Philippines to question priest over ivory trade

Sep 26, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Tri-cityherald.com

Monsignor Cristobal Garcia, who rose to prominence in a Philippine archdiocese despite a U.S. sex abuse case in the 1980s for which he was suspended by the Vatican just this year, is quoted in the October issue of the magazine as describing how to bring ivory figurines into the United States.

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ELIAS IBARRA

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#104
Mar 5, 2013
 
Ozzy wrote:
Big deal..one person says they understand it..but actually, you take it out of context.
If you want to know if Jesus is God, read Hebrews Chapter 1. It destroys the doctrine of INC, JW, and Mormons.
Ozzy,

Stop lying!!! From the first verse of Genesis to the last verse of Revelation, no Christ is ever mentioned as God or deity!!! If there is even one verse in the Bible stating the said concept, then, why did the Roman Catholic Church still had to convene the Council of Nicaea in year 325 instead of just reading the verse indicating the deity of Christ???

Improve your low I.Q.!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
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ELIAS IBARRA

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#105
Mar 5, 2013
 
dsb wrote:
<quoted text>
"True follower" of your hallucinations,
Now, after you repeated the same phrase for maybe the thousandth time, look for somebody who will pat you on the back, since you must have swallowed a broken record.
When arguments become rare, one has to cling to the worn.
Dog Behavior,

Teachers when teaching have to repeat lessons over and over again just for the sake of low I.Q.s!!! The product of low I.Q.s are low I.Q.s themselves!!! They preached fabrications without any understanding of the lesson about the Holy Trinity:

"The Trinity is a wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are mystified by it as a child of seven."

Reference:[Martin J. Scott, S.J., God and Myself, Nhil Obstat: Arthurus J. Scanlan, S.T.D., Imprimatur: Joannes Cardinalis Farley (P.J. Kenedy and Sons, 1917), pp. 118-119.]

A low I.Q., such as you, would normally be in comapanion with another low I.Q.!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
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dsb

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#107
Mar 5, 2013
 
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Dog Behavior,
Teachers when teaching have to repeat lessons over and over again just for the sake of low I.Q.s!!!
Real Elias Ibarra
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"True follower" of your hallucinations,

absolutely right: In "Mizrach" techers have to repeat over and over again - thatīs why "Mizrach" has produced countless intelligent people as doctors who mostly will be regardede as nurses somewhere else in the world. Another proof of your statement art the countless inventions which have been made by those people who experienced repeated and repeated lessons!
Hail "Mizrach" - without you the world would lack toilet cleaners!
And you are right: toilet cleaners mostly produce toilet cleaners!

Dance for us, you involuntary jerk, dance for us and sing the song of your heroic sex maniac messenger of your god from the art supply shop.
ELIAS IBARRA

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#108
Mar 5, 2013
 
Ozzy wrote:
Here you go, Elias the dumbass...
Hebrews 1:8 (KJV)
8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Here, God the Father, proclaims His son "O God" and to Jesus "thy kingdom".
Now why would God say that to Jesus if Jesus was only a man? It is because Jesus is not only man but spirit and He is also the spirit of God who was made flesh.
Ozzy,

Various Bible versions differ in their renditions of Hebrews 1:8. For our readers to notice the difference, let us quote the verse from two different versions of the Bible:

"But of the Son He says,'THY THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER',..." (New Americian Standard Bible)

"But of the Son he says,'God is your throne forever and ever'..." (Godspeed Translation)

The New American Bible's rendition exemplifies those translations of Hebrews 1:8 in which it appears as though the Son were addressed "O GOD" by the Father, whereas that of Godspeed Translation typifies those Bible versions where it has no indication that the Father called the Son as God, but states instead that the throne of the Son is God.

So how, then, are we to know which particular translation of the Bible to use, for example, in a particular verse? Apostle Paul states the guiding priciple we should employ, thus:

"These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comapring spiritual things with spiritual." (I Cor. 2:13, New King Jmaes Version)

Because spiritual things should be compared with spiritual truths, there must be no contradiction among verses of the Bible. As a rule therefore in determining which rendition of a particular verse expresses the truth, a verse should not be in opposition to any other verse of the Bible because God, in whose will and guidance the Bible was written, is not the author of confusion (I Cor. 14:33).

