Israeli troops begin Gaza pullout as Hamas declares cease-fire

[Pumbaa]

Eran Levi - Israel wrote:

No happy birthday from anyone?

Happy Birthday kid- So you only have 18 years of IDF reserve duty to go?

My birthday wish for you- May you never need to be called up.

[Pumbaa]

Rovian wrote:

<quoted text>
Saddam was a good guy?
I'll bet you think Hitler was a good guy too, after all he also was able to keep control.
That is just sick!

Saddam (A Regan admin ally) takes land by force we go to war.

Israel takes land by force- we send them more tanks, bombs, planes and money.

See the problem?

[Pumbaa]

TRD wrote:

<quoted text>Do the math Pumbaa. If her child were born today it wouldn't be viable. Let's hope instead for a good sonogram and a clean bill of health for mother and child.

D'oh! my bad.

[Ijanderson977]

Uzi wrote:

<quoted text>
Full of english crap. Israel is a democracy and of course left wing idiots just cant handle that. Saalam to you too. Get your camels ready.

Iran and North Korea are democracies too, it doesn't mean that they are nice fair country. Also I never said said that Israel was not a democracy.

[Ijanderson977]

countries*

[Pumbaa]

TRD wrote:

<quoted text>Needless to say, since there is no attribution, this is a work of your own fiction.
I would think that rather than re-invent the wheel, Israel would follow the US model for building a case for invasion and then doing so precipitously. That's why I have so little faith in your 9-9-9 +/-9 prophesy. These things take much more time historically speaking.

Time is not on Israel's side. Neither is world support:

HEADING: Sarkozy: Israel strike on Iran would be catastrophe

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098840.h...

[Pumbaa]

NaNa wrote:

<quoted text>Such a cute post!
Unfortuanetly, the date of birth will be some time in Nov.
Taday was the day of revelation...
and this one will be a daughter.
I don't know if I'll be posting on the day of introduction:)
Man, 7/8/9 would've been pretty cool:)

Sorry about rushing things.

Glad to hear all is well!

[Pumbaa]

Merlin wrote:

<quoted text>
Your attempts to distort the timeline is unfortunately for your propoganda, contradicted by the actual LOGs from the incident.
Is my clipping of the LOGs invalid to you because you view that as plagiarism. Fool, in forums like this, as in conversation, it is not plagiarism, I am claiming no credit, academic or otherwise, simply injecting ideas (which you cannot handle) and facts into the conversation. Since you cannot refute nor dispute them you cry foul, too bad.
1400
Air attack commenced. Liberty reported her position as 31-23N, 33-25E [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Document 87 of Exhibit 48: DTG 081235Z June 1967, USS Saratoga to CINCUSNAVEUR.]
1404
Kursa Flight leaves Liberty. Royal Flight attacks Liberty
1412
The air attack is over
1424
Liberty records three (3) MTBs sighted abaft starboard beam, distance 3-4 miles.[USS Liberty Deck Log, 8 June 1967.]
1430
Liberty records starboard .50-caliber machine guns opened fire on MTBs. Captain ordered “hold fire.” Word passed to “standby torpedo attack starboard.”[US Naval Court of Inquiry/Exhibit 27: Chronology of Events and Record of Proceedings, p. 39; USS Liberty Deck Log, 8 June 1967.]
MTBs commence attack run after permission to do so from Naval HQ is granted.
The MTB Division 914 War Log records “detected firing flashes” at 1435, identification of the ship as the El Quiser at 1437, and attack commencing at 1440. Dispatched IAF helicopters are informed they are heading towards an attacked “warship.”[NSA audio tapes.]
1450
The MTBs are ordered to search for survivors and establish identity.[MTB Division 914 War Log.]
...so 1400 the air attack begins....1412 the air attack ends, 12 minutes long, then at 1430 the Liberty's 50 Cal opens fire on the MTBs, which conduct a torpedo run at 1440, and begin to search for survivors at 1450, so lets say 10 minutes. That is far short of the 90 minutes of the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941.
Maybe you need to reevaluate your propoganda laden education and hate filled delusions.

Where are your loyalties- America or Israel?

Heading: "New revelations in attack on American spy ship"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspa...

