FYROM: A Trouble To All Of Its Neighbors

FYROM: A Trouble To All Of Its Neighbors

Posted in the Macedonia Forum

Skop Detector

Australia

#1 Sep 25, 2011
The United States under President Truman, together with the Greek people, succeeded in the 1940s in keeping our ancestral homeland out of the clutches of communism, while all countries surrounding Greece surrendered to communist regimes one after the other. Greece and the United States fought together and defeated communism at that time and many communist partisans (some ethnologically Greek and others ethnologically Slavic) found refuge in various Iron Curtain countries after the end of the civil war. With the support of their Slavic brethren across the border of southern Yugoslavia, these people raged a murderous campaign, destroying whole villages and murdering thousands of people in their effort to break Greece apart and attach its Macedonian province to the former Yugoslavia.

More than one hundred thousand people were killed; the destruction caused was immense; while during their retreat, to avoid just punishment, communist partisans fled abducting thousands of Greek children with the intention of using them later against their parents and country. These Greek children were placed in communist re-education camps and were taught that they were saved from the Greek national army; they were taught hatred against their own parents.

Greece let these ghosts of the past rest for sixty years now, in an effort to promote peaceful relations with the former Yugoslavia. Were this issue to be reopened by the political leadership of FYROM, Greece would have every right to ask for enormous compensation from its neighboring country, as it was particularly on the territory of today’s FYROM, where communist partisans received support for the destruction they caused. This will open a Pandora’s box creating hostility and reviving terrible memories between the people of Greece and FYROM that will make it impossible for the people of Greece to accept FYROM as an ally in NATO and the European Union for generations to come. Moreover, reopening these cases will remind Greeks that other previously communist neighbors now in NATO – Albania, Bulgaria, and Romania – also helped the partisans in their destructive campaign in Macedonia, Greece. Any such process will serve as a legal precedent for millions of people around the world to revisit forgotten conflicts of the past.
FYROM is a small landlocked country in the southern Balkans with serious external and domestic problems. It is the only country in Europe that fuels serious and entirely distinct conflicts in relation to each of its four neighbors, with no effort for immediate resolution.

To the north with Serbia, a Partnership for Peace country that aspires to NATO membership, FYROM maintains a conflict involving their illegal and schismatic church, the so-called “Macedonian Orthodox Church,” which generates problems not only with Serbia, but others as well.

To the east, NATO member Bulgaria does not recognize the so-called “Macedonians” as a distinct nation, nor a “Macedonian” language, and accuses FYROM of usurping its history. FYROM currently seems to raise linguistic or ethnologic claims to approximately 20% of the territory of this NATO ally. The FYROM leadership projects its agenda through OMO Ilinden Pirin, an organization that aspires to political status in Bulgaria, where it is regarded as a foreign government-funded separatist organization. It is noteworthy that nearly one hundred thousand Bulgarian passports have been issued to FYROM citizens, including one to former FYROM Prime Minister Ljubco Georgievski.

To the west, citizens of Albania clearly and rightfully consider that over 25% of the population of FYROM who are ethnic Albanians cannot be called “Macedonians.”
Skop Detector

Australia

#2 Sep 25, 2011
cont.

The United States wrongly assumed that recognition of FYROM as “Macedonia” would appease its Slavic inhabitants and make them implement the Ohrid agreement. On the contrary, this has whetted their appetite and the political party VMRO, which supported the referendum against the rights of Albanians, won the elections by an overwhelming majority a year and a half later.
It seems more important to FYROM’s Slavic citizens to support the political party which opposes the rights of Albanians than support the Slavic political party associated with recognition of their country as Republic of “Macedonia” by the United States. These developments clearly contradict assumptions among U.S. policymakers, though they do not surprise those of us familiar with the region and its people.

There are increasingly more divisions between ethnic Albanians and FYROM’s Slavic majority. The two communities do not talk to each other, do not learn each other’s language, do not allow their children to play together, learn history differently, and end up intensely resenting each other. Yet, there are those in NATO who believe there can be a united “Macedonian” army. Moreover, Greek soldiers and officers cannot be expected to work alongside any “Macedonian” counterparts in NATO.

