Settlin the NAZI question between Ser...

“Make burek, not war”

Since: Oct 13

Costa del Coventry

#4095 Jan 30, 2014
MATKO JURIC wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly mate
In the U.K nobody really knows much about Croatia infact whenever someone asks me where i come from and i tell them Croatia they say "Oh Croatia thats near Russia right ?" Or "Where the fck is that ?"
But those few that have heard of or know about Croatia say "Its a beautiful country" or "You have a good football team" etc
I'd hate it if people only knew about Croatia because of what the Usatse did in the 1940's. I think Croatia has done alot of things to make up for ustase crimes.
Lol, I love it how people get confused between Croatia and Czechoslovakia. I've had people ask before if Croatia is near Estonia :D

I think the closest somebody has came to identifying where Croatia is geographically is 'near Bulgaria', but he was Bulgarian, so that doesn't count :P

“Make burek, not war”

Since: Oct 13

Costa del Coventry

#4096 Jan 30, 2014
Dr Milan Sufflay wrote:
Croatia as a whole has not yet truly confronted & condemned the Ustashi regime & the crimes it committed "in the name of croatian freedom "
'
I agree to some extent, more needs to be done to educate the youth about the Ustase. Also, I would like to see the adorning of symbols such as the =U= symbol and the swastika to be illegal as such symbols are in countries such as Germany.

But overall, I second what Matko and Mr Cro Pockets have said, that Croatia is not as fascist as everybody makes out.

“Insert witty quote here”

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#4097 Jan 30, 2014
Dr Milan Sufflay wrote:
Croatia as a whole has not yet truly confronted & condemned the Ustashi regime & the crimes it committed "in the name of croatian freedom "
'
How much do we need to "explore the subject" though Milan? I mean haha c'mon it's been SEVENTY years. I feel the same way as poc here honestly, we have not repeated this mistake one time since then, and in fact we have made positive strides in the opposite direction, even while under Tito. This was Ustase Party war crimes aginst Croatia's neighbors and her own people, not the people of Croatia doing this. If an individual commits a crime, they serve their time and have to feel their guilt, and then that's it they move on in life in what is hopefully a positive direction.

So we need to bring up crimes that happened over half a century ago and explore them...why? I mean "in the name of Croatian freedom" has no bearing on the nation of Croatia or her people Milan you know this. Look at EVERY revolutionary movement in the past few centuries all over the world, whether it's in Europe, Africa, even America...they all begin with "fighting for the people" of their respective country that's how they gain momentum in the first place. So despite Croatia's efforts to move on from this one incident she still needs to apologize for what a handful of traitors did against her neighbors and own populace? Then appropriately Serbia can have a sit-down with us as well and apologize for the actions of Srpska Vojska Krajine during the early 90's. That is fair. Personally, I feel that neither needs to come out and publicly acknowledge the crimes committed, we as Serbs/Croats know better than anyone what they were, why bring it up? Does no good, both people (I won't speak for the governments necessarily) are ashamed of the actions done by their relatives and forefathers. It's been much longer since the whole "Ustase" incident, and I feel Croatia has, as a nation and a people, atoned for much of what was done by a small percentage of Fascists who seized power through the help of Nazi Germany and soiled the reputation a generations to come. But if we need to lay it out on the table and everyone apologize to each other that's fine too, group hug after even with the whole photo op. Whatever puts this dragged out nonsense to bed.

“Insert witty quote here”

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#4098 Jan 30, 2014
Jooosh04 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hahaha, its funny that one of the many Jewish stereotypes is that they are very self loathing, so its a double whammy for me, unfortunately. What with being a devout anti-Semitic nazi as well as hating all Croats on my mums side and being a greedy, equally self hating Zionist on my dad's side. I'm screwed :(
Oy vey
Hahaha. Oy vey indeed. Well I still think you're alright Jooosh. And you how much I hate other Croats like myself lol.
MATKO JURIC

Coventry, UK

#4099 Jan 30, 2014
Mr Cro Pockets wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup great minds think alike. "Croat minds" in this case or something rather I don't know lol. And yeah no worries mate like I said I wasn't bringing up my family loss to generate sympathy for myself or "oh my family has suffered". Just the way it is, can't change it now. My point was Serbs aren't the only ones who lost their relatives against their neighbors in the past hundred years, but they listening to many of them you'd think they were the only "victims" sometimes.


Nobody said that you were trying to gain sympathy lol.

