Israeli troops begin Gaza pullout as Hamas declares cease-fire

Full story: Chicago Tribune

Israeli troops began withdrawing from the Gaza Strip on Sunday after Hamas declared a cease-fire, setting the stage for intensified international efforts to arrange a durable truce after a 22-day war against ...

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“Quality is always an accident”

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#65564
Nov 17, 2012
 
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>Yes! Fcuk all of me!
You thought you were out and I dragged you back in with their seductive rocket fire and pinpoint aerial assassinations. Oooooooooooh....I hate it when I do that.
Have you tried watching Fox? They're reporting live and betting on how long it will take to draw the US into the "war". If I didn't know better, I'd think they were trying to give Grey angina.
I love it. Level the shithole. Just don't like the news media updating us when we have real live Isreali's posting here. Color me impatient.
Uzi

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#65565
Nov 17, 2012
 
Rambone wrote:
Can the Zionist State redeem itself, can Shitsreal actually win this hopeless situation? Of course it can. All it would take from Shitrealis is to learn to LOVE their neighbors, to accept the Palestinian cause, to grasp that the rockets are actually a love letter to stolen land, cities, villages, fields and orchards. But can the Zionist State look in the mirror and grasp it all? Can the Zionist State understand its original sin, its own reality as a plundering oppressive entity? Yes, of course it can, only if it stops being a Zionist Apartheid State.
Hey ramdick, eat this, there are no Pals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

TRD

“The Real Deal”

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#65566
Nov 17, 2012
 
Ize Lost wrote:
<quoted text>
I love it. Level the shithole. Just don't like the news media updating us when we have real live Isreali's posting here. Color me impatient.
I guess it's just like any other day in the past 65 years for the Israelis...50/50 chance you'll have iron rain.

I'm still having trouble figuring the motivation for all this. Aside from my Persian prognostication, you don't suppose they really think they can win by shooting cigar tubes into Israel, do you? Seriously, if they could have an election I bet Gazans are getting pretty fed up with the suffering brought on by Hamas's impotent "war fighting". Every time one of the factions launches a rocket there's a good chance a dozen martyrs are about to be minted.

Maybe Uzi's right about how stupid they are.
Uzi

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#65567
Nov 17, 2012
 
Ize Lost wrote:
<quoted text>One would think we would get real time up-dates here from our Israeli posters. Maybe, the wi-fi doesn't extend to the bomb shelters. Is it less the media portrays? Should we be worried? I'm surprised the Jew haters haven't sent their regards. Fcuk all of you.
Ask me oh Yogi whatever you want to know and ye shall get it.
Meantime see what those terrible joooooos are doing in Gaza, they wont even let in building material so this report is not even true, right??

http://www.examiner.com/article/gaza-a-nation...
crazypeoplehere

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#65568
Nov 17, 2012
 
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>I guess it's just like any other day in the past 65 years for the Israelis...50/50 chance you'll have iron rain.
I'm still having trouble figuring the motivation for all this. Aside from my Persian prognostication, you don't suppose they really think they can win by shooting cigar tubes into Israel, do you? Seriously, if they could have an election I bet Gazans are getting pretty fed up with the suffering brought on by Hamas's impotent "war fighting". Every time one of the factions launches a rocket there's a good chance a dozen martyrs are about to be minted.
Maybe Uzi's right about how stupid they are.
Hello TRD

Everyone seems to be focusing on Hamas but there is more in the bigger picture.

Islamic Jihad and the Salafi groups in Gaza are more powerful than before.

Arms by the tons are moving around the region especially next door in Sinai.

Qatar leader just visited and they are also involved in Libyan coup, Syria coup and who knows what else.

Sudan bombing of a supposed missile factory, and Egypt being run by the Father org of Hamas may have an influence. And of course Iran and Syrian interests to put the limelight elsewhere.

