Editorial: Education, not hysteria, works to stop youth crime

Jan 21, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The New Zealand Herald

Seven years ago, the Principal Youth Court Judge, Andrew Becroft, declared that education was the ultimate crime-fighting tool.

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“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#1
Jan 21, 2013
 
"It is now firmly established that a boy attending school regularly is much less likely to become involved in crime, even if he is not achieving academically."

"And that absence from school is closely linked to offending. It is important, therefore, for schools to have alternatives to suspension and expulsion. "

"The latest figures also reflect the input of the Ministry of Education, which has been working with schools with the highest expulsion rates to reduce these, especially for Maori and Pasifika pupils."

we have to make sure our schools cater for a diverse range of interests and options. a good school should be able to offer everything from trades courses and university degrees.

gone are the days where people had very limited, compulsory options. let's face it, not everyone wants to be a mathematician or a rocket scientist. some people like outdoors jobs and fixing cars, looking after people or sport....
Must_be_joking_m e

Sydney, Australia

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#2
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Adam Rangiaho wrote:
"It is now firmly established that a boy attending school regularly is much less likely to become involved in crime, even if he is not achieving academically."
"And that absence from school is closely linked to offending. It is important, therefore, for schools to have alternatives to suspension and expulsion. "
"The latest figures also reflect the input of the Ministry of Education, which has been working with schools with the highest expulsion rates to reduce these, especially for Maori and Pasifika pupils."
we have to make sure our schools cater for a diverse range of interests and options. a good school should be able to offer everything from trades courses and university degrees.
gone are the days where people had very limited, compulsory options. let's face it, not everyone wants to be a mathematician or a rocket scientist. some people like outdoors jobs and fixing cars, looking after people or sport....
Ah yes more Maori "hand-out" mentality.
So can you explain to me why people from cultures far more alien to NZ, succeed in NZ's education system where Maoris and Islanders fail dismally? Is there any catering for them and their "diverse range of interests and options"? And yet we see students from backgrounds such as Indian, Chinese, Balkan succeeding in NZ's education system. Who has more in common with NZ's societal and educational values? them or NZ's highly-anglicised (part) Maoris?

NZ's secondary education system already lags that of the EU in the fields of Mathematics, History, Art, Classics, Music, Economics, Chemistry and Physics. NZ is equivalent in some subjects such as Biology but overall it's been dumbed-down. And yet for the sakes of patronising failure, you're prepared to dumb-it-down further?

Hey I've got a better idea: Why don't you Maoris get your lazy, low-brow, uncivilised arses into gear and start valuing education more and studying instead of valuing minor sports and violence?

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#3
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey I've got a better idea: Why don't you Maoris get your lazy, low-brow, uncivilised arses into gear and start valuing education more and studying instead of valuing minor sports and violence?
you have NO idea what you are talking about.....
Must_be_joking_m e

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#4
Jan 21, 2013
 
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
you have NO idea what you are talking about.....
I often encounter University-educated New Zealanders as part of my profession.
They seem to come from every ethnic group EXCEPT Maoris.

They're Anglos, Dutch, Hindus, Chinese, even Islanders. I've even worked with a New Zealander of Russian background.

But never ever do I come across Maoris.

And the comments on here further confirm this observation. Whenever any of these insecure little Maoris start talking themselves-up on here what do they almost ALWAYS say? "Oh we can beat you up" "Oh we're good at sports, look at this nobody who plays NRL".

Just face it: Maoris have some growing-up to do and some hard admissions to make.

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#5
Jan 21, 2013
 
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>I often encounter University-educated New Zealanders as part of my profession.
They seem to come from every ethnic group EXCEPT Maoris..
a few things.....

1st, you are in the wrong country. all the maori live here. this is their home where their whanau is.

2nd, there are 16 maori at my work who have degrees.

3rd, we have hundreds of university graduates per year, from every department and campus in nz....

now what? what you got to say about that? what's your profession anyway? apart from anon internet troll.......

