Incest
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Tumi

South Africa

#1 Mar 17, 2010
After watching MacKenzi Phillips story on Oprah about having had a consensual sexual relationship with her father for over ten years I have been wondering just how common incest is and is there really anything wrong with it because as far as I can see it, it's a victimless crime.
Please comment if you have something of value to add, ha ke kope ditlhapa aseblief tog
poorsoul

Maseru, Lesotho

#4 Mar 17, 2010
it is mostly a question of morals. in my sesotho culture it is regarded a curse and very inhuman. i believe this goes for most cultures.

“sethong le sethonyaneng”

Since: Feb 08

Thaba Tshwane

#5 Mar 17, 2010
on the moral front it may be considered unacceptable but then agin morality is subjective. e.g, the world will always be divided on the issue of homosexuality. on the scientific/genetic front incest causes problems but that'll only come to being if the concerned "victims who are not victims" make progeny. i guess i'm not giving u an answer but i'm just opening the debate further. i must be honest i never really given this some thought until i saw ur thread
Tumi

South Africa

#6 Mar 17, 2010
poorsoul wrote:
it is mostly a question of morals. in my sesotho culture it is regarded a curse and very inhuman. i believe this goes for most cultures.
Is it common though? And what do you mean by a curse?

“Maleshoane Boateng”

Since: Oct 08

Mind how you Go

#7 Mar 17, 2010
Tumi wrote:
After watching MacKenzi Phillips story on Oprah about having had a consensual sexual relationship with her father for over ten years I have been wondering just how common incest is and is there really anything wrong with it because as far as I can see it, it's a victimless crime.
Please comment if you have something of value to add, ha ke kope ditlhapa aseblief tog
Incest is a one of the most repulsive things more especially if it is done by a father to his daughter. In Mackenzie’s case her father introduced her to drugs and she suspects he had been secretly having sex with her while she was high. She only became aware when she discovered herself naked in bed with her dad. Perpetrators always entice their victims and brainwashes them into believing its consensual and OK to participate. mackenzie has since changed the use of the word consensual.

Ha ntse ke hola motseng o mong maseru hona le ngoanana ea ileng aba le bana ba babeli le ntatae a ntsa lula le ‘m’e oa hae. I had actually forgotten about her until I saw mckenzie’s story. Tlase pelong eaka ha ke lumele hore ngoanana eno one a lumela empa one asa tloaetse ekare ke ntho e normal ho robala le ntatae and theres always a story behind “litumellano”. This is heartbreaking ke sitoa ho amohela hore ke litumellano.
Jo-man

Durban, South Africa

#8 Mar 17, 2010
oa nyela pele re ka u araba re hloka hore re ke re u bitse ka botho ba hao.Empa ha ke tla litabeng tsa hao,nyoana e tla lula e jeoa ho sa tsotellehe na kea morali oa hao kapa che...ha u tsebe polelo e reng mokoko u itsoalla lithole?
Tumi

South Africa

#9 Mar 18, 2010
Lady_bird wrote:
<quoted text> Incest is a one of the most repulsive things more especially if it is done by a father to his daughter. In Mackenzie’s case her father introduced her to drugs and she suspects he had been secretly having sex with her while she was high. She only became aware when she discovered herself naked in bed with her dad. Perpetrators always entice their victims and brainwashes them into believing its consensual and OK to participate. mackenzie has since changed the use of the word consensual.
Ha ntse ke hola motseng o mong maseru hona le ngoanana ea ileng aba le bana ba babeli le ntatae a ntsa lula le ‘m’e oa hae. I had actually forgotten about her until I saw mckenzie’s story. Tlase pelong eaka ha ke lumele hore ngoanana eno one a lumela empa one asa tloaetse ekare ke ntho e normal ho robala le ntatae and theres always a story behind “litumellano”. This is heartbreaking ke sitoa ho amohela hore ke litumellano.
I agree it is repulsive, but MacKenzie continued to do it for ten years, even while she was married??? I mean she was a grown woman by then, why didn't she do something about it?
Lady B, for the purpose of this thread I want to differentiate between incest and abuse or molestation!! Case eo u buang ka yona ya ngwanana eno sounds like case ya abuse, ene tsona hee di common haholo feela Lesotho, ke tseba a few girls who had kids fathered by their own fathers......Incest akere ho thwe ke sexual intercourse between relatives or members of the same family i.e Brother & sister?
Ha ntse ke hola ho nale bana ba bang ba ileng ba etsa ngwana ba ntse ba utswetsana, ele bana ba lapa le le leng, their moms were sisters....bane ba kgalemeletswe ho "jola" ka makgetlo, and they continued, they were in their early 20's, ba ne ba holetse ha nkgono wa bona ba le babedi, so they had a brother-sister relationship but that didn't stop them from getting physical?? The whole village was so repelled by this, and they were stigmatised etc...haeba batho baa ba dumellane hobaneng re lokela ho ba ahlola? Morgan Freeman ke eno u itshwere ka stepdaughter, it's consensual!!
Likenkeng

