Years of Paralysis (and it's not over)

[Lyom]

"After months of negotiations, Lebanon has a new unity government comprising several factions but, as Natalya Antelava reports, many people there now view any government as largely irrelevant."

"The attitude is not surprising. For decades, Lebanon's politicians have done nothing but drive the country into deadlock. The country's current crisis is just the latest episode of its chronic political paralysis."

"Behind the glitz and urban sophistication of Beirut, he said, hides a truly tribal society, whose leaders are preoccupied with fighting for the interests of their communities, not the nation as a whole.
In Lebanon, he added, you first identify yourself by the sect you belong to: Sunni, Shia, Christian, Armenian or Druze. Only then are you Lebanese."

Great analysis:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_ou...

[daniel Sagherian]

To be out of deadlock and paralysis, things to resolve in Lebanon:
-Repatriation of Palestinians : Are they staying? Are they going back, or somewhere else?
-South Lebanese border : Is it in peace? Is it in war? Is it a Lebanese-only issue? Is it Arabic resistance issue? Is it an Islamic front issue?
-Of secularism and sectarianism : Is it secular, of all Lebanese being equals, and all duties, obligations, and rights equally shared? Or is it sectarian, where "some animals are more equal than others"?( note: I cannot be a President anywhere in the world : Where I'm born, where I reside currently, and where my forefathers were driven out from, they ALL forbid me such a simple chance at Presidency...).
-Of democracy and apartheid : If it is democracy, who institutionalizes the right of some Sects to withhold a larger portion at governance? If it is apartheid, how can Maronite dwindling numbers (18%) otherwise be not at the mercy of overwhelming Sunni and Shi'a populace?

[daniel Sagherian]

Lyom wrote:

"After months of negotiations, Lebanon has a new unity government comprising several factions but, as Natalya Antelava reports, many people there now view any government as largely irrelevant."
"The attitude is not surprising. For decades, Lebanon's politicians have done nothing but drive the country into deadlock. The country's current crisis is just the latest episode of its chronic political paralysis."
"Behind the glitz and urban sophistication of Beirut, he said, hides a truly tribal society, whose leaders are preoccupied with fighting for the interests of their communities, not the nation as a whole.
In Lebanon, he added, you first identify yourself by the sect you belong to: Sunni, Shia, Christian, Armenian or Druze. Only then are you Lebanese."
Great analysis:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_ou...

My first attempt to respond "was lost in translation".
Here it is in short : There is no untoward side-effect called deadlock and paralysis. It is pre-planned, and categorically and consistently executed. Food to be desirable, you need to starve people. Health to be appreciated, disease is significant. Money to be needed, you need unemployed masses. And security to be essential. you need chaos and unruliness.
This is how a legendary family called Hariri came into existence from humble beginnings. Buy everything, buy all, "put the money in your own mouth", be the best Samaritan : But at the end of the day, take back whatever the French gave to Maronites. Clash with the Shi'a, but make sure to leave all Christians out. If the Christians give the Ottoman Palestine to Jews, make sure to take back the weak link called Maronites.
What's happening in Lebanon is not haphazard deadlock: Some flee, some stay. Eventually, those who can afford to stay will take over the country.
All clashes in those countries make the Christians flock to Western embassies as refugees... This is the modern way of ethno-religious cleansing. And those who dare to resist, will have loads of petro-dollars in their Swiss accounts...

[daniel Sagherian]

Lyom wrote:

"After months of negotiations, Lebanon has a new unity government comprising several factions but, as Natalya Antelava reports, many people there now view any government as largely irrelevant."
"The attitude is not surprising. For decades, Lebanon's politicians have done nothing but drive the country into deadlock. The country's current crisis is just the latest episode of its chronic political paralysis."
"Behind the glitz and urban sophistication of Beirut, he said, hides a truly tribal society, whose leaders are preoccupied with fighting for the interests of their communities, not the nation as a whole.
In Lebanon, he added, you first identify yourself by the sect you belong to: Sunni, Shia, Christian, Armenian or Druze. Only then are you Lebanese."
Great analysis:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_ou...

