O ai na te iloa "lagi e sefulu" o lo'o fa'aogaina e failauga mo se maliu??..

[Masina]

tama upolu wrote:

<quoted text>
Moon o fea ga'e maua mai ai ia kusikusiga ia...ua ou fiu e su'e...oga e fou foi i la'u fa'alogo..

Fa'afetai TU, I am glad you asked. O tusitusiga fo'i ia e fou fo'i i la'u fa'alogo ma la'u va'ai....aua oute le'i tauane pe fa'alogo i lea lagi ever before....but included it here in case anyone wanted to discuss it or share what they think or know about it.

You will find it in the Talofa Lava website...on the Samoan threads It was posted by someone name Tamasamoamoni....
just type...google lagi e sefulu or tamasamoamoni and you will come across the website.

[tama upolu]

Masina wrote:

<quoted text>
Fa'afetai TU, I am glad you asked. O tusitusiga fo'i ia e fou fo'i i la'u fa'alogo ma la'u va'ai....aua oute le'i tauane pe fa'alogo i lea lagi ever before....but included it here in case anyone wanted to discuss it or share what they think or know about it.
You will find it in the Talofa Lava website...on the Samoan threads It was posted by someone name Tamasamoamoni....
just type...google lagi e sefulu or tamasamoamoni and you will come across the website.

fa'afekai mole site moon, ae fa'asusulu mai ave malamalama ga ei a oe...iga ia maua ai se malamalama, leaga ua gegefu akoa le iku lalolagi lea ei iai si ou kuagage...moon ole a sou kaofi i ia lagi???.

[Masina]

Fa'afetai lava mo le fesili TU. Ia e le fa'apea o ta'ita nei o se failauga...po'o se to'oto'o uli o le atunu'u. Po 'o a lava ni o'u manatu e fa'atatau i lenei mataupu...e tele fo'i ni isi tagata...latou te sapasapaia se manatu e fa'apea...o le sa'oga lea...

ae tu'ua ia... e le fa'apea e laofie pea se aso, aua e iai lava ao pogisa...ma uaga malolosi ia e to fata'uta'u ma faititili o lo 'o patatu solo ma galulu ai le foga'ele'ele...pertaining to people who may say…..that it is valid....i lo latou lava malamalama.Who am I to question?? But I do question it, because I have never heard of it, and surely cannot find it is any other literature...post European and Christianity contact. O le mea moni lava TU, oute talitonu...se'i tulou lava lo'u gutu ma le afi....masalo o se mea e lata mai nei? Aua oute le'i fa'alogo lava i lea lagi.

E tasi lava le lagi oute malamalama iai...O le lagi lea e fa'asino lava i le TuiManu'a. O le ulua'i lagi lenei o se maliu...aua e pine fa'amau ai le toe ola mai o le Tuitonga i le mamana o le TuiManu'a. Ina ua maliu Tuitonga Fakapouri...Fa'apouli, aua ua solia e ia le sa..tapui e iai i le Vaisa o le TuiManu'a.

E moni, o le ulua'i lagi lenei(TuiManu'a) ae e iai o Ali'i e fa'apea fo'i ma o latou tulafale...MATUA. e iai lagi e fa'asino iai....pe 'e "tatala le lagi" pe i o latou maliu. Ae o la'u lava tala mama...e leai lava se taimi na ou alu ai i ni maliu...ae oute fa'alogo atu ua gagana mai ai e se tulafale...to'oto'o lenei lagi...pei o le na tusia e Tamasamoamoni. I am not saying that this is a lagi o se maliu, because I am not quite sure what it is.

Oute leiloa lava i Upolu ma Savai'i pe iai se lagi fa'apea...pe iai ni isi na latou fa'alogo iai.Honest opinion??? Part of my brain says it is contemporary...o se mea fa'aonapo nei....but then again I think it is not...a lagi of a funeral. I like reading through it though...aua the more I read it or recite it....it resembles not a lagi...for a funeral, but ua amata ona foliga mai i la'u va'ai...something similar or representative of a genegalogical chant....it depends on the source. E fa'apefea ona iloa e se tagata to'atasi(or even a very very few handful of people) ae e leiloa le to'atele o ni isi to'oto'o failauga ma tagata lautele o le atunu'u lenei lagi?(If it is a lagi or just a recitation of who populated what and where??).

