why cant american samoa be independent?

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jestr

Tonga

#1 Dec 1, 2013
Not hating, but its long overdue they should be independent.. Respect to Western Samoa but what's taking America Samoa?

Since: Feb 13

Auckland, New Zealand

#2 Dec 1, 2013
jestr wrote:
Not hating, but its long overdue they should be independent.. Respect to Western Samoa but what's taking America Samoa?
Well you probably know all about the Mau movement in Western Samoa. But what you probably don't know was that there was a Mau movement in Am. Samoa too but the American government suppressed it. Right now, those living in Am. Samoa are far too dependent on America and that's how America likes it. But who knows what the future will hold...
jestr

Tonga

#3 Dec 1, 2013
IncreaseThePeace312 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well you probably know all about the Mau movement in Western Samoa. But what you probably don't know was that there was a Mau movement in Am. Samoa too but the American government suppressed it. Right now, those living in Am. Samoa are far too dependent on America and that's how America likes it. But who knows what the future will hold...
Didnt know there was any movement there, they should keep trying to move towards independence and be reunited with western samoa
SEARIDER

Honolulu, HI

#4 Dec 1, 2013
I think u had to refer back to why it came about in the first place. The port location is ideal location for U.S's navy to maneuver strategically thus the POWERHOUSES all competing to control this location..........predetermine d to be controlled by U.S., Am Samoa fell into its ruling big brother so to speak..........but as ITP reiterated on earlier, the Mau movement complicated its smooth outcomings. This is just one of many interests U.S. wants to maintain presence in Am Samoa.
jestr

Tonga

#5 Dec 1, 2013
SEARIDER wrote:
I think u had to refer back to why it came about in the first place. The port location is ideal location for U.S's navy to maneuver strategically thus the POWERHOUSES all competing to control this location..........predetermine d to be controlled by U.S., Am Samoa fell into its ruling big brother so to speak..........but as ITP reiterated on earlier, the Mau movement complicated its smooth outcomings. This is just one of many interests U.S. wants to maintain presence in Am Samoa.
U.S should recognize the colonial days are over and should back up. Strategic or not, it doesn't mean they have the right to hold what is not American. Is there a new movement these days?
SEARIDER

Honolulu, HI

#6 Dec 1, 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Samoa

I know its a wiki site, but the context is there. Pago harbor, and Mau movement explanation solidify what ITP and myself wanted to bring to light.
jestr

Tonga

#7 Dec 1, 2013
SEARIDER wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A merican_Samoa
I know its a wiki site, but the context is there. Pago harbor, and Mau movement explanation solidify what ITP and myself wanted to bring to light.
That's messed up having the U.S suppressing the Mau movement but there's no need to give up the fight for independence. Hope they can see the light soon
SEARIDER

Honolulu, HI

#8 Dec 2, 2013
http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document/...

Increase, I couldn't find the thread in which you highlighted gagana fa'atupu aside from everyday usage of the Samoan language. This site displays some intricate usage in accordance to oratory/gagana fa'atupu, enjoy
SEARIDER

Hilo, HI

#9 Dec 2, 2013
jestr wrote:
<quoted text>
That's messed up having the U.S suppressing the Mau movement but there's no need to give up the fight for independence. Hope they can see the light soon
The fate was inevitable due to separation of the other islands. There was no one ruler to rally the rest of samoa. Samoa's obsession with gaining land thru their own little quarrels created its own separation to accumulate as one may have been its doom.

Some of the Togan poster may think we(samoan) take advantage of the system here in America and other countries such as NZ, and AUSSIE, but I look at it as a: "for all the shiet you done to my forefathers, so it will cost you"!
Benz2000

Sacramento, CA

#10 Dec 2, 2013
jestr wrote:
<quoted text>
That's messed up having the U.S suppressing the Mau movement but there's no need to give up the fight for independence. Hope they can see the light soon
Hi Jester, l believe it is a benefit for A. Samoans in various areas in life, to have access to some of t resources here in t states. T standard of living is ofcourse is higher in comparison to Samoa. For example t Spanish flu epidemic, not one person died there from t it, n not to mention access to health care n t list goes on, which would b very limited if not. I am mean whose to l say thet r better off, but this only my humble opinion.
SEARIDER

Honolulu, HI

#11 Dec 2, 2013
Huh?? Standard of survival would've always kicked in, benefiting or not isn't the question here. Resolution would have been accomplish regardless of situation. As I have stated before, Pago harbor was crucial bargaining chip for Am. Samoa and if weren't gonna be the Americans, it would've been someone else

