Greece flexes muscles in Macedonia name spat

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - EU leaders on Friday adopted watered down objectives on Macedonia's progress towards the European Union following pressure from Greece over the country's name.

[Sun_Burst]

It's going to be a long tough battle, with may obstacles ahead of us, before we are alowed the privilege of joinging the EU, or Nato. As incredible as it sounds, the spineless European states are allowing the racist Athenian regime to dictate the terms of the entry into this "not-so-desireable anymore "club. As important as it is to join the club and to work from within the group to dismantle an individual state's aggression (Greek) towards it's own people (the Macedonians inside and outside it's own borders) it is obvious to see that the gullible and weak European states have a long way to go, before they truly embrace the values of democracy and freedom.

The real question now, is "do we want to be part of it?"

[Evangelia]

Sun_Burst wrote:

It's going to be a long tough battle, with may obstacles ahead of us, before we are alowed the privilege of joinging the EU, or Nato. As incredible as it sounds, the spineless European states are allowing the racist Athenian regime to dictate the terms of the entry into this "not-so-desireable anymore "club. As important as it is to join the club and to work from within the group to dismantle an individual state's aggression (Greek) towards it's own people (the Macedonians inside and outside it's own borders) it is obvious to see that the gullible and weak European states have a long way to go, before they truly embrace the values of democracy and freedom.
The real question now, is "do we want to be part of it?"

yes , you do...

and greece want´s you to join..

but i´m losing my time,
this is another useless progaganda-posting..

greetings

[Makedonikos Agonas]

The Macedonian peoples (i.e. the people living today in Greek, Vardar or Bulgarian Macedonia REGARDLESS OF THEIR ETHNICITY, RELIGION etc.) are experiencing in recent years an attempt by a minority of hardly 20-25%(the Slav Makedonci) of the whole population to force a change of the geographical content and context of the term Macedonian WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.

This is highly illegitimate and therefore unacceptable according to even the barest international standards of self-determination and respect for human rights. Therefore, it has to stop at once.

NO CHANGES TO THE USE AND CONTEXT OF THE TERM MACEDONIAN UNTIL THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLES SAY SO!

DON'T LET A MINORITY'S OPPRESSING RULING ELITE DECIDE IN THEIR PLACE!

[GreekHoplite]

Makedonikos Agonas wrote:

The Macedonian peoples (i.e. the people living today in Greek, Vardar or Bulgarian Macedonia REGARDLESS OF THEIR ETHNICITY, RELIGION etc.) are experiencing in recent years an attempt by a minority of hardly 20-25%(the Slav Makedonci) of the whole population to force a change of the geographical content and context of the term Macedonian WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
This is highly illegitimate and therefore unacceptable according to even the barest international standards of self-determination and respect for human rights. Therefore, it has to stop at once.
NO CHANGES TO THE USE AND CONTEXT OF THE TERM MACEDONIAN UNTIL THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLES SAY SO!
DON'T LET A MINORITY'S OPPRESSING RULING ELITE DECIDE IN THEIR PLACE!

well said!

[Maniot]

Just to be fair Fyrom whether changes or not its constitutional name and stop propaganda does not mean that it will join EU. EU is a completely different thing than NATO. Without wanting to insult anyone Fyrom is extremely poor with no real and solid democratic institutions. Has no access to sea (which may mean nothing to a healthy economy like Austria but means a lot to a developing country), no industry, no respect for minority rights, no healthy economy and even its survival as a state is challenged by at least 30% of its own citizens. The main question in my view is not whether they change the name but whether they will loose half of their land and population within the next decade.
I am possitive that Fyrom will go through unbelievable changes when they realize that despite what their politicians and ex pats tell them are about 100 years behind the rest of Europe. Even countries like Albania are making bold steps while they are still are building a reputation as the "Cuba" of Europe.

[Name]

Makedonikos Agonas wrote:

The Macedonian peoples (i.e. the people living today in Greek, Vardar or Bulgarian Macedonia REGARDLESS OF THEIR ETHNICITY, RELIGION etc.) are experiencing in recent years an attempt by a minority of hardly 20-25%(the Slav Makedonci) of the whole population to force a change of the geographical content and context of the term Macedonian WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
This is highly illegitimate and therefore unacceptable according to even the barest international standards of self-determination and respect for human rights. Therefore, it has to stop at once.
NO CHANGES TO THE USE AND CONTEXT OF THE TERM MACEDONIAN UNTIL THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLES SAY SO!
DON'T LET A MINORITY'S OPPRESSING RULING ELITE DECIDE IN THEIR PLACE!

Couldn't agree more.

[Makedonikos Agonas]

Friends please vote:

Macedonia and the Macedonians in 2008.