>An Israeli military court of inquiry later acknowledged that their naval headquarters knew at least three hours before the attack that the odd-looking ship 13 miles off the Sinai Peninsula, sprouting more than 40 antennas capable of receiving every kind of radio transmission, was "an electromagnetic audio-surveillance ship of the U.S. Navy," a floating electronic vacuum cleaner.

>The Israeli inquiry later concluded that that information had simply gotten lost, never passed along to the ground controllers who directed the air attack nor to the crews of the three Israeli torpedo boats who picked up where the air force left off, strafing the Liberty's decks with their machine guns and launching a torpedo that blew a 39-foot hole in its starboard side.

>To a man, the survivors interviewed by the Tribune rejected Israel's explanation.

>Nor, the survivors said, did they understand why the American 6th Fleet, which included the aircraft carriers America and Saratoga, patrolling 400 miles west of the Liberty, launched and then recalled at least two squadrons of Navy fighter-bombers that might have arrived in time to prevent the torpedo attack -- and save 26 American lives.

[Pumbaa]

From the same article:(quoted from the last page)

How the attack unfolded

National Security Agency documents recount the hours leading up to, during and after the attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli forces that killed 34.

EVENTS OF JUNE 8, 1967

6 a.m. An Israeli reconnaissance plane spots an unidentified ship 70 miles west of Tel Aviv.

9 a.m. A second Israeli reconnaissance plane spots an unidentified ship 20 miles north of El-Arish. Liberty's position is plotted on a map in green, designating a "neutral ship."

10:55 a.m. A naval liaison officer at Israeli Air Force headquarters informs Israeli Naval Headquarters that the previously unidentified ship is an "audio-surveillance ship of the U.S. Navy" named Liberty.

11 a.m. The acting chief of Israeli naval operations orders removal of Liberty from a plot table because he is no longer certain of its position.

11:30 a.m. The Israeli Navy receives an erroneous report that El-Arish is being shelled from the sea.

12:05 p.m. Three motor torpedo boats (MTBs) are ordered to proceed toward El-Arish.

THE ATTACK ON THE LIBERTY

1:56 p.m. Two Israeli Mirage III aircraft, followed by two Super Mystere aircraft, begin their attack on the Liberty.

2:14 p.m. The chief Israeli air controller in Tel Aviv tells the controller who is directing the attack on the Liberty that the ship is "apparently American."

2:20 p.m. The Israeli naval commander orders the commander of the Torpedo Boat Division to attack the Liberty. At almost the same time, the Naval Operations Branch orders: "Do not attack. It is possible that the aircraft have not identified correctly." The commander of the Torpedo Boat Division says he never got any order to cease the attack, although the deputy commander says he passed the message to the commander.

2:24 p.m. Liberty sights three MTBs 4-5 miles away and closing fast.

2:26 p.m. Liberty raises its largest American flag, the "Holiday colors."

2:27 p.m. Three torpedo boats begin strafing the Liberty and launch their six torpedoes.

2:28 p.m. Five torpedoes miss the ship, but one strikes the Liberty's right side, leaving a 39-foot hole.

THE AFTERMATH

2:29 p.m. Starting time for an NSA tape of Israeli communications after the attack. A previous tape, which presumably would have captured the air and torpedo attacks, is missing.

3:07 p.m. Israeli helicopters sent to rescue Liberty crewman from the sea arrive and "orbit" the heavily damaged vessel.

3:12 p.m. The helicopters' communications with the ground are intercepted by an American aircraft circling high above the scene. One helicopter pilot reports that he sees an American flag flying from the Liberty's mast.

3:16 p.m. An Israeli ground controller orders the helicopters to return to El Arish

Sources: National Security Agency documents, Tribune reporting

Chicago Tribune

[Eran Levi - Israel]

Pumbaa wrote:

Happy Birthday kid- So you only have 18 years of IDF reserve duty to go?
My birthday wish for you- May you never need to be called up.

I probably won't ever be called for reserves, since my unit the Civil Administration hardly ever needs its reserves save for large scale drills or real crisis.

The Civil Administration is responsible for the welfare of the civilian population in the west bank, and you too should join in prayer I'll never be needed for any crisis regarding these matters.