Its part of being a good Human being if you know of someone that has lost someone to say sorry.

:)))
MATKO JURIC

Coventry, UK

#4100 Jan 30, 2014
Jooosh04 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol, I love it how people get confused between Croatia and Czechoslovakia. I've had people ask before if Croatia is near Estonia :D
I think the closest somebody has came to identifying where Croatia is geographically is 'near Bulgaria', but he was Bulgarian, so that doesn't count :P
Ahaha yes ive heard everything is it near..Russia,Poland,Czech rep,Turkey ?, Lol

I even remember a few years back i went to London with a few friends and we decided to get a Chinese , Half way through eating my meal my friend gave me a strange look and asked "Dont you have this kind of food every day when you go back to Korea ?"

So funny :)))

“Insert witty quote here”

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#4101 Jan 30, 2014
MATKO JURIC wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody said that you were trying to gain sympathy lol.
Its part of being a good Human being if you know of someone that has lost someone to say sorry.
:)))
Well then hvala Matko I appreciate your condolences :)

“Make burek, not war”

Since: Oct 13

Costa del Coventry

#4102 Jan 30, 2014
Mr Cro Pockets wrote:
<quoted text>
Hahaha. Oy vey indeed. Well I still think you're alright Jooosh. And you how much I hate other Croats like myself lol.
Cheers ese :)

Ditto to you too. Admittedly, I hate myself way more if anything. Ah well, gonna have to put on a Ustase uniform (the one all Croats get from the government when they're born) and count some money or something, me being the self hating Croat-Jew hybrid, lol :D

“Make burek, not war”

Since: Oct 13

Costa del Coventry

#4103 Jan 30, 2014
Mr Cro Pockets wrote:
<quoted text>
Hahaha. Oy vey indeed. Well I still think you're alright Jooosh. And you how much I hate other Croats like myself lol.
Cheers ese :)

Ditto to you too. Admittedly, I hate myself more than anything :( Ah well, to cheer me up I'll put on my Ustase uniform (the one every Croat gets from the government upon birth, lol) and count some money. What with me being the self-hating Croat-Jew hybrid that I am.

“Make burek, not war”

Since: Oct 13

Costa del Coventry

#4104 Jan 30, 2014
Twice.... Really? Gawd, I hate it when that happens :/

Gonna cut my wrists with the srbosjek I got for my 1st birthday, I HATE MYSELF!!!

:D
MATKO JURIC

Coventry, UK

#4105 Jan 30, 2014
Mr Cro Pockets wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then hvala Matko I appreciate your condolences :)
Jojj Nema na cemu brate ;)))

“Make burek, not war”

Since: Oct 13

Costa del Coventry

#4106 Jan 30, 2014
MATKO JURIC wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahaha yes ive heard everything is it near..Russia,Poland,Czech rep,Turkey ?, Lol
I even remember a few years back i went to London with a few friends and we decided to get a Chinese , Half way through eating my meal my friend gave me a strange look and asked "Dont you have this kind of food every day when you go back to Korea ?"
So funny :)))
Pfft.... What the hell? Lol.:D

Bit of a divergence, but still on the subject of stupidity, I remember last year at A level history we were doing the Cold war , that day we were doing about the Berlin wall and these two bimbos sitting next to me were saying 'I don't understand how so many people got killed trying to climb over it when they could of gone around'. Still makes me laugh to this day :D

“Insert witty quote here”

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#4107 Jan 30, 2014
Jooosh04 wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree to some extent, more needs to be done to educate the youth about the Ustase. Also, I would like to see the adorning of symbols such as the =U= symbol and the swastika to be illegal as such symbols are in countries such as Germany.
But overall, I second what Matko and Mr Cro Pockets have said, that Croatia is not as fascist as everybody makes out.
See, this is the only problem I have with that. Educate?...definitely. But the youth of every nation are the ones that like to associate themselves with revolutionary ideals and anarchist themes. I don't mean ALL youth either, just implying that these revolutions that do occur and given motion are primarily being fueled BY the youth. Look historically where revolutions and "freedom fighter" movements have began across the world. Ireland, all over Africa it's like a continental plague, South America, and yes even the Ustase in Croatia all are done by the young and restless who are spurred on by a few narcissistic manipulating individuals. The young are impressionable, just the way it is. With the help of a little propaganda and some incentive the younger generation is always more susceptible to the glorified, romanticized "anti-establishment" policies than the more educated, experienced individuals.