According to the most recent census, only 62.5% of the population of FYROM consider themselves “Macedonians.” Who gives them the right to impede the Euro-Atlantic integration of the remaining 38%(i.e. minority) of the country’s population for a name dispute which does not even concern them, as there might be quite a few among the 62.5% who would look forward to a resolution, regardless of how they identify themselves? However, we also note with interest that during the aforementioned census it was not allowed that anyone identifies himself/herself as Hellene. Really how big is the Hellenic minority in the FYROM?

As it appears the current leadership of the State Department believes that there is such a thing as a “Macedonian” nation, which, according to the Stettinius State Department, did not exist in 1944. How can the recent inhabitants of The FYROM be considered as “Macedonians” being born by parents that were not Macedonians?

As for the Greek-American community, loyal to the multiple resolutions passed on this issue, we wish to inform you that we cannot accept the words “Macedonia”-“Macedonian” as part of the final name of the FYROM.
Skop Detector

Australia

#3 Sep 25, 2011
In 1945, Truman’s Secretary of State, Edward Stettinius -“The (State) Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia… with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. This Government considers talk of a Macedonian “nation,” Macedonian “Fatherland,” or Macedonian national “consciousness” to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival [not the destruction of Meaning but] a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece.” Then again, that was when the United States and its only Balkan ally, Greece, were fighting an expansive Communist empire…

The “real” Macedonians were ancient Dorian Greeks who entered the area of Macedonia about 1100 B.C., long before the Slavs appeared in that part of the world later in the sixth century, A.D.. The name Macedonia came from the Dorian Greeks, who were called “Macedni”[= tall]. The language they spoke in ancient times was a Greek dialect. The Greek archaeologist Manolis Andronikos became convinced that a hill in present day Greek Macedonia concealed the tombs of the Macedonian Kings. In 1977, Andronikos undertook a six-week dig at the and found four buried chambers which he identified as hitherto undisturbed tombs. Andronikos claimed that these were the burial sites of the kings of Macedon, including the tomb of Phillip II, father of Alexander the Great. Last summer my family and I traveled to Vergina, the small town in northern Greece where the tombs are located. For a short time we were able to look into the past through the time capsule made Andronikos discovered. Even the most uninformed layman cannot help but emerge from such a display without understanding the undeniable nature of Phillip or Alexander‘s Greek identity.

During World War II, Yugoslavia’s Marshal Tito established Western Macedonia as one of Yugoslavia’s six republics. He changed the name of his country’s southern province in 1944 from Vardar Banovina to the Socialist Republic of Macedonia. After appropriating the name “Macedonia” he also created a mythic language (Slavic in origin) called “Macedonian.” The objective was territorial expansionism. Tito rewrote history by using propaganda to distort the integrity and heritage of the region. His underlying goal was the expansion of Yugoslavia toward the Aegean Sea.

For Greeks this came in the midst of a civil war which threatened to drag the country into the Communist orbit. During the pre-war period the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) adopted the policy of the Comintern favoring a united Macedonia and Thrace in a future Balkan Socialist Federation. By 1949, about 40% on the Democratic Army of Greece (DAG), the military arm of the KKE was composed of Slavophones…

Greeks believed that when Yugoslavia dissolved and FYROM declared its independence in 1991, its leaders would make a clean break with the past. Not only did they fail to do that, but for 20 years now, the authorities in that country have continued to try to undermine Greek sovereignty over Greek Macedonia, which they portray as “occupied” territory that will one day be “liberated.” While Skopjian leaders declare that they have no designs on Greek territory, they refuse to remove such claims from textbooks, speeches, articles, maps and national documents. In fact, by insisting on the name Tito gave the area, they perpetuate the goal he pursued. To make matters worse, they seek to rewrite Greek history and portray Greek symbols as their own in a perverted attempt to develop some reasonable facsimile of a “Macedonian” consciousness for a country that never existed except in the minds of those who cannot decide who or what they are.
Skop Detector

