More racism from Estonia

More racism from Estonia

Posted in the Russia Forum

First Prev
of 7
Next Last
Jazz singer

Gravesend, UK

#1 Dec 18, 2008
Estonia to launch nationalist campaign to humiliate Russian-speaking population

Source: Pravda.Ru

Estonia is launching a new campaign for the assimilation of the Russian-speaking population. The Russians residing in Estonia will be pushed towards changing their Russian surnames to Estonian surnames. The administration of the Baltic nation decided to use such a measure to conceal its absolute inability to struggle against the financial crisis, which had put the three Baltic states on the edge of the economic collapse.

Estonia’s Internal Affairs Ministry intends to amend the Law about Names. In other words, those wishing to become integrated into the Estonian society will be forced to change their names to make them sound like typical Estonian names.
The bill particularly says that a citizen can obtain a new surname under his or her reasonable wish, if a citizen wants to bear an Estonian surname with a view to become integrated into the Estonian society. The amendment has a rather “progressive” objective: to simplify the procedure for the provision of Estonian names. Nothing is said about the fact that people will have to bid farewell to their Russian names for good.

Estonia’s Postimees newspaper wrote that a well-known footballer Konstantin Kolbasenko became Konstantin Nakhk in 2001.“I and my wife discussed the issue, and, since we live in Estonia , we decided that an Estonian surname would fit us better,” the footballer said. Kolbasenko simply took the last name of his Estonian wife.

The effective law contains eight arguments for changing one’s name. One may file a petition for a new surname if the old surname is either complicated or linguistically cacophonous.
It is worthy of note that the current name-changing campaign is not the first one in Estonia. The country already held one during the 1930s, when the nation was living under the rule of dictator Konstantin Pyats. People would renounce their German and take Estonian names instead. However, it did not stop many Estonians from becoming staunch allies of Nazi Germany several years later.

Latvia, Estonia’s neighboring state, began to deliberately distort Russian names and surnames soon after the nation declared independence. They would add ‘–s’ flexions at the end of Russian names. For example, Vladimir Ivanov would be altered to Vladimirs Ivanovs to give the Latvian spirit to the purely Russian name. Those having the sound ‘sh’ in their names would have it replaced with ‘s’– for example ‘Siskins’ instead of ‘Shishkin.’ The new name -‘Siskins’ would sound humiliating to its bearer, for the Russian word ‘siski’ translates as ‘boobs,’ whereas ‘shishka’ means a ‘pine cone.’
Nowadays, Estonian officials can change the Russian surname ‘Novikov’ to ‘Noovikoff’,‘Nikitin’ to ‘Niikitinn’,‘Kovalenko’ to ‘Kovaalenk’,‘Petrenko’ to ‘Petereenk’, etc. All this would be presented as a positive situation to exemplify the naturalization of the Russian-speaking population willing to become full-fledged Estonian citizens. Needless to say that no one in the Estonian authorities will wonder whether any Estonian Russians ever wish to change their names like that.
The name-changing campaign and Estonia’s tense relations with Russia aim to distract people’s attention from the severe consequences of the economic crisis. The country nears its economic collapse. Apparently, the Estonian government considered that it would be best to initiate another outburst of Russophobia. Many Estonian guest-workers have been fired from their jobs in Sweden and Finland, and many of them are expected to return to their motherland to exacerbate the social situation further on.

Vadim Trukhachev

Pravda.ru forum. The place where truth hurts
Question

Finland

#2 Dec 19, 2008
At least they didn't kill 113 foreign looking guys this year alone.
Jazz singer

Gravesend, UK

#3 Dec 19, 2008
Question wrote:
At least they didn't kill 113 foreign looking guys this year alone.
Two wrongs don't make one right.

Killing foreigners is despicable, so is blatantly discriminating against ethnic minorities.

How Estonia can keep its membership of the European Union, I don't know. Everyone of its actions is against the principles of what the EU stands for and against the European Charter of Human Rights.

Europe made a big mistake in accepting these moraly deficient countries.