Is Lebanon an Arab country? Is Lebanon a country of Arabic orientation? Is Lebanon as far away from the French option as is from the Arabic option? Is Lebanon a country that hosts the remnant Christians of the Ottoman Empire?
Why is it sooo important for Sunnis to keep the Ministry of Education for themselves? Why is it sooo important for Hariri, at the risk of dismantling the March 14 Alliance, to keep Lebanese kids' education far from the Phalangists? As Joumblatt had put it, are they making sure that Lebanese children speak "Arabic", unlike the Christians of the March 14 Alliance?
Vividly clear : It is the clash of the Western (otherwise known as the French) and the Arabic; the clash of two civilizations (Christian and Moslem).
Things are NOT at a deadlock in Lebanon; they are crystal clear, and on a bright path, for the resident majority of Lebanese. And there will come a time, that civil war will be redundant in Lebanon; there will be no more Christian-Moslem interfights...
Neither the 1958, nor the 1975 Civil War in Lebanon ended in "No winner/no loser" mentality, contrary to all lullaby analysts... And I'm not sure if there ever will be another Civil War : One of the two sides has lost too much, and cannot recover from it.
A glass of Lebanese Arak, from the lost heights of Zahle, will admit to it : SAHTEEN...

[Lyom]

daniel Sagherian wrote:

To be out of deadlock and paralysis, things to resolve in Lebanon:
-Repatriation of Palestinians : Are they staying? Are they going back, or somewhere else?
-South Lebanese border : Is it in peace? Is it in war? Is it a Lebanese-only issue? Is it Arabic resistance issue? Is it an Islamic front issue?
-Of secularism and sectarianism : Is it secular, of all Lebanese being equals, and all duties, obligations, and rights equally shared? Or is it sectarian, where "some animals are more equal than others"?( note: I cannot be a President anywhere in the world : Where I'm born, where I reside currently, and where my forefathers were driven out from, they ALL forbid me such a simple chance at Presidency...).
-Of democracy and apartheid : If it is democracy, who institutionalizes the right of some Sects to withhold a larger portion at governance? If it is apartheid, how can Maronite dwindling numbers (18%) otherwise be not at the mercy of overwhelming Sunni and Shi'a populace?

Wow. You just summed up the Lebanese problem in one post.
That is why we have been in paralysis from day one.

[Lyom]

daniel Sagherian wrote:

<quoted text>My first attempt to respond "was lost in translation".
Here it is in short : There is no untoward side-effect called deadlock and paralysis. It is pre-planned, and categorically and consistently executed. Food to be desirable, you need to starve people. Health to be appreciated, disease is significant. Money to be needed, you need unemployed masses. And security to be essential. you need chaos and unruliness.
This is how a legendary family called Hariri came into existence from humble beginnings. Buy everything, buy all, "put the money in your own mouth", be the best Samaritan : But at the end of the day, take back whatever the French gave to Maronites. Clash with the Shi'a, but make sure to leave all Christians out. If the Christians give the Ottoman Palestine to Jews, make sure to take back the weak link called Maronites.
What's happening in Lebanon is not haphazard deadlock: Some flee, some stay. Eventually, those who can afford to stay will take over the country.
All clashes in those countries make the Christians flock to Western embassies as refugees... This is the modern way of ethno-religious cleansing. And those who dare to resist, will have loads of petro-dollars in their Swiss accounts...

Although I agree with most of your post, I must disagree that we "are not in a deadlock." It may be "not haphazard" and "pre-planned" today, but I believe the root cause is (as in many other instances throughout history) the attempt by foreign powers to establish "systems of government" in an area where peoples do not seem to care about systems, or governments, except at an extremely micro level.