Bamberg, Germany

#10 Mar 18, 2010
Tumiza ena taba e thata; the whole thing sounds so repulsive! hobane we have this father-model, mother-model, brother-model, sister-model which is not supposed to be sexual at all. engaging in sexual elationship is abusing this unique relationship.

besides, i've heard and observed that children spawned through incest have an increased risk of suffering from severe genetic damage. this is why in some countries the incest is punishable; up to five years in prison.

ena ea step-father le eona e thata. even if this man is not her biological father but a social father .....still very very repulsive.
Tumi

South Africa

#11 Mar 18, 2010
Wa tseba I once read a letter in an Agony Aunt column where a lady was saying that she lost her virginty to her father at the age of 19, and it was consensual. Her mom was aware and it was also with her consent and after sleeping with her dad, they said that she was now allowed to sleep with boyfriends but she claimed that she always enjoyed doing it with her dad more than she did with the boyfies!!! Meaning that she continued to have sex with her father, and this was without her mom's knowledge after the first time, which she claimed was to "deflower" her. Her problem was that she was now in a stable relationship but couldn't stop thinking and wanting to be with her dad?? I mean who is the victim in this case??

Since: Nov 08

any place on this planet

#12 Mar 18, 2010
tsena li batla ke lo inahana ka thata. really, i cant make any additions to what is being discussed at moment. kea tla
Tumi

South Africa

#13 Mar 18, 2010
Bitso-lebe wrote:
on the moral front it may be considered unacceptable but then agin morality is subjective. e.g, the world will always be divided on the issue of homosexuality. on the scientific/genetic front incest causes problems but that'll only come to being if the concerned "victims who are not victims" make progeny. i guess i'm not giving u an answer but i'm just opening the debate further. i must be honest i never really given this some thought until i saw ur thread
I guess it is just one of those things we tread to even think about! It is the subjectivity that I am questioning...I mean deep in my heart I believe it is wrong, but I can't really substantiate why!!
I mean going back to MacKenzie's story, she was high on drugs, 18, woke up and discovered that her pants were somewhere around her knees and her dad was "busy" with her, confronted him about it afterwards and called it rape, but her dad said he wasn't raping her he was "making love" to her? His own daughter? If she didn't like it why did she continue with it? Moral dilemma right there!!
And I mean there were other people who knew about it, but turned a blind eye and she also just never asked for help, was she a victim of incest or of drugs?
This thing happens so often, there are so many stories about it, of people admitting to having done it, and all they say is "I knew it was wrong but I didn't want to stop!" Why is it wrong?

