Are Russians white?

Are Russians white?

Created by Mer Vairenik on Jul 4, 2010

635 votes

Click on an option to vote

Yes

No

tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#299 Nov 6, 2012
Halonen is Conan OBrien wrote:
<quoted text>
So why does Sweden & Norway have more R1a haplogroup like Poland & less N haplogroup like the Baltic region & Finland?
Because southern Sweden had milder winters and earlier agriculture. It is mostly about the environment and the lifestyle, not about excessive migration.
Halonen is Conan OBrien wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a direct connection between Poland & Sweden by Cordedware culture.
No, it isn't.
It was largely likely similar to what happened on the eastern shore of the Baltic Sea - culture mediated by maritime mesolithic/neolithic hunter-gatherers.

The Swedish peculiarity is the mingling of mediterraneans with baltic (here baltic = Baltic Sea) hunter-gatherers into one agriculturalist group of people.
Halonen is Conan OBrien wrote:
<quoted text>
R1a haplogroup, Indo-European languages & Nordic phenotype went from Poland into Sweden in the Cordedware culture.
Do you suggest germanic languages from Poland to Sweden, sidestepping Denmark? I don't think so.
Halonen is Conan OBrien wrote:
<quoted text>
Sweden was a part of Kurgan culture.
Earliest Kurgan found in Poland 6,000 years ago with other of the earliest Kurgan's found in Ukraine & Russia 6,000 years ago.
A Kurgan is found in Sweden 4,000 years ago about the time of the arrival of the Nordic phenotype & Cordedware culture in Sweden.
The "arrival" of the nordic phenotype?
It was the agriculture that arrived, or more exactly, was taken over. Lifestyle morphs people.

PS. The nordic phenotype is mostly maritime, thus it has always been less agricultural (or rather, it has always been a more balanced diet).

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#300 Nov 9, 2012
I read and wonder. It is necessary to have Kakko ignorance that would ask such a question?
Moreover, Russian is the only "white" Rassi sadly you read this. And to put it more precisely the only habitat of Cro-Magnon man. Russian will not - will not be white.
Read at least on the official website of the U.S. geneticists R1a1. Their need to believe?

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#301 Nov 9, 2012
And by the way. About Mongol-Tatar invasion.
The fact that it simply invented, no one is arguing about. I myself archaeologist. Twenty years in the expeditions.
  The complete absence of cultural heritage Mongol State. He is not.

Since: Aug 12

Poughquag, NY

#303 Nov 9, 2012
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Do you suggest germanic languages from Poland to Sweden, sidestepping Denmark? I don't think so.
<quoted text>
When looking at this map it looks like Cordedware spread from Poland to North Germany up into Denmark & than Sweden. yup.

http://www.google.com/imgres...

This would explain why Sweden has more R1a haplogroup but less N haplogroup.

In fact it seems almost all N haplogroup in Sweden comes from the Saami & Finland in the far North of Finland.

While Southern Sweden has moderate levels of R1a haplogroup but very low levels of N haplogroup.

__

Of course the I1a haplogroup is the big question.

However since Norway particularly Central West Norway has the most R1a in Scandanavia.

It looks like R1a haplogroup probably largely arrived in Sweden before most I1a haplogroup did.

__

My guess would be that a Cheddar man type in Britain was the Sammi & was U5 haplogroup on the maternal side & I1a & N haplogroup.

That this Cheddar man type was the first people into Scandanvia having I1a haplogroupo, N haplogroup & maternal U5 haplogroup.

__

Then Proto Germanic R1a cordedware type from Poland moved into Scandanavia spreading the Nordic phenotype.

__

Then later a band of I1a haplogroup without mixing with N haplogroup or R1a haplogroup from in Southern France of the Combe Capelle type likely moved into Southern Scandanavia.

__

Yes while the 9,000 year olf Cheddar man was in England.

The 9,000 year Combe Capelle man was in Southern France.

see the strong contrast of features there & not unlike the strong contrast in features between the Saami of Northern Sweden vs Southern Sweden.

__

where are the r1b haplogroup type people?

further South than Combe Capelle in Spain or perhaps even North Africa as Mechta Afalou?

__

Mechta Afalou Cro Magnon from Morocco looks very similar to Britisah people today

Mechta Afalou of North Africa.

http://www.google.com/imgres...

John Lennon

http://www.google.com/imgres...

Howard Marks the British

http://www.google.com/imgres...
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#304 Nov 9, 2012
Halonen is Conan OBrien wrote:
<quoted text>
When looking at this map it looks like Cordedware spread from Poland to North Germany up into Denmark & than Sweden.
...
We are going in circles here.
I have to repeat again that the corded ware on the eastern shores of the Baltic Sea spread via maritime finnic tribes.

