Just how primitive and uncivilised we...

Just how primitive and uncivilised were pre-colonised Maori?

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Must_be_joking_m e

Leichhardt, Australia

#1 Oct 4, 2012
Let's discuss another aspect of just how much Maoris suck by looking at exactly what they were before the British came along.

They had some primitive forms of wood carving and stone polishing. But they had absolutely no development of even basic stone-cutting and/or masonry. Nor did they have any sort of metal-sorting let alone mining.

So okay they had fire. But did they manage to put it to any usage beyond cooking and slash-and-burn agriculture?
They didn't develop any sort of pottery to assist with their agriculture nor any other type of baked ceramics. They had some primitive woven flax baskets, a rather poor substitute. And without any mining there was no metal-working or any sorts. So thus their tools were merely made out of stones and bones, and severely limited their abilities to work wood and build structures nor help with their agriculture.
And of course no primitive forms of chemistry.

As already mentioned their weaving was very crude and out of flax. So okay they have the excuse of not having wool nor cotton nor other fine fibres to work with, but even then their weaving was crude.

Most of their protein sources were from primitive fishing techniques (using easily-rotting flax nets and brittle polished-bone hooks) and shellfish. They had absolutely no animal husbandry and only relied upon hunting wild pigs, indigenous Moa's (which they hunted to extinction) and other birds for any other source of protein. And their hunting techniques were also primitive, they never at any stage developed a blowdart let alone any bows and arrows despite an abundance of suitable materials.

It goes without saying they lacked even any primitive form of mathematics let alone any Cuneiform script nor hieroglyphs.

Would there be many races in this world more useless than the Maoris?
Yummy

New Zealand

#2 Oct 4, 2012
Interesting, now look where us Maori are now and how we've adapted..

Whos the minister of Education again? Hekia Parata.
Governor General of nz? Sir Jerry Mateparae.
Captain of NZ League team? Benji Marshal.
Whos the coach of the NZ League team? Stephen Kearney.
Who directed and starred in NZs highest grossed film of all time? Taikaka Waititi.
Whos fighting for the cruiserweight title? Shane Cameron.

The list doesnt stop there either it goes on and on :D

“Tino Rangatiratanga”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#3 Oct 4, 2012
As a matter of fact, metallurgy, masonry, pottery, animal husbandry, paper and writing were all introduced to Europe from elsewhere, not to mention the wheel, the compass and agriculture.

Where are the ‘great inventions’ to come out of Australia or NZ for that matter that had the same impact as, say, metallurgy did?

More importantly, what contributions have you made?

Zero?

For your information, bow and arrow was a known to Maori but was abandoned soon after arrival to NZ. If you think about it for a second, why would Maori have animal husbandry when no beast of burden suitable for domestication existed? The properties of stone were known to Maori, who in fact, did have basic stone cutting techniques. NZ greenstone is particularly hard, and different types of greenstone were employed to cut other stone depending on hardness. You can’t cut greenstone without some understanding of the properties of stone.

On the flipside, Maori society had no poverty (i.e. in the modern sense), no jails, no diseases and no homeless. The ratio of hours expended for survival was better than the countless hours of toil suffered by men, women and children working in dangerous conditions in exchange for little pay. Maori women were not dominated by patriarchy and already had what amounted to suffrage by European standards of the day. Captain Cook recorded that Maori were fitter, healthier and better fed than many of his fellow countrymen.

This mindless thread is just another one of your pissing contests.