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#6
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>
And the comments on here further confirm this observation. Whenever any of these insecure little Maoris start talking themselves-up on here what do they almost ALWAYS say? "Oh we can beat you up" "Oh we're good at sports, look at this nobody who plays NRL".
what has that comment got to do with this thread?

this is about youth and the availability of a full and meaningful education to suit their needs.

this is about education, it's not all about maori pal........ sheesh....!!! get a grip.
Must_be_joking_m e

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#7
Jan 21, 2013
 
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
a few things.....
1st, you are in the wrong country. all the maori live here. this is their home where their whanau is.
2nd, there are 16 maori at my work who have degrees.
3rd, we have hundreds of university graduates per year, from every department and campus in nz....
now what? what you got to say about that? what's your profession anyway? apart from anon internet troll.......
All you have to know about my job is that it's better than any job you'll ever get and that I never have to deal with any Maori who isn't a cleaner or in the mailroom or the warehouse.

I live in Australia, where over 1/6 of all Maoris on this earth now live and in ever increasing numbers. I see them often, usually doing unskilled labour but sometimes as tradesmen.

The only degrees I can imagine any of the many I've encoutnered ever managing would be in a soft discipline such as Maori studies or Primary education or Physical education. I'm guessing you either work in a gym or in a primary school.
Must_be_joking_m e

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#8
Jan 21, 2013
 
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
what has that comment got to do with this thread?
this is about youth and the availability of a full and meaningful education to suit their needs.
this is about education, it's not all about maori pal........ sheesh....!!! get a grip.
It's a demonstration of how Maoris value the wrong things.

You said something in your original post about how education should also cater for kids interested in sports.
Hahahahaha no.
I can't see why Sport shouldn't be out of education altogether beyond PE class. It should be a leisure activity handled by independant clubs, who can take it upon themselves to decide who has worthwhile potential for a serious competitive career.
At the end of the day only a mere handful of youth sportsmen ever make anything of a career of it as adults. Sporting abilities are probably the most owrthless for the vast majority of us in everyday life.

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#9
Jan 21, 2013
 
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm guessing.......
you sure are...and it's obvious.....

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#10
Jan 21, 2013
 
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>It's a demonstration of how Maoris value the wrong things.
like i said, this has NOTHING to do with maori.... i never even mentioned maori.....
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>

I can't see why Sport shouldn't be out of education altogether beyond PE class. It should be a leisure activity handled by independant clubs, who can take it upon themselves to decide who has worthwhile potential for a serious competitive career.
again, you DON"T know what you are talking about. there are MANY careers out there for sports minded people.....do i even have to list them for you? sheesh and you call teaching degrees soft?!

think about it........you have narrowly focucced on a playing career.....you forgot all bout ALL of the sports support services that go with it....coaches, trainers, experts, managers, mentors, ref's, admin...bay..the list goes on......
Must_be_joking_m e

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#11
Jan 21, 2013
 
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
you sure are...and it's obvious.....
Well you're not going to be working with graduates in Science, Law, Commerce or Engineering if most of them are Maoris. And you know it.
Must_be_joking_m e