Ae masalo lava pe a tu'u fesili atu ia Manu'a po'o le a lea lagi....I am 100% sure Manua will say there is only one lagi...lol and one only that they recognize and still continue on today even in Tutuila. I asked one of my family members in Manu'a and he just waved his hand and said..."E tasi lava le Lagi. O le lagi o le TuiManu'a." He looked irritated hahaha.

What about you TU. O a ni ou manatu e fa'atatau i lea lagi po 'o nei tusitusiga?

[Masina]

tama upolu wrote:

<quoted text>
fa'afekai mole site moon, ae fa'asusulu mai ave malamalama ga ei a oe...iga ia maua ai se malamalama, leaga ua gegefu akoa le iku lalolagi lea ei iai si ou kuagage...moon ole a sou kaofi i ia lagi???.

TU there are some things that Tamasamoamoni writes about that I respect and tend to agree with and still some other things I am not quite certain of...and at times tend to disagree with....o le taimi lena ua amata ona le atoatoa le susulu o le masina...ae ua amata fo'i ona gegefuz le va'ai...i ao pogisa ua punitia ai le va'ai ma le susulu atu...ua tau confuse...Moon is not perfecto mundo...LOL!

But I am sure he should know what he is talking about... However,I do respect and appreciate his spirit of sharing of alot of "cultural wisdom."

[tama upolu]

Hi Moon. I am with you on that. According to the old Samoan tradition the people of manua are half human and half spirit.(aitu). E iai le gu’u I upolu e ka’u o solosolo, fai mai le kala e iai le aiku o lo’o gofo ile pikogu’u ei le va o solosolo ma luakuagu’u e ka’u o vailoa…even today the people of the village solosolo still claim to see this AITU in a form of a dog or owl. According to tradition this aitu has a connection with manua. They are the only village in upolu that can go to any funeral of high chief of any village in Samoa-I -sisifo….and kakala the lagi.(AUALA). O solosolo e mafai oga ave le lakou auala I so’o se maliu ose alii kaua ose gu’u I Samoa I sisifo…These days they don’t practice this old tradition, and I don’t know the reason.

I am not sure about the lagi that samoamoni is talking about; but I think it is something to do with geneology. It is very good info to have. I am still looking into it.

[tama upolu]

Moon ua ova le kele ole aiku ile kou moku a...LOL.

[Masina]

Oooops....Sorry TU...I wrote another novel...hahaha.
Tafefe se. E tatau ona amata na tusi la'u dissertation Hahahahahaha!

BTW TU, I agree...its very good to have this information.

[tama upolu]

Masina wrote:

Oooops....Sorry TU...I wrote another novel...hahaha.
Tafefe se. E tatau ona amata na tusi la'u dissertation Hahahahahaha!
BTW TU, I agree...its very good to have this information.

moon kago e koe post mai le (POST 50) o lea e misi ia 'au..fa'amolemole..ou ke le iloa le mea lea e kupu????#POST 50.

[tama upolu]

Masina wrote:

Oooops....Sorry TU...I wrote another novel...hahaha.
Tafefe se. E tatau ona amata na tusi la'u dissertation Hahahahahaha!
BTW TU, I agree...its very good to have this information.

i am trying to make sense of what you are saying because i cannot see post #50.
can you please repost it to me...just eager to see what the novel is all about.
thanks moon

[Masina]

I re-posted #50 TU. Hope its showing. It is just another example of the aitua o Manu'a....lol

[Masina]

tama upolu wrote:

Hi Moon. I am with you on that. According to the old Samoan tradition the people of manua are half human and half spirit.(aitu). E iai le gu’u I upolu e ka’u o solosolo, fai mai le kala e iai le aiku o lo’o gofo ile pikogu’u ei le va o solosolo ma luakuagu’u e ka’u o vailoa…even today the people of the village solosolo still claim to see this AITU in a form of a dog or owl. According to tradition this aitu has a connection with manua. They are the only village in upolu that can go to any funeral of high chief of any village in Samoa-I -sisifo….and kakala the lagi.(AUALA). O solosolo e mafai oga ave le lakou auala I so’o se maliu ose alii kaua ose gu’u I Samoa I sisifo…These days they don’t practice this old tradition, and I don’t know the reason.
I am not sure about the lagi that samoamoni is talking about; but I think it is something to do with geneology. It is very good info to have. I am still looking into it.