Other powers from Egypt, Sinai, Lebanon, Syria and even Jordan may try to use this as an opportunity to start something bigger against Israel. If Israel enters Gaza with so many troops its other borders could be less secure.

It may be used to get the regional civilian population into intifada mode. May progress to include attacks from the West Bank, overthrow Abbas (also seems against their interests at present), Debka reported a few months ago of Hamas supporters in the Fatah/PLO infrastructure in the WB, its thought to be much worse than known.

It may even have been Bibi that decided to use this to take down Hamas/Pressure Iran to talk to the US (being reported in various media) test news tech for the possible coming war, or to be able to destroy the majority of tunnels used to smuggle weapons, maybe pressure Egypt to do more to stop the Jihadists in Sinai.

Still putting it all together i usually have a more focused answer but so much is happening in the region and so much has changed lately hard to always say what influences what.

TRD

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#65569
Nov 18, 2012
 
crazypeoplehere wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello TRD
Everyone seems to be focusing on Hamas but there is more in the bigger picture.
Islamic Jihad and the Salafi groups in Gaza are more powerful than before.
Arms by the tons are moving around the region especially next door in Sinai.
Qatar leader just visited and they are also involved in Libyan coup, Syria coup and who knows what else.
Sudan bombing of a supposed missile factory, and Egypt being run by the Father org of Hamas may have an influence. And of course Iran and Syrian interests to put the limelight elsewhere.
Other powers from Egypt, Sinai, Lebanon, Syria and even Jordan may try to use this as an opportunity to start something bigger against Israel. If Israel enters Gaza with so many troops its other borders could be less secure.
It may be used to get the regional civilian population into intifada mode. May progress to include attacks from the West Bank, overthrow Abbas (also seems against their interests at present), Debka reported a few months ago of Hamas supporters in the Fatah/PLO infrastructure in the WB, its thought to be much worse than known.
It may even have been Bibi that decided to use this to take down Hamas/Pressure Iran to talk to the US (being reported in various media) test news tech for the possible coming war, or to be able to destroy the majority of tunnels used to smuggle weapons, maybe pressure Egypt to do more to stop the Jihadists in Sinai.
Still putting it all together i usually have a more focused answer but so much is happening in the region and so much has changed lately hard to always say what influences what.
Always the master of understatement...that hasn't changed.

I've been scratching my head trying to identify the profit and/or profiteers in this latest iteration of Arab/Israeli brotherly love and I'm afraid your PM rises to the top of the heap as a suspect. Of all the button pushers in the region, he is the only one facing reelection and therefore the beneficiary of the groundswell of support that comes together when a nation, as a people, are threatened. No other leader in the region is smart enough to channel that energy successfully.

Mursi is waving around like a flag in a breeze, trying to prove that he has Islamic ideals at the heart of his administration while tip-toeing around the issue of USAID disappearing the moment he strikes Israel.(they'll never have a functioning sewer system then). Abdulluh II has as much as he can handle just dealing with a majority "Palestinian" population during these economic hard times. Lebanon will have to wait until the smoke clears in Syria before the people can rise up and take their country back from Hezbollah and Syria...well, is Syria. What can I say except that every Arab knows that the western world is judging them by how they deal (or don't deal) with the slaughter that is still going on and which they own lock, stock and barrel.

