PAOKARA

Thessaloníki, Greece

#26 May 28, 2010
Trajce wrote:
<quoted text>
if you are not Bulgarian then Albo or Roma or mongol or 100000000 more things
Mithridates

Athens, Greece

#27 May 28, 2010
A number of Partisan units, and the part of local population, engaged in mass murder in the immediate postwar period against perceived Axis sympathizers, collaborators, and/or facsists. The best known incidents include the Bleiburg massacre, the foibe massacres, and the killings in Ba&#269;ka.

The Bleiburg massacre was the retribution enacted by the Partisans on the retreating column of Chetnik, Slovene Home Guard, and Ustaše soldiers that was retreating towards Austria in an attempt to surrender to western Allied forces. The "foibe massacres" draw their name from the "foibe" pits in which Croatian Partisans of the 8th Dalmatian Corps (often along with groups of angry civilian locals) shot Italian fascists, and suspected (or even alleged) collaborationists and/or separatists, in retribution to the decades-long Italian oppression they experienced. According to a mixed Slovene-Italian historical commission[20] established in 1993, which investigated only on what happened in places included in present-day Italy and Slovenia, the killings seemed to proceed from endeavors to remove persons linked with fascism (regardless of their personal responsibility), and endeavors to carry out preventive cleansing of real, potential or only alleged opponents of the communist government. The 1944-1945 killings in Ba&#269;ka were similar in nature and entailed the killing of Hungarian fascist separatists, and their suspected affiliates, without regard to their personal responsibility.

The numbers of dead due to Italian, German and collaborationist organised killings, however, far outstrip even the most lavish estimates of the Partisan crimes' death toll. Indeed, the Partisans didn't have an official genocidal agenda (unlike the Ustaše, the Chetniks, the Italians, and the Germans), as their cardinal ideal was the "brotherhood and unity" of all Yugoslav nations (the phrase became the motto for the new Yugoslavia). To put in perspective the extent of genocide occurring throughout Yugoslavia during the War, it suffices to say the country suffered about 1,027,000 dead during the Axis occupation, civilian and military (in comparison, the United States and Great Britain together suffered approximately 630,000).[21] Only a small fraction constitute civilians actually killed by the Partisans.

This controversial chapter of Partisan history was a taboo subject for conversation in the SFR Yugoslavia until the late 1980s, and as a result, decades of official silence created a reaction in the form of numerous data manipulation for nationalist propaganda purposes.[22]
Mithridates

Athens, Greece

#28 May 28, 2010
The Bleiburg massacre was the retribution enacted by the Partisans on the retreating column of Chetnik, Slovene Home Guard, and Ustaše soldiers that was retreating towards Austria in an attempt to surrender to western Allied forces.
----------
how brave, to slaughter the surrendering soldiers.

“Macedonian, therefore Greek”

Since: Apr 07

Lychnidos, occupied Macedonia

#29 May 28, 2010
VladoMK wrote:
First give me another 10 definitions about the "Greek" purity.
what Greek purity bre hayvani ??
Loalio

Padstow, Australia

#30 May 29, 2010
Everyone stick to the subject, there are many other threads to post all the other issues.

Macedonians are Macedonians, irrespective of speech or text, and no court in the world could deny that given the dna evidence.

PAOKARA according to you are Macedonian's bulgars, albo, chinese or what???, don't you consider scientific proof, or do you just like other super nationalistic greeks still believe your crap.

Stick to facts, stop this your boring and outdated bulgar, albo, gypsy, serbo name calling propaganda. The truth is if this matter was one day solved you'd have nothing to do, this is not the middle east, maybe you could then divert your energy to re-flamming the greek turk conflict again.

Tell me what are you going to do, not if, but when Macedonia enters the EU and NATO?, and i can assure you all this is going to happen far sooner than you all think.

Nick the Greek

London, UK

#31 May 29, 2010
Loalio wrote:
Everyone stick to the subject, there are many other threads to post all the other issues.
Macedonians are Macedonians, irrespective of speech or text, and no court in the world could deny that given the dna evidence.
PAOKARA according to you are Macedonian's bulgars, albo, chinese or what???, don't you consider scientific proof, or do you just like other super nationalistic greeks still believe your crap.
Stick to facts, stop this your boring and outdated bulgar, albo, gypsy, serbo name calling propaganda. The truth is if this matter was one day solved you'd have nothing to do, this is not the middle east, maybe you could then divert your energy to re-flamming the greek turk conflict again.
Tell me what are you going to do, not if, but when Macedonia enters the EU and NATO?, and i can assure you all this is going to happen far sooner than you all think.
Loalio......