The geographical regions of Macedonia:

1) Vardar Macedonia: The Northern-Northwest part coinciding with the territory of the F.Y. Republic of Macedonia.

2) Greek (or Aegean) Macedonia: The Southern, coastal part.

3) The Bulgarian Province of Blagoevgrad (or Pirin Macedonia): The Northeast part.

The ethnicities of modern Macedonians:

- Slav Makedonci: A distinct, South Slavic ethnic group, related to Bulgarians, encountered predominantly in Vardar Macedonia.

- Greek Macedonians: Ethnic Greek population encountered predominantly in Greek Macedonia.

- Macedonian Bulgarians: Ethnic Bulgarian population encountered predominantly in the Blagoevgrad Province.

- Macedonian Albanians: Ethnic Albanian population encountered in Vardar Macedonia.

- Other Macedonian ethnicities of smaller numbers, including Turks, Serbs, Vlachs, Pomaks, Aromanians etc.

Vote, at the relative poll, on whether you agree on the geographical and ethnological facts given above.

[Mia Zoi Ellada]

Sun_Burst wrote:

European states have a long way to go, before they truly embrace the values of democracy and freedom.
The real question now, is "do we want to be part of it?"

Your questioning Europe on democracy and freedom, you...after your recent elections? WTF? LOL

The real question is if Canada wants you. Throwbacks dude, throwbacks.

At this point, I don't know if Europe wants the trouble of admitting a country like yours who has expansionist ideas on each and every one of your neighbors...forget about the education part. Greece didnt really flex its muscles as this article states. Many countries ran towards Greece's side on this one. Have you not been reading the press on the elections in FYRoM? And some of your political parties and your media have audacity to point the finger at Greece for the recent election violence. Even though your officials have and continue to make arrests on police officials and citizens of your country for the election violence. Go back to reading the "Late summer" Alexander the Great calls meeting of the Slavic League at Rusjaci.

Funny books funny people funny history.

[Captain Agras]

Name wrote:

<quoted text>
Couldn't agree more.

I think the EU will soon be asking: Of what benefit to member states is it for FYROM to join?

[Greek Islander]

Can you imagine FYROM trying to negotiate entry into the EU while showing their maps of "Greater Macedonia" and citing millions of oppresed "ethnic" Macedonians who are virtual prisoners in Northern Greece? LOL.

Don't they understand that in order to join the EU, FYROM cannot have border issues with her neighbors.

[Name]

Captain Agras wrote:

<quoted text>
I think the EU will soon be asking: Of what benefit to member states is it for FYROM to join?

They have no idea how hard are the EU negotiations (nothing to do with NATO) and how many years it takes to finish them chapter by chapter (31 in total) and they haven't even started them yet. But they are convinced that if they solve the problems with their neighbours they are ready to join on 1st of january 2009.

[jarno truli]

So the real situation is the following;

1. there is no mutualy acceptable solution for the name issue. you continue to block us we file trial for genocide
2.Every country goes its way we stop diplomatic relations, trade, and negotiations about the name.

So bye, nothing more to say to you, maybe to rephrase the great orathor Demosthenes: Macedonians are not Greek,

Regards from the beautiful Republic of Macedonia

Soon you will understand that YOU CAN NOT RENAME OTHER NATION AGAINST OUR WILL !!! FREAKS!!!

[Pireotis]

There is NO Republic of Macedonia!
That was an invention of Tito!
Nobody can trust a lunatic communist!
UN recognises you as FYROM!

[Makedonikos Agonas]

Jarno your people need to also understand that the they cannot deprive the other Macedonian peoples from their Macedonian identity...

[Mia Zoi Ellada]

jarno truli wrote:

, maybe to rephrase the great orathor Demosthenes: Macedonians are not Greek,

The word your looking for is orator. Please correct that FYRoMian blog....it should read "The great Athenian statesman and "orator" Demosthenes", ok you student of Demosthenes (LOL)??? Your not fluent in Greek let alone ancient Greek yet your trying to understand ancient Greek politics. We need more people like you who are interested in the classics. Just tell the UN that you do not want to change your countries constitutional name already and see how that goes.