The King James and the New American Standard Bible renditions are not correct translations be cause these conflicts with other verses of the Bible!!!

It is for this reason that the Church of Christ (Iglesia ni Cristo) believes that any translation of Hebrews 1:8 that puts it in such a way that Christ is being acknowledged as God by the Father is unquestionably erroneous because such rendition categorically contradicts the following statements of the Father Himself:

"Acknowledge that I alone am God and that there is no one else like me." (Isaiah 46:9, Today's English Version)

" ... And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any." (Isaiah 44:8, Revised Standard Version)

" ... I am the only God. Besides me there is no other god; there never was and never will be." (Isaiah 43:10, Today's English Version)

Lest people suppose that there is one God in heaven but there is another on earth, the Bible further adds:

"Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that the LORD Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other." (Deut. 4:39, NKJV)

But what does it mean that "God is [the Son's throne]"? The answer is found in Psalms 45:6, the very verse in the Old Testament that is quoted in Hebrews 1:8:

"Your throne is from God, forever and ever, the sceptre of your kingship a sceptre of justice." (New Jerusalem Bible)

Clearly then, that God is the throne of the Son denotes that the Son's throne is from God. It is also taught in the New Testament that the throne or authority that the Son holds come from no other than the Almighty God who is the Father! Yes, it is. In fact, Christ Himself taught this when He declared:

" ...'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth'." (Matthew 28:18, NKJV)

Improve your low I.Q.!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
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ELIAS IBARRA

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#109
Mar 5, 2013
 
Ozzy wrote:
Here you go, Elias the dumbass...
Now why would God say that to Jesus if Jesus was only a man? It is because Jesus is not only man but spirit and He is also the spirit of God who was made flesh.
Ozzy,

This is what Jesus Christ said to the disciples when they mistook Him as Spirit:

" ... A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." (Luke 24:39, NKJV)

"But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God...." (Jn. 8:40)

According to Christ, He has flesh and bones while a spirit does have those!!! According to Him also that He is a man who is telling the truth!!!

Who were not and are not telling the truth??? The Roman Catholic Council of Nicaea:

"Thus, for example, it was not until 325 A.D., at the Council of Nicea, that the Church defined for us that is was an article of faith that Jesus is truly God. In 381, at the Council of Constantinople, it was defined for us that it was an article of faith that the Holy Ghost is God."

Reference:(Discourses on the Apostles' Creed, p. 206)

All Roman Catholics, Atheists, Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Bereans, Baptists, Seventh-day Adventists, Evangelicals, Charismatics, members of the American cults, Born-Again, Pagans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopalians, skeptics, and agnostics must improve their low I.Q.s!!!



Real Elias Ibarra
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#110
Mar 5, 2013
 
Ozzy wrote:
Just refer back to John 1:14
"14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." KJV
INC has a poor explanation of John 1:1 and John 1:14 puts them to shame because how can a Word (capilalized) become flesh? John 1:1 was absolutely referring to Jesus and there is no guessing game about that but INC wants to tell you that is another mistake in the bible? bwahahaha
Ozzy,

Here's John 1:1 quoted and the explanation:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1, New King James)

It must be noted that nowhere in the mentioned verse is it asserted that Christ already pre-existed in the beginning nor is He pointed out to be the true God who became man. The term Word should not be construed as Christ Himself, who pre-existed or has been existing since the beginning as God. The biblical fact, as stated by Apostle Peter, is that Christ was "foreknown , indeed, before the foundation of the world, but manifested in the last times for you" (I Pet. 1:20, Douay Version).

Hence, there was no Christ yet existing in the beginning but only a "predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God" (Acts 2:23, New American Standard Bible) concerning the creation of Christ. God had Christ already in His mind as a plan even before Christ came to exist corporeally. That is why the verse says that the "word was with God." What was with God in the beginning was not Christ Himself but God's Word--His knowledge or plan to create Christ.