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#4 Oct 4, 2012
That Maori Guy wrote:
As a matter of fact, metallurgy, masonry, pottery, animal husbandry, paper and writing were all introduced to Europe from elsewhere, not to mention the wheel, the compass and agriculture.
Where are the ‘great inventions’ to come out of Australia or NZ for that matter that had the same impact as, say, metallurgy did?
More importantly, what contributions have you made?
Zero?
For your information, bow and arrow was a known to Maori but was abandoned soon after arrival to NZ. If you think about it for a second, why would Maori have animal husbandry when no beast of burden suitable for domestication existed? The properties of stone were known to Maori, who in fact, did have basic stone cutting techniques. NZ greenstone is particularly hard, and different types of greenstone were employed to cut other stone depending on hardness. You can’t cut greenstone without some understanding of the properties of stone.
On the flipside, Maori society had no poverty (i.e. in the modern sense), no jails, no diseases and no homeless. The ratio of hours expended for survival was better than the countless hours of toil suffered by men, women and children working in dangerous conditions in exchange for little pay. Maori women were not dominated by patriarchy and already had what amounted to suffrage by European standards of the day. Captain Cook recorded that Maori were fitter, healthier and better fed than many of his fellow countrymen.
This mindless thread is just another one of your pissing contests.
Yeah, yeah, we know....Maori were all sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya. Further attempts at re-writing history, eh Maori Guy? Good on you mate - someone, somewhere is going to buy into this bs I guess.

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#5 Oct 4, 2012
Yummy wrote:
Interesting, now look where us Maori are now and how we've adapted..
Whos the minister of Education again? Hekia Parata.
Governor General of nz? Sir Jerry Mateparae.
Captain of NZ League team? Benji Marshal.
Whos the coach of the NZ League team? Stephen Kearney.
Who directed and starred in NZs highest grossed film of all time? Taikaka Waititi.
Whos fighting for the cruiserweight title? Shane Cameron.
The list doesnt stop there either it goes on and on :D
Please spare us your drivel. There's plenty of indicators that show Maori haven't adapted well at all.
beatlesinthebog

New Zealand

#6 Oct 4, 2012
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
Please spare us your drivel. There's plenty of indicators that show Maori haven't adapted well at all.
HEY!...I like Jerry. AND...where the hell is Winston's name on this list of sucesses?

“Tino Rangatiratanga”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#8 Oct 4, 2012
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, yeah, we know....Maori were all sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya. Further attempts at re-writing history, eh Maori Guy? Good on you mate - someone, somewhere is going to buy into this bs I guess.
What would you know? You don't read, remember?
Must_be_joking_m e

Roseville, Australia

#9 Oct 4, 2012
Yummy wrote:
Captain of NZ League team? Benji Marshal.
Whos the coach of the NZ League team? Stephen Kearney.
Bahahahaha it will never stop making me laugh how you keep giving ridiculous amounts of kudos to something a piddly and rink-a-dink as Rugby League. It is a NOTHING sport, only a major sport in two states of Australia (which I will happily admit is not an important country) and North-western England. It is a minority sport in NZ, so no surprises if the entire XIII and coach are from that minority (Maoris) and if anything the fact that they've had honkies coaching them for so long is something further reinforcing Maori uselessness.

Now why don't you mention other indications of how "maori have adapted"? such as the highest imprisonment rate, highest recorded abuse rates, low educational attainment rates, poor personal debt rates?

Most worthless folk on earth.

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#10 Oct 4, 2012
That Maori Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
What would you know? You don't read, remember?
How many times do I have to say this, fool? I read plenty...just because I don't buy into some of the propaganda you promote doesn't mean otherwise.
Yummy

New Zealand

#11 Oct 4, 2012
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>honkies.
what nationality are you again?
TMG

Union City, NJ

#12 Oct 4, 2012
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
How many times do I have to say this, fool? I read plenty...just because I don't buy into some of the propaganda you promote doesn't mean otherwise.
Maybe you do read but I've never seen you cite a date, event, person or place, or a paper, book or any other publication that would lead me to believe you have even a passing familiarity with our colonial history. I don't claim to be a expert, and I have no problem saying I'm not, but if I only ever read one book it would probably be one more than you.

Kumbaiya doesn't exactly further your claim that you do.
PCiM

Australia

#13 Oct 4, 2012
Gutsfull wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, yeah, we know....Maori were all sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya. Further attempts at re-writing history, eh Maori Guy? Good on you mate - someone, somewhere is going to buy into this bs I guess.
Interesting, isn't it? That Mario Pig instantly launches into an attack on Whites, despite the original poster not qualifying himself as White. It never fails to boggle the mind that somebody like Mario Pig can call himself an anti-racist with a straight face.

