Prisoner Deal Criticized

The deal, in which a notorious Lebanese attacker, four other militants and the bodies of 199 Arab fighters were traded for two dead Israeli soldiers at the border crossing of Rosh Hanikra, closed a painful ...

[true american]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-334...

[Disbelief in AZ]

This is a sad day for those who seek a just world. The Israelis made a poor decision in doing this deal with the devil. Essentially, this is what they said to terrorists who prey on their people:

"You have an avenue to get away with murder. Here's all you need to do. Violate our borders when you wish and kill any number of our citizens -- men, women or children. If we catch and imprison the perpetrator, you may obtain a 'get-of jail' card by kidnapping and murdering more Israelis and holding their corpses as currency to buy the release of the prisoner."

Does this sound insane? Well, it is, and Israel didn't do itself any favors. As for Hezbollah, they showed their true colors. Who else would stage a hero's welcome home for someone who murdered a man in front of his four-year-old daughter, and then smashed the girl's skull with his rifle butt? Israel must do all it can to obtain peace, but is obligated to destroy Hezbollah if they continue their atrocities.

[suzu]

" closed a painful chapter from Israel's 2006 war in Lebanon."

why did israel start this painful chapter, marauding through lebanon, leaving thousands of illegal clusterbombs?
it was a barbaric invasion and because the barbaric invasion was not as successful as they had hoped they whined and whined about their army and its leaders: they did not kill and destroy enough!

[suzu]

Disbelief in AZ wrote:

This is a sad day for those who seek a just world. The Israelis made a poor decision in doing this deal with the devil. Essentially, this is what they said to terrorists who prey on their people:
"You have an avenue to get away with murder. Here's all you need to do. Violate our borders when you wish and kill any number of our citizens -- men, women or children. If we catch and imprison the perpetrator, you may obtain a 'get-of jail' card by kidnapping and murdering more Israelis and holding their corpses as currency to buy the release of the prisoner."
Does this sound insane? Well, it is, and Israel didn't do itself any favors. As for Hezbollah, they showed their true colors. Who else would stage a hero's welcome home for someone who murdered a man in front of his four-year-old daughter, and then smashed the girl's skull with his rifle butt? Israel must do all it can to obtain peace, but is obligated to destroy Hezbollah if they continue their atrocities.

the israelis are sure that their lives are worth so much more than arab lives, so it follows that this is the kind of trade they have to make. if they did not have the racist attitudes toward their untermenschen arabs whose land they took they would not have to make these deals that you think are so unfair.

[Semper Fi]

I've never understood Israel's willingness to trade live prisoners for corpses.

It seems to me that because of this willingness, the other side has no incentive in keeping captured Israeli soldiers alive.

[Disbelief in AZ]

suzu wrote:

<quoted text>
the israelis are sure that their lives are worth so much more than arab lives, so it follows that this is the kind of trade they have to make. if they did not have the racist attitudes toward their untermenschen arabs whose land they took they would not have to make these deals that you think are so unfair.

You need to sharpen your history knowledge. The Jews were ready to share the land and live in peace from day one of the partition in 1948. Those who are in distress as a result of displacement have only themselves to blame, as all of Israel's neighbors attacked the new state upon its birth. Their goal: conquering all the land for themselves and destroying the Jews. The Israelis know that the region will prosper and all will benefit if peace is forged. Unfortunately, Hezbollah, Hamas and their ilk are not prepared to make peace, as they are unwilling to give up their stated objective of destroying Israel. Don't preach to me about racism, for this scourge is alive and well among these groups. Why else would one of these monsters murder a four-year-old Jewish girl? If you can't see it, I'll tell you -- blind and consuming hatred of Jews. Instead of trying to lift themselves up, which they seem incapable of doing, they need to tear others down. Who else but these sociopaths would give a hero's welcome home to that child murderer? Again, don't preach to me if you have nothing of substance to say!

[Critical Bill]

Disbelief in AZ wrote:

This is a sad day for those who seek a just world. The Israelis made a poor decision in doing this deal with the devil. Essentially, this is what they said to terrorists who prey on their people:
"You have an avenue to get away with murder. Here's all you need to do. Violate our borders when you wish and kill any number of our citizens -- men, women or children. If we catch and imprison the perpetrator, you may obtain a 'get-of jail' card by kidnapping and murdering more Israelis and holding their corpses as currency to buy the release of the prisoner."
Does this sound insane? Well, it is, and Israel didn't do itself any favors. As for Hezbollah, they showed their true colors. Who else would stage a hero's welcome home for someone who murdered a man in front of his four-year-old daughter, and then smashed the girl's skull with his rifle butt? Israel must do all it can to obtain peace, but is obligated to destroy Hezbollah if they continue their atrocities.

Yeah and they leave it the Tax payers of America to sort it all out!!!

