Battle of Nicopolis: Serbs helped the...

Battle of Nicopolis: Serbs helped the Turks beat Christians

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Free Vojvodina

Exton, PA

#1 Sep 28, 2008
serbian vassalage

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_...
Disastrous finale to what was in effect a crusade launched against the Ottoman Turks. The crusader army was based on the Hungarian army of Sigismund of Luxembourg, with a large French element led by some of the greatest French nobles, including Marshal Boucicautalong with German, Polish, Italian and English elements. The army may have reached sixty thousand men, a vast army for the time, and was almost entirely cavalry. Sigismund crossed into Ottoman territory, and laid siege to Nicopolis, a large Bulgarian city. The Ottoman sultan, Bajazet, was not rushed into reaction, and waited for his entire army to muster before responding. The Ottoman army formed up some four miles from the Crusader camp, and invited attack.

Sigismund proposed to use his own horse-archers as the first attack, with the Crusader cavalry in reserve to deliver the decisive blow against the Ottoman lines. However, the French leaders refused any role that denied them the first attack, and leaving the Hungarian army behind, they charged the centre of the Ottoman line, where they thought there was a cavalry force for them to attack. However, once the French knights came within range, the Ottoman horse-archers let loose a volley, then pulled aside to reveal well dug-in archers behinds rows of wooden stakes.

Despite taking heavy casualties, the French broke through to the archers, and were also able to hold off an attack by Ottoman cavalry, before finally being beaten by the arrival of yet another cavalry force. The French took severe casualties, including Philip, Count of Bar, and Jean de Vienne, the Admiral, although many more were captured.

The Hungarian royal army, meanwhile, was moving towards the battle. Sigismund's force was engaged with the Ottoman cavalry, when it was ambushed by the Serbian allies of Sultan Bajazet, led by Stephen Lazarevitch, who had retained his lands at the price of becoming an Ottoman vassal. This attack by the Serbs broke the Hungarians, and when Sigismunds banner was cast down, the army dissolved.

Sigismund himself managed to escape downstream to Constantinople, but the Sultan, apparently enraged by earlier massacres of Turkish prisoners, killed all but a dozen of his French captives. Very few survivors of the battle returned to the west. Those that did blamed the Hungarians for the defeat, although the appalling behaviour of the French knights was in reality a major cause of the disaster. Fortunately for Europe, Bajazet was more concerned with his lands in Turkey, where he had established himself as ruler, before meeting his match in Timur, who defeated and captured him in 1402.
Professor

Beograd, Serbia

#2 Sep 28, 2008
Free Vojvodina wrote:
serbian vassalage
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_...
Disastrous finale to what was in effect a crusade launched against the Ottoman Turks. The crusader army was based on the Hungarian army of Sigismund of Luxembourg, with a large French element led by some of the greatest French nobles, including Marshal Boucicautalong with German, Polish, Italian and English elements. The army may have reached sixty thousand men, a vast army for the time, and was almost entirely cavalry. Sigismund crossed into Ottoman territory, and laid siege to Nicopolis, a large Bulgarian city. The Ottoman sultan, Bajazet, was not rushed into reaction, and waited for his entire army to muster before responding. The Ottoman army formed up some four miles from the Crusader camp, and invited attack.
Sigismund proposed to use his own horse-archers as the first attack, with the Crusader cavalry in reserve to deliver the decisive blow against the Ottoman lines. However, the French leaders refused any role that denied them the first attack, and leaving the Hungarian army behind, they charged the centre of the Ottoman line, where they thought there was a cavalry force for them to attack. However, once the French knights came within range, the Ottoman horse-archers let loose a volley, then pulled aside to reveal well dug-in archers behinds rows of wooden stakes.
Despite taking heavy casualties, the French broke through to the archers, and were also able to hold off an attack by Ottoman cavalry, before finally being beaten by the arrival of yet another cavalry force. The French took severe casualties, including Philip, Count of Bar, and Jean de Vienne, the Admiral, although many more were captured.
The Hungarian royal army, meanwhile, was moving towards the battle. Sigismund's force was engaged with the Ottoman cavalry, when it was ambushed by the Serbian allies of Sultan Bajazet, led by Stephen Lazarevitch, who had retained his lands at the price of becoming an Ottoman vassal. This attack by the Serbs broke the Hungarians, and when Sigismunds banner was cast down, the army dissolved.
Sigismund himself managed to escape downstream to Constantinople, but the Sultan, apparently enraged by earlier massacres of Turkish prisoners, killed all but a dozen of his French captives. Very few survivors of the battle returned to the west. Those that did blamed the Hungarians for the defeat, although the appalling behaviour of the French knights was in reality a major cause of the disaster. Fortunately for Europe, Bajazet was more concerned with his lands in Turkey, where he had established himself as ruler, before meeting his match in Timur, who defeated and captured him in 1402.
Interesting. Thank you for spreading the rich culture and history of the Serb people.