The Word or Logos

The term Word in John 1:1 and 14 was translated from the Greek term Logos. That the Logos or Word, as can be understood from the pronouncement of the Apostle Peter, was not Christ Himself pre-existing as God, but a plan or thought coming from God, is also concurred in by Bible scholars. One Bible Encyclopedia gives this explanation:

"Logos signifies in classical Gr[eek] both 'reason' and 'word'... The [term]'thought' is probably the best equivalent for the Gr[eek] term, since it denotes, on the one hand, the faculty of reason, or the thought inwardly conceived in the mind; and, on the other hand, the thought outwardly expressed through the vehicle of language."

Reference:(The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, vol. 3, p. 191)

The term Word in John 1:1 obviously does not signify a pre-existent Christ. The Greek term Logos from which it was translated signifies 'reason' and 'word' itself, and can best be equated with the term 'thought'. As to the meaning of this term as used in the verse, Catholic authorities, who are undoubtedly believers in Christ-is-God doctrine, have this to say:

"St. John employs the term Word. It is so used only by St. John ... and designates the Son as a kind of intellectual emanation from the Father ..." (John 1:1, Douay Version, footnote)

Based on the explanation of both the aforecited Protestant and Catholic authorities, the term Word in John 1:1 does not signify a Christ who has been existing eternally as God. The term simply means 'reason' or 'thought' emanating or coming from God, and we can only agree to this because this is what the BIble teaches.

All Roman Catholics, Atheists, Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Methodists, Spurious Born-again, Bereans, Baptists, Seventh-day Adventists, Evangelicals, Charismatics, members of the American cults, skeptics, agnostics and all outside of the IGlesia ni Cristo must improve their low I.Q.s!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
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ELIAS IBARRA

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#111
Mar 5, 2013
 
Ozzy wrote:
Here you go, Elias the dumbass...
INC has a poor explanation of John 1:1 and John 1:14 puts them to shame because how can a Word (capilalized) become flesh? John 1:1 was absolutely referring to Jesus and there is no guessing game about that but INC wants to tell you that is another mistake in the bible? bwahahaha
Ozzy, Here's the quote for John 1:14 and the explanation:

" ...'and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us'." (NKJV)

'The Word became flesh'

It is clear from the clause, "the Word became flesh," that neither the true God, who owns the Word, nor our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the fulfillment of the Word, became flesh but the Word itself. This simply means that what was planned and promised by God in the beginning came to be fulfilled at the time appointed by Him. The Apostle Paul states:

"But when the fulness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." (Gal. 4:4-5, NKJV)

When God sent forth His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at the appointed time, His plan of giving or sending a Savior to redeem man from the curse of the law was fulfilled. This had found fulfillment in a human being born of a woman named Mary (Matt. 1:18, 20), that is why the Apostle John said that "the Word became flesh." But before Christ was conceived in Mary's womb, he did not yet exist. What existed was God's Word--His plan, which he had spoken and disclosed by promising it to His servants. By analogy, this is like someone who planned and said that he would build a house. There was not a house yet in existence for it was just a plan in his mind, which he then spoke and disclosed. When did the house came to being? After it was built. But prior to its being built, what existed was only a plan in the person's mind. And when the house was built, it was not the person who planned to build it who turned into a house but his plan. Likewise, it was not God who planned or spoke the Word that "became flesh" but His Word. And when God's Word or plan was fulfilled, Christ, who was the fulfillment, testified to His being "a man telling the truth," which He "heard from God" (John 8:40). Hence, Christ is not God but, rather, He is different from Him. It is therefore a grave error to believe and conclude from what the Apostle John wrote in his Gospel that Christ is God who became man.

All Roman Catholics, Atheists, Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Bereans, Methodist, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, spurious Born-again, 700 Club, Lutherans, Baptists, Seventh-day Adventists, Evangelicals, Charismatics, members of the American cults, skeptics, agnostics and anyone outside of the Iglesia ni Cristo must improve their low I.Q.s!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
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Ozzy

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#112
Mar 5, 2013
 
Everything you have sited are twists of the Iglesia ni Cristo for if they do not twist the meanings and choose what bible version they take it from, they lose their credibility. This is creation of lies and deceit by Felix Manalo and all of INC administration. It is handed down to their blind and brainwashed followers as the truth while, it is very evident, it is not.

Go ahead and continue to blind yourself by pick and choosing the verses that suit the needs while the credible churches use the bible that is best translated by the best college of theologian interpreters.