And thus it is likely that the western spread was similar to the eastern side, especially if one considers the Pitted Ware culture was mostly still based on local mesolithic maritime peoples (and the similarity of gotlanders and ölanders to oeselians and curonians).
Halonen is Conan OBrien wrote:
<quoted text>
This would explain why Sweden has more R1a haplogroup but less N haplogroup.
In fact it seems almost all N haplogroup in Sweden comes from the Saami & Finland in the far North of Finland.
I don't think so.
The frequency of N among gotlanders is only 2 times less than among oeselians. And N is not even a maritime haplogroup.
I would be very surprised if N to the south of Upland were of finnish or saami origin.
Halonen is Conan OBrien wrote:
<quoted text>
While Southern Sweden has moderate levels of R1a haplogroup but very low levels of N haplogroup.
Haplogroups do not give the whole picture.
N is frequent in cold continental areas.
Soth Sweden is anything but.
Halonen is Conan OBrien wrote:
<quoted text>
The 9,000 year Combe Capelle man was in Southern France.
see the strong contrast of features there & not unlike the strong contrast in features between the Saami of Northern Sweden vs Southern Sweden.
No need to grasp for far-fetched axplanations.

The strong contrast is easily explained with genetic drift in the north and with climate and lifestyle.

Swedes in general are not further away from finns than estonians and balts are from finns. And estonians and balts are closer to swedes than to finns. And swedes are closer to estonians and balts than to finns.
neutral observer

West Palm Beach, FL

#305 Nov 9, 2012
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
We are going in circles here.
Indeed. Your arguments have always been rather circular.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#306 Nov 9, 2012
Neither N nor R1a are maritime haplogroups.
The nordic phenotype, on the other hand, IS a maritime phenotype.
neutral observer

West Palm Beach, FL

#307 Nov 9, 2012
tarmo wrote:
Neither N nor R1a are maritime haplogroups.
The nordic phenotype, on the other hand, IS a maritime phenotype.
Is your point that Finno-Ugric peoples just wandered into Europe from off the Eurasian steppes and thus lack the maritime DNA?
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#308 Nov 9, 2012
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Is your point that Finno-Ugric peoples just wandered into Europe from off the Eurasian steppes and thus lack the maritime DNA?
Quite the opposite.
My point is that finno-ugric peoples around the Baltic Sea have always been here since the end of the last ice age, and thus they have the maritime DNA.

Since: Aug 12

Poughquag, NY

#309 Nov 29, 2012
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Swedes in general are not further away from finns than estonians and balts are from finns. And estonians and balts are closer to swedes than to finns. And swedes are closer to estonians and balts than to finns.
According to this genetic map Poland is the closest to Sweden besides Norway.

Lithuania is the closest to Finland & Finland is closest to Lithuania.

http://www.google.com/imgres...

__
_
_
_

BTW. I have heard some say before this is one of the most reliable genetic cluster maps for Europe.
river volga

Bromley, UK

#310 Nov 29, 2012
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Quite the opposite.
My point is that finno-ugric peoples around the Baltic Sea have always been here since the end of the last ice age, and thus they have the maritime DNA.
How do you explain the finno-ugric peoples living in Central Russia: the Udmurts?
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#311 Dec 1, 2012
river volga wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you explain the finno-ugric peoples living in Central Russia: the Udmurts?
What is there to explain?
Do you think that proto-europeans only lived in Udmurtia?
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#312 Dec 1, 2012
Halonen is Conan OBrien wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW. I have heard some say before this is one of the most reliable genetic cluster maps for Europe.
That depends on the definition of "one of the most reliable".
I don't think it gives the right picture. And how could it, with only 6-7 swedes, 5 norwegians and 8 lithuanians?

And there seem to be sampling issues and method issues.
tjm

Long Branch, NJ

#314 Jan 25, 2013
One of my closest friends is from russia. They are white. 90% of russias population is on the european side of russia and they originated in europe and they are a form of slavik, which is white.
I am of full Italian/sicilian ancestry, and so many people are constantly saying to me ''oh you have black in you''.
Seems anytime any white ethnicity is not british or german, NON whites always try to say they have some non white race in them, despite they hate whites.