You are at least a little self-contradicting though, I can't make out whether you are Serbophobe or Serbophil.:D

“get Synchronized ”

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#3 Sep 28, 2008
Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting. Thank you for spreading the rich culture and history of the Serb people.
You are at least a little self-contradicting though, I can't make out whether you are Serbophobe or Serbophil.:D
what are you? ;)
Professor

Beograd, Serbia

#4 Sep 29, 2008
synCROnize wrote:
<quoted text>what are you? ;)
Sorry?

“get Synchronized ”

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#5 Sep 29, 2008
Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry?
are you Serbophobe or Serbophil. i was mucken around lol
Professor

Beograd, Serbia

#6 Sep 29, 2008
synCROnize wrote:
<quoted text>are you Serbophobe or Serbophil. i was mucken around lol
Neither.
Corpeus Treus

Philadelphia, PA

#7 Oct 13, 2008
Turko Serbs helped Turks take Constantinople too

"Konstantin Mihailovic was a native of Ostrovica, a town difficult to locate for certain but probably identical to the Ostrovica about 40 miles south of Belgrade. His memoirs tell us nothing about his early life. Instead we are introduced to him at the siege of Constantinople in 1453 where he claims to have been present, although this may be a fabrication. He implies that he was one among 1,500 cavalrymen supplied by George Brankovic, the Despot of Serbia, under the requirements of his vassalage to the Turkish Sultan. Konstantin's narrative is somewhat stilted here. He wants to record his involvement in this major historical event, but is also reluctant to admit that he was required to serve on the Turkish side"
Professor

Belgrade, Serbia

#8 Oct 13, 2008
Corpeus Treus wrote:
Turko Serbs helped Turks take Constantinople too
"Konstantin Mihailovic was a native of Ostrovica, a town difficult to locate for certain but probably identical to the Ostrovica about 40 miles south of Belgrade. His memoirs tell us nothing about his early life. Instead we are introduced to him at the siege of Constantinople in 1453 where he claims to have been present, although this may be a fabrication. He implies that he was one among 1,500 cavalrymen supplied by George Brankovic, the Despot of Serbia, under the requirements of his vassalage to the Turkish Sultan. Konstantin's narrative is somewhat stilted here. He wants to record his involvement in this major historical event, but is also reluctant to admit that he was required to serve on the Turkish side"
Ah! The wonderful story of the Constantin the Serb Janissary!

You like it too?

Of course it's not unknown - Ostrovica is right next to Novo Brdo, Kosovo.

“get Synchronized ”

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#9 Oct 13, 2008
Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither.
yes your pro serb
Albano

Philadelphia, PA

#10 Oct 13, 2008
synCROnize wrote:
<quoted text>yes your pro serb
Hey Cro,
don't ever let Servs fool you with 'we fought the Turks.'
Professor

Belgrade, Serbia

#11 Oct 13, 2008
synCROnize wrote:
<quoted text>yes your pro serb
Define please.
Professor

Belgrade, Serbia

#12 Oct 13, 2008
Albano wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Cro,
don't ever let Servs fool you with 'we fought the Turks.'
What do you mean by that?

