Pre Maori NZ ( The real History )

Pre Maori NZ ( The real History )

Posted in the New Zealand Forum

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Tweeter

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#1 Nov 9, 2011

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#2 Nov 9, 2011
Tweeter, you blasphemer.

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#3 Nov 9, 2011
Tweeter wrote:
lol....really? hahaha... most of that is rubbish. its nothing but a meaningless collection of garbage numbers and guessing fools.

their theories are baseless allegations. they lack evidence, and the evidence they do have, has been proven over and over again to be nothing but rubbish...ie they fall down when examined under the micro scope.

i wouldn't be surprised if that guy is alltalk..... what a plonker....

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#4 Nov 9, 2011
Gutsfull wrote:
Tweeter, you blasphemer.
nah......

i liked close encounters of the 3rd kind....it was a cool movie

http://www.unmuseum.org/devtowergeo.htm

“Tino Rangatiratanga”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#5 Nov 9, 2011
Tweeter wrote:
Correction: it is pseudo-scientific history, and in this case presented by Martin Doutre who has no qualifications in archaeological theory or method, and whose links to the murky subculture of white supremacy should make one question the true motives behind his ‘discoveries’.

Legitimate scholars do not take him seriously. His method is basically to find a pile of rocks and conclude this is 'proof' of pre-Maori inhabitants. It's as if these people just sailed over to NZ to build these 'trig stations' and then suddenly vanished, leaving no evidence of their material culture in NZ or anywhere else en route to NZ.

Here is a short list of what evidence might actually look like:

http://www.nzarchaeology.org/cms/index.php...

Here is a link showing Martin Doutre's friendly relationship with
holocaust deniers.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Belsen/Doutre0...

“Educating Utus”

Since: Aug 10

Papakura, New Zealand

#6 Nov 9, 2011
As all pre-European human remains are handed over to the local utus with full consent from our govt, where upon they are quickly buried before any dna evidence can be extracted, we may never know. It's clear Maoris were not the first arrivals to these islands and killed and devoured the original inhabitants.

“Tino Rangatiratanga”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#7 Nov 9, 2011
Torqueing Heads wrote:
It's clear Maoris were not the first arrivals to these islands and killed and devoured the original inhabitants.
Even if that were true, how do you account for a lack of visible evidence of a material culture that was at least technologically advanced enough to reach NZ in the first place?

Where is the stuff of life e.g. tools, houses, weapons, religious artifacts etc?

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#8 Nov 9, 2011
It's called the Tui | Manu'a Samoan Empire
Tweeter

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#9 Nov 9, 2011
That Maori Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if that were true, how do you account for a lack of visible evidence of a material culture that was at least technologically advanced enough to reach NZ in the first place?
Where is the stuff of life e.g. tools, houses, weapons, religious artifacts etc?
Even the Chinese were here before you Maori.

Research into the various carbon datings of a number of mining sites, both disused and active in several locations on South Island reveal New Zealand’s enormous mineral wealth and one that the Chinese were keen to exploit. It also reveals how mining operations were active in New Zealand from 226 BC / 19 AD to around 1700-1725 AD. The date of the Maori invading South Island is debatable but interestingly a recent article in a New Zealand newspaper cited how the present-day Maori believe they first arrived on South Island in 1725. Mining in South Island was long established before then. The Chinese mined iron, green stone, silver – but mainly gold.
Iron is a mineral found plentifully in China. The Chinese would therefore not be too excited by the mining of iron in New Zealand. It would however have been mined in order to create mining implements for the gold, silver and green stone mines. It would also have been mined to make domestic cooking utensils. The mining of iron in New Zealand was also necessary in the making of new alloys of iron with minerals not found in China. The manufacture of steel from cast iron was first done in China in the Western Han Dynasty (206 BC – 9 AD) 2000 years before this was achieved in the west. More research needs to be done into the technical aspects of this historical mining colony.

http://www.gavinmenzies.net/Evidence/16-chine...
Tweeter

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#10 Nov 9, 2011
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
lol....really? hahaha... most of that is rubbish. its nothing but a meaningless collection of garbage numbers and guessing fools.
their theories are baseless allegations. they lack evidence, and the evidence they do have, has been proven over and over again to be nothing but rubbish...ie they fall down when examined under the micro scope.
i wouldn't be surprised if that guy is alltalk..... what a plonker....
What is the problem with a race of pre Maori people?

The older books tell of Maori folklore and history mentioning the white people who lived in the forest and in the mountains. So what is the issue of pre Maori people? Money. The Maori's are or have settled for money payments for losing their land. If it is proved that there were people in the land before them then is it still Maori's land and should they be paid? If all that has happened is the Europeans did what the Maoris did to the previous original peoples of New Zealand.