The Genetic Evidence is here:
http://www.pnas.org/content/94/15/7719/F2.exp...
Read carefully what it say's about Map4.

The Full Article is here:
http://www.pnas.org/content/94/15/7719.full
L.Luca Cavalli-Sforza......Genes Languages and People.

You don't have to be a Geneticist to figure out that Map4 illustrates the Genetic Geography of the Greek Hellenic Expansion and Colonization of Antiquity.

All those areas where the Greeks Settled, the Genetic Signature is Striking.

From Italy in the West to Anatolia in the East the Genetic Geography reveals a Pattern and a Signature which is Identical to
Greek Hellenic Colonization of Antiquity....Told to us in those ancient Historic Text's, Academia has now Proven by Genetics Studies on the Populations of those Regions.

Striking how the Greek Hellenic Genetic Signature Still Dominates those areas and regions where the Greeks Settled....Testament to the Resiliance and the Dominance of the Hellenes, in who's Name the Modern Greeks Represent.
Nick the Greek

London, UK

#32 May 29, 2010
From Italy in the West to Anatolia in the East the Genetic Geography reveals a Pattern and a Signature which is Identical to the Greek Hellenic Colonization of Antiquity, told to us in those ancient Historic Text's and which has been proven by Academia in the Fields of Genetics.

Genetic Studies on the Populations of those Regions is very Telling. Striking how the Greek Hellenic Genetic Signature Still Dominates in those areas and in those regions where the Greeks Settled....Testament to the Resiliance and the Dominance of the Hellenes, in who's Name the Modern Greeks Represent.

Some of You SouthSlav [FYRoM] guy's are More Greek Hellenic than You Care to Mention......Genetically that is!

The Genetic Debate is in Favour of the Greek Positions simply because the Genetic Evidence is Striking.....Macedonia has always been Greek, from the beginning, since time immemorial!

The Slavic Incursions of the 6th Century A.D. witnessed the Settlement of the Slavs and Other's into the Imperial lands of the Eastern Roman Empire
[Byzantium].

Cross Fertilization Occured [[by force][by free will]]. The Slavs and Other's Raped and Pillaged their way into the Greek Byzantine [Romioi] Gene
Pool, this is how the Southern Slavs [FYRoMians] get connected to the Greeks......Genetically!

Before the 6th Century A.D. we were all Eastern Romans [Romioi] Greek Speaker's, in the eyes of the Patriach of Constantinople we were all One People, Orthodox and Christian.

Come the 6th Century A.D. some of our ancestor's found themselves behind Enemy lines and within Slavic Bulgar encampments, where after some time they finally had to succumb to the inevitable..... Slavicization [[by force][by free will]].

Rather Perverse for [FYRoM] SouthernSlavs in the moder Era, to Wantonly display their Utter Contempt for All things Greek Hellenic, whilst at the same time Proclaim to the World that they have More rights to Greek Names Symbols History and Heritage........?

Do the SouthSlavs of FYRoM think that they can Gatecrash their way into the History and Heritage of the Greeks simply by Applying that Greek Hellenic Name to their Language Ethnicity and Nationality.

Modern Greeks will NEVER give up their Historic rights. Today's Greeks will Protect and Defend their Names Symbols History and Heritage.....Come Hell or High Water.

Re-Hellenization Remains the Only Way of Sharing in the History and Heritage of the Greeks. Re-Hellenize [[willingly][voluntarily]] and get back to base, back to your Greek Hellenic Roots and Ethno-Origins........Only then could the Modern Greeks call you guy's "Macedonians".

Macedonians are those people that have remained loyal to Hellenism, Proud to have retained that [Greek] language and that [Hellenic] culture which ultimately connects them back to that civilization and to that campaign their ancestor's initiated to expand [Hellenism], the Greek Hellenic Language, Knowledge and Culture to the furthestmost points of the then known world.