Now, for sake of your argument, you need to continue with Hebrews Chapter 1 in the Goodspeed version (not Godspeed as you said)
Heb 1:10 (taken from the Goodspeed version)
"And "You, Lord, in the beginning founded the earth, And the sky is the work of your hands!"

Here God proclaims that Jesus founded the earth and the sky with His hands. Hmmm curious dont you think that God would proclaim such a thing to Jesus?

So once again, God makes Jesus his equal. But not just His equal but God Himself.

Now, your reasoning of John 1:1 has been a downfall for INC since they have made that silly argument. It's so clearly twisted by INC. And you said it yourself with your quote that God sent His Son. Who was sent? The Word was sent and He became Flesh.

Your trickery with phrases, words, and unrelated pieces of scripture is only fooling you and the other weak minded of INC. Manalo has lied to you. Your administration continues to defend what is indefensible. But because they say its the truth, you brainless sheep must follow it.

That is why you are known as a CULT. Because it fits. Only less than 10 million in the world are falling for it and 99%+ of those are filipinos. It absolutely is a FILIPINO CULT.
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#113
Mar 5, 2013
 
"Stop lying!!! From the first verse of Genesis to the last verse of Revelation, no Christ is ever mentioned as God or deity!!! If there is even one verse in the Bible stating the said concept, then, why did the Roman Catholic Church still had to convene the Council of Nicaea in year 325 instead of just reading the verse indicating the deity of Christ???"

Absolutely untrue what you say. St Thomas proclaims Jesus as his Lord and his God.

You say that St Thomas was mistaken. You say that the bible is mistaken. Then when you talk out of the other side of your mouth, you will say that INC follows the bible. There was no mistaken. And the reason Jesus said to St Thomas,.. A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have....Jesus was proving His divinity that He was flesh and bones so His resurrection was not a dream, hallucination, or vision to St Thomas. And if you know your bible so well, you know that Jesus ascends into Heaven in front of all the diciples(except Judas, of course) as spirit.

Here Jesus PROVES He was both man and spirit. That is why it is written that St Thomas was NOT wrong. That is why Jesus did NOT correct him. And if "My Lord and my God" was an expression of shock, then that means you must believe that St Thomas took the Lord's name in vain...or that he committed blasphemy. St. Thomas did neither.

It must be difficult fighting to defend the lies of INC bwahahaha
ELIAS IBARRA

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#117
Mar 8, 2013
 
The Roman Catholic Church has failed to make an update ragarding their inventory of graven images made from endangered animals!!! The Roman Catholic Church in the Philippines had promised a full inventory of ivory-graven images to satisfy the investigation conducted by National Geographic regarding the church's participation in the smuggling of endangered animal tusks but until now there is no update given!!!

Meanwhile, while the Catholic Church is doing her alleged inventory, the true Church of Christ (Iglesia ni Cristo) for year 2012 had finished dedicating to the Almighty God in the Philippines alone 107 grandiose and beautiful chapels (66 in Luzon, 18 in the Visayas, and 23 in Mindanao)!!!

In addtion to these, and in the same year, outside the Philippines, 12 new houses of worship and purchased and renovated buildings for worship services were dedicated to the Almighty God (5 in Europe, 5 in the United States and Canada, and two in Japan).
Real Elias Ibarra

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ELIAS IBARRA

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#118
Mar 10, 2013
 
Ozzy wrote:
"Stop lying!!! From the first verse of Genesis to the last verse of Revelation, no Christ is ever mentioned as God or deity!!! If there is even one verse in the Bible stating the said concept, then, why did the Roman Catholic Church still had to convene the Council of Nicaea in year 325 instead of just reading the verse indicating the deity of Christ???"
Absolutely untrue what you say. St Thomas proclaims Jesus as his Lord and his God.
You say that St Thomas was mistaken. You say that the bible is mistaken. Then when you talk out of the other side of your mouth, you will say that INC follows the bible. There was no mistaken. And the reason Jesus said to St Thomas,.. A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have....Jesus was proving His divinity that He was flesh and bones so His resurrection was not a dream, hallucination, or vision to St Thomas. And if you know your bible so well, you know that Jesus ascends into Heaven in front of all the diciples(except Judas, of course) as spirit.
Here Jesus PROVES He was both man and spirit. That is why it is written that St Thomas was NOT wrong. That is why Jesus did NOT correct him. And if "My Lord and my God" was an expression of shock, then that means you must believe that St Thomas took the Lord's name in vain...or that he committed blasphemy. St. Thomas did neither.
It must be difficult fighting to defend the lies of INC bwahahaha
Ozzy,