[Lyom]

daniel Sagherian wrote:

<quoted text>
Is Lebanon an Arab country? Is Lebanon a country of Arabic orientation? Is Lebanon as far away from the French option as is from the Arabic option? Is Lebanon a country that hosts the remnant Christians of the Ottoman Empire?
Why is it sooo important for Sunnis to keep the Ministry of Education for themselves? Why is it sooo important for Hariri, at the risk of dismantling the March 14 Alliance, to keep Lebanese kids' education far from the Phalangists? As Joumblatt had put it, are they making sure that Lebanese children speak "Arabic", unlike the Christians of the March 14 Alliance?
Vividly clear : It is the clash of the Western (otherwise known as the French) and the Arabic; the clash of two civilizations (Christian and Moslem).
Things are NOT at a deadlock in Lebanon; they are crystal clear, and on a bright path, for the resident majority of Lebanese. And there will come a time, that civil war will be redundant in Lebanon; there will be no more Christian-Moslem interfights...
Neither the 1958, nor the 1975 Civil War in Lebanon ended in "No winner/no loser" mentality, contrary to all lullaby analysts... And I'm not sure if there ever will be another Civil War : One of the two sides has lost too much, and cannot recover from it.
A glass of Lebanese Arak, from the lost heights of Zahle, will admit to it : SAHTEEN...

I'm reading this post after the previous one and we seem to agree on some descriptions of the beast. OK for the clash of Western and Arabic (for example). My quest is to understand the nature of the clash. And I believe it is less one of values than power over one's destiny (and resources?). I see worse than civil war. I see a series of smaller wars throughout all regions of the globe, between one community and another, one neighbor and another; because that is level the powers-that-be are now targeting via propaganda (commercial, materialistic, ideological and religious). All in the name of the mighty dollar, or yuen, or gold (either one, or all of 'em).

[Lyom]

Addendum to my last post (above).
I don't believe this is pre-planned.
I do believe, though, that things do not always go as the powers want it to and they react (emergency response) as they go. Actually, their pre-planned plans are going less and less as they desired, thereby the chaos.

[Lyom]

"The reason: Hezbollah's arsenal remains a divisive issue among the Lebanese, and any action by Hariri could immediately cause a crisis in his new government _ or even a renewed outbreak of the sectarian violence that tore through Beirut in spring 2008, analysts say.

"If the government moves to force Hezbollah to lay down its arms, Hezbollah will definitely resist this, something that will lead to civil unrest in the country," said Ali Hamadeh, a political analyst with the leading An-Nahar newspaper.

Instead, the Hezbollah weapons will likely remain an issue for a so-called "national dialogue." Rival Lebanese factions have been conducting such dialogue periodically the past three years. But they have so far made no progress on a defense strategy that would eventually integrate Hezbollah's weapons into the Lebanese regular armed forces."

http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.p...

[daniel Sagherian]

Lyom wrote:

"The reason: Hezbollah's arsenal remains a divisive issue among the Lebanese, and any action by Hariri could immediately cause a crisis in his new government _ or even a renewed outbreak of the sectarian violence that tore through Beirut in spring 2008, analysts say.
"If the government moves to force Hezbollah to lay down its arms, Hezbollah will definitely resist this, something that will lead to civil unrest in the country," said Ali Hamadeh, a political analyst with the leading An-Nahar newspaper.
Instead, the Hezbollah weapons will likely remain an issue for a so-called "national dialogue." Rival Lebanese factions have been conducting such dialogue periodically the past three years. But they have so far made no progress on a defense strategy that would eventually integrate Hezbollah's weapons into the Lebanese regular armed forces."
http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.p...

I disagree that Hezballah is the problem in Lebanon, or the only problem. Pre-1982, there was no Hezballah.
The clash of civilizations is the problem in Lebanon, as well as the Greater Middle East. It is just simplistic, a political maneuvering, a campaign logo, a mis-used and an over-used slogan...
The March 14 Christians abused Hezballah's status in Lebanon : As if all is well for Christian survival in Lebanon, only if those Hezballan warriors disarm!!! It's only naive, to think its better for Christians Hezballah disarms militarily. I"m not sure if its better for the U.S., or Israel, to disarm Hezballah as such, and transform northern Israel's border into an extremist Sunni regime both in Lebanon and Syria.
I firmly believe, its against Israel's survival to be bordered by only Sunnis. Mark my words : Israel has to promote the Shi'a in Lebanon, and the Alawi in Syria, rather than have Salafi Sunni extremism reign in both.
And please don't tell me that if the Shi'as fall in Lebanon, Christians will have better days. The only shield against Sunni fanaticism spread in Lebanon are the Shi'a...