Thats Right

Mitcham, Australia

#33 May 29, 2010
Nick the Greek wrote:
FYRoM guy's alway's like to bring genetics into the debate which thus far has always backed up what the Greeks have been saying all along, from the beginning, namely some of you [FYRoMian] guy's carry native and indigenous, original and autochthonous genes to Southeastern Europe [Balkans] which includes:
The "Old European" Y-Dna haplogroups E-V13, J2b, T, G2a, I2a, I2a2.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogr...
To give you an understanding about haplogroups and their maximun diffusions, I have posted this link:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/SwWxkQG...
If we use Common Sense, one does not have to be a Geneticist to figure out which haplogroups are Native and Indigenous, Original and Autochthonous to Southeastern Europe.
The latest population genetic studies are here:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_...
This Chart is as Credible as it gets and is Continuously Updated as New data comes in.
Conclusion: Some FYRoM guy's carry native and indigenous, original and autochthonous genetic material because their ancestor's were originally the same as us [Greeks].
Exogenous Peoples to Southeastern Europe, Celts Goths Avars Huns Bulgars Slavs Turks and Other's left their Genetic Mark in the region in the form of Admixture through Cross Fertilization
[[by force][by free will]].
Where you [FYRoM] guy's tried [through Propaganda] to Rubbish the modern Greeks through their Genes, the Genetic debate and the Genetic Evidence continues to support the Autochthonous Status of the Greeks. We are Native and Original to our lands and our Southeastern region of Europe, we have been here for Millenia, from the beginning, since time immemorial and You guy's have no other choice but to acknowledge this fact.
The Genetic Debate and the Genetic Evidence can not be dismissed, some of you guy's are Slavicized indigenous Greeks or a derivative of them, meaning a Greek proper or a Romanized Greek or a Hellenized Roman or a Hellenized Thracian or a Romanized/Hellenized Illyrian all these [Romioi] combinations were actively part and parcel of the Byzantine Eastern Roman Empire before the Slavic Incursions of the 6th Century A.D.
Come the 6th Century A.D. your ancestor's for whatever reason, discared their Greek Hellenic language and adopted the Slavonic language [[by force][by free will]] and subsequently the whole Slavic culture, which "ironically" over time and at a later stage, accepted [[willingly][voluntarily]] the Greek Orthodox Religion Culture and Traditions of the Byzantine [Eastern Roman] Empire!
There is No Way you [FYRoM] guy's could continue with the deception, you must accept and respect the Greek Hellenic peoples in their own homelands.
Accept the Evidence that some of you have been Slavicized, conversely you guy's could if you wanted to....Re-Hellenize, get back to your Hellenic Roots and Ethno-Origins, only then could you claim to be a Macedonian.
Macedonians are those people that have remained Proud to have retained that [Greek] language and that [Hellenic] culture which ultimately connects them back to that civilization and to that campaign their ancestor's initiated to expand [Hellenism], the Greek Hellenic Language, Knowledge and Culture to the furthestmost points of the then known world.
Nice post Nick!
Loalio

Padstow, Australia

#34 May 30, 2010
Nick the Greek wrote:
<quoted text>Loalio......
The Genetic Evidence is here:
http://www.pnas.org/content/94/15/7719/F2.exp...
Read carefully what it say's about Map4.
The Full Article is here:
http://www.pnas.org/content/94/15/7719.full
L.Luca Cavalli-Sforza......Genes Languages and People.
You don't have to be a Geneticist to figure out that Map4 illustrates the Genetic Geography of the Greek Hellenic Expansion and Colonization of Antiquity.
All those areas where the Greeks Settled, the Genetic Signature is Striking.
From Italy in the West to Anatolia in the East the Genetic Geography reveals a Pattern and a Signature which is Identical to
Greek Hellenic Colonization of Antiquity....Told to us in those ancient Historic Text's, Academia has now Proven by Genetics Studies on the Populations of those Regions.
Striking how the Greek Hellenic Genetic Signature Still Dominates those areas and regions where the Greeks Settled....Testament to the Resiliance and the Dominance of the Hellenes, in who's Name the Modern Greeks Represent.
Nick,

I'm not contesting DNA findings, i'd be an idiot if i did, my last post does not contest that, what i do have a problem is that according to your definition that a Macedonian cannot be Macedonian because they speak slavic and write in cyrillic? This is a totally baised and unreasonable assessment and declaration by your part and "Thats right" part as you would know beleifs, attidues and other outside influence change how life was lived thousands and thousands of years ago. just look at relgion.

