Social democracy - VOICES / Puerto Rico Daily Sun - November 15, 2009

In REF: “P.R.: Capitalist paradise or Socialist hotbed?” by Robert Friedman, Daily Sun Washington Bureau. Nov. 9.

Just a quick comment. “The island [of Puerto Rico] … on the verge of turning into either a capitalist’s paradise or a worker’s revolutionary state … etc.”

It seems, in my opinion, that we in Puerto Rico are still struggling between the extremes of what may be considered the capitalist’s “fiasco” and the failed marxist-socialist analysis of things (both of which have, in many ways, and in the opinion of many, all the elements of a fundamentalist religion).

I think we need to seriously consider that what is known as “Social Democracy” is probably a better alternative than the extremes of capitalism and marxist-socialism. Two quick readings can be, “Understanding Social Democracy” by Sheri Berman, Associate Professor of Political Science at Barnard College-Columbia University, or “The Unlikely Marriage Between Ideological Democracy and Brutal Capitalism”, by Robert Wolff, a contemporary political philosopher.

Or if we want to stay local, we can always browse through the political and economic propositions of the Puerto Rican Independence Party, P.I.P, the only political party in Puerto Rico to support a social democratic vision.

I am by no means an expert, would have to do Harvard or Yale for that, but my citizen’s opinion is that for the little that I know about these things, social democrats and social democracy, seem to include within their political and economic propositions several very important elements of free, democratic and progressive societies: respect for human rights as they are understood in the contemporary world, civil freedoms in all respects, entrepreneurship and free enterprise with strong and precise measures of social justice and social empathy, and a strong social safety net that covers each and everyone of the problems that capitalism fails to address and that marxist-socialism fails to fix. Social democracy also seems to be a political-economic concept based on “pragmatism” rather than “belief” or “ideology”.

[Continued in Extended Entry section.]

[Upfront Yankee]

I agree 100% with this VOICES perspective in the Puerto Rico Daily Sun by Eric O. Johnson. It is concise and right to the correct conclusions without wasting words. I wish I could be as concise and to the point as Eric.

[TJM]

I can tell this idiot something,,,If you dont like capitalism,,,go to Venezuela then! There is an American Airlines flight that goes there!!! have fun,,say hello to Hugo for me!

[TJM]

Ohhhh forgot,,,,making a profit is evil,,,dont make a profit companies!!! is evil,,,because in the end,,,you will pay taxes for your profit, and give it to the PR govt to steal it!!! LOL

[Socialism]

Is the way to go man no matter what look what this system has done to the majority of the world. It has increased the poverty rate and we are in need of a real revolution!

[TJM]

Socialism wrote:

Is the way to go man no matter what look what this system has done to the majority of the world. It has increased the poverty rate and we are in need of a real revolution!

Great! I hope the companies of PR and USA dont make a profit, so they dont have to pay taxes, so the people wont get their foodstamps, or unemployment since more and more companies will have to layoff workers in order to stay in business and the govt wont have any tax revenue to keep themselves in business,,or I forgot, we will just continue to borrow more and more money from China,,,right now China is the largest country in dollar amount holding out debt. But you wouldnt get this information from UPfront yankee, no, he seems not to have enough knowledge in economic policy, let alone, political.,,,etc. etc. etc.

[Latuya]

Tyranny sounds so good when spoken with such eloquence.

[Justhefacts]

I personally See A problem with Puerto Rico really understanding how capitalism works to begin with.

I see a lot of "Lost in translation" in many areas

That lack of understanding has forever hurt the island.

I actually attribute a lot of that illiteracy or non High school grads. I met Engineers there and sat down with Professors from the University of Puerto Rico and wasn't impressed.

Not trying to Bash P.R. but certain things in a society needs to be in place for capitalism to flourish.

What I see in P.R. is a caste society

[TJM]

Justhefacts wrote:

I personally See A problem with Puerto Rico really understanding how capitalism works to begin with.
I see a lot of "Lost in translation" in many areas
That lack of understanding has forever hurt the island.
I actually attribute a lot of that illiteracy or non High school grads. I met Engineers there and sat down with Professors from the University of Puerto Rico and wasn't impressed.
Not trying to Bash P.R. but certain things in a society needs to be in place for capitalism to flourish.
What I see in P.R. is a caste society

Thank god another person with intelligence is here!

I was a pilot in PR, and most of the Puerto Rican pilots were terrible...didnt want to learn the right ways, arrogant, sloppy piloting skills, etc.

