir Nazor

Woronora, Australia

#214 Jul 18, 2013
Strahd wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting, but you have to remember that there was also no accounting for Tito and his top cats who had the very best of everything whilst everyone else, although guaranteed work, could not buy anything unless on credit. It wasn't something that you could save and build upon. At its best it was more of a mediocre status quo of sorts. Hence the reason so many went to work in Austria and other parts of western Europe.
I agree with you and TRM on the point that capitalism is not a perfect system, with its own inherent problems, short comings, immorality and exploitation where those at the bottom of the barrel are expected to make the 'salary sacrifices', that is true, but at this time in human history it is the best system that we have.
When it comes to Tito I am retrospect and philosophical about that period of history. I certainly don't relate to the extremes presented by the two Croatian debating factions here. Personally, I am surprised at the level of emotion that this subject generated. To me it's like people getting fits about the short comings of the Napoleanic era with pro Bonaparte and anti Bonaparte types spitting blood.
"No accountability for Tito & His Top Cats" agreed & well deserved

He didn't deserve to be held accountable for anything in my opinion & many others opinions .!

He grew up as a child dressed in rags, shoeless & forced to beg for money in his own neighborhood, in the streets of Kumrovec , Zagorje.
He fought bravely in the Austro-Hungarian army in WW1 then captured held P.O.W. for a number of years in Siberia , made it back home then got thrown into prison by Serb Authorities. Then again WW2 he led a dangerous harrowing anti-fascist war of liberation against superior German forces.

He was a WW1 & WW2 hero, one of Europe's Greatest resistance leaders for the Allie's .

He deserved all the pomp & privileges that came with his national & international celebrity status.

That's my humble opinion & that of the majority of his people who looked up to him in a state of ore & national pride
Vladimir Nazor

Woronora, Australia

#215 Jul 18, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes off course it did!
Baranya county was some of the first counties in the Kingdom of Hungary! It was established in the 11th century, and Stephen I of Hungary (first King of Hungary) founded an episcopal seat here!
After WW1, a part of Baranya was sliced off and given to Yugoslavia (today part of Croatia), while the rest remained in Hungary.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baranya_County_ (former)
<quoted text>
Beggars cant be chosers. It was probably enough for Pavelic that Croatia was no longer part of Yugoslavia.
God !- "Beggers cant be Choosers" he says. Pavelic Tough Man Begging , don't no whether i should Cry or Laugh at that one.

Better to laugh i guess
Vladimir Nazor

Woronora, Australia

#216 Jul 18, 2013
Spelled : Don't Know, NOT Don't No.

An English spelling tip for you Madjar ! from my own post.!
Dalmatino

Australia

#217 Jul 18, 2013
Strahd wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Dalmo, flash them pearly whites and give us all an Ustasa smile.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_yi3ZBHEy8jc/TBuUtpC...
Errh.....maybe not.
Why don't you go and fck your tukic baba
Vladimir Nazor

Adelaide, Australia

#218 Jul 18, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes off course it did!
Baranya county was some of the first counties in the Kingdom of Hungary! It was established in the 11th century, and Stephen I of Hungary (first King of Hungary) founded an episcopal seat here!
After WW1, a part of Baranya was sliced off and given to Yugoslavia (today part of Croatia), while the rest remained in Hungary.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baranya_County_ (former)
<quoted text>
Beggars cant be chosers. It was probably enough for Pavelic that Croatia was no longer part of Yugoslavia.
It is true though.!

Pavelic did remain a begger for the last 30 years of his life in one capacity or another.!
VojnikCro

Maidenhead, UK

#219 Jul 18, 2013
Strahd wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Dalmo, flash them pearly whites and give us all an Ustasa smile.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_yi3ZBHEy8jc/TBuUtpC...
Errh.....maybe not.
And you say we Croats start shit ???? Hahahahaha then you cry when we insult Serbs

Ok then Strahd

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#220 Jul 18, 2013
Vladimir Nazor wrote:
<quoted text>God !- "Beggers cant be Choosers" he says. Pavelic Tough Man Begging , don't no whether i should Cry or Laugh at that one.
Better to laugh i guess
What? You think Pavelic the "Mayor of Zagreb" was in any position to make demands to his neigbours lol?

Look Dalmatin, unlike most hardcore Socialists, you don't seem like a total moron. I don't think you are a bad person, but you are just misled by a bad ideology and you chase after ghosts of a former dictator of a country which no longer exists.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#221 Jul 18, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
<quoted text>
What? You think Pavelic the "Mayor of Zagreb" was in any position to make demands to his neigbours lol?
Look Dalmatin, unlike most hardcore Socialists, you don't seem like a total moron. I don't think you are a bad person, but you are just misled by a bad ideology and you chase after ghosts of a former dictator of a country which no longer exists.
Who says the ideology was bad, the attempt by greedy politicians to disguise their dictatorships by calling them socialism was bad but that isn't socialism. Its like saying Christianity is bad, Jesus is bad because we saw how the Catholic church exploited it to make money and rob people.

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#222 Jul 18, 2013
Koraly wrote:
<quoted text>
Who says the ideology was bad, the attempt by greedy politicians to disguise their dictatorships by calling them socialism was bad but that isn't socialism. Its like saying Christianity is bad, Jesus is bad because we saw how the Catholic church exploited it to make money and rob people.
Well why dont we use your logic for Nazi Germany?

Vladimir Nazor

Adelaide, Australia

#223 Jul 18, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
<quoted text>
What? You think Pavelic the "Mayor of Zagreb" was in any position to make demands to his neigbours lol?
Look Dalmatin, unlike most hardcore Socialists, you don't seem like a total moron. I don't think you are a bad person, but you are just misled by a bad ideology and you chase after ghosts of a former dictator of a country which no longer exists.
I get youre point Madjar, believe me.

Pavelic though acted Tough & Unshakeable yet in reality as you have described he was insignificant.!

My point is Madjar & try & understand this : It is because of his bravado he was acting, in the process he took Croatia for a ride on the coat tails of Hitlers Third Reich & Mussolini's Neo-Roman Empire.

To Pavelic what the average Croatian citizen wanted didn't matter to him, it was what his sponsors Hitler & Mussolini wanted that mattered to Pavelic.

Pavelic made too many sacrifices at the expense of all Croatia's citizens & not to mention the crimes against humanity that his Ustasi regieme commited in his 4 years of nominal power.!

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#224 Jul 18, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
<quoted text>
Terminator is nothing.
Arnold Schwarzenegger himself was inspired by Clint Eastwood's character in Dirty Harry.
Nah, Schwarzenegger was actually inspired by Yul Brynner's robot gunslinger in the 70's sci fi flick called Westworld when trying to get into type for the Terminator role. Said it himself.
Vladimir Nazor

Sydney, Australia

#225 Jul 18, 2013
Westworld was a great movie so was Futureworld the sequel also starring Yul Brynner.

I watched Westworld last year sometime & many times before but cant remember ever watching Futureworld.

I will get to it, watching Futureworld, maybe today.

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