Your Influenza trump card you keep dropping here holds no merit. It definitely feels like a slap in the face towards Samoans when you constantly refer back to it as if it didn't effect Toga as well! 3-5 % of the worlds population was affected but yet you bring it to clarify an opinion why it would make it better for Am Samoa to benefit from U.S being primary source. I'm sure you can find or utilize another form of illustration to better fit Jestre's clear and to the point question.
jestr

Tonga

#12 Dec 2, 2013
Benz2000 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Jester, l believe it is a benefit for A. Samoans in various areas in life, to have access to some of t resources here in t states. T standard of living is ofcourse is higher in comparison to Samoa. For example t Spanish flu epidemic, not one person died there from t it, n not to mention access to health care n t list goes on, which would b very limited if not. I am mean whose to l say thet r better off, but this only my humble opinion.
I guess they are benefits, but I reckon there are benefits being independent too and I guess we just gotta see which outweighs the other. I'm more towards independence ay
jestr

Tonga

#13 Dec 2, 2013
SEARIDER wrote:
<quoted text>
The fate was inevitable due to separation of the other islands. There was no one ruler to rally the rest of samoa. Samoa's obsession with gaining land thru their own little quarrels created its own separation to accumulate as one may have been its doom.
Some of the Togan poster may think we(samoan) take advantage of the system here in America and other countries such as NZ, and AUSSIE, but I look at it as a: "for all the shiet you done to my forefathers, so it will cost you"!
Hawaii looks alright but when I see movies or posters of it, it doesn't feel Polynesian anymore. I'm worried if American Samoa continues just laying idly by they gonna lose a great deal of identity and self worth maybe. Yeah all the independent island states are struggling but it makes it worth it when independent.
Benz2000

Sacramento, CA

#14 Dec 2, 2013
SEARIDER wrote:
Huh?? Standard of survival would've always kicked in, benefiting or not isn't the question here. Resolution would have been accomplish regardless of situation. As I have stated before, Pago harbor was crucial bargaining chip for Am. Samoa and if weren't gonna be the Americans, it would've been someone else
Your Influenza trump card you keep dropping here holds no merit. It definitely feels like a slap in the face towards Samoans when you constantly refer back to it as if it didn't effect Toga as well! 3-5 % of the worlds population was affected but yet you bring it to clarify an opinion why it would make it better for Am Samoa to benefit from U.S being primary source. I'm sure you can find or utilize another form of illustration to better fit Jestre's clear and to the point question.
I don't mean any disrespect when referencing to t Spanish flu epidemic, but it is t truth, there was not one causality, in A. Samoa. T astrocity that occurred in Samoa was no fault of t natives, it was direct a order of that racist NZ governor, n for t record l am not in t business of findng fault in Samoa, just t truth.

Upon signing over Fiji, Cakobau took a trip w t Brits to see Oz n he n a few Fijians contracted t measles there n brought it bavk home, which wiped up 40,000 Fijians in a short period, it wasn't deliberate, like t case w t racist NZ governor, but it is a price that many natives have paid, w t lives of they own people in t name of progress. Tonga, has had many a black eyes, but no knock outs, cause we avoided anexation.

I am w Jester, in t notion of returning A. Samoa back, but l've been known to comment against it in t past. If what u r saying about Pago Habor is true, why, couldn't it b leased to t U.S. n A. Samoa return back to t natives, it most certainly will b of help for Samoa, if they centralized leadership n commerce n forward to a bigger n better economy for both.
Benz2000

Sacramento, CA

#15 Dec 2, 2013
jestr wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess they are benefits, but I reckon there are benefits being independent too and I guess we just gotta see which outweighs the other. I'm more towards independence ay
I am w u on this toko, we do advance in t name of progress, but in peril of loosing our cultures, languages, n identity. T rest of Polynesia is t same way, n Hawaii is t biggest casualty, because of it's geographic location, made it a military victory for any world power, n for all us we r lucky it was t U.S, very much t same w A. Samoa. I don't agree w how t circumstances went down, but nevertheless, t U.S. was t best of all evils, in my humble opinion.
SEARIDER

Honolulu, HI

#16 Dec 2, 2013
I don't know jestr, EVOLUTION to me makes a lot more sense than to try and mentally free thyself from what you would consider invisible shackles. For me, it wouldn't make any difference as to who or what is leading, personal gains seems to always interfere for the good of the people. Every nation, every country, and every political group has an agenda in which to structure the status quo in their favors. The domino affect trickles from there, religion, community, aiga, and then to urself. Where does it end?