He is hilarious though. I am not even finished laughing about his pre-European Mario utopia. We can see the lie of that by looking to his 'wahnow' in Samoa or Tonga. That is how the Marios would be doing without us to hold their hands and pay their tabs.
PCiM

Australia

#14 Oct 4, 2012
TMG wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you do read but I've never seen you cite a date, event, person or place, or a paper, book or any other publication that would lead me to believe you have even a passing familiarity with our colonial history. I don't claim to be a expert, and I have no problem saying I'm not, but if I only ever read one book it would probably be one more than you.
Kumbaiya doesn't exactly further your claim that you do.
You mean like that fairytale about the Mario postal service? That one good one, cuz.

On another note, seeing as you are stateside, how's your homeboy Obama doing?

Since: Nov 08

Auckland

#15 Oct 4, 2012
TMG wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you do read but I've never seen you cite a date, event, person or place, or a paper, book or any other publication that would lead me to believe you have even a passing familiarity with our colonial history. I don't claim to be a expert, and I have no problem saying I'm not, but if I only ever read one book it would probably be one more than you.
Kumbaiya doesn't exactly further your claim that you do.
Believe what you want Maori Guy. Much in the same way as I believe that you never employ the concept of fairness (or even a modicum of common sense for that matter) in consideration of how we can all move forward together from where we're at.
Must_be_joking_m e

Roseville, Australia

#16 Oct 4, 2012
That Maori Guy wrote:
As a matter of fact, metallurgy, masonry, pottery, animal husbandry, paper and writing were all introduced to Europe from elsewhere, not to mention the wheel, the compass and agriculture.
How typical of a "maori guy" to completely miss my point and see this as something equivalent of some willy-measuring (and we all know what might be behind that ;)).
My point is that the living standards (which are directly related to civilising) of Maori were obviously greatly elevated by British Colonisation. Nobody would deny that Europe's civilising was advanced by contact with the near and middle-east.
Although one big contrast you might want to note is that people of European background treat those ancient civilisations such as Sumer, Egypt, the Hittites, etc with AWE and REVERENCE. They also treat civilisations they didnt learn from such as China and Mexico with at the very least the utmost respect if not also awe. In contrast Maoris treat anything British/European with contempt and a contrived jealous disrespect. The only thing Maoris seem to show reverence towards is American culture, with a deliberate ignoring of the European civilisation from which it was built upon.
That Maori Guy wrote:
Where are the ‘great inventions’ to come out of Australia or NZ for that matter that had the same impact as, say, metallurgy did?[/quote]Well off the top of my head;
Mass producing penecillin was acheived by a team of Australian Pharmacologists, which won them a Nobel prize. The benefit to the human race from this discovery has been enormous.
Plastic surgery and the skin-graft technique was pioneered and perfected by an NZ army surgeon during the first world war. Although this advancement in medecine is famously abused it has saved the livlihoods of countless war wounded and accident victims.
Lord Rutherford, a New Zealander, first split the atom and did much of the groundbreaking research into nuclear physics and modern Chemistry which has made much of your currnet lifestyle possible including using your computer.
Is that enough for you?[QUOTE who="That Maori Guy"]More importantly, what contributions have you made?
Zero?
That's really only the sort of thing you should come out with if you yourself have done some groundbreaking sicentific research or inventing.
That Maori Guy wrote:
For your information, bow and arrow was a known to Maori but was abandoned soon after arrival to NZ.
So you're saying Maoris became LESS civilised and more backward after settling in NZ?
I don't know whether to believe you, becuaee it seems like a strange thing to abandon. It's like abandoning a sharp knife.
That Maori Guy wrote:
If you think about it for a second, why would Maori have animal husbandry when no beast of burden suitable for domestication existed?
Well there was this endemic bird called the Moa which Maori in typical Polynesian style merely hunted to extinction without realising any herd management strategies.
Whitey had to show the Maori how to farm and you know it.
That Maori Guy wrote:
The properties of stone were known to Maori, who in fact, did have basic stone cutting techniques. NZ greenstone is particularly hard, and different types of greenstone were employed to cut other stone depending on hardness. You can’t cut greenstone without some understanding of the properties of stone.
Yeah as I said SOME BASIC STONE POLISHING.
Not quite at the big jump to quarries and big masonry buildings.
Must_be_joking_m e