[Disbelief in AZ]

Mr Truthiness wrote:

<quoted text>
You need to learn to heed your own advice before dispensing it to others. The Israelis had already begun illegally expanding their proposed borders through terrorist attacks before the Partition Plan was finalized, and LONG before any Arab attacks occurred.
"The Zionist forces started the war in early April 1948 by launching Plan Dalet. Plan Dalet was launched to conquer and ethnically cleanse the country and was not a defence against an Arab invasion."
http://www.mideastweb.org/pland.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/histori...

Although you profess superior knowledge, and mock mine, your weak attempt to pick apart my argument falls flat. Looks like you have no legs to stand on here. In fact, your historical references prove my point. If it wasn't for "Plan D," the infant Jewish state might have been destroyed. The founders of the State of Israel knew full well that they would be attacked once British forces left the area. Before the plan was initiated, the Arab Liberation Army and the Trans-Jordanian Arab Legion were operating in British Palestine together with local irregular forces, and Jerusalem was under Arab blockade. The British army had not yet left and an invasion by the regular armies of the Arab League was expected. Thus, to strengthen the integrity of the Jewish borders, and protect the lives of citizens outside those borders, this proactive plan was established to prevent hostile forces from gaining an upper hand and threatening the survival of the new state. Fortunately, these measures proved helpful, as the combined armies of the Arabs, poised for aggression once the U.N. partition went into effect, were repelled when their plan of conquest was launched. This preemptive action by Israel can be compared to the Six Day War of 1967. If you know a larger force is preparing to attack, it is better to take away as much of their advantage as possible than wait for a potentially disastrous invasion of your homeland. As far as your quote is concerned, it is obviously an incendiary comment from an adversary. So much for "Mr. Truthiness." How about trying Mr. Clueless on for size?

[Disbelief in AZ]

Critical Bill wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah and they leave it the Tax payers of America to sort it all out!!!

Let's not forget the murder of 241 of our countrymen on October 23, 1983. During the Lebanese Civil War, two truck bombs struck buildings in Beirut housing U.S. and French members of the Multinational Force of peace keepers in Lebanon, killing hundreds of servicemen, the majority being U.S. Marines. Hezbollah was behind this atrocity, receiving help from Iran. These two entities continue to do all they can to bring harm to the U.S. and undermine stability in the Middle East. If we devote taxpayer resources to that region to protect our security and national interests against extremely hostile groups and their state sponsors, I'm all for it. And this is coming from someone who pays a boatload of taxes!

[Disbelief in AZ]

Mr Truthiness wrote:

<quoted text>
You would have to be completely clueless or in denial to believe that.
You wrote....
"The Jews were ready to share the land and live in peace from day one of the partition in 1948. "
To which I replied, with references...
""The Zionist forces started the war in early April 1948 by launching Plan Dalet. Plan Dalet was launched to conquer and ethnically cleanse the country and was not a defence against an Arab invasion."
Hard to be planning to 'live in peace', when you implement a plan to preemptively drive people from their homes and seize their land, wouldn't you say?

My goodness! You just don't get it! All you can do is repost that racially-charged, opinionated and baseless quotation. The Jews were ready to live in peace, if only they could. Hostile Arab forces derailed any such hopes and forced the new state to take defensive action. That being said, let's move to the present. I still believe peace is possible, but the enemies of Israel must renounce their goal of destroying the Jewish State. In return, Israel must be ready to go back to the pre-1967 borders, or close to them, and agree to share Jerusalem with the Palestinians. Here's the question at hand: Are your anti-Israel cousins in Gaza, south Lebanon, Syria and Iran willing to accept the existence of the Jewish State and forge a lasting peace? There might be some hope for you and your kind, but a reality check is in order.

[Ron]

I say let the terrorist and Iraelis fight their own war and leave us out of it. If Israel want to release 5 nastiest terrorist for 2 dead Israeli soilders, then Israel should just empty their entire prison system and shut the hell up when they get attacked again.

[Disbelief in AZ]

Mr Truthiness wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, and if you recall, Israel admitted to having prior intelligence regarding this impending attack, and decided to not share it with us.

Stop trying to twist the truth. What you refer to is an allegation by one person contained in a book he was promoting. That being said, there is no supporting evidence that Israel had foreknowledge of the attack. At best, they knew that some type of car bombing might happen at an unknown place and at an unknown time. After the attack, Gen. James Mead, who was the Marine commander in Beirut, said that he had received dozens of warnings about vehicles that might be carrying bombs.''We were told this every day,'' he said. The Israelis couldn't have helped to prevent the attack. Anyway, if you're trying to insinuate that we have a better friend in the Middle East than Israel, you're either brain dead or just hate that country. I think it's both.

[Disbelief in AZ]

Mr Truthiness wrote:

<quoted text>
I provided THREE references for my claim, you've provided nothing but ad hominem attacks.
There is nothing racially charged about those links, they're undeniable facts. You're the one relying on opinion and baseless claims.

You're like a pathetic dog chasing its own tail. Your references don't prove anything, other than Plan D was instituted by the Jewish State to save its skin from a circling pack of jackals. I'm done arguing with you, my foolish friend. There's no point in debating someone whose thinking is so disfigured by fiction. Good luck to you. You'll need it. I'm done here.

