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Piuni

Auckland, New Zealand

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#1
Aug 3, 2013
 

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Tui Manua is real, but its not what its made out to be. If you step back and place events on a table then a clear picture emerges.

My take is this: Tui Manua was an off shoot of the Tongan Tui Tonga, most likely a younger brother who left to start up his own.

Once Tui manua was estabilished The Tui Tonga used this connection to infiltrate Western Samoa through intermarriages, a tried and true method of expansion for the Tongans. With this Tui Manua gained power over Atua and Aana, the real Samoan chiefdoms backed by the Tongans and their allies the Fijians. Even the ceremonies surrounding the Manuan chief are traditions that mirror the Tongans.

If you look at how and where Talakaifiki set up in Western Samoa according to Samoan history the Tongans started from the East, coming from Tutuila and made their way inland to Upolu and Savaii setting up forts along the way. That means they did not sail directly from Tonga or Fiji where it would be faster to reach Upolu and Savaii but went all the way around to Manua and sailed in from the East. Why? Was it because they had already estabilished a base in Manua? What other reason would there be?

When the Tongans were defeated, Atua and Aana, the true Samoan chiefdoms were restored while Manua was left out of the picture entirely. This is a glaring fact that should be looked at closely.

The logical explanation at this point is Tui Manua was at its core a Tongan chiefdom in Samoa set up through intermarriages and was later used to infilitrate the Samoan ruling families.

Anyone else?
PewPew

Perth, Australia

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#2
Aug 4, 2013
 

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The Tui Manua came from the words
Tui-King
Man-The Male species
Ua-Short for lUA meaning two

They beleived in the holy matrimony of 2 men.....They were the first political party that supported gay rights
Hamo

Seattle, WA

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#3
Aug 8, 2013
 

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Sad homo for starting a thread and talking to himself lol smh
Tonga

Sydney, Australia

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#4
Aug 8, 2013
 
Interesting topic eh

Since: Feb 13

Dunedin, New Zealand

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#5
Aug 10, 2013
 

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Piuni wrote:
Tui Manua is real, but its not what its made out to be. If you step back and place events on a table then a clear picture emerges.
My take is this: Tui Manua was an off shoot of the Tongan Tui Tonga, most likely a younger brother who left to start up his own.
Once Tui manua was estabilished The Tui Tonga used this connection to infiltrate Western Samoa through intermarriages, a tried and true method of expansion for the Tongans. With this Tui Manua gained power over Atua and Aana, the real Samoan chiefdoms backed by the Tongans and their allies the Fijians. Even the ceremonies surrounding the Manuan chief are traditions that mirror the Tongans.
If you look at how and where Talakaifiki set up in Western Samoa according to Samoan history the Tongans started from the East, coming from Tutuila and made their way inland to Upolu and Savaii setting up forts along the way. That means they did not sail directly from Tonga or Fiji where it would be faster to reach Upolu and Savaii but went all the way around to Manua and sailed in from the East. Why? Was it because they had already estabilished a base in Manua? What other reason would there be?
When the Tongans were defeated, Atua and Aana, the true Samoan chiefdoms were restored while Manua was left out of the picture entirely. This is a glaring fact that should be looked at closely.
The logical explanation at this point is Tui Manua was at its core a Tongan chiefdom in Samoa set up through intermarriages and was later used to infilitrate the Samoan ruling families.
Anyone else?
No this is wrong. Tui Manu'a was BEFORE the Tu'i Tonga. Ata of Kolovai even says that 'Aho'eitus father was a TM. King George I also indicates that the progenitors of the Tu'i Tonga came from Samoa...

http://motusa.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/tup...

It would be better if you can back up your claims.

Since: Feb 13

Dunedin, New Zealand

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#6
Aug 10, 2013
 

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I can understand the resistance to the idea of any Tui Manu'a 'Empire' - DENIAL. But there is too much evidence in support of it to be a lie. Conspiracy theories and accusations of 'hidden agendas' is a pathetic attempt at trying to disprove it.