Whatever your views of the reasons for it and who/what/if compensation should be paid it seems strange to even think that New Zealand was uninhabited before the Maoris arrived. Most of the Earth has been settled. Australia, according to Mainstream dating and Aboriginal mythology has been settled for over 40,000 years. Even the Easter Islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean had an amazing race of peoples. Yet the islands of New Zealand remained undiscovered until 900 years ago?

One of the odd stories that seems to prove that New Zealand was known by the ancient peoples comes from Maori folklore. The Maoris went in search of the Greenstone. If no one had visited or inhabited New Zealand then how did people know that New Zealand greenstone existed and where to find it? If the place had never been visited why would you suddenly go to that one spot?

One of the most extraordinary things is that those people who investigate the possibility of a race of pre Maori people are accused of being racist. How can history be racist? So what if there were people in New Zealand before the Maoris? If its not about money then what is the problem?

If there were no first people before the Maoris arrived 900 years ago then there will be no evidence. The idea will soon die a natural death. The truth has nothing to fear. That is why you should always be suspicous when you are not allowed to question or investigate a particular subject, especially when its history, as how can researching history hurt anyone? The truth is the truth. Even if you ignore it, hide it or say it isn't.

http://www.everythingiselectric.com/new-zeala...
Tweeter

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#11 Nov 9, 2011
Ruins may show Incas beat Maoris to New Zealand?
Antonia Bowen-Jones

An article in The Daily Telegraph dated June 11 1998, of a story filed by Paul Chapman in Wellington tells of an ancient earthwork that has been discovered in a remote forest in New Zealand. It challenges the long-held belief that the Maoris, who were previously credited with arriving in canoes from Polynesia, were the first people to discover and inhabit those islands.

"An amateur researcher, Noel Hilliam, said yesterday he had discovered the site at Kaipara, in the far north of the country, and was certain it was not of Maori origin. The earthwork could have been built by a South American civilisation that arrived 1,000 years before the Maoris arrived, he said."

Mr Hilliam, aged 60, who lives near the site, at Dargaville, and has spent the last 40 years studying hundreds of Maori sites, told Chapman he is convinced that this site is completely different.

"He said the site was only a few hundred yards from where the remains of a mysterious ancient statue were found in 1991. The 10ft statue of a woman is carved in native Kauri timber but bears none of the distinctive signs of Maori artwork."

Mr Hilliam is the curator of Dargaville museum, to where the statue was taken, though he says he could not interest any professional researchers to investigate it further. This is a great pity, as amateur researchers play a valuable part in other disciplines such as astronomy. But as archæologists are notorious for hanging on to their ''paradigms'' until they are totally impossible to defend, we shouldn''t be surprised at this ignoring of yet another oopart (out of place artifacts). Maybe someone''s Phd on the Maoris was felt to be under threat? Who knows?
Tweeter

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#12 Nov 9, 2011
Pre Maori inhabitants of New Zealand from Peru?

The Waitaha nation goes back 2000 years. This wall is much older even than that" says Barry Brailsford, MBE,(author, the 'Tattooed Land','Greenstone Trails','Song of Waitaha','Song of the Stone')- commenting on the Kaimanawa Forest's ancient wall

Did 200 tribes of the Waitaha Nation settle in NZ 2,000 years ago, and were they decimated by the Maori 800 years ago, in an eerie foretaste of the Maori massacre of the Moriori in the Chathams? In the early 1990's Doug Sutton, Auckland University archaelogist, suggested that human beings were living in New Zealand millenia before Maori.

The image above shows blocks, some weighing tonnes, deep in the Kaimanawa Ranges. The four visible stones are a uniform 1.9 metres wide by 1.6 metres tall, and 1 metre wide. The faces are smooth, with no saw or adze marks, and the interfaces are knife-blade thin.

Further up the hill, the tops of other stones protrude (see the graphic below) and where the blocks would be buried creates a uniform structure, with a touchstone before the tiered structure.

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php...
Tweeter

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#13 Nov 9, 2011
Torqueing Heads wrote:
As all pre-European human remains are handed over to the local utus with full consent from our govt, where upon they are quickly buried before any dna evidence can be extracted, we may never know. It's clear Maoris were not the first arrivals to these islands and killed and devoured the original inhabitants.
Ain't that true.

The recent controversy over Noel Hilliam's activities in the northern Kaipara region has shown what Maori really think of the pseudo-historians. Hilliam's looting of prehistoric grave sites in the Kaipara region and his misrepresenation of an ancient Maori carving in Dargaville museum have been condemned by Te Uri o Hau, the tangata whenua of the northern Kaipara, as attacks on their history and culture. After complaints from Te Uri o Hau and also from outsiders like myself, Dargaville museum has distanced itself from Hilliam, and the New Zealand Historic Places Trust has opened an investigation into his visits to prehistoric grave sites.

http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2009/12/ju...

“Tino Rangatiratanga”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#14 Nov 9, 2011
Tweeter wrote:
<quoted text>
Even the Chinese were here before you Maori.
So you say. It's a shame you cannot actually prove it.