Also, in the financial sector, the ''rican'' brokers could never tell me why the stock market was going up(2003-2005). I knew why, since I have done alot of investing in my life, and read many books about business & this recession which will turn into a depression next year. but ask a P Rican in the financial sector, they know nada! No wonder the deficit of the island has equalled the GDP of the island. Puerto Ricans ran Puerto Rico into the ground.

[NOT REALLY]

TJM wrote:

<quoted text>
Great! I hope the companies of PR and USA dont make a profit, so they dont have to pay taxes, so the people wont get their foodstamps, or unemployment since more and more companies will have to layoff workers in order to stay in business and the govt wont have any tax revenue to keep themselves in business,,or I forgot, we will just continue to borrow more and more money from China,,,right now China is the largest country in dollar amount holding out debt. But you wouldnt get this information from UPfront yankee, no, he seems not to have enough knowledge in economic policy, let alone, political.,,,etc. etc. etc.

Ohhhh!!!! Waaaaahhhhhh!!!! Big crybaby.

[NOT REALLY]

Justhefacts wrote:

I personally See A problem with Puerto Rico really understanding how capitalism works to begin with.
I see a lot of "Lost in translation" in many areas
That lack of understanding has forever hurt the island.
I actually attribute a lot of that illiteracy or non High school grads. I met Engineers there and sat down with Professors from the University of Puerto Rico and wasn't impressed.
Not trying to Bash P.R. but certain things in a society needs to be in place for capitalism to flourish.
What I see in P.R. is a caste society

Sounds like they were just ignoring you and your attitude. I'd like to question those same engineers and professors about you.

[NOT REALLY]

TJM wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank god another person with intelligence is here!
I was a pilot in PR, and most of the Puerto Rican pilots were terrible...didnt want to learn the right ways, arrogant, sloppy piloting skills, etc.
Also, in the financial sector, the ''rican'' brokers could never tell me why the stock market was going up(2003-2005). I knew why, since I have done alot of investing in my life, and read many books about business & this recession which will turn into a depression next year. but ask a P Rican in the financial sector, they know nada! No wonder the deficit of the island has equalled the GDP of the island. Puerto Ricans ran Puerto Rico into the ground.

You are tiring (eyes roll). The national budget dificit in PR is about 3.5 billion dollars. The national debt is about 72 billion dollars. Get your facts straight. You do not know what you are talking about. You keep making yourself look like a dumbass.

[TJM]

NOT REALLY wrote:

<quoted text>
You are tiring (eyes roll). The national budget dificit in PR is about 3.5 billion dollars. The national debt is about 72 billion dollars. Get your facts straight. You do not know what you are talking about. You keep making yourself look like a dumbass.

you are the dumbass as you like to keep insulting others,,,typical ''boricua''!

I say the island debt is equalled to the GDP,,,the annual debt is 3.5 billion.

and to correct you, is not the ''national'' debt, Puerto Rico is not a nation, it is the ''islands'' debt. Puerto Rico is a territory of the U.S.

NOT A NATION!''dumbass''

[NOT REALLY]

You are truly incredulous. This is what YOU said:

"No wonder the deficit of the island has equalled (sic) the GDP of the island."

A deficit in this context is an excess of governmental expenditure over revenue in a fiscal year. The GDP of Puerto Rico is approximately 70 billion dollars per year according to the Central Intelligence Agency. The deficit of the island is not 70 billion dollars. The national debt is. The term "national debt" has nothing to do with the geography of the island. It is a financial term describing the state's debt. Puerto Rico's national debt is about 72 billion dollars.

Again, you are WRONG!!!

[Love cubans]

En Puerto Rico lo que tienen es que ponerse a trabajar, son muy vagos y les gusta vivir del gobierno. El pueblo perfecto para el Comunismo.

[NOT REALLY]

Love cubans wrote:

En Puerto Rico lo que tienen es que ponerse a trabajar, son muy vagos y les gusta vivir del gobierno. El pueblo perfecto para el Comunismo.

Just like in Cuba. There is no work.

[Love cubans]

NOT REALLY wrote:

<quoted text>
Just like in Cuba. There is no work.

Me da pena decirte que no es asi. Todo emigrante que llega a Puerto Rico. encuentra trabajo y llegan hasta tener su negocio propio en un 95%. Es solo por eso que se quedan en la isla. Los PRicans no lo hacen, ellos en una suma bien alta viven del gobierno de Estados Unidos, en casi un 55%. Desde que nacen en su mayoria ya saben que van a vivir de los taxes que pagan los que si trabajan. NO entieno esa actitud? Nunca he visitado ese pais, pero no me interesa. Para mi y para todos los espanoles Uds la pasan en la berracada, y son muy irresposables. Comiendo mierda han hundido su propia isla.

