Crown treaty negotiator was paid $1.5...

Crown treaty negotiator was paid $1.5 million

Posted in the New Zealand Forum

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“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#1 Feb 17, 2013
rich pakeha riding the gravy train.......hmmmm....

"The highest earner was Michael Dreaver, director of Auckland consultancy firm The Policy Shop, who earned $1.5m for working on more than 20 settlements in the Auckland and Hauraki regions. His partner is TVNZ presenter Miriama Kamo, who is also a director of the company."
http://maorinews.com/karere/2013/treaty-cases...

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#2 Feb 17, 2013
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
rich pakeha riding the gravy train.......hmmmm....
"The highest earner was Michael Dreaver, director of Auckland consultancy firm The Policy Shop, who earned $1.5m for working on more than 20 settlements in the Auckland and Hauraki regions. His partner is TVNZ presenter Miriama Kamo, who is also a director of the company."
http://maorinews.com/karere/2013/treaty-cases...
Doesn't matter whether he's white or brown...just further evidence that there is indeed a gravy train.

Hmmmm....YOU'LL be getting offside with That Maori Guy now, Adam.:)

“Educating Utus”

Since: Aug 10

Papakura, New Zealand

#3 Feb 17, 2013
Time to end the entire rort. NZ taxpayers are being fleeced by greedy lawyers and even greedier part Maoris with a feigned greivance.

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#4 Feb 18, 2013
Torqueing Heads wrote:
Time to end the entire rort. NZ taxpayers are being fleeced by greedy lawyers and even greedier part Maoris with a feigned greivance.
remember....blame the govt, not the maori TH

“Educating Utus”

Since: Aug 10

Papakura, New Zealand

#5 Feb 18, 2013
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
remember....blame the govt, not the maori TH
I blame both.
How can you accept the hard earned money and assets stolen from the people of NZ without our consent?
How will you ever again look us in the eye?

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#6 Feb 18, 2013
Torqueing Heads wrote:
<quoted text>I blame both.
How can you accept the hard earned money and assets stolen from the people of NZ...
it's a small percentage of what's owed to various iwi. peanuts in monetary terms,.... no one loses private land, replacement land comes from the queen.....out of her land bank....

if the the nz govt has been found guilty of illegal crimes, they have to pay the fine, just like every other organisation in the country...the fine is returned land, a cash fine and an apology.

the fine is tiny, the govt can well afford it......no problems..... after all, they cracked a lot of money off the stolen goods over the last 150 years or so....

if you believe assets have been stolen by the government, i suggest you contact the police or a lawyer. failing that, don't vote for the current government again, if you dont like any of the parties, make your own up.... see how many will vote for you.......then you can change the laws to whatever you want...... good luck.....

as far as i'm concerned the nz govt iwi A LOT more..... each iwi is owed their right to self government and tino rangatiratanga...... absolute sovereignty....... that's priceless......
Rangis Boyfriend

Christchurch, New Zealand

#7 Feb 18, 2013
Actually, the lawyer was just working. If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else. If you did a job, and someone asked you to do your job and they would pay you, would you say no? Of course not, it's your bloody job, it's what you do.

Rangi is missing the underlying issue here, if all those thieving part Maori's stopped laying stupid claims then there would be no need for our country to be poor and throw them the occasional bone and waste money on expensive court settlements involving lawyers.

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#8 Feb 18, 2013
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
it's a small percentage of what's owed to various iwi. peanuts in monetary terms,.... no one loses private land, replacement land comes from the queen.....out of her land bank....
if the the nz govt has been found guilty of illegal crimes, they have to pay the fine, just like every other organisation in the country...the fine is returned land, a cash fine and an apology.
the fine is tiny, the govt can well afford it......no problems..... after all, they cracked a lot of money off the stolen goods over the last 150 years or so....
if you believe assets have been stolen by the government, i suggest you contact the police or a lawyer. failing that, don't vote for the current government again, if you dont like any of the parties, make your own up.... see how many will vote for you.......then you can change the laws to whatever you want...... good luck.....
as far as i'm concerned the nz govt iwi A LOT more..... each iwi is owed their right to self government and tino rangatiratanga...... absolute sovereignty....... that's priceless......
But Adam, the problem is that it isn't actually "the government's" money. It's collected from us taxpayers, and I'd hazard to suggest that the majority of us taxpayers don't owe Maori anything along the lines of which you speak. What happens at some point in the future where WE conclude that we've had our money stolen off us? Do we go into yet another round of grievances, only the other way around? Two wrongs don't make a right, and if we carry on like this, it could go on back and forth ad infinitum. Not good for the nation. Not by my estimation anyway.