[Israel1948]

Ron wrote:

I say let the terrorist and Iraelis fight their own war and leave us out of it. If Israel want to release 5 nastiest terrorist for 2 dead Israeli soilders, then Israel should just empty their entire prison system and shut the hell up when they get attacked again.

Leave japan out of it? Since when has japan ever been involved in an arab-Israeli war?

[Israel1948]

Mr Truthiness wrote:

<quoted text>
You need to learn to heed your own advice before dispensing it to others. The Israelis had already begun illegally expanding their proposed borders through terrorist attacks before the Partition Plan was finalized, and LONG before any Arab attacks occurred.
"The Zionist forces started the war in early April 1948 by launching Plan Dalet. Plan Dalet was launched to conquer and ethnically cleanse the country and was not a defence against an Arab invasion."
http://www.mideastweb.org/pland.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/histori...

You know whats funny, you take one link from an anti-Zionist, you take another link from a pro-arab site, but you take a link from a Jewish site that rejects the "ethnic cleansing".

Nonetheless, contrary to the assertions of some, none of the following seem to be evident in the plan as published:

*

It was not a plan for mass expulsion or "ethnic cleansing" of Palestinians from wide areas

*

It was not an offensive plan-- it was meant to activated only in the event of an attack initiated by the Arab side, though that attack was thought to be inevitable.

*

It did not call for massacres such as the massacre perpetrated at Deir Yassin by the dissident Irgun and Lehi forces.

*

It was not an "expansionist" plan: "Generally, the aim of this plan is not an operation of occupation outside the borders of the Hebrew state."

Maybe you should read your links before acting like you know everything that's on it.

[Andy]

Mr Truthiness wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, and if you recall, Israel admitted to having prior intelligence regarding this impending attack, and decided to not share it with us.

The a..hole is lieing again and again. As usual.
Idiot.

[Andy]

Ron wrote:

I say let the terrorist and Iraelis fight their own war and leave us out of it. If Israel want to release 5 nastiest terrorist for 2 dead Israeli soilders, then Israel should just empty their entire prison system and shut the hell up when they get attacked again.

Thanks, but I just cant recall when was the last time Israel begged Japan for any help except in making shusi.

[Andy]

Disbelief in AZ wrote:

<quoted text>
You're like a pathetic dog chasing its own tail. Your references don't prove anything, other than Plan D was instituted by the Jewish State to save its skin from a circling pack of jackals. I'm done arguing with you, my foolish friend. There's no point in debating someone whose thinking is so disfigured by fiction. Good luck to you. You'll need it. I'm done here.

He is nothing less than a brainless midget of giant proportions. Just another barking skinhead anti semite neonazi bum. Not even worth stepping on. Idiot.

[reza santorini]

suzu wrote:

" closed a painful chapter from Israel's 2006 war in Lebanon."
why did israel start this painful chapter, marauding through lebanon, leaving thousands of illegal clusterbombs?
it was a barbaric invasion and because the barbaric invasion was not as successful as they had hoped they whined and whined about their army and its leaders: they did not kill and destroy enough!

Suzu even Nasarullah or Hezzies admitted they received help from Iran by having tanks, that they had spies tapping into Israel communication to know where the soldiers would be (on Israeli soil) and other aid. Please read the newspapers of the time of the
time and the magazines Newsweek, Time etc. Al Jazeera is not enough. They were claiming unfair as they were bragging they were winning.

Israel killed more, but Israel sheltered their people in underground facilities...these people included
Muslims, Christians and Jews. They didn't hide amongst civilians...they
didn't hide behind them


Israel loves their people..Muslims never do justice to their people.

Israel paid money to some of these prisoners families while incarcerated, while Hezzies let theirs die.

Typical.

Don't cry for the billions of Muslims who pick cruel inhumane leaders amongst the billions of oil rich countries.

[suzu]

Disbelief in AZ wrote:

<quoted text>
You need to sharpen your history knowledge. The Jews were ready to share the land and live in peace from day one of the partition in 1948. Those who are in distress as a result of displacement have only themselves to blame, as all of Israel's neighbors attacked the new state upon its birth. Their goal: conquering all the land for themselves and destroying the Jews. The Israelis know that the region will prosper and all will benefit if peace is forged. Unfortunately, Hezbollah, Hamas and their ilk are not prepared to make peace, as they are unwilling to give up their stated objective of destroying Israel. Don't preach to me about racism, for this scourge is alive and well among these groups. Why else would one of these monsters murder a four-year-old Jewish girl? If you can't see it, I'll tell you -- blind and consuming hatred of Jews. Instead of trying to lift themselves up, which they seem incapable of doing, they need to tear others down. Who else but these sociopaths would give a hero's welcome home to that child murderer? Again, don't preach to me if you have nothing of substance to say!

and what historical information am i missing when i think israelis are robbing palestinians by contiuing to build illegal settlements on the west bank?