Is Putin Finno-Ugric?

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Sasha

Khimki, Russia

#1 Feb 24, 2008
Yaak Prozes – the leader of center “Fenno-Ugria” has published article “Evidently Putin is veps” on Estonia portal Delfi.
http://rus.delfi.ee/projects/opinion/article....

“A Finno-Ugric trace in Russian genetic is not news. A matter is whether we shall want to recognize this. For many Estonians it will be as pain in heart. Russians can mean it as the extremely offensive.
………………….

As for Putin he apparently has Finno-Ugric roots - obviously he occurs from a nationality Vepses. From this is impossible to draw serious conclusions. Lenin and Molotov had Mordovian roots. The Finno-Ugric origin does not mean the big love to the tribesmen. It is possible to give a remarkable example: Mordvinians (Erzya and Moksha)– members of Mordovian Republic parliament had not wished, that their language became state. Just Russians protected such bill”.
Sasha

Khimki, Russia

#2 Feb 24, 2008
Yaak Prozes did mistake. Lenin had no Mordovian roots. His father was Chuvash and his mother was German.
Krishnamurty

Toronto, Canada

#3 Feb 24, 2008
Presence of Y Haplogroup N is found at high rates in Finnic peoples. Its presence in Russians attests to Russian tribes mixing with Finno-Uralic peoples in northern Eurasia.

Why should this be of any concern?

The more genetic, diversity the better.

New breakthroughs in genetic research show that all of us can trace our genetic ancestry, via Y chromosome markers -- ultimately to ancestors of African Bushmen --The San people of the Kalahari.

If you look at pictures of the Sans, you will see features of peoples of all continents.

In reality, modern genetics shows all human beings are related.

We are all distant cousins from the primordial past.

Old racial theories about supremacy of one group over another have led to literal fratricide.

I hope the more people learn genetics the less they will believe in the old invalid ideas that fan hatreds and separate us.

http://www.eyesonafrica.net/african-safari-bo...
Sasha

Russia

#4 Feb 24, 2008
Krishnamurty wrote:
Presence of Y Haplogroup N is found at high rates in Finnic peoples. Its presence in Russians attests to Russian tribes mixing with Finno-Uralic peoples in northern Eurasia.
Why should this be of any concern?
The more genetic, diversity the better.
New breakthroughs in genetic research show that all of us can trace our genetic ancestry, via Y chromosome markers -- ultimately to ancestors of African Bushmen --The San people of the Kalahari.
If you look at pictures of the Sans, you will see features of peoples of all continents.
In reality, modern genetics shows all human beings are related.
We are all distant cousins from the primordial past.
Old racial theories about supremacy of one group over another have led to literal fratricide.
I hope the more people learn genetics the less they will believe in the old invalid ideas that fan hatreds and separate us.
http://www.eyesonafrica.net/african-safari-bo...
Genetic doesn’t mean anything for Russians. Even Russians geneticists say that Russian is who speaks Russian, regards Russia as native country and regards himself as Russian. This article is copied in some Russians internet sites like curious. And the author of the article isn’t Russian.

I think that it is only funny common tendency of association with famous popular person.
Sasha

Moscow, Russia

#5 Mar 15, 2008
Aborigine peoples of Karelia can put forward the president of Russia Vladimir Putin as the delegate on the World congress of Finno-Ugric peoples which will pass in June 2008 in Khanty-Mansiysk. With such initiative the leader of association " Karelian congress " Grigorev has acted.
Putin can become the delegate from veps people. " There are many proofs that the present president of Russia has veps roots therefore his participation in the congress as the representative of veps people will be quite legitimate ",- has told Grigorev.

He has noted that to the beginning of the Congress Putin will not be the president of Russia, but his presence on a forum as the delegate will raise prestige of this action.

http://www.regions.ru/news/2129880
tarmo

Estonia

#6 Mar 15, 2008
Sasha wrote:
Aborigine peoples of Karelia can put forward the president of Russia Vladimir Putin as the delegate on the World congress of Finno-Ugric peoples which will pass in June 2008 in Khanty-Mansiysk. With such initiative the leader of association " Karelian congress " Grigorev has acted.
Putin can become the delegate from veps people. " There are many proofs that the present president of Russia has veps roots therefore his participation in the congress as the representative of veps people will be quite legitimate ",- has told Grigorev.
He has noted that to the beginning of the Congress Putin will not be the president of Russia, but his presence on a forum as the delegate will raise prestige of this action.
http://www.regions.ru/news/2129880
If Putin speaks vepsa or karelian language, then fine. Otherwise he will just represent those finnic people who have been russified. And indeed, Putin is exemplary in that respect.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#7 Mar 15, 2008
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
If Putin speaks vepsa or karelian language, then fine. Otherwise he will just represent those finnic people who have been russified. And indeed, Putin is exemplary in that respect.
Proof that is you come from a weak ethnic minority but join a larger one, you increase your chances.