Why do you think Security Council resolution 817 passed for? Do you think council members passed this resolution sh|ts and giggles?

here read the resolution for yourself:

The Security Council,

Having examined the application for admission to the United Nations in document S/25147,

Noting that the applicant fulfils the criteria for membership in the United Nations laid down in Article 4 of the Charter,

Noting however that a difference has arisen over the name of the State, which needs to be resolved in the interest of the maintenance of peaceful and good-neighbourly relations in the region,

Welcoming the readiness of the Co-Chairmen of the Steering Committee of the International Conference on the Former Yugoslavia, at the request of the Secretary-General, to use their good offices to settle the above-mentioned difference, and to promote confidence-building measures among the parties,

Taking note of the contents of the letters contained in documents S/25541, S/25542 and S/25543 received from the parties,

1. Urges the parties to continue to cooperate with the Co-Chairmen of the Steering Committee of the International Conference on the Former Yugoslavia in order to arrive at a speedy settlement of their difference;
2. Recommends to the General Assembly that the State whose application is contained in document S/25147 be admitted to membership in the United Nations, this State being provisionally referred to for all purposes within the United Nations as "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" pending settlement of the difference that has arisen over the name of the State;
3. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Council on the outcome of the initiative taken by the Co-Chairmen of the Steering Committee of the International Conference on the Former Yugoslavia.

[real78]

For me they will always be Yugoslavians. Deal with it.

[Mia Zoi Ellada]

Important part of the resolution that FYRoM has repeatedly ignored:

###Noting however that a difference has arisen over the name of the State, which needs to be resolved in the interest of the maintenance of peaceful and good-neighbourly relations in the region

and

####Welcoming the readiness of the Co-Chairmen of the Steering Committee of the International Conference on the Former Yugoslavia, at the request of the Secretary-General, to use their good offices to settle the above-mentioned difference, and to promote confidence-building measures among the parties

and

####Urges the parties to continue to cooperate with the Co-Chairmen of the Steering Committee of the International Conference on the Former Yugoslavia in order to arrive at a speedy settlement of their difference

Yet the people of FYRoM are upset that Greeks call their country FYRoM but thats what the UN tells us to call you, see below:

####Recommends to the General Assembly that the State whose application is contained in document S/25147 be admitted to membership in the United Nations, this State being provisionally referred to for all purposes within the United Nations as "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" pending settlement of the difference that has arisen over the name of the State.

[jarno truli]

Pireotis wrote:

There is NO Republic of Macedonia!
That was an invention of Tito!
Nobody can trust a lunatic communist!
UN recognises you as FYROM!

THERE IS NO YOU, JUST AN INTERNET FREAK THAT CLAIMS THAT 2 MILION PEOPLE HERE DOES NOT EXIST!!! ARE YOU NORMAL??? or???

[jarno truli]

Mia Zoi Ellada wrote:

<quoted text>
The word your looking for is orator. Please correct that FYRoMian blog....it should read "The great Athenian statesman and "orator" Demosthenes", ok you student of Demosthenes (LOL)??? Your not fluent in Greek let alone ancient Greek yet your trying to understand ancient Greek politics. We need more people like you who are interested in the classics. Just tell the UN that you do not want to change your countries constitutional name already and see how that goes.
Why do you think Security Council resolution 817 passed for? Do you think council members passed this resolution sh|ts and giggles?
here read the resolution for yourself:
The Security Council,
Having examined the application for admission to the United Nations in document S/25147,
Noting that the applicant fulfils the criteria for membership in the United Nations laid down in Article 4 of the Charter,
Noting however that a difference has arisen over the name of the State, which needs to be resolved in the interest of the maintenance of peaceful and good-neighbourly relations in the region,
Welcoming the readiness of the Co-Chairmen of the Steering Committee of the International Conference on the Former Yugoslavia, at the request of the Secretary-General, to use their good offices to settle the above-mentioned difference, and to promote confidence-building measures among the parties,
Taking note of the contents of the letters contained in documents S/25541, S/25542 and S/25543 received from the parties,
1. Urges the parties to continue to cooperate with the Co-Chairmen of the Steering Committee of the International Conference on the Former Yugoslavia in order to arrive at a speedy settlement of their difference;
2. Recommends to the General Assembly that the State whose application is contained in document S/25147 be admitted to membership in the United Nations, this State being provisionally referred to for all purposes within the United Nations as "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" pending settlement of the difference that has arisen over the name of the State;
3. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Council on the outcome of the initiative taken by the Co-Chairmen of the Steering Committee of the International Conference on the Former Yugoslavia.

This is all becouse you mallpractise your membership in international organisation because you were a member earlier then us. But who plays with fire will be burned at the end, that is what older people say. ARE YOU NORMAL to show no respect for the national feeling of 2 million people hare and try to rename them against their will, do you think someone will accept it NEVER, not in your wildest dreams!!!

[jarno truli]

Makedonikos Agonas wrote:

Jarno your people need to also understand that the they cannot deprive the other Macedonian peoples from their Macedonian identity...

I know that you try to be objective and help both sides find solution, but there is not a solution. We will leave outside EU and NATO so what???