Here's an illustration Jestr, take Shirley Baker, his interest for tonga's independent had nothing to do with him manipulating the future of tonga. Personal gains was his motivation to succeed at any cost.

Is it a curse for Tonga to be indendent, or is it a curse for Am. Samoa to still be under leadership of U.S?
SEARIDER

Honolulu, HI

#17 Dec 2, 2013
jestr wrote:
<quoted text>
Hawaii looks alright but when I see movies or posters of it, it doesn't feel Polynesian anymore. I'm worried if American Samoa continues just laying idly by they gonna lose a great deal of identity and self worth maybe. Yeah all the independent island states are struggling but it makes it worth it when independent.
In my own opinion, for Hawaii, it was just a matter of time. When the missionaries came, the BARONS came as well. Work became overwhelming for just the kanaka's alone that it allowed these Barons to manipulate and structure ways to import other workers(Chinese, Portuguese) to manage workload.

The results were devastating, the overtaking of their kingdom,and the inprisonment of their queen. So, in reference to Am. Samoa ceding to U.S, thus was the thinking of her majesty to peacefully surrender rather than have the blood of her people on her hands. This is the same way the Tui Manu'a felt when he signed over the independence of his people, as well as Mau movement of Am. Samoa.
jestr

Tonga

#18 Dec 2, 2013
SEARIDER wrote:
I don't know jestr, EVOLUTION to me makes a lot more sense than to try and mentally free thyself from what you would consider invisible shackles. For me, it wouldn't make any difference as to who or what is leading, personal gains seems to always interfere for the good of the people. Every nation, every country, and every political group has an agenda in which to structure the status quo in their favors. The domino affect trickles from there, religion, community, aiga, and then to urself. Where does it end?
Here's an illustration Jestr, take Shirley Baker, his interest for tonga's independent had nothing to do with him manipulating the future of tonga. Personal gains was his motivation to succeed at any cost.
Is it a curse for Tonga to be indendent, or is it a curse for Am. Samoa to still be under leadership of U.S?
Evolution is not waving a foreign flag on your land, evolution is not surrendering land of your forefathers to a foreign nation. Invisible shackles it may be but it has broken a peoples identity. What will a people become if they dont know who they are?

Algud doing cultural dances and stuff in a foreign land but itll be like Israelites wandering around the desert, even they needed a promise land. When Tongans go out to foreign countries, they at least will know they can come Tonga.

I disagree with that Shirley Baker statement, maybe start a new thread for that discussion.
American Samoan view

Los Angeles, CA

#19 Dec 2, 2013
The question you need to ask is: "Why should American Samoa" be independent. Being independent does not mean everything will be perfect or great. To make that assumption is to assume that the State of Hawaii or the State of California would be much better off independent.

American Samoan's chose to be part of the United States; not the other way around. If you look at history, American Samoans were always entertaining a relationship with the United States before 1900. American Samoa continues to be an "Unincorporated" Territory of the United States, which means, American Samoans are NOT full US citizens (they are the only US possession where they are referred to as US Nationals). It is equivalent to being part independent/and part American. So for instance, All US territory (Guam, Virgin Islands, Northern Marianas) born individuals are US Citizens upon birth, whereas in American Samoa, they are US Nationals upon birth. Immigration and Customs are administered by the US Government (Homeland Security) in the US Territories whereas, American Samoa administers its own Customs and Immigration department, independent of the US.

American Samoa has benefited from its 113 year relationship with the US.

Is there a benefit for American Samoa to be independent? Not at this point. Unless you have a strong, independent economy which American Samoa does not (however, it has a larger export economy then many South Pacific island countries) and higher GDP, American Samoa will continue its current relationship with the US. Many American Samoans are not pro-independent as they see greater benefits aligning with the US, but staying semi-independent (i.e. Not a US State, and not a US "incorporated" Territory like Guam, etc.)

Independence for the sake of Independence a stupid reason. There has to be a good reason, other than "its nice to be", or "you should be". American Samoan's in their own right are already independent on their own; and do drive their own destiny today, more so then in the past. We elected our own Legislature, Governor and appoint our own judges without interference form Washington DC. Our leaders were elected even before many South Pacific countries become independent or, minimized the monarchy they have today.
American Samoan view

Los Angeles, CA

#20 Dec 2, 2013
jestr wrote:
Not hating, but its long overdue they should be independent.. Respect to Western Samoa but what's taking America Samoa?
Why? Why should American Samoa be independent? Because every South Pacific island is?

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