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#9 Feb 18, 2013
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
But Adam, the problem is that it isn't actually "the government's" money. It's collected from us taxpayers,
it's the governments money......
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd hazard to suggest that the majority of us taxpayers don't owe Maori anything along the lines of which you speak..
you can suggest it, but maori that had claims successfully go through the courts are owed money and land from the government. it's the law.
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
What happens at some point in the future where WE conclude that we've had our money stolen off us?


you will then need to make a claim for compensation from the nz govt. good luck with your claims....
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
Do we go into yet another round of grievances, only the other way around?.
like i said to TH, if you have grounds for court action against the crown, do what the maori have to do... take the government to court,....
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
and if we carry on like this, it could go on back and forth ad infinitum..
nah...very few non maori have had hundreds of thousands of hectares lost due to illegal confiscations and scorched earth policies....it's not going back and forth anywhere..... most cases, maori land is lost, never to be returned.

end of the day, if the govt has been found guilty of misconduct, they must pay compensation like every other organisation in the country...wether they are maori or not...it's the law....

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#10 Feb 18, 2013
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
it's the governments money......
<quoted text>
you can suggest it, but maori that had claims successfully go through the courts are owed money and land from the government. it's the law.
<quoted text>
you will then need to make a claim for compensation from the nz govt. good luck with your claims....
<quoted text>
like i said to TH, if you have grounds for court action against the crown, do what the maori have to do... take the government to court,....
<quoted text>
nah...very few non maori have had hundreds of thousands of hectares lost due to illegal confiscations and scorched earth policies....it's not going back and forth anywhere..... most cases, maori land is lost, never to be returned.
end of the day, if the govt has been found guilty of misconduct, they must pay compensation like every other organisation in the country...wether they are maori or not...it's the law....
Tell me where the government gets it's money Adam....

“Tino Rangatiratanga”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#11 Feb 18, 2013
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me where the government gets it's money Adam....
The answer you’re fishing for is “from the taxpayer” which is you and I.

But that’s just the beginning of the answer. It’s like asking “where does a glass of milk come from?” Initially from a milk carton in the fridge, but where did that come from? It came from a retailer. Where did the retailer get it from? It came from distributor and so on until you get the dairy farmer.

Similarly, the government gets its money from taxes which come from wages, salaries and interest, which were generated in the wider economy, the basis of which is still based on a primary agricultural sector which was created out of a drive for land from settlers who in the main were supplied by land speculators who got it from the Crown.

The Crown made money by selling the land to the speculators who made money selling it to settlers who turned the land into an asset with help from Crown business grants; the land based economy provided a basis for supporting industries which provided the basis for towns which became cities and so on.

The problem with this supply chain is that everyone in it has benefited from the wealth produced from the land asset except Maori. The land represents a benefit for Pakeha and their descendents as a group of producers, but an opportunity cost for Maori as a group of producers

And since the land is still an asset, still valuable and remains stolen, then it is still an opportunity cost to Maori, and as such they are a tax upon Maori and have been for generations. There are no innocent parties here. If Pakeha today consider they bear no responsibility for the Crown’s actions, then it stands to reason they should not continue to reap the rewards.

The settlements are a mere fraction of value paid for the subsidy that Pakeha receive as a group for the land they now possess.

I’m sorry – but I just don’t care about your taxes.

