Should Samoans be concerned on new religions within Samoa?

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TEEstrong

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#687
Oct 28, 2012
 
not to say tongans are better in any way compared to the other island nations in the pacific. as many of you know i never posted anything hateful to my usoz.. hawaiians..fijians.. etc. but tongas heritage and culture is more intact then any other nation in our realm. due to the fact the first tui tonga preserved it by that stradegy of giving it to christianity. we still sing and chant ..dance and hold those rituals before the euro invasion. the only practice we lost were the ta tatau. but we still hold kava circles. even the young generation have kalapus.. all over the us. n.z. and aus.. way better an alernative then liquor..i would like our usoz and hawaiians fijians and others as well to try and dig their kava roots back up again. history has alreadyy been written. the future hasnt. and we have the ink to write upon for generations to see. culture revival. we have to come as one.. otherwise we would never accomplish the great feats our ancestors have done before us.

Since: Nov 11

Auckland, New Zealand

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#688
Oct 28, 2012
 
TEEstrong wrote:
the tu'i tonga did play it as a tactic. now put yourself in his position of the time. this era was the invasion of the eurpoeans into the pacific. tupou uluaki must had seen all of these pacific nations collapse into the white mans grip. assesing the situation he knew that colonization would be inevitable. there was no way he could fight these invading whites. island after island have fallen to disease.. and war.. so what to do?? what can he do? he knew this could mean the end for his own tongan people and the culture.. so in a bold stroke he proclaimed christianity to england. declaring that if tonga should belong to anyone it would belong to god. this act alone ripples in all directions.. if he didnt unite tonga as one instead of groups. each of those islands would of fell bitterly the the english. the divide and conquer techniqe. maybe none of the other chief from the other islands couldnt see it because of bitter rivalry. but he foreseen it. and they had to be takin over..when uniting all of tonga then proclaiming it as a christian nation. england looked pass tonga. king tupou even took the first name of the king of england GEORGE/SIAOSI. pretty mich saying look! ive took your name.. we are a christian nation.. this move made tonga more of a pacific ally rather then being a part of the english empire. this act perserved our culture..our people from devastating losses. it might not have been aongst the most exciting and adventureous types of victories in history. but it did save tonga from european coloniztion. but heres an inside hiiden secret many overlook about tupou the 1st. as very christian fanatic/ proclaimer he mightve been.. why did he keep his middle name TAUFAAHAU??which is one of tongas patron gods..=) i think he fooled the english..
Finally, someone tries to explain this 'strategy' to me. I know that Tonga was trying to avoid colonization. But how did becoming Christian help that?? All of the colonizing countries in the Pacific at the time were 'Christian' of course. But lets all remember they did alot of very UNChristian things during that time period. The three main points of colonization was for either resources (land, rivers etc), riches (diamonds, gold, spices etc) or just pride (showing off to other countries. I just can't see how the religion of the natives would affect their judgement anyways. Couldn't Tonga have found a way to have resisted both foreign rule and foreign religion??

Since: Nov 11

Auckland, New Zealand

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#689
Oct 28, 2012
 
TEEstrong wrote:
not to say tongans are better in any way compared to the other island nations in the pacific. as many of you know i never posted anything hateful to my usoz.. hawaiians..fijians.. etc. but tongas heritage and culture is more intact then any other nation in our realm. due to the fact the first tui tonga preserved it by that stradegy of giving it to christianity. we still sing and chant ..dance and hold those rituals before the euro invasion. the only practice we lost were the ta tatau. but we still hold kava circles. even the young generation have kalapus.. all over the us. n.z. and aus.. way better an alernative then liquor..i would like our usoz and hawaiians fijians and others as well to try and dig their kava roots back up again. history has alreadyy been written. the future hasnt. and we have the ink to write upon for generations to see. culture revival. we have to come as one.. otherwise we would never accomplish the great feats our ancestors have done before us.
But isn't religion or beliefs apart of ones culture?? Often more so than other aspects like dance, songs, art etc. I could argue Tonga lost a big chunk of its culture when it gave up itself to Christianity. Lets not forget Tatau or the Meʻelaufola (and who knows what else Tonga has lost).

Since: Feb 12

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#690
Oct 28, 2012
 
@ TEE
True bro kava is a better alternative to alcohol . Tonga has indeed held its culture. But for samoans kava drinking is nothing new, Men that work the fields nd plantations drink it as an energy drink. However kava circles are not just an everyday casual thing for us. Its something sacred, reserved for special occasions. Now saying that Tonga has preserved its culture more than that of the other polys , is a bit off the scale. Being that you're judgement is based off just dances. Faasamoa is more then dances, dances are soley just for entertainment. True faasamoa is preserved especially through are oratory/aganuu/alaga upu. With respect.