Forcing people to change their names? Mussolini would be so proud; that's what he was also inflicting on his minorities.
Matti

Finland

#4 Dec 19, 2008
Jazz singer wrote:
<quoted text>
Two wrongs don't make one right.
Killing foreigners is despicable, so is blatantly discriminating against ethnic minorities.
How Estonia can keep its membership of the European Union, I don't know. Everyone of its actions is against the principles of what the EU stands for and against the European Charter of Human Rights.
Europe made a big mistake in accepting these moraly deficient countries.
Forcing people to change their names? Mussolini would be so proud; that's what he was also inflicting on his minorities.
There was nothing mentioned of forcing to change the names.
On the contrary the circumstances in Esronia for Rusians is better than the circumstances for ethnical Caucasians in RF today. In Russia you will loose your job and your neighbours are suspicious and unfriendly toward you.

Not to speak how things were during Stalin time. Then when you for example had Finnish surname, you was likely to sent to elimination camp and if you survived (most did not) you could not any more return to your old home. That was really racial and for many minorities a genocide.

You must be a zealot not understanding bigger contexts in the world.
Jazz singer

Gravesend, UK

#5 Dec 19, 2008
Matti wrote:
<quoted text>
There was nothing mentioned of forcing to change the names.
Not to speak how things were during Stalin time. Then when you for example had Finnish surname, you was likely to sent to elimination camp and if you survived (most did not) you could not any more return to your old home. That was really racial and for many minorities a genocide.
Read the article again! It specifically mentions name-change as a mean of harassing Russian ethnics in Estonia.
Read it again; this is what is said, and with examples for you to ponder.
Don't just accept it because it's your beloved Estonia doing it against Russians whom you seem to despise.
All your posts are bias and on the same tone!
Now, I do not want to speak about Stalin time; that was more than 50 years ago. The actors of that era are all but dead by now.
There is no need to be constantly looking in the past to justify the wrong deeds committed today.
We are supposed to have overcome the mistakes of the past and learnt from them: there is no reasons to repeat them to feel better and rejoyce in glee at their enactment now.
Matti

Finland

#6 Dec 19, 2008
Jazz singer wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the article again! It specifically mentions name-change as a mean of harassing Russian ethnics in Estonia.
Read it again; this is what is said, and with examples for you to ponder.
Don't just accept it because it's your beloved Estonia doing it against Russians whom you seem to despise.
All your posts are bias and on the same tone!
Now, I do not want to speak about Stalin time; that was more than 50 years ago. The actors of that era are all but dead by now.
There is no need to be constantly looking in the past to justify the wrong deeds committed today.
We are supposed to have overcome the mistakes of the past and learnt from them: there is no reasons to repeat them to feel better and rejoyce in glee at their enactment now.
Let's speak then of Chcheny. Or Balkan. Or Kongo. Or Zimbabve. Or Afgahnistan. Or Irak. Or Sudan. Or Iran etc.
BTW for me Stalin is a real person, not a historical person. May be is for me as real than for you for example Gorbachov and Reagan or Yeltsin.
Jazz singer

Gravesend, UK

#7 Dec 19, 2008
Matti wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's speak then of Chcheny. Or Balkan. Or Kongo. Or Zimbabve. Or Afgahnistan. Or Irak. Or Sudan. Or Iran etc.
BTW for me Stalin is a real person, not a historical person. May be is for me as real than for you for example Gorbachov and Reagan or Yeltsin.
Changing subject when it becomes too embarassing for you to discuss, eh?

I am not bothered about what happens in "Chcheny. Or Balkan. Or Kongo. Or Zimbabve. Or Afgahnistan. Or Irak. Or Sudan. Or Iran etc.".

I am not associated with these countries. But Estonia is an European country, belonging like my country to the EU and NATO. We are supposed to share the same principles, the same laws, follow the same rules and abide by the same charter, no?

Beside, Estonia is, I am sure, quite happy to benefit being a part of the EU and NATO. So what can't Estonia behave in a civilised manner and follow the moral code the EU and NATO stand for?