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#12
Jan 21, 2013
 
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
like i said, this has NOTHING to do with maori.... i never even mentioned maori.....[/quote]I mentioned Maori, because your whole attitude that the same educational system and curricula that has served modern civilisation so well across the world should be altered in NZ to suit people who fail it (which we all know Maoris are a large proportion of) is typical of Maori attitudes and their bad values. Rather than valuing taking education seriously and working harder for it, they want the system changed to suit them and their slack study ethic.
And part of where Maori values are so askew is how they value sport far too much. It's all part of this cop-out delusion that Maoris get by with brawn instead of brains.[QUOTE who="Adam Rangiaho"]again, you DON"T know what you are talking about. there are MANY careers out there for sports minded people.....do i even have to list them for you?[/quote]Realistically how many careers can there be in wider society? Aside from the very few who make it as professional sportsmen, there's not much beyond. In tital you're looking at an industry that can employ at best a few hundred barely one thousand in a population of every million.[QUOTE who="Adam Rangiaho"]sheesh and you call teaching degrees soft?![/quote]Well they are. Almost anyone could get a bachelors degree to be a primary teacher but very few primary teachers could even do a secondary school teacher's job. Does getting a primary school teachers degree require long journals or assignments? long laboratory sessions and reports? Mind-numbing mathematical calculations, analysis and modelling?
It is a soft course of study and it's evident by the general low calibre of graduate.[QUOTE who="Adam Rangiaho"]think about it........you have narrowly focucced on a playing career.....you forgot all bout ALL of the sports support services that go with it....coaches, trainers, experts, managers, mentors, ref's, admin...bay..the list goes on......
The vast majority of coaches are former players themselves.
There can only be one "manager" for every team of 20-30 players.
Much of those administrators are merely financial professionals who require not a shred of knowledge of the sport itself, and unsurprising many don't.

And it shows that very few of the youth who pursue serious sports development actually end-up with a career in that sport. Many end-up as personal trainers, many more end up as something completely different, often unskilled. Many end-up on society's scrap-heap.
Aside from the few very gifted elite (with the right attitude); sport is not something youth should be encouraged to pursue seriously.
Must_be_joking_m e

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#13
Jan 21, 2013
 
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
like i said, this has NOTHING to do with maori.... i never even mentioned maori.....
I mentioned Maori, because your whole attitude that the same educational system and curricula that has served modern civilisation so well across the world should be altered in NZ to suit people who fail it (which we all know Maoris are a large proportion of) is typical of Maori attitudes and their bad values. Rather than valuing taking education seriously and working harder for it, they want the system changed to suit them and their slack study ethic.
And part of where Maori values are so askew is how they value sport far too much. It's all part of this cop-out delusion that Maoris get by with brawn instead of brains.
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
again, you DON"T know what you are talking about. there are MANY careers out there for sports minded people.....do i even have to list them for you?
Realistically how many careers can there be in wider society? Aside from the very few who make it as professional sportsmen, there's not much beyond. In tital you're looking at an industry that can employ at best a few hundred barely one thousand in a population of every million.
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
sheesh and you call teaching degrees soft?!
Well they are. Almost anyone could get a bachelors degree to be a primary teacher but very few primary teachers could even do a secondary school teacher's job. Does getting a primary school teachers degree require long journals or assignments? long laboratory sessions and reports? Mind-numbing mathematical calculations, analysis and modelling?
It is a soft course of study and it's evident by the general low calibre of graduate.

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#14
Jan 21, 2013
 
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>Well you're not going to be working with graduates in Science, Law, Commerce or Engineering if most of them are Maoris. And you know it.
i think you need to go back to school.....omgoodness.....

to teach science in a high school...you MUST have a science degree..... same with all other subjects taught at that level.....

http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/qualifications-standa...

like i keep saying...you are guessing....you dont know what you are talking about.
Must_be_joking_m e

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#15
Jan 21, 2013
 
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
i think you need to go back to school.....omgoodness.....
to teach science in a high school...you MUST have a science degree..... same with all other subjects taught at that level.....
http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/qualifications-standa...
like i keep saying...you are guessing....you dont know what you are talking about.
Yeah, that's at secondary school.

To teach at secondary school under the British commonwealth system; you need a university undergraduate degree then a post-graduate teachers diploma.
That's not a soft teaching degree that you need to teach at primary school (that Maoris would be capable of).

Either you don't know what you're talking about of you're trying to twist the truth.