Very interesting about Solosolo and Vailoa.
It would be great to see this old tradition practiced...continued.
The connection to Manu'a would be if I may give it a guess is its relation to the Faletolu....those who in other are ones who have the sole and superior right e tatala ai le lagi o se ali'i. A fa'apea o oe se Alii....na'o le Faletolu...will "open the heavens"...so to speak. It is their duty,honor and charge to do so. This was anciently reserved for the TuiManu'a. But being that there are also High Chiefs, this is an honor that has extended to other chiefs as well.

[tama upolu]

Masina wrote:

<quoted text>
Very interesting about Solosolo and Vailoa.
It would be great to see this old tradition practiced...continued.
The connection to Manu'a would be if I may give it a guess is its relation to the Faletolu....those who in other are ones who have the sole and superior right e tatala ai le lagi o se ali'i. A fa'apea o oe se Alii....na'o le Faletolu...will "open the heavens"...so to speak. It is their duty,honor and charge to do so. This was anciently reserved for the TuiManu'a. But being that there are also High Chiefs, this is an honor that has extended to other chiefs as well.

suga moon o lea lava e misi le post lea...aua le popole a kogu e oso fa'afuase'i mai ise kaimi...ga'o siga fesili??? e iai gu'u ma piko gu'u o samoa i sisifo e fa'aigoa o (MATAUTU)..o so'u kalikoguga o matautu e afua mai MANUA...e sa'o pe leai...

[Masina]

tama upolu wrote:

<quoted text>
suga moon o lea lava e misi le post lea...aua le popole a kogu e oso fa'afuase'i mai ise kaimi...ga'o siga fesili??? e iai gu'u ma piko gu'u o samoa i sisifo e fa'aigoa o (MATAUTU)..o so'u kalikoguga o matautu e afua mai MANUA...e sa'o pe leai...

I can still see the post. Maybe it will probably show up sometime on this thread....hopefully before the end of this year...lol.
Its alright...all good. It was about the ghostly encounters mai le MotuSa.
Let me try to answer your above question in another space.

[Masina]

Malo ma fa'afetai TU mo le fesili. TU oute talitonu e iai lava mo feso'ota'iga...connections and most likely origins in the place name...like for instance Matautu and its association to Manua. E iai fo'i le MATA'UTU i Savai'i...e sa'o lea? O se fesoasoani vaivai lava lea o le a ou taumafai atu iai... e uiga i lea mataupu ma tusa i lou fesili.

A fa'apea o le 'a tau sa'ili se feso'ota'iga se'i taualo atu e taga'i i nai muagagana po 'o fuaitau fa'asamoa ia ua fai ma pine fa'amau i tatou tala fa'asolopito, tala tu'utaliga ma tu'ugutu...(like the breath of life...life source breath and mana that we take in)ma po'o musumusuga fo'i mai le vavau...mai o tatou tuua.

"E tasi mai Saua, ae fa'aluaina i Mata'utu'a'ai"

O le mafua'aga o lenei fuaitau...e fa'atatau i se tala e uiga i le TuiManu'a La'a. O le TuiManu'a La'a mai Saua, Manu'a, na iai ana ava po ’o ana autaunonofo, ae na folau mai i Upolu ma taunu'u mai i Aleipata. Na usu TuiManu'a La'a ia Lagilefuli...fae'e le gafa o Samatauanu'u o le tama. O Samatauanu'u e fa'apea le tala, na fa'ae'e iai le ao lea o le TUIATUA(he later acquired this title) E fa'apea fo'i le tala...o le alofa o TuiManu'a La'a ia Lagilefuli, ua fa'apea ai o le 'a nofomau ai i Aleipata...ma ua ala ai ona aumai...si'i lona Fale’ula…po o le igoa o lana maota …”Mata’utu’a’ai” i Aleipata.

Ae peita'i e le fa'apea na solo lelei aso uma, ae ua tupu le fe'ese'esea'iga i le va o TuiManu'a La'a ma lona (ava/to'alua/masiofo) fou o Lagilefuli..ona toe fo'i loa TuiManu'a La'a i Saua...ae tu'u le igoa o lona Fale('ula) i Aleipata...Upolu.

**That is one connection I can think of from heaps of traditional/proverbial wisdom sayings...memory pins that served as an oral recording of this event. There may be other events which could possibly relate to your question...but this is one of them I know that mentions Mata'utu....or rather Mata'utu'a'ai...possibly changed or shortened later.

[Masina]

TU can you tell me if some of these place names sound familiar to you?
Alele, Lano,Toafa,Utuloa,Utulei,Matau tu???