So anyways yes, educating them is crucial, but illegalizing these symbols is not only a waste of time but honestly, likely to cause more harm than good. Back to the state of mind and immaturity of youth, the quickest way that revolutions gain movement is because they are branded as being "undesirable" from the beginning. This is proven over and over again by history. Quite simply, it's like telling a child no...they are going to want to do the EXACT opposite. Until they are educated on the reasons WHY they shouldn't be doing it, and seeing for themselves the personally detrimental outcomes and how it negatively affects THEM, they will continue to stubbornly resist authority. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying authority is always in the right, far from it I don't condone blindly following the given political power. But again, that's how every political group achieves power, through the UNEDUCATED and young.

Branding these symbols are only going to spur the youth to become more curious about the "radical Ustase", and for the wrong reasons not in a positive way. It's actually helpful, the few Ustase supporters that do exist in Croatian circles WANT this to happen. Why? Where will these young, frustrated, anti-EU individuals go? The ones that don't' approve of the direction their country is going...the radical, revolutionary, anti-establishment party. It merely fuels the fire for them. Hope all that makes sense. Lol. Blah blah blah right?

“Insert witty quote here”

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#4108 Jan 30, 2014
Jooosh04 wrote:
<quoted text>
Pfft.... What the hell? Lol.:D
Bit of a divergence, but still on the subject of stupidity, I remember last year at A level history we were doing the Cold war , that day we were doing about the Berlin wall and these two bimbos sitting next to me were saying 'I don't understand how so many people got killed trying to climb over it when they could of gone around'. Still makes me laugh to this day :D
HAHAHA. I just literally started laughing out loud. That's good stuff :D
SunceTiKrvavo

Adelaide, Australia

#4110 Jan 30, 2014
pocahontas wrote:
<quoted text>
That's your opinion Milan whereas the majority of Croats believe it has and they don't appreciate having it shoved down their throats, plain and simple.
Thats fair enough, no one likes to be reminded of the their own wrong doings. You have to admit that a lot of Croats and Serbs try to debunk truth to make it sound like it wasnt as bad as it looks written down on a piece of paper or a historic website. Even attempting to change history in their own minds to feel better about their nationality. Unfortunately Serbs are always reminded about the 90s so if someone mentions the broad Fascism that was thriving in croatia during the war it is something that the Croats should also accept and come to terms with. Of course it doesn't help that at a soccer match Croats are raising hands and doing Swastika formations in the crowd. That is frowned upon even by most croats.
SunceTiKrvavo

Adelaide, Australia

#4111 Jan 30, 2014
I can imagine the disappointment of those Croats who see Croatia as having moved on from the fascist days when they see their own people doing this at a soccer match.
SunceTiKrvavo

Adelaide, Australia

#4112 Jan 30, 2014
And just so you guys know that i was one of the first JNA soldiers to become ropeable and complain to the Sargent about Montenegrin JNA serbs bombing Dubrovnik fortress. I still get called a murderer by a lot of croats though.
pocahontas

Toronto, Canada

#4114 Jan 31, 2014
SunceTiKrvavo wrote:
I can imagine the disappointment of those Croats who see Croatia as having moved on from the fascist days when they see their own people doing this at a soccer match.
Never have understood the small group of Croats who act in such as way, just as I will never comprehend the burning of Croatian flags and provocative signs and chants made towards Croats about terrible events of the not so distance past that seem to be regular fare in Serbian stadiums. I can only imagine the disappointment of those Serbs who acknowledge the aggression of the 90's that cost many lives and who want to move on.
The guess who

Vrhnika, Slovenia

#4116 Jan 31, 2014
Dr Milan Sufflay wrote:
Croatia as a whole has not yet truly confronted & condemned the Ustashi regime & the crimes it committed "in the name of croatian freedom "
'
I agree with you 100%
The guess who

Vrhnika, Slovenia

#4118 Jan 31, 2014
Dr Milan Sufflay wrote:
<quoted text> your comment : " The consensus of what I gathered from other Croats speaking their opinions openly with me is not that it's excusable but that they just want the whole issue dropped. "
before dropping a subject it needs to be truly explored. I heard that during Tito's rule the issue of WW2 Ustashi crimes were for the most part brushed under the carpet in favor of promoting 'Brotherhood & Unity' as a priority .
Thank God Usrashe were defeated in WW2

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