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Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#145
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
The closest people culturally and physically to the Samoans and Pacific Islanders are the people of Fiji. This is amply documented in oral histories, physical archaeology and cultural traditions. Almost all histories and studies of the spread of Polynesian people starts with Fiji. Fiji is considered a Melanesian Island. Therefore, the strong relationship between Fiji and polynesia makes any such nonsense about a separation between Polynesia and Melanesia strictly nonsense. What they are really saying is that there is genetic difference between highland people from New Guinea and the Eastern Pacific, but highland New Guinea is not all of Melanesia.
However, this genetic study DOES NOT SAMPLE FIJIANS. Right there you see a big giant gap in the picture which makes the accuracy of the study suspect. Why? Because Fiji is like "Nubia", the "missing link" between Egypt and the rest of Africa, so by leaving Fiji out, they can pretend to present a separation between the Eastern Pacific and the rest of the Pacific that does not exist in reality.
Look at this map of the people studied:
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/fetchObje...
Obviously, if ANY population is going to be closest to the people of Eastern Pacific it would be those of the Mid Pacific, like Fiji. So why did they not sample the people of Fiji?
Duh.
We all know the answer to that one.
But beyond all of that, the sample sizes and the fact that they focused on New Guinea, which they themselves admit is HIGHLY GENETICALLY DIVERSE to begin with makes this whole study questionable to say the least.
"Fiji is considered a Melanesian Island. Therefore, the strong relationship between Fiji and polynesia makes any such nonsense about a separation between Polynesia and Melanesia strictly nonsense."

Wrong. Fijians have long interacted with Polynesians, more so than their Melanesian neighbours. You act as if the scientists ignored this fact. Well why do you think they refer to Fiji as a 'Polynesian Outlier'?? But this doesn't mean that Melanesians and Polynesians are the same people. Fiji is more of a bridge than a 'missing link'.

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#146
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
Again, this document reflects the fact that since Europeans have arrived in the Pacific they have tried to make a FALSE separation between Eastern and Western Pacific populations purely based on their own nonsense racial paradigms and not on facts. However, even with the overt racial propaganda they themselves make the point that much of what is so-called Polynesian culture actually originates in Melanesia and the sculpture and carvings they reference are those of the populations of the Sepik River in Papua New Guinea. These things drive home the point that Eastern Pacific populations were not separate from those of the Western pacific and most of the claims of such a separation are purely based on European "scientific" racial dogma than anything else.
Please quit it with conspiracy theories. Unless you have undeniable evidence that the 'evil' Europeans are trying to divide and conquer us to eat our brains, don't bother mentioning it again. Remember what you said before??

Facts>> Opinion

This rule applies to you too you know. I don't understand what the fus is about anyway. Polynesians share more in common with eachother than anyone else on the planet. So isn't it logical to class them together?? Melanesians may differ to eachother in terms of culture and even DNA, but they all seem to share dark skin, hence their name Mela = dark skin. Yes, many Europeans at that time were ignorant. But that still doesn't change the fact that Polynesians and Melanesians are two seperate peoples, regardless of any shared genetics.
pingpingpong

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#147
Jun 16, 2013
 
IncreaseThePeace312 wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL Well how's this for irony?? You were ranting on and on to Irish about facts trumping opinion, and yet here you are doing exactly what you were critizing him for.
"Second the fact is that populations from Melanesia, New Guinea and Fiji ARE KNOWN FOR A FACT to have been among the first people of the Eastern Pacific."
ready know this. Australian Aboriginals are said to have been around for tens of thousands of years, which is pretty mind-blowing to me. So I don't know what point you're trying to make here.
"All this nonsense about people coming from mainland Asia and getting on a hypersonic boat passing New Guinea and Melanesia in order to create a population UNRELATED to those of New Guinea and Melanesia is retarded."
I'm just following what the link said. But like I said before, more and more tests should be done. I don't think anyone claims that that early Polys didn't interact and breed with Melanesians. The disagreement lies with how extensive this was. That link I posted says that Polynesians have little genetic relations with Melanesians. But that isn't the same as saying we have no genetic relations.
"The original populations of the Eastern Pacific have features MOST CLOSELY resembling Fijians, some Melanesians and some New Guineans."
What 'original populations' are you referring to?? Abos are obviously similar in looks but I don't think they are Melanesian for some reason. Yet any genetic similarity to Polynesians seem minimal.
Fijian have long thin faces and thin noise and longer body and built which makes us who we are now your a cook islander your an example and your nappy curly hair. eastern poly look light version of fijian but the point is straight and simple samoan are chinky they are big noise and big lips like a abo end of the attitude cause this people and very disrespectful. We fijian are not interested in eastern it's filled with shit and worst of it samoan monkey theory. The tongafisi will and will not listen to slaves of polynesia.