Stalin, just like Gorbachov and Reagan or Yeltsin, is a man of the past. They are mostly dead is you notice, so absolutely irrelevent to todays' problems. Constant reference to Stalin is a blanket excuse for the Baltics to do anything they want, a rather poor excuse.

How far back do you want to go? Ghenhis Khan or Ivan Grozny? We are dealing with thew present and the future; the past is gone and we can't change it.
Matti

Finland

#8 Dec 19, 2008
Jazz singer wrote:
<quoted text>
Changing subject when it becomes too embarassing for you to discuss, eh?
I am not bothered about what happens in "Chcheny. Or Balkan. Or Kongo. Or Zimbabve. Or Afgahnistan. Or Irak. Or Sudan. Or Iran etc.".
I am not associated with these countries. But Estonia is an European country, belonging like my country to the EU and NATO. We are supposed to share the same principles, the same laws, follow the same rules and abide by the same charter, no?
Beside, Estonia is, I am sure, quite happy to benefit being a part of the EU and NATO. So what can't Estonia behave in a civilised manner and follow the moral code the EU and NATO stand for?
Stalin, just like Gorbachov and Reagan or Yeltsin, is a man of the past. They are mostly dead is you notice, so absolutely irrelevent to todays' problems. Constant reference to Stalin is a blanket excuse for the Baltics to do anything they want, a rather poor excuse.
How far back do you want to go? Ghenhis Khan or Ivan Grozny? We are dealing with thew present and the future; the past is gone and we can't change it.
For most people the past still has some influence.
Had UK been ransacked by Germans during the war, the Germans had had all kind of priviledges compared to the native Britons, 10% of original Britons had been sent to German salt mines to starve (many to death), Germans had confiscated all the property of original Britons, the Britons had been forced to speak German and the services in English language had not been good, the occupation had ended first 15 years ago and there would live 20 million Germans in UK not willing to learn english or willing to move back to Germany.
The Germans in UK (and also official Germany) would in every forum cry, that Russians are mistreated in UK by Britons and that UK is not respecting any human rights.
I am 100% sure, that Britons would be as angry against Germany and Germans like Estonians today are against Russians.

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

#9 Dec 19, 2008
Question wrote:
At least they didn't kill 113 foreign looking guys this year alone.
Comparing a racist government policy to criminal acts by individuals?

How moronic.
Jazz singer

Gravesend, UK

#10 Dec 19, 2008
Matti wrote:
<quoted text>
For most people the past still has some influence.
Had UK been ransacked by Germans during the war, the Germans had had all kind of priviledges compared to the native Britons, 10% of original Britons had been sent to German salt mines to starve (many to death), Germans had confiscated all the property of original Britons, the Britons had been forced to speak German and the services in English language had not been good, the occupation had ended first 15 years ago and there would live 20 million Germans in UK not willing to learn english or willing to move back to Germany.
The Germans in UK (and also official Germany) would in every forum cry, that Russians are mistreated in UK by Britons and that UK is not respecting any human rights.
I am 100% sure, that Britons would be as angry against Germany and Germans like Estonians today are against Russians.
This is where you don't know the Brits.

We are very adaptable people, and don't succumb so easily to xenophobia.

Beside we are an optimistic nation and we see the good side of things and ignore the bad ones.

Anglo-Saxons, are by definition of Germanic origins, and they are the majority in the British Isles - Scotland, Wales and Ireland apart. So, we know all about foreign 'invasion' and 'occupation'.

We Brits don't speak Gaellic anymore, but English, derived from the languages of our invaders (Anglo-Saxons, Norse Vikings and French from Normandy). For all we know, the majority of us comes from 'invaders' as some point or the other.

As for accepting foreigners and mixing with them, we are probably the most tolerant nation in Europe, and I think only the US can match our mixture of population. We are a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society, and proud of it.