Australia

#4 Sep 25, 2011
In 1945, Truman’s Secretary of State, Edward Stettinius -“The (State) Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia… with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. This Government considers talk of a Macedonian “nation,” Macedonian “Fatherland,” or Macedonian national “consciousness” to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece.” Then again, that was when the United States and its only Balkan ally, Greece, were fighting an expansive Communist empire…

The “real” Macedonians were ancient Dorian Greeks who entered the area of Macedonia about 1100 B.C., long before the Slavs appeared in that part of the world later in the sixth century, A.D.. The name Macedonia came from the Dorian Greeks, who were called “Macedni”[= tall]. The language they spoke in ancient times was a Greek dialect. The Greek archaeologist Manolis Andronikos became convinced that a hill in present day Greek Macedonia concealed the tombs of the Macedonian Kings. In 1977, Andronikos undertook a six-week dig at the and found four buried chambers which he identified as hitherto undisturbed tombs. Andronikos claimed that these were the burial sites of the kings of Macedon, including the tomb of Phillip II, father of Alexander the Great. Last summer my family and I traveled to Vergina, the small town in northern Greece where the tombs are located. For a short time we were able to look into the past through the time capsule made Andronikos discovered. Even the most uninformed layman cannot help but emerge from such a display without understanding the undeniable nature of Phillip or Alexander‘s Greek identity…

During World War II, Yugoslavia’s Marshal Tito established Western Macedonia as one of Yugoslavia’s six republics. He changed the name of his country’s southern province in 1944 from Vardar Banovina to the Socialist Republic of Macedonia. After appropriating the name “Macedonia” he also created a mythic language (Slavic in origin) called “Macedonian.” The objective was territorial expansionism. Tito rewrote history by using propaganda to distort the integrity and heritage of the region. His underlying goal was the expansion of Yugoslavia toward the Aegean Sea.

For Greeks this came in the midst of a civil war which threatened to drag the country into the Communist orbit. During the pre-war period the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) adopted the policy of the Comintern favoring a united Macedonia and Thrace in a future Balkan Socialist Federation. By 1949, about 40% on the Democratic Army of Greece (DAG), the military arm of the KKE was composed of Slavophones…

Greeks believed that when Yugoslavia dissolved and FYROM declared its independence in 1991, its leaders would make a clean break with the past. Not only did they fail to do that, but for 17 years now, the authorities in that country have continued to try to undermine Greek sovereignty over Greek Macedonia, which they portray as “occupied” territory that will one day be “liberated.” While Skopjian leaders declare that they have no designs on Greek territory, they refuse to remove such claims from textbooks, speeches, articles, maps and national documents. In fact, by insisting on the name Tito gave the area, they perpetuate the goal he pursued. To make matters worse, they seek to rewrite Greek history and portray Greek symbols as their own in a perverted attempt to develop some reasonable facsimile of a “Macedonian” consciousness for a country that never existed except in the minds of those who cannot decide who or what they are.

“"MAKEDONKA"”

Since: Jul 08

Bitola

#13 Sep 25, 2011
**Just one reason why Greece neighbors are coming together because all minority in Greece are discriminated against.**

Greek soldiers chant anti-Turkish-Albanian slogans at military parade
Greek special forces chanted harsh anti-Turkish-Albanian slogans during an official military parade in Athens, reports said.

World Bulletin / News Desk

Greek special forces chanted harsh anti-Turkish-Albanian slogans during an official military parade in Athens, reports said.

According to reports, racist and Nazi slogans were chanted against Macedonians, Turks and Albanians at the military parade of the Greek Armed Forces held in Athens on Independence Day.

While the soldiers were marching they chanted: "They are Skopians, they are Albanians, we will make new clothes out of their skins", Greek daily newspaper Eleftherotypia reports. "We will slaughter them until they worship the cross", was one of the slogans.

In a commentary the daily stresses that such slogans were not shouted by members of "Golden Dawn", but rather members of the army's special diving forces.