“MASINA”

Since: Jul 10

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#691
Oct 28, 2012
 
Religious Tolerance can be challenging for some people and countries...being that it can be a sensitive issue.
SURF808

Gisborne, New Zealand

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#692
Oct 28, 2012
 
We were once told about three taboos of any discussion: Religion, Politics, and Sex.

Once in a while we inject an opinion, knowing all along that there's no end to it, let alone an agreement!
TEEstrong

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#693
Oct 28, 2012
 
@increase the peace.. christianity was certainly just another weapon these europeans had. it wasnt just a war with guns and steel. but also a war with ideals..taming the barbaric savages..or civilizing them..as they mite say.. the english wasnt just trying for land. but also making sure other superpowers (german.spanish..dutch..and french) werent getting that land as well.. as for resources.. all our pacific island nations dont even have many resources to begin with. but there importance was more of a strategic stagging ground. or launch bases into the east.(reason why america wanted hawaaii so bad.. russia also had there eye on hawaii ) couldve tonga resist colonization by any other means?? i doubt it. this must have been the only way. tonga was considered a british protectorate.. could of the english if they wanted to conquered tonga if they wanted to? or rage war?? yes but there wouldve been many losses.. i dont know the terms england had with tonga at the time.. but the tongans did have the advantage. because being a protectorate of the english discouraged all the other european super powers of trying to lay claims later on.
TEEstrong

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#694
Oct 28, 2012
 
InCrEaSe_ThE_PeAcE wrote:
<quoted text>
But isn't religion or beliefs apart of ones culture?? Often more so than other aspects like dance, songs, art etc. I could argue Tonga lost a big chunk of its culture when it gave up itself to Christianity. Lets not forget Tatau or the Me&#699;elaufola (and who knows what else Tonga has lost).
religon and beliefs does have to do with ones culture..most of the time. i mean moses..abraham.. and jesus was hebrews.. yet the europeans picked it up..im sure they had there own culture.. and we picked that up.. theres white muslims that never been or seen the middle east. black mormons.. etc.. i do agree that tonga has lost many of its old ways.. no doubt.
TEEstrong

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#695
Oct 28, 2012
 
@fonk difyd- uce.. we do hold kava circles commonly. but we do.(most of the time).. keep the same respect into our faikava.. keeping the mannerisms and the way we conduct ourselves within the circle. ive faikava with many usoz we invited.. from by speacial occasions like the tamafakava to the regular weekly get together with the tokoz. its a cultural practice thats being excersized and kept alive.. as for the dances uce.. i cant believe that what our people did was jus for pure entertainment. they must of had some spiritual meaning.. or telling a story.. each movement was saying..illustrating..or demonstrating something more then jus entertainment.. for example like i dont believe that the samoan slap dance was because of mosquitos.. i think the missionaries played it down to that.. comming from the culture we came from that had to have some type of spiritual significance..

Since: Nov 11

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#696
Oct 29, 2012
 
TEEstrong wrote:
@increase the peace.. christianity was certainly just another weapon these europeans had. it wasnt just a war with guns and steel. but also a war with ideals..taming the barbaric savages..or civilizing them..as they mite say.. the english wasnt just trying for land. but also making sure other superpowers (german.spanish..dutch..and french) werent getting that land as well.. as for resources.. all our pacific island nations dont even have many resources to begin with. but there importance was more of a strategic stagging ground. or launch bases into the east.(reason why america wanted hawaaii so bad.. russia also had there eye on hawaii ) couldve tonga resist colonization by any other means?? i doubt it. this must have been the only way. tonga was considered a british protectorate.. could of the english if they wanted to conquered tonga if they wanted to? or rage war?? yes but there wouldve been many losses.. i dont know the terms england had with tonga at the time.. but the tongans did have the advantage. because being a protectorate of the english discouraged all the other european super powers of trying to lay claims later on.
Being a British protectorate definitely helped. Britain may not have wanted Tonga as a colony but she also didn't want someone else taking it. Samoa started off as a German protectorate in 1900 but became officially a 'colony' in 1914. But before that there was tension between the Germans and the Americans/British over the islands. Samoa was a valued refuelling station for ships (I think), which is why America wanted Samoa as bad, if not more, than Hawaii. Long story short, all three came to an agreement in the Samoa Tripartite Convention. Germany and America split Samoa between themselves. The reason why Britain never got in on the action was that it received 'compensation'. If you ever wondered how Britain received Tonga as a territory, it was because of this agreement.