We call your mentality "Little England", when we see some of our compatriots devored by nostalgia, hate, intolerance and xenophobia as you seem to be.
Aryan

London, UK

#11 Dec 19, 2008
Jazz singer wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the article again! It specifically mentions name-change as a mean of harassing Russian ethnics in Estonia.
Read it again; this is what is said, and with examples for you to ponder.
Don't just accept it because it's your beloved Estonia doing it against Russians whom you seem to despise.
All your posts are bias and on the same tone!
Now, I do not want to speak about Stalin time; that was more than 50 years ago. The actors of that era are all but dead by now.
There is no need to be constantly looking in the past to justify the wrong deeds committed today.
We are supposed to have overcome the mistakes of the past and learnt from them: there is no reasons to repeat them to feel better and rejoyce in glee at their enactment now.
You are a tosser and an embarassment, go and smoke a spliff you do-gooder. People living outside their own countries deserve a good kicking, after all why does your own country not want you?
tarmo

Estonia

#12 Dec 19, 2008
Jazz singer wrote:
Estonia to launch nationalist campaign to humiliate Russian-speaking population
That is a lie.
Jazz singer wrote:
Source: Pravda.Ru
Estonia is launching a new campaign
That is true.
Jazz singer wrote:
... for the assimilation of the Russian-speaking population.
That is a lie.

PS. In estonian language, one is not assimilated, instead one has to assimilate itself. Language defines the way we think...

The impulse for this change in law came from non-estonians who wanted to have such a cause for their name-change - they want to assimilate themselves, there is no pushing from the state. Many estonians see such a desire as weird, since a simple name-change does not make one an estonian and there is hardly any discrimination based on name origins. And even if there were discrimination based on name origins, that discrimination would be mostly based on language skills or mentality anyway.
Jazz singer wrote:
Estonia’s Postimees newspaper wrote that a well-known footballer Konstantin Kolbasenko became Konstantin Nakhk in 2001.“I and my wife discussed the issue, and, since we live in Estonia , we decided that an Estonian surname would fit us better,” the footballer said. Kolbasenko simply took the last name of his Estonian wife.
Gosh! That is outrageous! That is unheard of! Not in EU!
Jazz singer wrote:
It is worthy of note that the current name-changing campaign is not the first one in Estonia. The country already held one during the 1930s, when the nation was living under the rule of dictator Konstantin Pyats.
Päts.
He was an authoritarian president, a pacifist in fact.
And his figure is hardly linked to the name-changing campaign anyway. What, with a forname of 'Konstantin'??? He should have changed his name to Tõnu!
Jazz singer wrote:
People would renounce their German and take Estonian names instead.
So?
Jazz singer wrote:
However, it did not stop many Estonians from becoming staunch allies of Nazi Germany several years later.
Huh?
Allies?
Who?

And look who's talking - the legal successors to the parties of the MRP Pact.
tarmo

Estonia

#13 Dec 19, 2008
Jazz singer wrote:
Latvia, Estonia’s neighboring state, began to deliberately distort Russian names and surnames soon after the nation declared independence.
That is just the result of different alphabets. It did not start in the 1990s, it has always existed - as long as different alphabets have been in use.
Jazz singer wrote:
They would add ‘–s’ flexions at the end of Russian names. For example, Vladimir Ivanov would be altered to Vladimirs Ivanovs to give the Latvian spirit to the purely Russian name.
Iva / Ivan cound be a finnic name, you know. Finnic names often end with -n. Estonian names often disregard the -n. There may be a grain of truth in it, since 'iva' in estonian language means 'a grain' ;-)

Adding a slavic ending -ov to a finnic name is called russification!
Jazz singer wrote:
Those having the sound ‘sh’ in their names would have it replaced with ‘s’– for example ‘Siskins’ instead of ‘Shishkin.’ The new name -‘Siskins’ would sound humiliating to its bearer, for the Russian word ‘siski’ translates as ‘boobs,’ whereas ‘shishka’ means a ‘pine cone.’
Nowadays, Estonian officials can change the Russian surname ‘Novikov’ to ‘Noovikoff’,‘Nikitin’ to ‘Niikitinn’,‘Kovalenko’ to ‘Kovaalenk’,‘Petrenko’ to ‘Petereenk’, etc.