“Maleshoane Boateng”

Since: Oct 08

Mind how you Go

#14 Mar 18, 2010
Ka ‘nete Tumi e thata ena taba. Mohlomong haele bana ba motho nkare e consensual empa ntate le morali ho ‘na ekare victim ke morali joalo ka mackenzie are the father said he was not raping her but making love to her. What was he implying? Maybe that was his way of brainwashing her into believing she had consented. Is it wrong? Yes and no depending on our different moral stands. Maybe in the 10 years that this was going on she didn’t think it was wrong until she stopped. I believe in this case drugs played a major role. O hlaphohetsoe joale oa bona hore ntho ena ke manyala hence her coming out, maybe she wants to restart her life drug free and guilt free. Chances are it is happening to someone else as we speak and we will never understand their reasons for doing it and why they let it continue for many years like the other woman who came to oprah after mackenzie’s story and said she left college to start a sexual relationship with her father which lasted a couple of years.
Tsoelopele

Providence, RI

#15 Mar 18, 2010
Hore ke le lle!! I think it is utterly wrong and that's it!! I'm saying this because, really, as a society we need to establish boundaries, otherwise everything will be up for grabs, and that means chaos!! I mean, o kena ka tlung, ke ntate holima ngoana, mora holima 'm'e, ntate moholo holima setloholo ... nkhono eena ha ke sa bua!

On the otherhand, yes, maybe we need to reflect back on why so much hype on sexual boundaries? Was it initially about who has a child with whom (type of offspring) and ultimately societal reproduction? Is the dog or chicken kingdom doing better than us?'Na ke ee ke bone mekoko e loana hore ho sale o le mong ka hokong!! Kee ke bone lithole le tsona li loantsa sethole se secha ka hokong ea tsona!! But once they get acquainted, they are good to share!

FOR NOW, I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHY INCEST IS WRONG, EXCEPT MY OWN SOCIALISATION CONDEMS IT, AND SO DO I!
Khosana

Johannesburg, South Africa

#16 Mar 18, 2010
Tumi wrote:
Wa tseba I once read a letter in an Agony Aunt column where a lady was saying that she lost her virginty to her father at the age of 19, and it was consensual. Her mom was aware and it was also with her consent and after sleeping with her dad, they said that she was now allowed to sleep with boyfriends but she claimed that she always enjoyed doing it with her dad more than she did with the boyfies!!! Meaning that she continued to have sex with her father, and this was without her mom's knowledge after the first time, which she claimed was to "deflower" her. Her problem was that she was now in a stable relationship but couldn't stop thinking and wanting to be with her dad?? I mean who is the victim in this case??
I think the problem comes when u think of victims and victors. Coz once u think of it that way then it means they didn't both consent to it. she knew what she was doin the first time and came back for more. If it's wrong to do it, then they're both wrong, period.
Khosana

Johannesburg, South Africa

#17 Mar 18, 2010
Tumi wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess it is just one of those things we tread to even think about! It is the subjectivity that I am questioning...I mean deep in my heart I believe it is wrong, but I can't really substantiate why!!
I mean going back to MacKenzie's story, she was high on drugs, 18, woke up and discovered that her pants were somewhere around her knees and her dad was "busy" with her, confronted him about it afterwards and called it rape, but her dad said he wasn't raping her he was "making love" to her? His own daughter? If she didn't like it why did she continue with it? Moral dilemma right there!!
And I mean there were other people who knew about it, but turned a blind eye and she also just never asked for help, was she a victim of incest or of drugs?
This thing happens so often, there are so many stories about it, of people admitting to having done it, and all they say is "I knew it was wrong but I didn't want to stop!" Why is it wrong?
Tumi, I sense that u believe it's wrong becoz u grew up bein told it's wrong. I truly believe that whoever forces themselves on other people are wrong. bein one of the people who don't just believe anythin they're told. so, if she consented to it, then she's equally wrong, if it's wrong. we all know girls at the age of 16 are sexually active and do things becoz they have feelings and act on them. consent means there's no victim in the eyes of man, but in the eyes of God they'l both burn in hell unless they change and ask for forgiveness. but if one thinks she's a victim then she feels she doesn't have to ask for forgiveness. Mo oa khotla ha a tsekisoe.
Tumi

Johannesburg, South Africa

#18 Mar 18, 2010
Wa tseba ehlile ke dumela hore incest e fosahetse like many of you, feela joale ka ha ke se ke boletse ha ke tsebe hore naa hobaneng e fosahetse.
To me the thought of a father having sex with his own child is just unimaginable, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth!! Maybe because it goes against what we have been brought up to believe or what we are used to....I mean if we say adultery is wrong we can give reasons why right? But with incest, I don't know, it's just wrong, just not done.....