Gee, i wonder why?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#319 Jan 26, 2013
Why don't you two little racist nazis stop going on about that racist crap,

people had enough of that obnoxious garbage from racist germany, in the middle of the last century.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#320 Jan 26, 2013
There was only one paleolithic east-european lowlands genetic cluster - it was uralic.

tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#323 Jan 26, 2013
The corded ware expansion to Estonia and to coastal Finland was mediated by maritibe finnic coastal tribes of curonians + oeselians + others. Prussia is not surrounded by the Curonian lagoon and by the Aestii (Eesti = Estonian) mare/lagoon by accident.

Rather little immigration from more southern areas outside of the Baltics and northern Belarus.

"..... I figure this Siberian DNA mixture is of the Finno-Ugric genetic cluster!"

No, it isn't.
Finno-ugric is not siberian. It is european, has always been. Finno-ugric is the european part of uralic.

And the siberian admixture is also not finno-ugric.
Basically, the siberian admixture is samoyedic, thus siberian uralic.

"That the Poland genetic cluster is Ancient Paloelithic Indo-European."

I doubt it, because in paleolithic, polish was finno-ugric. The Ukrainian refuge was finno-ugric.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#325 Jan 26, 2013
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
It is just simple genetics.
Probably far too much for you to grasp.
A lot of Eastern Europeans online are interested in genetics & anthropology.
A lot of Eastern europeans are racist.
Get used to it...
Obviously Russians aren't who you think they are in your Communist fairy tale..
.

Israel talks bollocks, it's racist crap that noone is interested in.

Now get lost jewboy.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#326 Jan 26, 2013
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know about that...
I mean Lithuanians have the most Conservative Indo-European languge... Also the most European genetics..
And yet the ancestors of lithuanians were baltic finns merely 6000 years ago. And the nucleus of "genetically the most ancient european" includes Lithuania, Latvia AND Estonia.
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
That they started in Paleolithic as Indo-Europeans with pure European genetics....
In your dreams.

Where do you think the Lithuanian placenames came from?
Lietuva/Leetuva
Niemen/Neemen/Nemunas
Kura Säär/Curonian Spit
Klaipeda/Kaloi+pääde
Apuole/Apu+ala
balt/valg-

There is a reason why Aestii denoted a larger coastal region in ancient times.
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
... Of course same seems true for Finland as well..... But.. the Higher rate of Siberian genetics in Finland than Lithuania seems supportive of a Indo-European Paleolithic genetic cluster vs a Finno-Ugric genetic cluster..
Lithuanians have more N1c than R1a.
And N1c does not equal paleolithic finno-ugric, it equals neolithic continental finno-ugric. Maritime finno-ugric was less affected by the continental N1c.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#328 Jan 27, 2013
Correction, lithuanians have a bit more R1a than N1c.
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
On the Maternal DNA.. Lithuanians lack U5 haplogroup associated with Finno-Ugrics.
They don't lack it, they just have it less.
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems as if Lithuanian Maternal DNA is related to Polish Maternal DNA rather than Finno Ugric DNA with less U5 haplogroup in the region ...
Er, no. ntDNA shows that lithuanians are close to both slavs and finno-ugric peoples.
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
My guess is Poland was Paleolithic Indo-European cluster...
Epipaleolithic was the last part of paleolithic, before the onset of holocene including mesolithic and neolithic.

Pre-swiderians and swiderians lived in epipaleolithic - they were not indo-european, they were european uralic ie. finno-ugric.

Poland could not possibly have been paleolithic indo-european. Not even mesolithic indo-european. The only viable option is neolithic or bronze age indo-european.
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
That Finland was the Paleolithic West Finno-Ugric cluster..
Finland has always been at the far northern rim of finnic peoples. The finnic population centroid moved to Finland somewhere around the Livonian War in the 16th century.
Before that Estonia was the center. And before that Livonia. And before that Lithuania. And before that Prussia.
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
... That Poland wss the most pure Aryan Indo-European genetic cluster before Neolithic farmers spread more Near Eastern DNA into Poland from the South escaping Lithuania due to more remote Northern region...
Dream on.
Should I start pointing you the toponyms in Polish territory with finno-ugric origin?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Russia Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News From wintry Lithuania, NATO sends Russia a sign... 32 min Stephany McDowell 1
News Russia warns Japan not to expect quick progress... 52 min Stephany McDowell 1
News Russia's top 20 lies about Ukraine (Jun '14) 1 hr PolakPotrafi 4,798
News Putin calls on European Jews to take refuge in ... (Jan '16) 1 hr PolakPotrafi 87
News Montenegro says it beat a coup plot - and that ... 2 hr Nenad Stevovic 21
News Finger pointed at Russians in alleged coup plot... 6 hr PolakPotrafi 52
News U.S. spy agencies fight Congress over plan for ... 7 hr Le Jimbo 5
More from around the web