Roseville, Australia

#17 Oct 4, 2012
That Maori Guy wrote:
On the flipside, Maori society had no poverty (i.e. in the modern sense), no jails, no diseases and no homeless. The ratio of hours expended for survival was better than the countless hours of toil suffered by men, women and children working in dangerous conditions in exchange for little pay. Maori women were not dominated by patriarchy and already had what amounted to suffrage by European standards of the day. Captain Cook recorded that Maori were fitter, healthier and better fed than many of his fellow countrymen.
Buahahahaha if you honestly think that then you're even stupider than I've realised.

Maoris were FAR poorer before the British came along, they simply may not have appreciated it before the British came because EVERY Maori was poor and it was all they knew. The lives they lived would've been so bleak and poor and terrible and it sounds like you can barely comprehend it. They widely commited slavery and genocide and cannibalism on each other over a few measly morsels of food and suffered a dreadful mortality rate.

Your belief that Maori womanhood enjoyed some equal status free of patriarchy is so absurd it's barely even worth replying to. Anyone can see that mysogyny is deep-rooted in Maori culture and the British have always been among the better treaters of women.
Must_be_joking_m e

Roseville, Australia

#18 Oct 4, 2012
That poohskin Guy wrote:
Where are the ‘great inventions’ to come out of Australia or NZ for that matter that had the same impact as, say, metallurgy did?
Well off the top of my head;
Mass producing penecillin was acheived by a team of Australian Pharmacologists, which won them a Nobel prize. The benefit to the human race from this discovery has been enormous.
Plastic surgery and the skin-graft technique was pioneered and perfected by an NZ army surgeon during the first world war. Although this advancement in medecine is famously abused it has saved the livlihoods of countless war wounded and accident victims.
Lord Rutherford, a New Zealander, first split the atom and did much of the groundbreaking research into nuclear physics and modern Chemistry which has made much of your currnet lifestyle possible including using your computer.
Is that enough for you?

Since: Jan 11

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#19 Oct 4, 2012
That Maori Guy wrote:
, why would Maori have animal husbandry when no beast of burden suitable for domestication existed?
But there was a beast of burden available. Ever heard of a pig farm? They knew how pigs reproduced right? Surely someone would have thought - hey lets capture some and let them reproduce? Surely someone thought - hey the Moa will be gone soon?

Of course you and I are both pretty sure that some Maori did think exactly that right? But it would have taken a coordinated effort to implement. Something that Maori were no good at then, and are still no good at today.

I still dont buy your theory that Maori were doing significant trade with Australia in the early to mid 1800's.

Since: Jan 11

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#20 Oct 4, 2012
That Maori Guy wrote:
Maori women were not dominated by patriarchy and already had what amounted to suffrage by European standards of the day.
I thought maori women were not even allowed to give speeches on the marae?

Since: Jan 11

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#21 Oct 4, 2012
Must_be_joking_me wrote:
<quoted text>Well off the top of my head;
Mass producing penecillin was acheived by a team of Australian Pharmacologists, which won them a Nobel prize. The benefit to the human race from this discovery has been enormous.
Plastic surgery and the skin-graft technique was pioneered and perfected by an NZ army surgeon during the first world war. Although this advancement in medecine is famously abused it has saved the livlihoods of countless war wounded and accident victims.
Lord Rutherford, a New Zealander, first split the atom and did much of the groundbreaking research into nuclear physics and modern Chemistry which has made much of your currnet lifestyle possible including using your computer.
Is that enough for you?
top job. I have personally benefited from plastic sugery and penicillin lol. And of course I am on my computer right now. NOw just gimme some time and I will think how mowrees have benifited me. Ummmmmmmmm. Ummmmmmmmmm. etc etc....

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