“NRL”

Since: Apr 12

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#7
Aug 12, 2013
 

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Piuni wrote:
Tui Manua is real, but its not what its made out to be. If you step back and place events on a table then a clear picture emerges.
My take is this: Tui Manua was an off shoot of the Tongan Tui Tonga, most likely a younger brother who left to start up his own.
Once Tui manua was estabilished The Tui Tonga used this connection to infiltrate Western Samoa through intermarriages, a tried and true method of expansion for the Tongans. With this Tui Manua gained power over Atua and Aana, the real Samoan chiefdoms backed by the Tongans and their allies the Fijians. Even the ceremonies surrounding the Manuan chief are traditions that mirror the Tongans.
If you look at how and where Talakaifiki set up in Western Samoa according to Samoan history the Tongans started from the East, coming from Tutuila and made their way inland to Upolu and Savaii setting up forts along the way. That means they did not sail directly from Tonga or Fiji where it would be faster to reach Upolu and Savaii but went all the way around to Manua and sailed in from the East. Why? Was it because they had already estabilished a base in Manua? What other reason would there be?
When the Tongans were defeated, Atua and Aana, the true Samoan chiefdoms were restored while Manua was left out of the picture entirely. This is a glaring fact that should be looked at closely.
The logical explanation at this point is Tui Manua was at its core a Tongan chiefdom in Samoa set up through intermarriages and was later used to infilitrate the Samoan ruling families.
Anyone else?
Thats sounds right! In the history of Samoa, Manu'a has always posed foreign to the rest of Samoa. Its as if there were not even Samoan. Tui Tonga's base was in Manu'a... Even earlier, Tui Lautala of Fiji first landed and lived in Manu'a before moving to Manono to launch his invasion of Upolu and Savaii.

Samoan history is really pathetic. Thats why they spend more time writing and editing their history to give them some closure and pride. Even their exaggerated Malietoa who supposedly freed Samoa had a damning twist to it. A twist that even Samoans today don't even know. To the North West coast and western islands of Fiji, you will find stories of their war to free Samoa from the Tongans. Even today, the island of Waya in western Fiji remains the Tauvu/'ancestral friend' of the whole of Samoa.

Samoa is a race of mutts. Too many cook spoil the soup.
I feel your pain Samoa.

“NRL”

Since: Apr 12

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#8
Aug 12, 2013
 

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PewPew wrote:
The Tui Manua came from the words
Tui-King
Man-The Male species
Ua-Short for lUA meaning two
They beleived in the holy matrimony of 2 men.....They were the first political party that supported gay rights
HahaHA shiett
Tui Manu'a defined!

Since: Feb 13

Dunedin, New Zealand

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#9
Aug 13, 2013
 

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KavaFarmer wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats sounds right! In the history of Samoa, Manu'a has always posed foreign to the rest of Samoa. Its as if there were not even Samoan. Tui Tonga's base was in Manu'a... Even earlier, Tui Lautala of Fiji first landed and lived in Manu'a before moving to Manono to launch his invasion of Upolu and Savaii.
Samoan history is really pathetic. Thats why they spend more time writing and editing their history to give them some closure and pride. Even their exaggerated Malietoa who supposedly freed Samoa had a damning twist to it. A twist that even Samoans today don't even know. To the North West coast and western islands of Fiji, you will find stories of their war to free Samoa from the Tongans. Even today, the island of Waya in western Fiji remains the Tauvu/'ancestral friend' of the whole of Samoa.
Samoa is a race of mutts. Too many cook spoil the soup.
I feel your pain Samoa.
Nice little editorial there. If only it was real. Ahh well... a nice little fairy tale to tuck your kids in at night aye?? LOL.

Since: Feb 13

Dunedin, New Zealand

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#10
Aug 13, 2013
 

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http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document/Volume...
"In accordance with this arrangement, Fiji, Tonga, and the eastern groups used to bring tribute of fish to Tui-Manu'a."