[NOT REALLY]

Love cubans wrote:

<quoted text>Me da pena decirte que no es asi. Todo emigrante que llega a Puerto Rico. encuentra trabajo y llegan hasta tener su negocio propio en un 95%. Es solo por eso que se quedan en la isla. Los PRicans no lo hacen, ellos en una suma bien alta viven del gobierno de Estados Unidos, en casi un 55%. Desde que nacen en su mayoria ya saben que van a vivir de los taxes que pagan los que si trabajan. NO entieno esa actitud? Nunca he visitado ese pais, pero no me interesa. Para mi y para todos los espanoles Uds la pasan en la berracada, y son muy irresposables. Comiendo mierda han hundido su propia isla.

Entonces no ha ido a la isla, asi que no sabe nada. Pero le encanta la isla de Cuba con toda su pobreza y problemas sociales multiples. Puesto que la antiqua Union Soviética salió de Cuba y no ha proporcionado más ayuda económica. Cuba no se ha inundado en el mar porque los Cubanos en los EEUU envian millones de dolares mensuales desde la Florida a sus familias en Cuba. Si no era por eso se moririan todos de hambre. Los Cubanos de Cuba se arriesgan sus vidas en el mar abierto para llegar a Puerto Rico. Cuba es un fracaso. Por anos el gobierno comunista ha solicitado ayuda financiera e economica de los EEUU.

[Love cubans]

NOT REALLY wrote:

<quoted text>
Entonces no ha ido a la isla, asi que no sabe nada. Pero le encanta la isla de Cuba con toda su pobreza y problemas sociales multiples. Puesto que la antiqua Union Soviética salió de Cuba y no ha proporcionado más ayuda económica. Cuba no se ha inundado en el mar porque los Cubanos en los EEUU envian millones de dolares mensuales desde la Florida a sus familias en Cuba. Si no era por eso se moririan todos de hambre. Los Cubanos de Cuba se arriesgan sus vidas en el mar abierto para llegar a Puerto Rico. Cuba es un fracaso. Por anos el gobierno comunista ha solicitado ayuda financiera e economica de los EEUU.

Tienes toda la razon. Los cubanos de Miami son los que mantienen a sus familiares en Cuba; pero Chaval, los cubanos ..(no Fidel) son gente muy trabajadora y siempre quieren adelantar. Yo quiero mucho a los cubanos, vivi alla y me eduque alla, apesar de ser espanol de nacimiento. amo a Cuba con los cubanos y sin Fidel. he decidido quedarme en USa y ayudar a mi madre alla en Cuba. Pero es cierto lo que digo los P.R. perdieron el deseo de echar para aadelante por ser un estado asociado. O son vagos de nacimiento, dime tu; porque la realidad is la realidad. No son mala gente pero no quieren trabajar.

[NOT REALLY]

Love cubans wrote:

<quoted text>Tienes toda la razon. Los cubanos de Miami son los que mantienen a sus familiares en Cuba; pero Chaval, los cubanos ..(no Fidel) son gente muy trabajadora y siempre quieren adelantar. Yo quiero mucho a los cubanos, vivi alla y me eduque alla, apesar de ser espanol de nacimiento. amo a Cuba con los cubanos y sin Fidel. he decidido quedarme en USa y ayudar a mi madre alla en Cuba. Pero es cierto lo que digo los P.R. perdieron el deseo de echar para aadelante por ser un estado asociado. O son vagos de nacimiento, dime tu; porque la realidad is la realidad. No son mala gente pero no quieren trabajar.

Todos los Puertorriquenos que yo conozco trabajan incluyendo a mi familia. No conozco ningunos vagos. Usted está utilizando un estereotipo. Quizas puedo empezar a darle estereotips de los Espanoles y Cubanos.

[Love cubans]

NOT REALLY wrote:

<quoted text>
Todos los Puertorriquenos que yo conozco trabajan incluyendo a mi familia. No conozco ningunos vagos. Usted está utilizando un estereotipo. Quizas puedo empezar a darle estereotips de los Espanoles y Cubanos.

Estereotipos?? En P.R. el 56 % de la poblacion vive de Welfare y bonos de alimento. No crees eso es suficiente para llamar a la isla igual a un 1'500,000 de habitantes. Lee de tu pais y sabras