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#16
Jan 21, 2013
 
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text> Does getting a primary school teachers degree require long journals or assignments?
yes it does, along with practical...
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text> long laboratory sessions and reports? Mind-numbing mathematical calculations, analysis and modelling?
yes it does.
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a soft course of study and it's evident by the general low calibre of graduate.
so all primary school teachers have "soft degrees"....really? and are of a general low calibre?

lol...as if you'd know......

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#17
Jan 21, 2013
 
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>
Either you don't know what you're talking about of you're trying to twist the truth.
you said.... "Well you're not going to be working with graduates in Science, Law, Commerce or Engineering if most of them are Maoris. And you know it."

and i proved you wrong....... i DO work with maori who have science degrees..... i work in a high school teaching ITC....i DO know it, they are my colleagues.... we ALL have degrees......

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#18
Jan 21, 2013
 
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>Almost anyone could get a bachelors degree to be a primary teacher but very few primary teachers could even do a secondary school teacher's job.
you have it the wrong way round...... very few secondary school teachers have the skills to teach primary.... they only do 1 year training, where as a primary school teacher is trained for 3 years.

you can't work in the primary sector on a one year teaching qualification......
Anonymous

Ashfield, Australia

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#19
Jan 21, 2013
 
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
yes it does, along with practical...
<quoted text>
yes it does.
<quoted text>
so all primary school teachers have "soft degrees"....really? and are of a general low calibre?
lol...as if you'd know......
Yes I do know.

Most primary school teachers are limited females and even worse excuses for males. Most of them wouldn't even know what Calculus is or Alkenes are or what a legal Tort is. Most of them struggle with long division!

There is no way a Primary school teacher's degree could be anywhere near as difficult to obtain as a medical degree, Engineering degree, Science degree or a Law degree. It is frankly laughable that you could imagine it is.
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
you said.... "Well you're not going to be working with graduates in Science, Law, Commerce or Engineering if most of them are Maoris. And you know it."
and i proved you wrong....... i DO work with maori who have science degrees..... i work in a high school teaching ITC....i DO know it, they are my colleagues.... we ALL have degrees......
Yeah Science degrees only. And they're probably biology degrees, they were probably c-grade graduates and they're probably only 1/32nd Maori in ancestry anyway. And it's probably only a couple of those 16 supposedly Maori colleagues of yours.

Do you think someone like Isaak Luke could get a Science degree?
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
you have it the wrong way round...... very few secondary school teachers have the skills to teach primary.... they only do 1 year training, where as a primary school teacher is trained for 3 years.
you can't work in the primary sector on a one year teaching qualification......
What (obviously) I meant was that they could easily do those three years of study to be primary-qualified, whereas hardly any primary school teachers would have the brains to do a science degree.

Was this a desperate one from you or is your reading comprehension that bad?

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

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#20
Jan 21, 2013
 
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>
Most primary school teachers are limited females and even worse excuses for males.
lol..... most eh? hahahahaha as if you'd know.....
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no way a Primary school teacher's degree could be anywhere near as difficult to obtain as a medical degree, Engineering degree, Science degree or a Law degree.
a three year degree is a three year degree.... if i do a teaching degree at canterbury, it's exactly the same as a science degree...... 3 years full time study.
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah Science degrees only. And they're probably biology degrees, they were probably c-grade graduates and they're probably only 1/32nd Maori in ancestry anyway.
yeah there you go.....back to the maori this and that BS again....hahahahaha i told you... this is NOT about the bloody maoris......!!!
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text> And it's probably only a couple of those 16 supposedly Maori colleagues of yours.
another GUESS.... hahahaha keep guessing..!!!! and again with the maori thing? please....
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>What (obviously) I meant was that they could easily do those three years of study to be primary-qualified, whereas hardly any primary school teachers would have the brains to do a science degree.
pleaseeee....... people choose to teach, or become lawyers, or scientists, or mechanics, or doctors, or athletes, or any other profession......
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>
Was this a desperate one from you or is your reading comprehension that bad?
it's your line of thinking that is bad. it's your stereotyping and guessing that is bad.

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