[tama upolu]

Moon o igoa ia ga e ka’u maia, I believe there are places in Samoa that have these names like lano is a village of Savaii….i need to look at igoa ipu o makai, malae o gu’u ma pikogu’u…give me time…moon could you tell me more on these names….o matautu I sagauga ile vaimauga, fa’apea sa iai se aitu ole moa…. sa tapua’I iai malietoa sagagaimuli, po’o malietoa feai…..They said he even decorated his war canoe, he even had a picture of the moa on his war canoe. I am not talking about the malietoa clan, but I am talking about this one. Out of all of them, he is the more vicious one. Malietoa Feai, blood thirsty as he is known, that is the name that he was given. Anyway what I am trying to say the mua gagana (MUA PEA IA MEA I MATAUTU SA) and that is where this old saying comes from. Correct me if I am wrong. Before he goes to battle he prays to his god the moa….is this a manua thing with the connection to the matautu.

[Masina]

tama upolu wrote:

Moon o igoa ia ga e ka’u maia, I believe there are places in Samoa that have these names like lano is a village of Savaii….i need to look at igoa ipu o makai, malae o gu’u ma pikogu’u…give me time…moon could you tell me more on these names….o matautu I sagauga ile vaimauga, fa’apea sa iai se aitu ole moa…. sa tapua’I iai malietoa sagagaimuli, po’o malietoa feai…..They said he even decorated his war canoe, he even had a picture of the moa on his war canoe. I am not talking about the malietoa clan, but I am talking about this one. Out of all of them, he is the more vicious one. Malietoa Feai, blood thirsty as he is known, that is the name that he was given. Anyway what I am trying to say the mua gagana (MUA PEA IA MEA I MATAUTU SA) and that is where this old saying comes from. Correct me if I am wrong. Before he goes to battle he prays to his god the moa….is this a manua thing with the connection to the matautu.

Talofa there TU. Well, TU I know of that proverbial saying, as I have come across it so many times. I think quite strongly that you must be referring to MOA'ULA the aitu/deity/god that was revered in those parts...MATAUTU SA and yes that is where the proverb stems from is because of Moa'ula.

TU the only Malietoa that I am familiar with that has that epithet is Malietoafeai....his cruelty, viciousness,bloodthirsty and propensity for cannibalism was reknown....so reknown and atrocious that even word of his bloodthirstiness reached Manu'a. Could this be the same Malietoafea'i?

[tama upolu]

Yes thats the same malietoa. according to geneology some people say malietoa falefatu son of malietoa laauli was adopted. some say he is adopted from manua.and some say he is a real son. E le’o magigo le kalaaga o le malietoa falefatu, the father of malietoa feai…I believe o falefatu ole tama mai le motu sa, maybe that’s the real reason gatoaitele and falefatu had a war, because malietoa laauli favour falefatu and made him malietoa….ole malae o le vaimauga e igoa ia falefatu (ill touch on that later)….all his decendents live on that district. Matautu and the moaula, I think he brought that from manua and his son maletoa sagagaimuli continued that tradition. A lot of matais (tulafale) in Samoa use tactics in their speech and ruin the whole history. their speeches change the whole outlook of these things. To be honest when you refer to something holy or sacred you are referring to manua. This is what I think. This is why I am so interested in matautu and this particular malie toa feai. this is my opinion. i am still looking into it and trying to make sense of it all. catch you later moon.

[tama upolu]

Masina wrote:

TU can you tell me if some of these place names sound familiar to you?
Alele, Lano,Toafa,Utuloa,Utulei,Matau tu???

suga moon give us more info's e uiga igoa ia,fa'amolemole..

[tama upolu]

Masina wrote:

<quoted text>
Talofa there TU. Well, TU I know of that proverbial saying, as I have come across it so many times. I think quite strongly that you must be referring to MOA'ULA the aitu/deity/god that was revered in those parts...MATAUTU SA and yes that is where the proverb stems from is because of Moa'ula.
TU the only Malietoa that I am familiar with that has that epithet is Malietoafeai....his cruelty, viciousness,bloodthirsty and propensity for cannibalism was reknown....so reknown and atrocious that even word of his bloodthirstiness reached Manu'a. Could this be the same Malietoafea'i?

sorry moon, ole malietoa lea ouke fai aku ai o malietoa Sagagaimuli, leaga e iai fou lesi Malietoa ei igoa ia Malietoa Faisautele Faiga....e lua Malietoafea'i..