The Apostles were already corrected by Christ when they mistook Him as spirit:

" ... A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." (Luke 24:39, NKJV)

Christ is not a spirit for according to Him he has flesh and bones!!! And He said too that a spirit does not have flesh and bones!!! Thomas, therefore, was mistaken and just like the rest of the Apostles upon sight of Christ when brought back to life!!!

Improve yoir low I.Q.!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
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ELIAS IBARRA

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#119
Mar 10, 2013
 
[QUOTE who="OzzyHere Jesus PROVES He was both man and spirit. That is why it is written that St Thomas was NOT wrong. That is why Jesus did NOT correct him. And if "My Lord and my God" was an expression of shock, then that means you must believe that St Thomas took the Lord's name in vain...or that he committed blasphemy. St. Thomas did neither.
It must be difficult fighting to defend the lies of INC bwahahaha[/QUOTE]

Ozzy,

You cannot make water having two states at the same time: liquid and ice!!! Christ cannot be man and God at the same time!!!

The truth that Christ will be subject to the Father is another proof that He is not God:

"For he 'has put everything under his feet'. Now when it says that 'everything' has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." (l Cor. 15:27-28, NIV)

All shall be subject to Christ, except God who put everything under Christ. And when this is accomplished, Christ Himself will be made subject to God so that God may be all in all. How then could Christ be God when He will be made subject to God?

Why must Christ subject Himself to the Father? Precisely because He admits , "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28, NKJV). He also said:

" ... Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; ... I can of Myself do nothing." (John 5:19, 30, Ibid.)

Christ stated that He could not do anything by Himself. He did not introduce Himself as God, neither as "God the Son" but as being sent by God.

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Ozzy

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#120
Mar 10, 2013
 
Go to the Anarctic and you will see two states of water...liquid and ice. Heck, look at my glass of water with my ice cubes. Damn, that was too easy. LOL
ELIAS IBARRA

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#121
Mar 11, 2013
 
Ozzy wrote:
Go to the Anarctic and you will see two states of water...liquid and ice. Heck, look at my glass of water with my ice cubes. Damn, that was too easy. LOL
Ozzy,

Take a good look!!! Water is the liquid state while ice is the solid state!!! The water in liquid state is not the ice in solid state!!! Improve your low I.Q.!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
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ELIAS IBARRA

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#122
Mar 11, 2013
 
Priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church actually claim equality with Christ as proven by these references:

"The official title of the pope is:'His Holiness the Pope, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ on Earth...'"

Reference:[K.E. Skydsgaard,et al.The Church As The Body of Christ, vol. 1, p.7]

"Vicar of Christ: the Pope as visible head of the Church,acting in place of Christ..."

Reference:[Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines. Catechism for Filipino Catholics, p.676]

"The priest is another Christ."

Reference:[Richard P. Hire,Our Christian Faith,p.154]

Roman Catholic priests and popes claim equality with Christ when they claim and arrogate unto themselves the following titles:

1. "Vicarius Christi" or Vicar of Christ.
2. "VICARIVS FILII DEI" or Vicar of the Son of God.
3. As another Christ.
Why is it wrong for Catholic priests and popes to claim equality with our Lord Jesus Christ??? It is because the Bible declares that nobody can ever take the place of Christ:

"But He holds His priesthood unchangeably, because He lives on forever.Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost ...those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them."[Heb.7:24-25,Amplif ied Bible]

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." [Heb.13:8, NIV]

The Catholic Church teaches that, as Vicars of Christ, the Popes and the priests act in place of Jesus Christ!!! But the Bible declares that Christ "holds His priesthood unchangeably." He is the same yesterday, today, and forever!!! Therefore no one can ever act in His place or be another Christ!!!