Since: Nov 11

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#697
Oct 29, 2012
 
You also have to look at Indonesia. They were actually colonized by the Dutch, British and even the Japanese. Yet they still kept their own religion - Christianity is a minor religion.
king of tonga

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#698
Oct 29, 2012
 
samoans culture is said to be one of the strongest and purest in this modern age.....yet, the german colonised the islands of samoa, and later british under the mandate of nz.....it didn't affect any of the local culture...in fact, the culture was so strong that it eventually kicked out the foreigners and samoa became the first ever country to become an independent nation in the pacific.....

if teestrong is saying about tongan culture being strong and well preserved because of the visions of the king in those days, i doubt that it would make any difference at all had tonga been under the colonial rule as well...
TEEstrong

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#699
Oct 29, 2012
 
InCrEaSe_ThE_PeAcE wrote:
You also have to look at Indonesia. They were actually colonized by the Dutch, British and even the Japanese. Yet they still kept their own religion - Christianity is a minor religion.
thats true. but indonesia is mostly heavily muslim. and you already know how hard in their faith they could be..
TEEstrong

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#700
Oct 29, 2012
 
SURF808 wrote:
We were once told about three taboos of any discussion: Religion, Politics, and Sex.
Once in a while we inject an opinion, knowing all along that there's no end to it, let alone an agreement!
yup but i like to think in a healthy debate without the direspect.. one could gain understanding.. steel sharpens steel luv1
TEEstrong

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#701
Oct 29, 2012
 
InCrEaSe_ThE_PeAcE wrote:
<quoted text>
Being a British protectorate definitely helped. Britain may not have wanted Tonga as a colony but she also didn't want someone else taking it. Samoa started off as a German protectorate in 1900 but became officially a 'colony' in 1914. But before that there was tension between the Germans and the Americans/British over the islands. Samoa was a valued refuelling station for ships (I think), which is why America wanted Samoa as bad, if not more, than Hawaii. Long story short, all three came to an agreement in the Samoa Tripartite Convention. Germany and America split Samoa between themselves. The reason why Britain never got in on the action was that it received 'compensation'. If you ever wondered how Britain received Tonga as a territory, it was because of this agreement.
hmmm interesting

Since: Feb 12

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#702
Oct 29, 2012
 
.......... cough cough . recess is over . back to subject. Lol
SURF808

Gisborne, New Zealand

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#703
Oct 29, 2012
 
TEEstrong wrote:
<quoted text>yup but i like to think in a healthy debate without the direspect.. one could gain understanding.. steel sharpens steel luv1
We can only hope and pray for a better or civilized world, let alone sharing or debating these topics in a friendly manner...
If you can point me to any thread in here that has been debated without calling each other names and without the mean spirited comments, then I would agree with you...:)

Since: Nov 11

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#704
Oct 29, 2012
 
TEEstrong wrote:
<quoted text> thats true. but indonesia is mostly heavily muslim. and you already know how hard in their faith they could be..
I once heard Polo say that Tonga was just a bunch of "flat atolls". Maybe thats one reason why no one was that interested in Tonga?? Don't look at that as an insult, I see it as lucky. Both Samoa and Tonga lost bits and pieces along the way but remember it wasn't always external. We had the Nafa drum in Samoa long before the Palagi came. Yet just as the first explorers started coming in, the Nafa suddenly became unpopular and people stopped using it. It wasn't the Palagi's fault though. Cultures can just change from the inside too.
TEEstrong

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#705
Oct 29, 2012
 
SURF808 wrote:
<quoted text>
We can only hope and pray for a better or civilized world, let alone sharing or debating these topics in a friendly manner...
If you can point me to any thread in here that has been debated without calling each other names and without the mean spirited comments, then I would agree with you...:)
true that.. but so far we riding this wave right now. let see how far we can go before we hit the sand..lol
TEEstrong

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#706
Oct 29, 2012
 
king of tonga wrote:
samoans culture is said to be one of the strongest and purest in this modern age.....yet, the german colonised the islands of samoa, and later british under the mandate of nz.....it didn't affect any of the local culture...in fact, the culture was so strong that it eventually kicked out the foreigners and samoa became the first ever country to become an independent nation in the pacific.....
if teestrong is saying about tongan culture being strong and well preserved because of the visions of the king in those days, i doubt that it would make any difference at all had tonga been under the colonial rule as well...
hey your probably right. but who knows what would of happened if tonga was colonized?? i do give credit when credit is due. that samoa did bounce back. the kings vision wasnt just preserving the culture. i think his first and foremost reason was saving the lives of his people. trying to steer away from war and disease. a battle that was a loosing one if he engaged the brits..

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