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#148
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
*crickets*
I don't get the chance to log on as much as other people on here. Just because I may not reply straight away doesn't mean I don't have a reply at all.

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#149
Jun 16, 2013
 
"However, even with the overt racial propaganda they themselves make the point that much of what is so-called Polynesian culture actually originates in Melanesia and the sculpture and carvings they reference are those of the populations of the Sepik River in Papua New Guinea. These things drive home the point that Eastern Pacific populations were not separate from those of the Western pacific and most of the claims of such a separation are purely based on European "scientific" racial dogma than anything else."

Give it a rest. Acoording to your logic, there's no such thing as ethnic diversity. Put an Asian next to an African and you'll see an obvious problem to that theory. What makes it worse is the fact you can't back up any of this racial dogma crap.

Since: May 13

Auckland, New Zealand

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#150
Jun 16, 2013
 
IncreaseThePeace312 wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL Well how's this for irony?? You were ranting on and on to Irish about facts trumping opinion, and yet here you are doing exactly what you were critizing him for.
"Second the fact is that populations from Melanesia, New Guinea and Fiji ARE KNOWN FOR A FACT to have been among the first people of the Eastern Pacific."
I already know this. Australian Aboriginals are said to have been around for tens of thousands of years, which is pretty mind-blowing to me. So I don't know what point you're trying to make here.
"All this nonsense about people coming from mainland Asia and getting on a hypersonic boat passing New Guinea and Melanesia in order to create a population UNRELATED to those of New Guinea and Melanesia is retarded."
I'm just following what the link said. But like I said before, more and more tests should be done. I don't think anyone claims that that early Polys didn't interact and breed with Melanesians. The disagreement lies with how extensive this was. That link I posted says that Polynesians have little genetic relations with Melanesians. But that isn't the same as saying we have no genetic relations.
"The original populations of the Eastern Pacific have features MOST CLOSELY resembling Fijians, some Melanesians and some New Guineans."
What 'original populations' are you referring to?? Abos are obviously similar in looks but I don't think they are Melanesian for some reason. Yet any genetic similarity to Polynesians seem minimal.
"LOL Well how's this for irony?? You were ranting on and on to Irish about facts trumping opinion, and yet here you are doing exactly what you were critizing him for"

How did I contradict myself?

"I'm just following what the link said. But like I said before, more and more tests should be done. I don't think anyone claims that that early Polys didn't interact and breed with Melanesians. The disagreement lies with how extensive this was. That link I posted says that Polynesians have little genetic relations with Melanesians. But that isn't the same as saying we have no genetic relations"

Wrong,what they are really saying is that there is genetic difference between highland people from New Guinea and the Eastern Pacific, but highland New Guinea is not all of Melanesia.

Why were Fijians not sampled? lol

You need to do some research instead of just copying and pasting links lol
pingpingpong

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#151
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
*crickets*
Why they never did a test in fiji and tonga cause we are pure they did the eastern cause most are half mut white and western Samoa are straight up Micronesian.

Since: May 13

Auckland, New Zealand

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#152
Jun 16, 2013
 
IncreaseThePeace312 wrote:
<quoted text>
Please quit it with conspiracy theories. Unless you have undeniable evidence that the 'evil' Europeans are trying to divide and conquer us to eat our brains, don't bother mentioning it again. Remember what you said before??
Facts>> Opinion
This rule applies to you too you know. I don't understand what the fus is about anyway. Polynesians share more in common with eachother than anyone else on the planet. So isn't it logical to class them together?? Melanesians may differ to eachother in terms of culture and even DNA, but they all seem to share dark skin, hence their name Mela = dark skin. Yes, many Europeans at that time were ignorant. But that still doesn't change the fact that Polynesians and Melanesians are two seperate peoples, regardless of any shared genetics.
"Unless you have undeniable evidence that the 'evil' Europeans are trying to divide and conquer us"

The term "Polynesia" was first used in 1756 by French writer Charles de Brosses, and originally applied to all the islands of the Pacific.

This term originally applied to all the islands of the pacific...do you see where this is going? lol

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#153
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
"Unless you have undeniable evidence that the 'evil' Europeans are trying to divide and conquer us"
The term "Polynesia" was first used in 1756 by French writer Charles de Brosses, and originally applied to all the islands of the Pacific.
This term originally applied to all the islands of the pacific...do you see where this is going? lol
The actual terms 'Melanesians' and 'Polynesians' don't matter. You and I can call them whatever we want but the facts will remain.

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#154
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
"LOL Well how's this for irony?? You were ranting on and on to Irish about facts trumping opinion, and yet here you are doing exactly what you were critizing him for"
How did I contradict myself?
"I'm just following what the link said. But like I said before, more and more tests should be done. I don't think anyone claims that that early Polys didn't interact and breed with Melanesians. The disagreement lies with how extensive this was. That link I posted says that Polynesians have little genetic relations with Melanesians. But that isn't the same as saying we have no genetic relations"
Wrong,what they are really saying is that there is genetic difference between highland people from New Guinea and the Eastern Pacific, but highland New Guinea is not all of Melanesia.
Why were Fijians not sampled? lol
You need to do some research instead of just copying and pasting links lol
"How did I contradict myself?"