All Roman Catholics, Atheists, Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Bereans, "Ang Dating Tumbong Doon" K.Y.J. Eli Fernando Soriano, Baptists, Seventh-day Adventists, Evangelicals, Charismatics, Spurious Born-again, Presbyterians, Othodox, 700 Bar Club members, Episcopalians, Methodists, Branch Davidians, members of the American cults, skeptics, agnostics, and those outside of the true Church of Christ (Iglesia ni Cristo) must improve their low I.Q.s!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
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lol

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#123
Mar 11, 2013
 
Elias is so intimidated with the IQ of other religions that he is so mixed up. Lord forgive him as he does not know what he is talking about.
ELIAS IBARRA

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#124
Mar 15, 2013
 
lol wrote:
Elias is so intimidated with the IQ of other religions that he is so mixed up. Lord forgive him as he does not know what he is talking about.
Lol,

The low I.Q. of the Trinitarian religions can easily be discerned from the statement of a discerning individual!!! According to Arius:

"... if God the Father and the Son were both divine, then there were two gods, which meant that Christianity was not a monotheistic religion".
Ang sabi ni Ario:

"... kung ang Diyos Ama at ang Anak ay parehong Diyos, kung gayon ay may dalawang Diyos, na nangangahulugang ang Cristianismo ay hindi monoteistikong relihiyon.

Reference: Magoffin. Ralph V.D and Frederick Duncalf. Ancient and Medieval History: The rise of classical culture and the development of medieval civilization, p. 394. Silver Burdett Company, 1939.

More proofs about the low I.Q.s of Trinitarians can be discerned when they are preaching and believing without understanding:

"The Trinity is a wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are mystified by it as a child of seven."

Reference:[Martin J. Scott, S.J., God and Myself, Nhil Obstat: Arthurus J. Scanlan, S.T.D., Imprimatur: Joannes Cardinalis Farley (P.J. Kenedy and Sons, 1917), pp. 118-119.]

All Roman Catholics, Atheists, Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Bereans, "Ang Dating Tumbong Doon" K.Y.J. Eli Fernando Soriano, Baptists, Seventh-day Adventists, Evangelicals, Charismatics, Spurious Born-again, Presbyterians, Othodox, 700 Bar Club members, Episcopalians, Methodists, Branch Davidians, members of the American cults, skeptics, agnostics, and those outside of the true Church of Christ (Iglesia ni Cristo) must improve their low I.Q.s!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
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Ozzy

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#125
Mar 15, 2013
 
Arius was a blasphemer and exiled. He had an agenda. Men much more intelligent debated and agreed what the apostles and Jesus were saying. Do you think what was said in the bible was taken lightly? Many men of superb intelligence over 3 or 4 (Arius had 2 or 3 that followed him, I dont remember at this time). I think I will take the minds of many over the minds of the few.

Yes, Iglesia ni Cristo will go against the grain as they do with the liberties they take on most scripture.

A good example is the one you love to quote by Lamsa in Acts 20:28 where you want to claim the name Church of Christ.

Which brings an interesting question...if INC wants to quote Lamsa that being the reason for the name of their church, how did Felix Manalo explain it before the Lamsa bible was published in 1933?

This alone proves that INC is nothing but a fraudulent church. INC will use anything they can and when the Lamsa bible was published, INC was jumping up and down for joy to claim their name was in the bible. But still, let's keep the correct description...it is "church of Christ" and not "Church of Christ" which you look doubly foolish for.
ELIAS IBARRA

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#126
Mar 18, 2013
 
Ozzy wrote:
Arius was a blasphemer and exiled. He had an agenda. Men much more intelligent debated and agreed what the apostles and Jesus were saying. Do you think what was said in the bible was taken lightly? Many men of superb intelligence over 3 or 4 (Arius had 2 or 3 that followed him, I dont remember at this time). I think I will take the minds of many over the minds of the few.
Ozzy,

These were what happened in the Council of Nicaea:

"Constantine then called a council of the bishops of the Church to work out solution to the dispute. This council met at Nicaea in the early summer of 325. Three hundred bishops of the church were present, but less than ten were from the Western section of the Empire. The Emperor presided over the council and paid its expenses. For the first time that the Church found itself dominated by the political leadership of the head of the state."

Reference: Christianity Through The Centuries: A History of the Christian Church, p. 143

"The Council was called by Emperor Constantine by means of letters with accompanying gifts, but these letters also contain threats."