So, IMHO...Bibi did it.(damn Joos)
crazypeoplehere

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#65570
Nov 18, 2012
 
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>Always the master of understatement...that hasn't changed.
I've been scratching my head trying to identify the profit and/or profiteers in this latest iteration of Arab/Israeli brotherly love and I'm afraid your PM rises to the top of the heap as a suspect. Of all the button pushers in the region, he is the only one facing reelection and therefore the beneficiary of the groundswell of support that comes together when a nation, as a people, are threatened. No other leader in the region is smart enough to channel that energy successfully.
Mursi is waving around like a flag in a breeze, trying to prove that he has Islamic ideals at the heart of his administration while tip-toeing around the issue of USAID disappearing the moment he strikes Israel.(they'll never have a functioning sewer system then). Abdulluh II has as much as he can handle just dealing with a majority "Palestinian" population during these economic hard times. Lebanon will have to wait until the smoke clears in Syria before the people can rise up and take their country back from Hezbollah and Syria...well, is Syria. What can I say except that every Arab knows that the western world is judging them by how they deal (or don't deal) with the slaughter that is still going on and which they own lock, stock and barrel.
So, IMHO...Bibi did it.(damn Joos)
It makes sense that it could be an election ploy since people in the South of the country have had enough of Likud not protecting them.
Many Sefaradi Jews and Religious may leave his party because of Lieberman being perceived as racist and also anti religious. This idea has obviously been mentioned in Israeli press who are such lovers of Bibi. I am not sure how likely a full ground incursion is though on the one hand i hope a ceasefire is agreed upon to stop more deaths but on the other hand enough is enough if Bibi has a plan to take out Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza for good that could be better. Although giving Abbas control of Gaza with Israeli blood when he refuses to negotiate with Israel is not the best deal either.

complicated have to speak to friends in the security services see if they can tell me anything not classified.
crazypeoplehere

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#65571
Nov 18, 2012
 
btw rocks attacks against Jews throughout the West Bank against vehicles mostly have been carried out over the past few days. it is hard to get exact figures as these actions rarely make any news let alone mainstream.

TRD

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#65573
Nov 18, 2012
 
crazypeoplehere wrote:
<quoted text>
It makes sense that it could be an election ploy since people in the South of the country have had enough of Likud not protecting them.
Many Sefaradi Jews and Religious may leave his party because of Lieberman being perceived as racist and also anti religious. This idea has obviously been mentioned in Israeli press who are such lovers of Bibi. I am not sure how likely a full ground incursion is though on the one hand i hope a ceasefire is agreed upon to stop more deaths but on the other hand enough is enough if Bibi has a plan to take out Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza for good that could be better. Although giving Abbas control of Gaza with Israeli blood when he refuses to negotiate with Israel is not the best deal either.
complicated have to speak to friends in the security services see if they can tell me anything not classified.
Very complex...almost too complex for thinking which originates in-theater if you follow me.

Traditional arguments don't seem to drive the violence this time. Hamas still wants you dead...nothing's changed there. The factions can't or won't agree on a unity government and the outside agitators have different ID's. All it took was the motivation from an outsider and THEN the normal conflict takes over. If it wasn't Bibi and it wasn't Iran on behalf of Syria, WTF?

If my opinion means anything, plink these guys from the air. A ground incursion will turn sloppy fairly quickly and you'll be invaders again instead of occupiers. Another lesser-of-the-evils choice.
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#65574
Nov 18, 2012
 
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>Very complex...almost too complex for thinking which originates in-theater if you follow me.
Traditional arguments don't seem to drive the violence this time. Hamas still wants you dead...nothing's changed there. The factions can't or won't agree on a unity government and the outside agitators have different ID's. All it took was the motivation from an outsider and THEN the normal conflict takes over. If it wasn't Bibi and it wasn't Iran on behalf of Syria, WTF?
If my opinion means anything, plink these guys from the air. A ground incursion will turn sloppy fairly quickly and you'll be invaders again instead of occupiers. Another lesser-of-the-evils choice.
I am not even Israeli let alone in a position to be involved in decision making. So i can do as much as you unless i go on the streets which is not really good to pressure a gov which is finally acting.

A ground incursion would probably turn the West against Israel on this matter even though it would be justified. Bib is known for being very good at passing time and getting nothing done but also generally have a low casualty term on both sides.

The problem is that this whole process is going to be repeated again and against until Hamas are taken out and even then who knows who will take over. Israelis are sick and tired of a decade of rockets in the South and if the Government does not act it is possible that Israeli civilians who include many highly trained soldiers will act on their own. this is highly unlikely in the near future but with the word on the street people are pissed off.
Not to mention if a regional war started have Hamas out of the way could be detrimental to winning the battle.