Feela ha u ka sheba nalane ya marena a Lesotho o tla hlokomela hore e etsahetse ka makgetlo, ntho eno ya bona ya ho nyala into royalty, ba qeteletse ba nyala kgaitsedi tsa bona hore ebe lelapa le ile la qetella le hola ka tsela eo le hotseng ka yona mme ele ba nyalana ele dikhosana le dikgosatsana feela. Hona le moo ho kileng ha thwe morena o feng-feng ho ona ana a maholo o ile a etsetsa ausi wa hae ngwana? Ausiae? Meaning they knew exactly what they were doing le ausi eno wa hae!! I have had of mothers who have sex with their sons, ba bolemo di 16, ebe mora ha a ipuelella o re o ne a thusa mmae hobane a bona ele sono?? Ba dumellane right? Feela u tla utlwa society e beha mme molato hore naa ha ele ena ya moholo hobaneng a ne a etsisa ngwana ntho tseno!!
Tumi

Johannesburg, South Africa

#19 Mar 18, 2010
Maybe the fact that it has long lasting effects on one of the parties may render it wrong, because in most cases you find that people who have lead that life cannot go back to what we consider a normal life, their relationships fail dismally, they suffer insurmountable emotional damage....because of that choice!! Maybe.....I still don't know why it's wrong
Stjoetla

Malawi

#20 Mar 18, 2010
Tumi wrote:
After watching MacKenzi Phillips story on Oprah about having had a consensual sexual relationship with her father for over ten years I have been wondering just how common incest is and is there really anything wrong with it because as far as I can see it, it's a victimless crime.
Please comment if you have something of value to add, ha ke kope ditlhapa aseblief tog
Victims will be the kids born out of that relationship. It has been found that the genetic make-up of children born out incestuous relationship e na le mathata, oa qetellong ho bang le ntho tse kang cleft palate, weak bones and the like. Ke hore bana ba otloa ka bokhopo ba batsoali ba bona. Hape le discrimination of the society to the kids born out of a relationship thats very abnormal in the society.
Tumi

Johannesburg, South Africa

#21 Mar 18, 2010
Stjoetla wrote:
<quoted text>
Victims will be the kids born out of that relationship. It has been found that the genetic make-up of children born out incestuous relationship e na le mathata, oa qetellong ho bang le ntho tse kang cleft palate, weak bones and the like. Ke hore bana ba otloa ka bokhopo ba batsoali ba bona. Hape le discrimination of the society to the kids born out of a relationship thats very abnormal in the society.
Most of the time not always, ke teng moo genetic makeup e bang le mathata...in some cases they are born fine!! I think society just discriminates anything they can't relate to or they don't want to face or deal with.....mohlomong if we sought deep within ourselves to find out what is really wrong with all these things that we discriminate against or stigmatise we would find an answer but we don't we choose the easy way out, which is treating other people as less human....bana bau ba batho ha ba iketsa akere!!
Stjoetla

Malawi

#22 Mar 18, 2010
Teng ehleli u oa bolela Tumi, le 'na ha ke fumane ruri na hobaneng re sitoa ho e amohela as a society. Empa e le seo eleng khale re se joetsoa kapa re holisoa ho thoe ke phoso. Le teng ha u elelloa kae-kae ha ntse re ea pele tje we are droping some imortant and special principles that will separate us from the animals. Ntho tse ngata that we question tseo re ileng ra li joetsoa ke batsoali hore 'Se etse tjena..." ha u ka bona e ne e le molemong oa rona hore re se lahleheloe ke li-morals, empa li ile tsa sebelisoa hampe le ho ts'ireletsa merero eseng metle ea ba itseng,'me ea qetella e beha ka mesing merero e nepahetseng ea kholiso.

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