Are you english?, am i english, is anyone on this topic english?, i doubt it, because we all write in it.

Do greeks or macedonians require direct blood lines or require to be Christians to be called as such within there own countries? We both know that they don't. Look at the albo's, turks, gypies etc in both countries, yet they hold a passport that states that they are greek or Macedonian. We both reside outside of these countries, yet i and maybe you don't either hold a greek passport other than the country that you live in, i know that i don't, but i still call myself Macedonian.

Being indeginous to a region is one thing (DNA), living like the acients via speech, texts, traditions like they did several thousands of years ago is another.
Nick the Greek

London, UK

#35 May 30, 2010
Loalio wrote:
<quoted text>
Nick,
I'm not contesting DNA findings, i'd be an idiot if i did, my last post does not contest that, what i do have a problem is that according to your definition that a Macedonian cannot be Macedonian because they speak slavic and write in cyrillic? This is a totally baised and unreasonable assessment and declaration by your part and "Thats right" part as you would know beleifs, attidues and other outside influence change how life was lived thousands and thousands of years ago. just look at relgion.
Are you english?, am i english, is anyone on this topic english?, i doubt it, because we all write in it.
Do greeks or macedonians require direct blood lines or require to be Christians to be called as such within there own countries? We both know that they don't. Look at the albo's, turks, gypies etc in both countries, yet they hold a passport that states that they are greek or Macedonian. We both reside outside of these countries, yet i and maybe you don't either hold a greek passport other than the country that you live in, i know that i don't, but i still call myself Macedonian.
Being indeginous to a region is one thing (DNA), living like the acients via speech, texts, traditions like they did several thousands of years ago is another.
Loalio.......

I am happy to have inputted to your reasoned opinion in matter's of blood and Dna.

Ethnicity is not relative to Blood and Dna, example = Janitsaries, where European Orthodox Christian children were raised by the Ottomans to be good Turks in order to commit attrocities on their own kith and kin. Janitsaries Blood and Dna was NOT Turkish, was it........?
yet they thought of themselves as being more Turkish than those "Outsider's" Eastern Oriental Turks, in who's name they represented themselves!

So.....If Blood and Dna is not Relative to Ethnicity, what is it that makes you a "Macedonian" or a "Turk" for that matter........?

Ethnicity is a very awkward subject to didcuss and to define. The Modern Concept/Criteria of Ethnicity must Not be compared to that of the ancient Past. In ancient times, Language was the Main Ethnic Identifier!

Ethnicity in the modern [context] sense could be construed as being a Manipulative concept / process. Closed off societies with little or No outside Influences could succumb to Manipulative processes in the form of Education, or for want of a better word "Propaganda". A modern day example would be Belorus, a Belorus language, ethnicity and nationality NEVER existed in the past, yet through the Manipulative processes of Education and Other Political Tools, it exist's Today!

A second such example could be cited, but for reasons of courtesy decency and politeness, I shall not forward that on in this discussion.

It's NOT about Blood and Dna, when a Collection of those Native and Indigenous, Original and Autochthonous peoples of Southeastern Europe decided to Cross Fertilize [[by force][by free will]] they produced a Peoples which then went on to create a Language and a Culture, a Civilization which was so Resiliant and so Dominant, Other Regional [[groups][tribes][kingdoms]] Peoples Succumbed to it's Superior elements.

Hellenism was Accepted as the "Culture of Choice" because of it's Superior Elements. Under that "Hellenic" Name, our Region Reached it's Azimuth in the fields of the Arts and Sciences, Warfare and Other Disciplines.

Conclusion: It's all about "Pride"......Pride in your ancestor's, Pride in your History, Pride in your Heritage.

Macedonians are those people that have remained loyal to Hellenism, Proud to have retained that [Greek] language and that [Hellenic] culture which ultimately connects them back to that civilization and to that campaign their ancestor's initiated to expand [Hellenism], the Greek Hellenic Language, Knowledge and Culture to the furthestmost points of the then known world.