Had Putin insisted in going back to his ancestors' roots (vespa or karelian), he would have reduced his chances of success.

By accepting Russification, he joined the mainstream in his nation, obtained promotion and became President of the Russian Federation.

You can't give a better example to illustrate the benefit of russification!!
tarmo

Estonia

#8 Mar 15, 2008
Robespierre wrote:
<quoted text>
By accepting Russification, he joined the mainstream in his nation, obtained promotion and became President of the Russian Federation...
...and thus effectively cut all ties to his former nation. He is without history. Those who forget history, won't have a future.
Robespierre wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't give a better example to illustrate the benefit of russification!!
Let me add some more examples:
your beloved Stalin and Hitler. One used to be a georgian, the other an aussie. All good examples. Some russians even claim that Putin is better than Hitler, but the Russian police had a different opinion and put them in jail, so I guess Putin is not better than Hitler afterall.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#9 Mar 15, 2008
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
...and thus effectively cut all ties to his former nation. He is without history. Those who forget history, won't have a future.
<quoted text>
Let me add some more examples:
your beloved Stalin and Hitler. One used to be a georgian, the other an aussie. All good examples. Some russians even claim that Putin is better than Hitler, but the Russian police had a different opinion and put them in jail, so I guess Putin is not better than Hitler afterall.
You are an utter idiot, I'll give you that !!

You are obsessed by nationalism, probably why you support fascism.

By cutting his ties with an inferior nation and joining the Russian mainstream, the guy did himself a favour and succeded.

And what a success Putin achieved in 8 years.
Probably the present head of state who leave the best legacy behind him, after being the leader of one of the most powerful country.

Hitler was not obssesed with Austria, he believed in pan-Germany and knew that he had to sacrifice his little antecedents to the benefit of a Greater Germany.

Stalin, dear Stalin, was the same. Rather than clinging desperatly to his Caucassus origins, he embrassed Russia and understood that little silly nationalism had to be crushed aside for the greater good of the whole Soviet Union.

Great nations give great men!!
What great men came out of eSStonia?
Krishnamurty

Toronto, Canada

#10 Mar 15, 2008
A genocidal, colonialist and imperialist Russia produced a genocidal, colonialist and imperialist Stalin --the partner of Hitler until 1941.

Such a fine couple!
http://www.johannorberg.net/UserFiles/Image/h...
Sasha

Moscow, Russia

#11 Mar 16, 2008
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
If Putin speaks vepsa or karelian language, then fine. Otherwise he will just represent those finnic people who have been russified. And indeed, Putin is exemplary in that respect.
Such great country as Russia gives to Russian citizens including Finno-Ugric people great opportunities. Not one Finno-Ugric country can give such opportunities to Finno-Ugric people as Russia. There isn’t any national enmity in Russia. All Russian citizens have equal opportunities and can reach a great success.

It is pity that it is otherwise in Estonia. It is bad for Estonia because country with nazi traditions depriving part of people the opportunity to be having equal rights members of society limits own opportunities to have great nation persons.

It isn’t important you like Putin or no. Putin is a brand of Russia and he is a person who is well-known in the world. Most people of different countries sympathize to him..

Finno-Ugric people want Putin will be a brand of Finno-Ugric people because such famous person as Putin can increase popularity of Finno-Ugric culture in the world.
Sasha

Moscow, Russia

#12 Mar 16, 2008
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
...and thus effectively cut all ties to his former nation. He is without history. Those who forget history, won't have a future.
<quoted text>
Let me add some more examples:
your beloved Stalin and Hitler. One used to be a georgian, the other an aussie. All good examples. Some russians even claim that Putin is better than Hitler, but the Russian police had a different opinion and put them in jail, so I guess Putin is not better than Hitler afterall.
I consider your idiotic pronouncement is provoked by your annoyance.
It is insulting for you that Finno-Ugric person born in Russia can become the person known all over the world.
But Estonia as the country with traditions of Nazism can not create great people for all world.
tarmo