You know, your Nakhk is actually Nahk, and your Pjats is actually Päts. So the distortion works both ways.

You should find out how a finnish name Väätäinen is spelled in Eurosport (Vaeaetaeinen).

[QUOTE who="Jazz singer"]
Needless to say that no one in the Estonian authorities will wonder whether any Estonian Russians ever wish to change their names like that.
Needless to say that Pravda is pulling that claim out of their asses.
Jazz singer wrote:
The name-changing campaign and Estonia’s tense relations with Russia aim to distract people’s attention from the severe consequences of the economic crisis.
Whatever you would like to believe. I don't really care.
Jazz singer wrote:
The country nears its economic collapse.
That is wishful thinking.
Our currency is 110% covered with foreign currency, using currency board. And Estonia still has close to 10% of GDP in reserves.
The collapse may eventually come, but at this point it is merely a wishful thinking.
Jazz singer wrote:
Many Estonian guest-workers have been fired from their jobs in Sweden and Finland, and many of them are expected to return to their motherland to exacerbate the social situation further on.
Define expected.
Is KGB/FSB already fueling such expectations?
Jazz singer wrote:
Vadim Trukhachev
Pravda.ru forum. The place where truth hurts
LOLL.
tarmo

Estonia

#14 Dec 19, 2008
Jazz singer wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the article again! It specifically mentions name-change as a mean of harassing Russian ethnics in Estonia.
They (Pravda) would say that, wouldn't they. So what else is news? Izvestija?
tarmo

Estonia

#15 Dec 19, 2008
Jazz singer wrote:
<quoted text>
But Estonia is an European country, belonging like my country to the EU and NATO. We are supposed to share the same principles, the same laws, follow the same rules and abide by the same charter, no?
Do you suggest that in UK a person cannot change its name?

That is a blatant discrimination!
In EU!

We are supposed to share the same principles, the same laws, follow the same rules and abide by the same charter, no?

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

#16 Dec 19, 2008
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you suggest that in UK a person cannot change its name?
That is a blatant discrimination!
In EU!
We are supposed to share the same principles, the same laws, follow the same rules and abide by the same charter, no?
So liberty and independence are nonexistent within the EU? Sounds rather like an empire.
...an evil empire.:)
Jazz singer

Gravesend, UK

#17 Dec 19, 2008
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you suggest that in UK a person cannot change its name?
That is a blatant discrimination!
In EU!
We are supposed to share the same principles, the same laws, follow the same rules and abide by the same charter, no?
Of course people can change their name in UK, but only if they wish to; nobody can force you to.

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

#18 Dec 19, 2008
Saturday, June 26, 1999 Published at 17:17 GMT 18:17 UK

World: Europe

Estonian Nazi commander reburied in Tallinn

The ashes of an Estonian officer who commanded a unit of the Nazi Waffen-SS in the Second World War have been reburied in a ceremony in the Estonian capital, Tallinn.

The officer, Alfons Rebane, served in the Estonian army until Soviet troops occupied the country in 1940.

He joined the German army when it entered Estonia the following year.

The Estonian prime minister, Mart Laar, described Rebane as one of Estonia's most prominent soldiers and said the country had a duty to rebury the ashes, which were brought from Germany.

But political parties representing the ethnic Russian community have said the reburial amounts to a support of fascism.

From the newsroom of the BBC World Service
Matti

Finland

#19 Dec 19, 2008
Jazz singer wrote:
<quoted text>
This is where you don't know the Brits.
We are very adaptable people, and don't succumb so easily to xenophobia.
Beside we are an optimistic nation and we see the good side of things and ignore the bad ones.
Anglo-Saxons, are by definition of Germanic origins, and they are the majority in the British Isles - Scotland, Wales and Ireland apart. So, we know all about foreign 'invasion' and 'occupation'.
We Brits don't speak Gaellic anymore, but English, derived from the languages of our invaders (Anglo-Saxons, Norse Vikings and French from Normandy). For all we know, the majority of us comes from 'invaders' as some point or the other.
As for accepting foreigners and mixing with them, we are probably the most tolerant nation in Europe, and I think only the US can match our mixture of population. We are a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society, and proud of it.
We call your mentality "Little England", when we see some of our compatriots devored by nostalgia, hate, intolerance and xenophobia as you seem to be.
I predicted just this answer from you.
I must say Britons don't know themself if they pretend to behave differently than Estonians after similar 50 years treatment by Germans.