Reference: Sevilla, Pedro C. Ang KABANALBANALANG ISANG TATLO: Ang Diyos ng mga Kristiyano, p. 107. Loyola School of Theology: Ateneo de Manila University Q.C., 1988.

"For the first time in its history Christianity in the Roman Empire was no longer the persecuted religion ... From a purely external point of view the change in the situation was evident to the bishops in the fact that they no longer needed to move about secretly nor did they have to use the normal means of travel to visit one another. They now have the privilege of coming to the council by means of transportation provided by the state, i.e., means which were intended for use by ranking state officials. At Nicaea the emperor provided lodging for the bishops in his palace. It was there, too, that the discussions took place, and in the presence of the emperor at that....It is understandable if the bishops showed their gratitude by generous efforts to oblige the emperor.

"In the course of the long discussions which now took place at Nicaea the emperor intervened personally several times."

Reference: A Short History of Christian Doctrine, pp. 51 -52

"This is what happened at Nicaea. Some six weeks after the council opened, on June 19, 325, Emperor Constantine insisted that all bishops who had been present should endorse a new creed that confirmed Christ as God and condemned Arius. Anyone who did not sign this document was to be excommunicated and exiled."

Reference: Lehmann, Johannes. The Jesus Establishment, p. 173. Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Company Inc., 1974.

"The Council could not agree and after two years, impatient at the delay, the Emperor Constantine appeared and addressed the assembly, ordering then to agree on the divinity of Christ (how could the emperor claim divinity if the Savior's was denied?)."

Reference: Marshall, George N. Challenge of a Liberal Faith, p. 60. New Canaan, Connecticut: Keats Publishing, INc., 1970.

"Thus, for example, it was not until 325 A.D., at the Council of Nicaea, that the [Catholic} Church defined for us that it was an article of faith that Jesus is truly God."

Reference:(Crock, Clement H. Discourses on the Apostles' Creed, p. 206. New York: Joseph F. Wagner, 1938.)

The Great Conrovery became the Great Conspiracy!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
ELIAS IBARRA

Barrigada, Guam

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#127
Mar 20, 2013
 
How did Arius describe those who belong to the false religions??? They consider God and Christ as both Gods!!! He said:

"... if God the Father and the Son were both divine, then there were two gods, which meant that Christianity was not a monotheistic religion".

Reference: Magoffin. Ralph V.D and Frederick Duncalf. Ancient and Medieval History: The rise of classical culture and the development of medieval civilization, p. 394. Silver Burdett Company, 1939.

Those who believe that both God and Christ are Gods do not uphold the monotheistic belief of Christianity!!! What is the belief of those who oppose monotheistic Christianity???

" ... maintaining strongly that Jesus Christ was Eternal God in the form of a man and that beliefs to the contrary were heretical."

Reference: Rubenstein, Richard E. When Jesus Became God: The Epic Fight Over Christ's Divinity in the Last days of Rome, p. 56. New York: Harcourt Brace & Company, 1999.

According to those who oppose monotheistic Christianity, our Lord Jesus Christ is Eternal God!!! But what is the true belief of monotheistic Christianity in the first century???

"The New Testament says that Jesus was the Word of God, it says that God was in Christ, it says that Jesus is the Son of God; but it does not say that Jesus was God ..."

Reference:(Robinson, John A.T. Honest To God, p. 70. London: SCM Press Ltd., 1963.)

The first-century Chrsitians never had the belief that Christ was God!!! Which religion fabricated the false doctine??? The Roman Catholic Church:

"Thus, for example, it was not until 325 A.D., at the Council of Nicaea, that the [Catholic} Church defined for us that it was an article of faith that Jesus is truly God."

Reference:(Discourses on the Apostles' Creed, p. 206)

All those outside of the Iglesia ni Cristo, Baptists, "And Dating Doon Tumbong K.Y.J.Eli Fernando Soriano", Jehovah's Witnesses, Bereans, Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, Prebyterians, Episcopalians, Chraismatics, Evangelicals, Branch Davidian, American and European cults, Atheists, Protestants, Roman Catholics, Spurious Born-again, Seventh-day Adventists, Methodists, Agnostics, Skeptics, and Aglipayans must improve their low I.Q.s!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam

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