Loalio.....Some of You guy's could Re-Hellenize and Return back to the Fold!
Loalio

Padstow, Australia

#36 Jun 1, 2010
As mentioned prevoiusly, i don't agree with your definition of Macedonian.

Furthermore these days hellenism does not provide an viable nor attractive presence in todays modern world, these days hellenism is seen wrongly or rightly, more or less in a historical context.

The romantic views of Hellenism is dead, the hellenic system has worked in the past in creating hellens and the greek nation, but your own countrymen do not apply it, greece is fragile, look at the finanical crisis and the social and geopolitical unrest.
Nick the Greek

London, UK

#37 Jun 1, 2010
Loalio wrote:
As mentioned prevoiusly, i don't agree with your definition of Macedonian.
Furthermore these days hellenism does not provide an viable nor attractive presence in todays modern world, these days hellenism is seen wrongly or rightly, more or less in a historical context.
The romantic views of Hellenism is dead, the hellenic system has worked in the past in creating hellens and the greek nation, but your own countrymen do not apply it, greece is fragile, look at the finanical crisis and the social and geopolitical unrest.
Loalio......

Of course you don't agree, you are from SouthSlavic stock, we don't expect you guy's to Conform to the Mainstream.

The Message is Clear......SouthSlavs and Turks will NEVER be allowed to Rewrite our Common European History, where FYRoM's SouthSlavs somehow get connected to the ancient Macedonians, the Slovenians get connected to the Veneti and other's to the Illyrians and the Thracians.....and of the Turks, well they get connected to the Etruscans and the Trojans!!!!!!!

Can you see how Silly you guy's have become!

As for Hellenism and it's Attractiveness......Today's Greeks are the Sole and Legal modern Representatives of the Hellenic Legacy.

No Other modern people, in the Balkans or in the whole world are Closer to the ancient Macedonians than today's Modern Greeks.

Loalio......This is for you, Read it and Try to Understand it!

Macedonians are those people that have remained loyal to Hellenism, Proud to have retained that [Greek] language and that [Hellenic] culture which ultimately connects them back to that civilization and to that campaign their ancestor's initiated to expand [Hellenism], the Greek Hellenic Language, Knowledge and Culture to the furthestmost points of the then known world.

Us Greeks Shall Never allow you SouthSlav guy's to Rubbish our History. We shall Chase This Problem between Greeks SouthSlavs Untill Closure.
Loalio

Padstow, Australia

#38 Jun 1, 2010
Nick the Greek wrote:
<quoted text>Loalio......
Of course you don't agree, you are from SouthSlavic stock, we don't expect you guy's to Conform to the Mainstream.
The Message is Clear......SouthSlavs and Turks will NEVER be allowed to Rewrite our Common European History, where FYRoM's SouthSlavs somehow get connected to the ancient Macedonians, the Slovenians get connected to the Veneti and other's to the Illyrians and the Thracians.....and of the Turks, well they get connected to the Etruscans and the Trojans!!!!!!!
Can you see how Silly you guy's have become!
As for Hellenism and it's Attractiveness......Today's Greeks are the Sole and Legal modern Representatives of the Hellenic Legacy.
No Other modern people, in the Balkans or in the whole world are Closer to the ancient Macedonians than today's Modern Greeks.
Loalio......This is for you, Read it and Try to Understand it!
Macedonians are those people that have remained loyal to Hellenism, Proud to have retained that [Greek] language and that [Hellenic] culture which ultimately connects them back to that civilization and to that campaign their ancestor's initiated to expand [Hellenism], the Greek Hellenic Language, Knowledge and Culture to the furthestmost points of the then known world.
Us Greeks Shall Never allow you SouthSlav guy's to Rubbish our History. We shall Chase This Problem between Greeks SouthSlavs Untill Closure.
LOL, this thread is about how genetically close greeks and Macedonian's are and sugguest to re-hellenize, but then you say we are from slavic stock!!!

No need to patronise me, just because you have a different view to me does not make you the referee.

In response to your bravado, us Macedonians will never give up, i can promise you that.

We are slowly winning, 130 countries reconginse Macedonia under ROM out of 196, although we are a small country, have no armed forces and have a small economy.