“Tino Rangatiratanga”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#12 Feb 18, 2013
Correction:

And since the land is still an asset, is still valuable and remains stolen, then it is still an opportunity cost to Maori, and therefore a form of intergenerational tax levied upon Maori. There are no innocent parties here. If Pakeha today consider they bear no responsibility for the Crown’s actions, then it stands to reason they should not continue to reap the rewards.

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#13 Feb 18, 2013
That Maori Guy wrote:
There are no innocent parties here.
Says you.
That Maori Guy wrote:
If Pakeha today consider they bear no responsibility for the Crown’s actions, then it stands to reason they should not continue to reap the rewards.
Exactly which rewards would you be referring to?

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#14 Feb 18, 2013
That Maori Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
The answer you’re fishing for is “from the taxpayer” which is you and I.
But that’s just the beginning of the answer. It’s like asking “where does a glass of milk come from?” Initially from a milk carton in the fridge, but where did that come from? It came from a retailer. Where did the retailer get it from? It came from distributor and so on until you get the dairy farmer.
Similarly, the government gets its money from taxes which come from wages, salaries and interest, which were generated in the wider economy, the basis of which is still based on a primary agricultural sector which was created out of a drive for land from settlers who in the main were supplied by land speculators who got it from the Crown.
The Crown made money by selling the land to the speculators who made money selling it to settlers who turned the land into an asset with help from Crown business grants; the land based economy provided a basis for supporting industries which provided the basis for towns which became cities and so on.
The problem with this supply chain is that everyone in it has benefited from the wealth produced from the land asset except Maori. The land represents a benefit for Pakeha and their descendents as a group of producers, but an opportunity cost for Maori as a group of producers
And since the land is still an asset, still valuable and remains stolen, then it is still an opportunity cost to Maori, and as such they are a tax upon Maori and have been for generations. There are no innocent parties here. If Pakeha today consider they bear no responsibility for the Crown’s actions, then it stands to reason they should not continue to reap the rewards.
The settlements are a mere fraction of value paid for the subsidy that Pakeha receive as a group for the land they now possess.
I’m sorry – but I just don’t care about your taxes.
What a complete load of self-serving bullshit, Maori Guy.
That Maori Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
I’m sorry – but I just don’t care about your taxes.
Of course not. Because either you already are, or are expecting to be, on the receiving end in this flawed process of settlement. Like a vulture, scavenging whatever you can off the back of my hard work.

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#15 Feb 18, 2013
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me where the government gets it's money Adam....
the money comes from the rent collected off the stolen lands in question....well, not the entire amount, only a tiny percentage, in ngaitahu's case about 1% of what they were owed.....

the nz pubic have been allowed to keep and spend the rest of the monies collected from stolen property....

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#16 Feb 18, 2013
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>

the nz pubic have been allowed to keep and spend the rest of the monies collected from stolen property....
So what you're telling me is that Maori aren't part of the NZ public?

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#17 Feb 18, 2013
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
So what you're telling me is that Maori aren't part of the NZ public?
yes...they are a group of the new zealand public who had land illegally taken off them by the govt....

“Moumou Tangata ki te Po”

Since: Oct 11

Earth

#18 Feb 18, 2013
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
So what you're telling me is that Maori aren't part of the NZ public?
maori are also the tino rangatira of their home land...... we have dual citizenship.

“Educating Utus”

Since: Aug 10

Papakura, New Zealand

#19 Feb 18, 2013
Adam Rangiaho wrote:
<quoted text>
it's a small percentage of what's owed to various iwi. peanuts in monetary terms,.... no one loses private land, replacement land comes from the queen.....out of her land bank....
Oh I see, it's the 'Queen's land bank', of course.

“Educating Utus”

Since: Aug 10

Papakura, New Zealand

#20 Feb 18, 2013
There is silent partner in this ridiculous Treaty grievance industry, ironically the partner charged with funding it.
This partner need's to wake up and look at what is happening to our money and assets.
Why we are standing around like possums in the headlights I don't understand. We should be channelling our anger and organising ourselves before it is too late.

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