Estonia

#13 Mar 16, 2008
Sasha wrote:
<quoted text>
Such great country as Russia gives to Russian citizens including Finno-Ugric people great opportunities. Not one Finno-Ugric country can give such opportunities to Finno-Ugric people as Russia. There isn’t any national enmity in Russia. All Russian citizens have equal opportunities and can reach a great success.
Yes, the Soviet Union had the same fairy tale. I have been hearing that since my birth, but it doesn't affect me, because I am immune to it ;-)

If Russian government gives those finno-ugric nations ICT tools to translate to and from their languages, gives spelling, text-to-speech and speech-to-text tools, etc., and do it before Finland or Estonia or Hungary, then I might believe some of that.
Sasha wrote:
<quoted text>
It is pity that it is otherwise in Estonia. It is bad for Estonia because country with nazi traditions depriving part of people the opportunity to be having equal rights members of society limits own opportunities to have great nation persons.
I am sorry, does Russia allow a vepsan or karelian person to become the President of Russian Federation, if that person does not speak russian language? I didn't think so.

There are equal rights and then there are equal rights.
Sasha wrote:
<quoted text>
It isn’t important you like Putin or no. Putin is a brand of Russia and he is a person who is well-known in the world. Most people of different countries sympathize to him..
Finno-Ugric people want Putin will be a brand of Finno-Ugric people because such famous person as Putin can increase popularity of Finno-Ugric culture in the world.
Well, there are also many finno-ugric people who would not like to see Putin as a representative of finno-ugric people. That is, at least unless Putin fluently speaks vepsa or karelian language.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#14 Mar 16, 2008
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, there are also many finno-ugric people who would not like to see Putin as a representative of finno-ugric people. That is, at least unless Putin fluently speaks vepsa or karelian language.
Who needs to speak silly inferior crap language of a conquered civilisation!!

Putin speaks Russian!!
Sasha

Moscow, Russia

#15 Mar 16, 2008
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, there are also many finno-ugric people who would not like to see Putin as a representative of finno-ugric people. That is, at least unless Putin fluently speaks vepsa or karelian language.
As soon as I know Putin speak fluently English and Germanic. I am sure he doesn’t know Karelian or Vepsa. But it isn’t important because this will be congress of people not of languages. And all Finno-Ugric people of Russia speak Russian. I read some responses of Finno-Ugric people of Russia who were in such congress in Hungary some year ago. They were no satisfied that the work language was English in that congress because they didn’t know English. After that such congresses began to do in Russia.
I think that all Finno-Ugric people except Estonians will be glad to see Putin in congress (sure if he will agree to visit this congress). But I am not sure that Estonia will be invited to this congress this year. Last year Estonia was no invited.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#16 Mar 16, 2008
Sasha wrote:
<quoted text>
As soon as I know Putin speak fluently English and Germanic. I am sure he doesn’t know Karelian or Vepsa. But it isn’t important because this will be congress of people not of languages. And all Finno-Ugric people of Russia speak Russian. I read some responses of Finno-Ugric people of Russia who were in such congress in Hungary some year ago. They were no satisfied that the work language was English in that congress because they didn’t know English. After that such congresses began to do in Russia.
I think that all Finno-Ugric people except Estonians will be glad to see Putin in congress (sure if he will agree to visit this congress). But I am not sure that Estonia will be invited to this congress this year. Last year Estonia was no invited.
Probably fascists are not welcome!!!

LOL
Matti

Turenki, Finland

#17 Mar 16, 2008
In North-European part of taiga original people were of Finno-Ugric race. Today people there speak Russian, but have plenty of Finnish genes?

It is easier to change language than genes!

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#18 Mar 16, 2008
Matti wrote:
It is easier to change language than genes!
Try to tell that to Tarmo.

He pretends it take 1000 years!!!

Most people manage in one generation....
tarmo

Estonia

#19 Mar 16, 2008
Robespierre wrote:
<quoted text>
Try to tell that to Tarmo.
He pretends it take 1000 years!!!
Most people manage in one generation....
No, most of the immigrants don't manage to integrate into the local society in 2-3 generations - it is evident all over the world. The complete process will usually take 500 or up to 1000 years.
The genes are even more resistant.
tarmo

Estonia

#20 Mar 16, 2008
Sasha wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sure he doesn’t know Karelian or Vepsa. But it isn’t important because this will be congress of people not of languages. And all Finno-Ugric people of Russia speak Russian.
Sure. It is convenient and fine to speak russian in the conference. But this is the matter of principle - a representative of finno-ugric people has to be able to speak the language of the people whom he represents.

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