Then again i do not have the classified documentation nor do i have the smallest idea of Israeli technology as most the advanced stuff is secret and has not been used in wartime yet.
I do not have details as secrets are still kept in Israel but have spoken to many friends in more of a position to know.

TRD

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#65575
Nov 18, 2012
 
crazypeoplehere wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not even Israeli let alone in a position to be involved in decision making. So i can do as much as you unless i go on the streets which is not really good to pressure a gov which is finally acting.
A ground incursion would probably turn the West against Israel on this matter even though it would be justified. Bib is known for being very good at passing time and getting nothing done but also generally have a low casualty term on both sides.
The problem is that this whole process is going to be repeated again and against until Hamas are taken out and even then who knows who will take over. Israelis are sick and tired of a decade of rockets in the South and if the Government does not act it is possible that Israeli civilians who include many highly trained soldiers will act on their own. this is highly unlikely in the near future but with the word on the street people are pissed off.
Not to mention if a regional war started have Hamas out of the way could be detrimental to winning the battle.
Then again i do not have the classified documentation nor do i have the smallest idea of Israeli technology as most the advanced stuff is secret and has not been used in wartime yet.
I do not have details as secrets are still kept in Israel but have spoken to many friends in more of a position to know.
All the technology in the world won't help the soldiers whose feet hit those streets. Even Trophy can be overwhelmed making Israel's heavy armor vulnerable to AT rockets. Nope, it will be old-school house to house and the situation will change every time they round a corner.

For what?

Let's say all goes as planned and the operation yields positive results...what would that look like? Capturing large caches of rockets and other ordinance? Back when I did this stuff we found those things via secondary explosions. In fact, those indelible affidavits of performance were far superior to passive discovery. The public was far less likely to allow the placement of stores in populated areas when they saw the results.

Plus, the enemy is far less anxious to continue against an opponent who practices accuracy by volume.
Uzi

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#65576
Nov 18, 2012
 
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>All the technology in the world won't help the soldiers whose feet hit those streets. Even Trophy can be overwhelmed making Israel's heavy armor vulnerable to AT rockets. Nope, it will be old-school house to house and the situation will change every time they round a corner.
For what?
Let's say all goes as planned and the operation yields positive results...what would that look like? Capturing large caches of rockets and other ordinance? Back when I did this stuff we found those things via secondary explosions. In fact, those indelible affidavits of performance were far superior to passive discovery. The public was far less likely to allow the placement of stores in populated areas when they saw the results.
Plus, the enemy is far less anxious to continue against an opponent who practices accuracy by volume.
arab muslims dont have a choice of whats being put in or under their homes. Hammas is not a democracy. You speak up againts them and you dissapear forever.
crazypeoplehere

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#65577
Nov 18, 2012
 
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>All the technology in the world won't help the soldiers whose feet hit those streets. Even Trophy can be overwhelmed making Israel's heavy armor vulnerable to AT rockets. Nope, it will be old-school house to house and the situation will change every time they round a corner.
For what?
Let's say all goes as planned and the operation yields positive results...what would that look like? Capturing large caches of rockets and other ordinance? Back when I did this stuff we found those things via secondary explosions. In fact, those indelible affidavits of performance were far superior to passive discovery. The public was far less likely to allow the placement of stores in populated areas when they saw the results.
Plus, the enemy is far less anxious to continue against an opponent who practices accuracy by volume.
Whilst America and probably most other countries in the world would get away with carpet bombing when necessary Israeli cannot even cause one instance of multiple casualties before the majority abroad are calling for a cessation of military activity.
I do not believe that the civilians in Gaza have a choice whether their property is used as storage. And its in Hamas interest to cause as many casualties on their own side as possible to blame Israel.
BBC have already been caught this time showing fake footage of a dead man who is mysteriously resurrected minutes later. Pallywood is back for another round.