Mark my words we will get into EU and NATO under the interim name within the next couple years, greece will have no leverage on this matter, then their will be no more name issue.
Nick the Greek

London, UK

#39 Jun 1, 2010
Loalio wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL, this thread is about how genetically close greeks and Macedonian's are and sugguest to re-hellenize, but then you say we are from slavic stock!!!
No need to patronise me, just because you have a different view to me does not make you the referee.
In response to your bravado, us Macedonians will never give up, i can promise you that.
We are slowly winning, 130 countries reconginse Macedonia under ROM out of 196, although we are a small country, have no armed forces and have a small economy.
Mark my words we will get into EU and NATO under the interim name within the next couple years, greece will have no leverage on this matter, then their will be no more name issue.
Loalio......

The genetic debate and the genetic evidence supports the Greeks.

Some of you guy's carry native and indigenous, original and autochthonous genes, not because you are [exogenous] Slavs, but because some of you guy's had ancestor's wich were the same as us Greeks.

Some of you guy's had Greek ancestor's which, for one reason or another became Slavicized [[by force][by free will]] during and after the Slavic incursions of the 6th Century A.D.

Some of you guy's ARE from Slavic stock, "Slavs proper" and it is this struggle which you guy's have to come to terms with.

Greeks say......True Macedonians are those who remained loyal to their Greek Hellenic Roots and Ethno-Origins.

It is not clear to me in which terms of reference you use that Macedonian Name, is it in the SlavMacedonian sense, in which case
you have no right to claim Greek Hellenic history and heritage.

Stop the deception and your Silliness, Slavdom or Hellenism, One or the Other, No Mixing or Matching Greek Hellenic things with Slavic things.

Those countries which recognize you now will recognize you later, under your New Name.

As for brovado, we have shown the world our loyalty to Hellenism.

Modern Greeks shall Protect and Defend their Historic Rights....Come Hell or High Water!

If Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians mean that much to You.......Re-Hellenize [[willingly][voluntarily]] and Return back to the Fold, that is, if you know for sure your ancestor's were from Greek Hellenic Stock!

If you are from Slavic Stock......what gives you the right to use that Greek Hellenic Name!

“ein anderer Schauplatz”

Since: Jan 09

Athens

#40 Jun 1, 2010
Genetic Differences Between the Slavic Minority and the Real Makedones of Greece:
NO GENETIC CONNECTION
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMace...
STORI

Mölndal, Sweden

#41 Jun 1, 2010
lilalo wrote:
Genetic Differences Between the Slavic Minority and the Real Makedones of Greece:
NO GENETIC CONNECTION
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMace...
HA HA HA. Firstly it does´nt say slav minority it says Macedonian minority you malaka. Secondly you should read it again what it says:






You can also click here to go directly to AncientSculptureGallery.com 's Hellenistic, Macedonian, Greek, and Roman sculptures. Ancient Sculpture Gallery has 9 different busts, statues, and plaques of Alexander the Great (including the famous Alexander Sarcophagus) and sculptures of Philip of Macedon, Demosthenes, Achilles, Hippocrates, Caesar, Apollo, Aphrodite, Heracles, Pan, Orpheus, Zeus, Artemis, Hermes, Dionysus, Athena, Perseus, Medusa, Eros, Centaur, Lapith, Nike, the Maenads, the Muses, the Graces, etc.



Genetic Differences Between Macedonians in Greece and the Greeks

American Association for the Advancement of Science

In the genetic analysis published by the Science Magazine of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, participated Macedonians from the Macedonian minority of Northern Greece (Aegean Macedonia) and Greeks, among with other European nations. The research shows a drastic difference in the Y chromosome genetic composition between the Greeks and Macedonians who live in Greece, as figure 3 clearly demonstrates. This is another proof that the Macedonians (the descendents of the Macedonians of Alexander the Great) which after the occupation of southern Macedonia (Aegean Macedonia) by the Greek army in 1913 find themselves living in Greece, have genetically never been Greeks.

WOW, talk about self-goal!!!!
Macedonians have never been greek. Remember.