You didn't back up your claims with proof. The only link I saw you post when you were talking to me was a map of the samplings. There was no link for any other claim you made such as the 'conpiracy theory' about the Europeans and their desire to divide and conquer. That doesn't make any sense anyway since they ended up conquering the islands anyway, without any need for naming our peoples.

Since: May 13

Auckland, New Zealand

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#155
Jun 16, 2013
 
So we agree to disagree?

Since: May 13

Auckland, New Zealand

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#156
Jun 16, 2013
 
IncreaseThePeace312 wrote:
<quoted text>
"How did I contradict myself?"
You didn't back up your claims with proof. The only link I saw you post when you were talking to me was a map of the samplings. There was no link for any other claim you made such as the 'conpiracy theory' about the Europeans and their desire to divide and conquer. That doesn't make any sense anyway since they ended up conquering the islands anyway, without any need for naming our peoples.
This is how I know you have very limited knowledge on the subject.You only know what you read on the internet.

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#157
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
"LOL Well how's this for irony?? You were ranting on and on to Irish about facts trumping opinion, and yet here you are doing exactly what you were critizing him for"
How did I contradict myself?
"I'm just following what the link said. But like I said before, more and more tests should be done. I don't think anyone claims that that early Polys didn't interact and breed with Melanesians. The disagreement lies with how extensive this was. That link I posted says that Polynesians have little genetic relations with Melanesians. But that isn't the same as saying we have no genetic relations"
Wrong,what they are really saying is that there is genetic difference between highland people from New Guinea and the Eastern Pacific, but highland New Guinea is not all of Melanesia.
Why were Fijians not sampled? lol
"Wrong,what they are really saying is that there is genetic difference You need to do some research instead of just copying and pasting links lolbetween highland people from New Guinea and the Eastern Pacific, but highland New Guinea is not all of Melanesia.
Why were Fijians not sampled? lol"

What they are 'really' saying?? Is this another conspiracy again?? SMH... If you're trying to debunk this study, you're doing a terrible job at it and you're also not the right person to do it. If this study turns out to be wrong, it will be SCIENTISTS who will determine this, not you.

"You need to do some research instead of just copying and pasting links lol"

Don't give me that crap. You've posted quite a few links yourself. The problem with you is that you disgard evidence you don't like. It's painfully obvious that you are tainted by BIAS. It's not rocket science. My link supports the 'Express Train Theory', while you support the 'Slow Boat Theory'. What you fail to realise is that your theory actually supports my postion that Melanesians and Polynesians are rightfully seperate peoples. Look at your own link...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16923821
The human settlement of the Pacific Islands represents one of the most recent major migration events of mankind. POLYNESIANS originated in Asia according to linguistic evidence or in MELANESIA...

Right there. Your own link mentions the words "Melanesia" and "Polynesians". Isn't this in direct contrast to your claims about these names being incorrect??

Since: May 13

Auckland, New Zealand

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#158
Jun 16, 2013
 
The Europeans divide & conquer tactics in the Pacific are well documented and is a fact you just can't deny.

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#159
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
So we agree to disagree?
Agreeing and disagreeing are synonymous with OPINION. But remember, this is a matter of fact not opinion. Like you said...

Fact>>Opinion

One may take it as this is your way of admitting defeat ;)

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#160
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
<quoted text>
This is how I know you have very limited knowledge on the subject.You only know what you read on the internet.
Wrong. I simply like people to back up their claims with evidence and I try to do the same. Is it that too much of an ask?? And don't forget that you used links yourself. Explain how it is ok for you and not me.

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#161
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
The Europeans divide & conquer tactics in the Pacific are well documented and is a fact you just can't deny.
Yes, but they did this by force and not by simply designating your people as Melanesian and mine as Polynesian.

Since: Feb 13

Katikati, New Zealand

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#162
Jun 16, 2013
 
Gotta go. I can keep schoolling you tommorrow ;)

“me! chee hoo! LOL!”

Since: Oct 09

Apia, Samoa

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#163
Jun 16, 2013
 
Fijian_Warrior wrote:
*crickets*
why.. Cause ur dummer than ping pong.. All u say when u cant debunk the answer.. Post fact not opinon.. Duuuhhhh

“me! chee hoo! LOL!”

Since: Oct 09

Apia, Samoa

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#164
Jun 16, 2013
 
IncreaseThePeace312 wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreeing and disagreeing are synonymous with OPINION. But remember, this is a matter of fact not opinion. Like you said...
Fact>>Opinion
One may take it as this is your way of admitting defeat ;)
lol.. What i was thinking.

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