Here is the problem eventually at some point Israel will have to enter Gaza to stop the missiles and the longer it takes the more advanced Hamas IJ and co become. Also better to fight on our terms than theirs especially if Iran conflict grows.
They apparently now have, anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, tunnels throughout the land, long range missiles, may have increased distance of kassams to reach Jerusalem and parts of the West Bank. not to mention all the extra tools and training received from Iran and Hizballah.
Only time shall tell but not in the mood for war especially during the winter. Emergency supplies here we come.

TRD

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#65578
Nov 18, 2012
 
Uzi wrote:
<quoted text>
arab muslims dont have a choice of whats being put in or under their homes. Hammas is not a democracy. You speak up againts them and you dissapear forever.
Tough choice...disappeared whole by your own or disappeared at the molecular level by your enemies. Hmmmmmm.

I almost just wrote that sooner or later you're going to have to cut these a-holes some slack.(but I caught myself)

TRD

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#65579
Nov 18, 2012
 
crazypeoplehere wrote:
<quoted text>
Whilst America and probably most other countries in the world would get away with carpet bombing when necessary Israeli cannot even cause one instance of multiple casualties before the majority abroad are calling for a cessation of military activity.
I do not believe that the civilians in Gaza have a choice whether their property is used as storage. And its in Hamas interest to cause as many casualties on their own side as possible to blame Israel.
BBC have already been caught this time showing fake footage of a dead man who is mysteriously resurrected minutes later. Pallywood is back for another round.
Here is the problem eventually at some point Israel will have to enter Gaza to stop the missiles and the longer it takes the more advanced Hamas IJ and co become. Also better to fight on our terms than theirs especially if Iran conflict grows.
They apparently now have, anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, tunnels throughout the land, long range missiles, may have increased distance of kassams to reach Jerusalem and parts of the West Bank. not to mention all the extra tools and training received from Iran and Hizballah.
Only time shall tell but not in the mood for war especially during the winter. Emergency supplies here we come.
Kind of like hurricane season here. Fill the cupboards with shelf-stable groceries and never have more than $50 worth of perishables in the freezer until after November 30th.

I decided I'm going with Iran, the atomic candlestick, in the library.

The Persians can't afford to lose their stepping stone to Israel and their (figurative) ship in Syria is taking on water. There is no easier way for them to distract the Arab world than with an Israeli/Palestinian crisis. All they needed was for Israel to whack a few civilians and the volume automatically goes up in the Ummah.

Meanwhile, do you know where your WMD's are Mr. Assad? It's classic sleight of hand. I picture Hamas agreeing to take one for the team in exchange for some future favors from Iran and an uninterrupted supply of larger rockets for them to torment you.

TRD

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#65580
Nov 18, 2012
 
Arab News of Saudi Arabia

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#65581
Nov 19, 2012
 
Rambone

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#65583
Nov 19, 2012
 
Great Satan and Shitreal's new Doctrine = Kill and be killed - you can run but you can't hide behind the apartheid wall

TRD

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#65584
Nov 19, 2012
 
Arab News of Saudi Arabia wrote:
EXACTLY!

I've been reading Abdulateef Al Mulhim for years now and there is something I don't get about him...how he's still alive. His commentary, with few exceptions, has been fair, balanced and self-aware. When he sees wrong in the Arab world he has been unafraid to speak up. When he makes suggestions as to course corrections for the Arab/Muslim world, they usually make sense. I just don't get how he gets away with it.(must be related to someone important)

TRD

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#65585
Nov 19, 2012
 
Rambone wrote:
Great Satan and Shitreal's new Doctrine = Kill and be killed - you can run but you can't hide behind the apartheid wall
What's next Stewy?

Is the great nation of Persia going to mop the floor with Jew-heads? You of all people would benefit greatly from a high colonic. Do it today...you'll thank me for it.

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