How democracy works in Western Europe comparing to Khazar Russia

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Since: Sep 11

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#1
Sep 4, 2011
 

Since: Apr 11

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#2
Sep 4, 2011
 

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There is no democracy in the West,
anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.
Romanov.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

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#3
Sep 5, 2011
 

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There is democracy in the west. It works best in small communities. Direct democracy does not scale. And representative democracy tends to get distorted and abused.

Western local democracy (in Switzerland, in Nordic countries, etc.) is incomparably better than Russian local democracy.
Lukashenko is Dr Phil

Tampere, Finland

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#4
Sep 5, 2011
 

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LOL what democracy? You mean two world wars and serfdom. Not that Russia is any better. As for small countries I think they can't operate democracy in peace if having such aggressive neighbours as Russia.
ronan

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#5
Sep 5, 2011
 

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How can one compare democracy in Western Europe where it has existed for 250 years in some countries, 2 centuries for others, in some only 120/150 years with the state of democracy in Russia.

It's just like asking why a toddler cannot run as fast as a 20 years old man!

Even in countries with long democratic tradition, democracy isn't perfect as we know. Our democratically elected leaders still commit the odious crimes, and transparency is just a myth.
Moving from a totalitarian regime to full blown democracy is just as difficult as changing from a collective system to liberal economy; there are bumps on the road.

People should really start comparing the countries around 2050, and not before.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

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#6
Sep 6, 2011
 
ronan wrote:
How can one compare democracy in Western Europe where it has existed for 250 years in some countries, 2 centuries for others, in some only 120/150 years with the state of democracy in Russia.
Huh?
120/150 years of democracy in Russia???

You mean sporadic decades during the 9-12th centuries AD? Or before that?

The Novgorod Veeche democracy was based on finno-ugric traditions.
The finno-ugric democracy goes back to over 2000 years.

In fact, democracy is older than civilisation.
ronan wrote:
Even in countries with long democratic tradition, democracy isn't perfect as we know. Our democratically elected leaders still commit the odious crimes, and transparency is just a myth.
That is the result of a hijacked representative democracy.
ronan wrote:
Moving from a totalitarian regime to full blown democracy is just as difficult as changing from a collective system to liberal economy; there are bumps on the road.
Sure, but it has to start from grass-roots efforts, ie. local direct democracy.

Since: Apr 11

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#7
Sep 6, 2011
 

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There is no democracy in the West,
anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.
Romanov.
ronan

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#8
Sep 6, 2011
 

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tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh?
120/150 years of democracy in Russia???
Where did you see me say that Russia had 120/150 years of democracy?

I wrote:

"How can one compare democracy in Western Europe where it has existed for 250 years in some countries, 2 centuries for others, in some only 120/150 years with the state of democracy in Russia."

I clearly said that democracy exited 250 years in some Western Europe countries (England?), 200 years in others (France?), or only 120/150 in some others (Germany, Italy). These are approximation anyway.

Democracy exists in Russia only since 1991, or thereabouts.
There has never been multi-party plural democracy before, nor universal people's representation.
Even the Duma under Nicolas II after the 1905 troubles wasn't truly democratic; he dismissed it anyway.
Only since 1991 can Russians freely elect their representatives, and their leaders.

So, expecting from a nascent democracy all the virtues (?) of established ones is rather utopic. No, it's downright foolish.

As for 'direct democracy' it's alright, but only works on a small scale.
The Swiss cantons are very small, and only people who can travel to the public assemblies can vote, therefore it doesn't work miracle. Ballot box still exist in Switzerland, by the way. Mostly trivial issues are decided after 'direct democracy'.

But you cannot transpose that system on a large scale in countries with large population, like Russia, the US, Germany, and so on...

Since: Jan 10

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#9
Sep 6, 2011
 

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ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you see me say that Russia had 120/150 years of democracy?
I wrote:
"How can one compare democracy in Western Europe where it has existed for 250 years in some countries, 2 centuries for others, in some only 120/150 years with the state of democracy in Russia."
I clearly said that democracy exited 250 years in some Western Europe countries (England?), 200 years in others (France?), or only 120/150 in some others (Germany, Italy). These are approximation anyway.
Democracy exists in Russia only since 1991, or thereabouts.
There has never been multi-party plural democracy before, nor universal people's representation.
Even the Duma under Nicolas II after the 1905 troubles wasn't truly democratic; he dismissed it anyway.
Only since 1991 can Russians freely elect their representatives, and their leaders.
So, expecting from a nascent democracy all the virtues (?) of established ones is rather utopic. No, it's downright foolish.
As for 'direct democracy' it's alright, but only works on a small scale.
The Swiss cantons are very small, and only people who can travel to the public assemblies can vote, therefore it doesn't work miracle. Ballot box still exist in Switzerland, by the way. Mostly trivial issues are decided after 'direct democracy'.
But you cannot transpose that system on a large scale in countries with large population, like Russia, the US, Germany, and so on...
Exactly. Don't forget that 120-200 years ago, these countries had much smaller populations too. In 1780, the population here was under 3 million and was also much smaller in terms of land.

Since: Aug 11

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#10
Sep 7, 2011
 

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Democracy is dead on the West. Get over it.

Since: Apr 11

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#11
Sep 7, 2011
 

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ShoutingGuard wrote:
Democracy is dead on the West. Get over it.
.

Quite right.

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