[TRD]

Pumbaa wrote:

<quoted text>
Time is not on Israel's side. Neither is world support:
HEADING: Sarkozy: Israel strike on Iran would be catastrophe
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098840.h...

It seems in this case that neither time, nor world support is on Pumbaa's side. If the Iraq model were to hold true, even +/- 9 years would leave you short. It took 13 years from the first UN resolution until invasion. The clock started running on Iran in 2006.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8928...

[Ahmad]

Eran Levi - Israel wrote:

<quoted text>

The Civil Administration is responsible for the welfare of the civilian population in the west bank, and you too should join in prayer I'll never be needed for any crisis regarding these matters.

Don't worry you will , it's just a matter of time ...

[Pastuh]

Eran Levi - Israel wrote:

<quoted text>
my unit the Civil Administration

Military unit of Civil Administration? May be you mean "Military Administration"?

[Eran Levi - Israel]

Shut up you two, Ahmad and Pastuh. I don't expect your gratitude, but at least keep quiet about things you know nothing about.

The Civil Administration is an underarm of the ministry of defense, dedicated in its entire to managing and assisting the local population of the west bank in all its needs and necessities.

I, like many other young men and women in my unit, have dedicated 3 years of my life for the sake of helping the Palestinians within the security limits, you could at least spare us the mockery.

[Ahmad]

Eran Levi - Israel wrote:

Shut up you two, Ahmad and Pastuh. I don't expect your gratitude, but at least keep quiet about things you know nothing about.
The Civil Administration is an underarm of the ministry of defense, dedicated in its entire to managing and assisting the local population of the west bank in all its needs and necessities.
I, like many other young men and women in my unit, have dedicated 3 years of my life for the sake of helping the Palestinians within the security limits, you could at least spare us the mockery.

Assisting Palestinians by making them dead ?
No , thanks !!

[Ahmad]

Hey TRD , your buddies are being slaughtered by the Taliban ....

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/07/a...

[Ijanderson977]

Ahmad wrote:

Hey TRD , your buddies are being slaughtered by the Taliban ....
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/07/a...

...and what will happen when Israel's buddies are not there to support Israel because they have gotten far too deep into their own problems/ mess? I think Israel will have its comeuppance and the Palestinians will have Justice. Hopefully this will all take place peacefully.

[Rovian]

Eran Levi - Israel wrote:

Shut up you two, Ahmad and Pastuh. I don't expect your gratitude, but at least keep quiet about things you know nothing about.
The Civil Administration is an underarm of the ministry of defense, dedicated in its entire to managing and assisting the local population of the west bank in all its needs and necessities.
I, like many other young men and women in my unit, have dedicated 3 years of my life for the sake of helping the Palestinians within the security limits, you could at least spare us the mockery.

God Bless the IDF

[Eran Levi - Israel]

Ahmad wrote:

Assisting Palestinians by making them dead ?
No , thanks !!

Ahmad, I bet as the resident of Nablus you know all about The Civil Administration (Al Idara Al Madiniye). You know very well the soldiers of the civil administration aren't involved in combat. They are the guys who give you permits to cross checkpoints, to bring in commerce and to get your ill and wounded to hospitals in Israel.

As an office manager of the Civil administration's west bank's family visit program for 8 months, I labored on granting tens of thousands of family relatives of Palestinians detainees see their loved ones on weekly basis.

I was working days and nights fighting the bureaucratic procedures it took to grant entrance permits to hundreds of Palestinian employees working for Diplomatic missions in the west bank so that their staffs could reach the Consulates and representative offices in Jerusalem or go about their businesses in Israel.

My unit is filled with people dedicating their military service to helping the Palestinians carry on their daily lives and progress towards independence despite Israel's security necessities and the restrictions imposed due to the rise of terrorism. You could at least spare them the undeserved venom.

The Civil Administration saved more Palestinian lives and helped more Palestinians then Hamas ever did. At least someone cares about you Ahmad, and I can't say its your mad champions, who are very quick to sacrifice everything and everyone to achieve their spiteful vengeance.

[TRD]

Ahmad wrote:

Hey TRD , your buddies are being slaughtered by the Taliban ....
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/07/a...

That's not a slaughter Ahmad. That's men at work. Are you ready to man-up? Because I think the Taliban will need your help before my guys are done.