LOL...

Since: Feb 13

Dunedin, New Zealand

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#11
Aug 13, 2013
 

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And here's something I just found...

http://mro.massey.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/1017...
"'umisi (umiti in Samoan): tributes of sea food of the Tui Manu'a brought to him from Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Rarotonga, Tahiti and Wahua.
-'Opeti Manisela Taliai, PhD.

I'd like to see anyone try to debunk this. Maybe Dr. Taliai is trying to conquer Samoa?? LOL...

“NRL”

Since: Apr 12

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#12
Aug 13, 2013
 

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A tribute of fish? lol. Thats a joke!

Fijians never used fish as tributes in the past. The only accepted form of tribute was human.

“NRL”

Since: Apr 12

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#13
Aug 13, 2013
 

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If you read other sources, you will read that the idea of Fiji, Tonga and other islands paying tribute to Manumanu was because it was said that, 'all the islands brought a tribute of fish'. Samoans pounced and claimed that this meant the entire flippin ocean hahahaha. Manumanu only recieved tribute from all the islands of samoa. Remember, Manu'a is a tiny island, and to have the whole of Samoa to pay tribute must have felt like the world lol

Since: Feb 13

Dunedin, New Zealand

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#14
Aug 13, 2013
 

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KavaFarmer wrote:
A tribute of fish? lol. Thats a joke!
Fijians never used fish as tributes in the past. The only accepted form of tribute was human.
The joke is you being in denial. It's no different to the Tu'i Tonga Empire when it extracted tribute ('inazi) in the form of food from other islands. You claim only human tribute was acceptable, but where is your PROOF??

Since: Feb 13

Dunedin, New Zealand

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#15
Aug 13, 2013
 

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KavaFarmer wrote:
If you read other sources, you will read that the idea of Fiji, Tonga and other islands paying tribute to Manumanu was because it was said that,'all the islands brought a tribute of fish'. Samoans pounced and claimed that this meant the entire flippin ocean hahahaha. Manumanu only recieved tribute from all the islands of samoa. Remember, Manu'a is a tiny island, and to have the whole of Samoa to pay tribute must have felt like the world lol
"Samoans pounced and claimed that this meant the entire flippin ocean hahahaha."

Not so fast.'Opeti is Tongan and Kramer is German. Try again.

"Remember, Manu'a is a tiny island,"

Exactly right. No wonder you're embarrassed ;)

Since: Feb 13

Dunedin, New Zealand

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#16
Aug 13, 2013
 

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"If you read other sources, you will read that the idea of Fiji, Tonga and other islands paying tribute to Manumanu was because it was said that,'all the islands brought a tribute of fish'."

What other sources are you talking about?? Kramer is the oldest source I know of who speaks of 'umti from other islands (other than Samoa). Everyone else ('Opeti, Collocott etc.) is quoting him. You may think that Kramer is wrong but that wouldn't make sense since other scholars have used him as a source in their works. No-one would use Kramer if he were unreliable. If if there were just a little doubt about Kramer someone would of said something.

Since: Feb 13

Tauranga, New Zealand

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#17
Aug 13, 2013
 
hardly

Wellington, New Zealand

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#18
Aug 13, 2013
 

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Well done ILP... on point as usual.

As usual Kava's talking through KiA's (aka Pewpew) muli!

“NRL”

Since: Apr 12

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#19
Aug 13, 2013
 

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Samoa is like a transit lump of land in the pacific where wayfarers stop for a pee and pass on haha. The only people that remained are the ones that got chucked off the boats because they were just a waste of rooting space hahaha

They were burning with anger because of this, so they went haywire claiming to have come from heaven and even going as far as to shag other pokis lol.

“NRL”

Since: Apr 12

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#20
Aug 13, 2013
 

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Hahaha now take it easy mate, I was just kidding!

Samoa is awesome.

HAHAHAHA

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