“get Synchronized ”

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#13 Oct 13, 2008
Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Define please.
your a pro serb so you dont give equal balance between other ethnic groups, this we all do i admit but you reckon that your a yugoslav and that you work with the un realy your pro serb statements conflict with the way you discibe yourself.
you now asked me several times what a pro serb is and here is another answer again.
you keep on asking the same question so you come here to spam again as you cant come up with a answer so you spam spam spam.
Professor

Beograd, Serbia

#14 Oct 14, 2008
synCROnize wrote:
<quoted text>your a pro serb so you dont give equal balance between other ethnic groups, this we all do i admit but you reckon that your a yugoslav and that you work with the un realy your pro serb statements conflict with the way you discibe yourself.
you now asked me several times what a pro serb is and here is another answer again.
you keep on asking the same question so you come here to spam again as you cant come up with a answer so you spam spam spam.
I ask because "pro serb" is some sort of a political definition, e.g. like the one in Montenegro. In normal un-specified speech is pointless. Of course every nation is significant, and therefore, if defending Serbs means pro-Serb, then OK. You are also anti-Serb.
Professor

Belgrade, Serbia

#16 Oct 15, 2008
synCROnize wrote:
<quoted text>why am i anti serb?
1. Removal of all Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia to Serbia (as if they can be found or want that in the first place)

2. Individuals "cannot be trusted" because of their Serb ethnicity

3. Attacked the Serbs for "killing most non-Serbs in the history" and skimming through all individuals on the globe that have in the history of mankind been killed by an individual that is of ethnic Serb descent or national preference (an idiotic thing, to be short)

4. Never ever defended Serbs in any case on the forum

These are the basic (out of many).

“get Synchronized ”

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#17 Oct 15, 2008
Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Removal of all Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia to Serbia (as if they can be found or want that in the first place)
2. Individuals "cannot be trusted" because of their Serb ethnicity
3. Attacked the Serbs for "killing most non-Serbs in the history" and skimming through all individuals on the globe that have in the history of mankind been killed by an individual that is of ethnic Serb descent or national preference (an idiotic thing, to be short)
4. Never ever defended Serbs in any case on the forum
These are the basic (out of many).
heeey thats abit harsh and extreme of you.
1 i said plainly if it were possible to do a people exchange with no war so in the future war could be prevented.
2 that was a reaction from past greater serbia idea outside and inside of croatia and this is still present today however that remark was in general and not specific.
3 attack who? i wrote in forums discibing crimes done by serbs as other ethnic groups were spoken badly by serbs.
4 not so true on political and historical views i have agreed with some serb views.
Andy

London, UK

#18 Oct 16, 2008
Serbs even say that they "defended Europe from the Ottoman empire". how stupid are these people. After their first defeat against the Ottomans, they allied with them against Albanians etc.

It must be really hard when you history is based on complete lies. Poor Serbs
Lusatian Sorb

Belgrade, Serbia

#19 Oct 16, 2008
Andy wrote:
Serbs even say that they "defended Europe from the Ottoman empire". how stupid are these people. After their first defeat against the Ottomans, they allied with them against Albanians etc.
It must be really hard when you history is based on complete lies. Poor Serbs
And where were your albos during the Battle of Kosovo? they converted to turkish religion and spent several centuries in turk arses.
Professor

Belgrade, Serbia

#20 Oct 16, 2008
synCROnize wrote:
<quoted text>heeey thats abit harsh and extreme of you.
1 i said plainly if it were possible to do a people exchange with no war so in the future war could be prevented.
2 that was a reaction from past greater serbia idea outside and inside of croatia and this is still present today however that remark was in general and not specific.
3 attack who? i wrote in forums discibing crimes done by serbs as other ethnic groups were spoken badly by serbs.
4 not so true on political and historical views i have agreed with some serb views.
1. Sure. An exchange of a billion for one, as well as after a territorial enlargement

2. Excuse me?

3. Nah, mainly you talk about Serbs, never ever about other peoples' crimes, and you point out some blatantly idiotic thing, like the diversity of the members of non-Serb ethnic groups that were subjected to maltreatement by individuals belonging to the Serbian nation, or listing up a number of all sorts of individuals in the history that were killed people belonging to the Serbian nation, or at least of Serb descent. What is a logic to this, except in some sort of a weak attempt to present the Ethnic Evilness of a people?

4. Like what?
Professor

Belgrade, Serbia

#21 Oct 16, 2008
Andy wrote:
Serbs even say that they "defended Europe from the Ottoman empire". how stupid are these people. After their first defeat against the Ottomans, they allied with them against Albanians etc.
It must be really hard when you history is based on complete lies. Poor Serbs
Not at first defeat, but at last - and it only took them some until constant resistance was renewed.

Serbs with the Ottomans agaisnt the Albanians? Huh?

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