What happened 1000 years ago goes in folklores, but what happened in your lifetime has real marks.

Your minorities are from your colonial time, and the minorotes have come to UK to seek asylum and not as arrogant ruling class like in Estonia. Britons have self also created their colonies and today they feel responce of their old "servants".

Had Britons experienced the same treatment than Estonians they would be really angry today. Britons are also very stubborn.

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

#20 Dec 19, 2008
News
Estonian Historian Sees Nazi hunter As Being Unfair to Entire Nation

(August 24, 2001)
Baltic News Service
August 22, 2001

Tallinn, 22 August: Historian Lauri Vahtre, a member of the Estonian parliament, said Nazi hunter Efraim Zuroff is unfair to Estonians and may provoke defiance instead of finding out the truth.

"If Zuroff's views are adequately mediated by the press, this can be regarded as instigation of interethnic hatred," Vahtre told BNS.

Vahtre added that Efraim Zuroff, director of the Isreali office of the Nazi-hunting Simon Wiesenthal Centre, is creating very bad publicity for the centre accusing the Estonian people of Nazi crimes.

"I am shocked; this in inappropriate. What right does he have to do this, adding with ebullient condescension that the present generation of Estonians is not guilty? My grandparents, just like myself, have never done any harm to Jews," Vahtre said.

Zuroff's historical statements stand out in their tendentiousness, Vahtre said. "In the conditions of Soviet power Jews themselves killed Jews," Vahtre said in comment on Zuroff's words that many Jews managed to leave the Baltic countries for the Soviet Union before the Nazis' arrival. At the same time, Vahtre said, it is a fact that some Jews thus saved themselves from death.

"But one has to admit that there was no persecution of Jews in Estonia during independence, scoundrels of Estonian stock got that opportunity under foreign rule," Vahtre, author of schoolbooks on Estonian history, said.

"This should provide sufficient truth that it is out of place to accuse the Estonian people and lead to the conclusion that Jews will be safe in Estonia as long as Estonia is independent."

The daily Eesti Paevaleht wrote that Zuroff accuses hundreds of Estonians of the murder of Jews during World War II.

Zuroff said that in 1998 an international commission headed by Estonian President Lennart Meri published a survey, quoting the figure of about 1,000-1,200 men in the Omakaitse World War II paramilitary organization, which was involved in murders. Besides, the survey mentions members of police units and the political police.

"Omakaitse had as its members civilians who had organized themselves.They mainly killed Communists, but also Jews in Estonia," Zuroff said. "Your people served in the political police, in police batallions and SS units."

"Jews from many countries were brought to the Baltic countries and were killed here. That is a fact. And that is your problem, not mine," Zuroff continued. "What happened here is very bad, but no one is accusing young Estonians for what their grandparents did. We only accuse those who are guilty and if they are alive they have to be brought to justice."

Copyright 2007 by UCSJ: Union of Councils for Jews in the Former Soviet Union.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 7
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Russia Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News The View that Putin's Advisor Has on Obama's Uk... (Nov '14) 5 hr Tm clm 5,990
News Ancient Spirituality and Commerce Clash in Mari El (Aug '10) 5 hr yav1112 13
News Serbia under pressure from Russia over its EU g... 12 hr Strahd 64
News 20,000 protest in Ukraine's capital (Jan '14) Fri George 11,257
News IAAF issues guidelines on Russian track athletes Thu PUTINs JUNKIES 1
News Russia's top 20 lies about Ukraine (Jun '14) Thu FILTHY RUSSIAN LIARS 4,480
News Moscow's Long Arm In Belgrade Thu Teddy 47
More from around the web