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#15 Nov 9, 2011
Torqueing Heads wrote:
As all pre-European human remains are handed over to the local utus with full consent from our govt, where upon they are quickly buried before any dna evidence can be extracted, we may never know. It's clear Maoris were not the first arrivals to these islands and killed and devoured the original inhabitants.
baseless allegations all talk.....

nothing but smoko room 52thhand gossip....

provide some evidence for us all to see....

“Tino Rangatiratanga”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#16 Nov 9, 2011
Tweeter wrote:
<quoted text>
Ain't that true.
The recent controversy over Noel Hilliam's activities in the northern Kaipara region has shown what Maori really think of the pseudo-historians. Hilliam's looting of prehistoric grave sites in the Kaipara region and his misrepresenation of an ancient Maori carving in Dargaville museum have been condemned by Te Uri o Hau, the tangata whenua of the northern Kaipara, as attacks on their history and culture. After complaints from Te Uri o Hau and also from outsiders like myself, Dargaville museum has distanced itself from Hilliam, and the New Zealand Historic Places Trust has opened an investigation into his visits to prehistoric grave sites.
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2009/12/ju...
HAHAHAHA... tweeter just posted a link to a blog that destroyed Hilliam's 'credibility'.

Nice one tweeter - keep up the good work! LMFAO!
Scott Hamilton

Auckland, New Zealand

#18 Nov 9, 2011
It's curious to see one of the pseudo-history brigade trying to prove some point by linking to a post I wrote about the notorious fantasist and grave-robber Noel 'I have a Nazi U boat filled with gold' Hilliam. Anyone who checks out the posts I've written about Hilliam and other pseudo-historians like Martin Doutre can see that, like everyone else possessed of a modicum of historical knowledge, I consider them to be either arrant or mischevious fools:
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2009/01/ps...

After asserting that there's an academic conspiracy to hide the real history of New Zealand, Tweeter goes on to claim that Doug Sutton believes NZ was settled by a pre-Maori people.

If Tweeter had done a quick google he'd know that Sutton is NZ's senior academic archaeologist, and that his influential 1980s paper on settlement dates for eastern Polynesian islands like those of New Zealand wasn't an advertisement for the bizarre theory that whites or Chinese were here before Maori, but rather an argument that the ancestors of Maori got here a few centuries earlier than previously thought.

Tweeter cites the 'Universal Peace Nation of Waitaha' cult as evidence that folks were knocking about in these islands thosuands of years ago. He doesn't mention that members of he Waitaha cult believe their ancestors lived in Egypt and in Outer Space before they got here, and claim to have various supernatural powers. There's a reason these people aren't taken seriously.

If anybody wants to consider Martin Doutre's beliefs about race and rationality then they should have a look at the debate which follows this article, which I wrote a couple of years ago:
http://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-to-naz...

Scroll through the comments thread under the article and you'll see Doutre denying the Holocaust, admitting to admiring the neo-Nazi pseudo-historian David Irving, and arguing that 9/11 was an 'inside job'. Doutre isn't the victim of a conspiracy - he's the victim of his own delusions.

Let's celebrate real historical research by trained scholars! Here's a fantastic new book about the solution of a real historical mystery. It will never be embraced by racists like Doutre, because it reveals, using rigorous inter-disciplinary research by scholars in Chile, NZ, and the US, that the Polynesians got to the Americas centuries before Columbus:
http://www.amazon.com/Polynesians-America-Pre...

“Tino Rangatiratanga”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#19 Nov 9, 2011
If it wasn't enough that Tweeter should post a link that uses fiendishly well researched and level headed reason to undermine his own pseudo-scientific cheerleading nonsense, here then, is a word from the man himself!

Nice of you to stop by Maps!

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#20 Nov 9, 2011
Tweeter wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the problem with a race of pre Maori people?
http://www.everythingiselectric.com/new-zeala...
the first problem is the evidence used to justify the existence of a pre maori race, is nothing more than a collection of mis information....

you webpages are a collection of personal blogs by unknown researchers with NO proof at all of anything other than they like to bark up the wrong tree day after day.....

they say on your quote, "...The puzzling and mysterious Kaimanawa Wall structure is found near Lake Taupo and easily reached by car.".....

when there is NOTHING remotely puzzling or mysterious....

they are nothing more than natural occurring rock formations as detailed here.... note this website carries MORE weight than an unknown bloggers personal fantasy posts. http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/ideas-of-maori-or...
tweeter

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#21 Nov 9, 2011
That Maori Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
HAHAHAHA... tweeter just posted a link to a blog that destroyed Hilliam's 'credibility'.
Nice one tweeter - keep up the good work! LMFAO!
No I just posted a link to a blog full od garbage written by some Maori who has no credibility at all.He is blind and refuses to open his eyes to other possibilities

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