“ein anderer Schauplatz”

Since: Jan 09

Athens

#42 Jun 1, 2010
STORI wrote:
<quoted text>
HA HA HA. Firstly it does´nt say slav minority it says Macedonian minority you malaka. Secondly you should read it again what it says:
You can also click here to go directly to AncientSculptureGallery.com 's Hellenistic, Macedonian, Greek, and Roman sculptures. Ancient Sculpture Gallery has 9 different busts, statues, and plaques of Alexander the Great (including the famous Alexander Sarcophagus) and sculptures of Philip of Macedon, Demosthenes, Achilles, Hippocrates, Caesar, Apollo, Aphrodite, Heracles, Pan, Orpheus, Zeus, Artemis, Hermes, Dionysus, Athena, Perseus, Medusa, Eros, Centaur, Lapith, Nike, the Maenads, the Muses, the Graces, etc.
Genetic Differences Between Macedonians in Greece and the Greeks
American Association for the Advancement of Science
In the genetic analysis published by the Science Magazine of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, participated Macedonians from the Macedonian minority of Northern Greece (Aegean Macedonia) and Greeks, among with other European nations. The research shows a drastic difference in the Y chromosome genetic composition between the Greeks and Macedonians who live in Greece, as figure 3 clearly demonstrates. This is another proof that the Macedonians (the descendents of the Macedonians of Alexander the Great) which after the occupation of southern Macedonia (Aegean Macedonia) by the Greek army in 1913 find themselves living in Greece, have genetically never been Greeks.
WOW, talk about self-goal!!!!
Macedonians have never been greek. Remember.
said the kara-idiot!
There is zero mongol in Hellenic Makedonia!
Nick the Greek

London, UK

#43 Jun 1, 2010
Today's Greeks see themselves as the sole and legal modern representatives of the Hellenic legacy.Modern Greek connections to their ancestors can be traced in a backwards compatible fashion right the way back to the ancients, does this mean blood purity, a blood connection back to the ancient Greeks........not necessarily, although anthropological studies and modern genetic studies
do support the Autochthonous status of the modern Greeks.

Blood and Dna are not relative to ethnicity and it is well known and documented that the ancient Hellenic culture was adopted as the "Culture of Choice" by many ancient groups tribes and kingdoms which found themselves in close proximity to the Hellenes.

So, how do we define Greeks.......since from the mythical days of the Argonauts to the present, neither the peninsula of Hellas nor Ionia and the Aegean Islands have been large enough to hold the far wandering Hellenes.

Greek is a language and a civilization, the Greeks a people, todays modern Greeks are the descendants of all the peoples that have adopted and retained that language and that civilization from classical times to the present.

Some of these converts to Hellenism were inhabitants of Asia Minor, others of Thrace and Byzantium, others of the lands bordering the Black Sea, especially the Crimea.

Other Converts to Hellenism included many southeastern Europeans, Epirotes, Arvanites, Vlachs, Aroumans, Slavophones, to name but a few, they fought and died for Hellenism and for Hellas!

Southeastern Europe is the Greek World. There is a little bit of Greek in all southeastern Europeans Including SouthSlavs, so why do I say this......?

If we could imagine a world with No Greeks, but we knew they once existed, where would geneticist's and anthropologist's go looking for them.........?

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_of_europe....
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_...
http://www.pnas.org/content/94/15/7719.full
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/1...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/SwWxkQG...

Modern genetic studies supports the Native and Indigenous, Original and Autochthonous status of the Greek.

Macedonians have always been Greek Hellenic People
right from the beginning, since the dawn of time, since time Immemorial.

Some of you SouthSlav guy's do carry Indigenous genetic material because your ancestor's were once
the same as us Greeks, which for one reason or another became Slavicized, this does not give you guy's the right to usurp their Names Symbols History and Heritage in order to Claim them for Slavdom.

Re-Hellenize, that is if you know for sure you are from Greek Hellenic stock and come back to the Fold!
Arrianos

Athens, Greece

#44 Jun 1, 2010
Nick the Greek wrote:
.........
Other Converts to Hellenism included many southeastern Europeans, Epirotes, Arvanites, Vlachs, Aroumans, Slavophones, to name but a few, they fought and died for Hellenism and for Hellas!
....
Epirotes were not converts to hellenism. Epirotes were as Greeks as Macedonians or other Greek people.
bljak

Macedonia

#45 Jun 1, 2010
Arrianos wrote:
<quoted text>Epirotes were not converts to hellenism. Epirotes were as Greeks as Macedonians or other Greek people.
All modern Greeks are converts from Anatolian to hellass

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