"Why all the hate?", the Greek newspaper asks and expressed astonishment of the Greek army violating the law of discrimination. "Are we living in 2010 with a socialist government? or in the past of military dictatorship?" Eleftherotypia asked.

However, Greek media said, The Civil Protection Ministry suspended the coast guard officer in charge of the parade unit and pledged tough action against unidentified members accused of shouting racist slogans against Albanians during the Independence Day parade. The ministry "strongly condemned the incident".

Meanwhile, Albanians organized a demonstration of protest in front of the Greek embassy.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/...

“"MAKEDONKA"”

Since: Jul 08

Bitola

#14 Sep 25, 2011
Racist attacks
The Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA) yesterday issued a statement alleging that groups linked to the extreme right-wing Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) have been attacking immigrants in the Aghios Panteleimonas district of central Athens over the past week. According to SYRIZA, the groups have been patrolling the area at night and have attacked immigrants with sticks and iron bars.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles...
MAKEDONIA IS GREEK

Ródos, Greece

#17 Sep 25, 2011
Rosetta stone wrote:
Racist attacks
The Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA) yesterday issued a statement alleging that groups linked to the extreme right-wing Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) have been attacking immigrants in the Aghios Panteleimonas district of central Athens over the past week. According to SYRIZA, the groups have been patrolling the area at night and have attacked immigrants with sticks and iron bars.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles...
Any clue Psoletta how the whole issue started? Any idea how long it lasted-->2 days? Any clue about Fyrom's crimes and how long they last-->for ever?

GREEK EVENT
On Tuesday 10 May after Manolis Kantaris, a 44-year-old Greek man, died after a stabbing in what appeared to be a street robbery in the Kato Patissia neighbourhood of downtown Athens. He was attacked as he was taking out his car to take his pregnant wife to hospital to give birth to their second child. Kantaris had another two kids from his first wedding. Manolis Kantaris was heading for a car park near his home when he was attacked by the three assailants. The attackers grabbed his camera and fled. Residents blamed the killing on the institutional neglect of their neighbourhood and an 'immigrant crime wave'.

The Greek police captured two foreigners from Afghanistan at the age of 27 and 20 years in connection with the murder. The two Afghans admitted that they are the perpetrators of the crime and described the events in detail. They told the police that they had sold the camera stolen from Manolis Kantaris for 120 euros in the tourist region Monastiraki hours after the murder.

Greece is currently struggling to contain a wave of illegal immigration. There are at least 500,000 illegal immigrants currently living in the country entering Greece through Fyrom and Turkish borders.

FYROM CRIMES
Now tells us Psoletta what are you doing to stop the continuous crime in Fyrom? Trafficking of young girls, kids, rapes, slavery, drugs, robberies etc etc
What are you doing in Fyrom the Kingdom of trafficing and modern slavery to stop crime?

http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Macedonia.h...
Fyromis a source, transit, and destination country for women and children trafficked for the purpose of commercial sexual exploitation.Fyromian women and children are trafficked internally within the country. Victims trafficked into Fyrom are primarily from Albania and Kosovo. Fyromian victims and victims transiting through Fyrom are trafficked to South Central and Western Europe. Children, primarily ethnic Roma, are trafficked for the purpose of forced begging within the country. Victims were trafficked for the purpose of forced labor in Fyrom’s service sectors.- U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June, 2009

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED PSOLETTA, INSTEAD SPREADING YOUR STUPID PROPAGANDA IN HERE GO HAVE A LOOK IN YOUR 2 KIDS BEFORE THEY FALL VICTIMS OF SEX CRIMES (IF NOT ALREADY)
MAKEDONIA IS GREEK

Ródos, Greece

#18 Sep 25, 2011
Rosetta stone wrote:
The Greek society Psoletta was shocked for the death of 1 innocent father by illegal immigrants having entered Greece from Fyrom.

Are you getting any shocked for the continuous crimes against women and kids in Fyrom? Sex abuses, slavery, trafficking, drugs,illegal immigration etc etc. Are you shocked at all at your own shit???

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