In another verse, there was / is no deadlock in Lebanon : the rule was with Siniora, the election majority was with Hariri, and guidance was through Tai'f Accords : All three were/are Sunni controlled... Hariri was peacefully lying on his silky blanket for post-June-7 elections,'cause however things turn around, he has the Saudis, the Tai'f, the election-majority, Siniora's existing orders, and the U.S. blessing. HOW TO CALL THIS A DEADLOCK, when however the lady turns around, one hole is his...

[Lyom]

daniel Sagherian wrote:

<quoted text>I disagree that Hezballah is the problem in Lebanon, or the only problem. Pre-1982, there was no Hezballah.
The clash of civilizations is the problem in Lebanon, as well as the Greater Middle East.

OK for the clash of civilizations (although it wasn't a clash per se at the outset). But Hezbollah is problem in Lebanon, albeit not the only one. Look t the much praised new government walk on eggs when it's about Hezblala's weapons. Watch them compromise like weak ones. I say, integrate them fast, or crush them as fast. Show that there is a real Lebanon.

[daniel Sagherian]

Lyom wrote:

<quoted text>
OK for the clash of civilizations (although it wasn't a clash per se at the outset). But Hezbollah is problem in Lebanon, albeit not the only one. Look t the much praised new government walk on eggs when it's about Hezblala's weapons. Watch them compromise like weak ones. I say, integrate them fast, or crush them as fast. Show that there is a real Lebanon.

Read it again : Of which type of Lebanon are you talking about? Of the old Jabal-Loubnan of Maronites and Druze, which according to Joumblatt they have become the Native Indians of Lebanon? The Lebanon of children who are taught textbooks of Sunni Education Minister orientation, or the Maronite Phalangist Ministry-deprived orientation? The Lebanon of post-National Pact, where they said NO to both French and Pan-Arab formats, or the one post-Tai'f, where Lebanon was baptized an Arab country? The Lebanon of the "non-Arabic speaking" Phalangists and Quwwats of March 14, or the "Arabic" speaking front of Joumblatt and Hariri of March 14?
My friend, don't let genie loose, don't open Pandora's box. I'm not in defense of any group. But all I'm saying, demilitarizing Hezballah today solves some OTHER issues, but NOT the issues of what is Lebanon, who's is Lebanon... Don't hide yourself behind your finger : Is it Arabic? Is it Muslim? Is it Sunni? Is it Shi'a?
But no matter what it is, Maronites and the Druze resemble the status of native Americans in the USA! So if you went to the polls on June 7 based on the premise that militarized Hezballah was the source (albeit the only source for March 14 Christians) of ALL evil in Lebanon, you ain't seen nothing yet!!! The whole country got categorically and systematically Sunnified, on premises of confronting Hezballah... and LEIK WEIN BAA'DON!!!

[daniel Sagherian]

Lyom wrote:

<quoted text>
OK for the clash of civilizations (although it wasn't a clash per se at the outset). But Hezbollah is problem in Lebanon, albeit not the only one. Look t the much praised new government walk on eggs when it's about Hezblala's weapons. Watch them compromise like weak ones. I say, integrate them fast, or crush them as fast. Show that there is a real Lebanon.

You cannot campaign for Lebanon based only on Hezballah pretext. Whether you think for or against militarized Hezballah, whether Hezballah gets demilitarized or not, whether that demilitarization is achieved thru internal convictions or imposed by external mights... YOU STILL HAVE TO DEFINE WHICH LEBANON YOU ARE LOOKING FOR!!!
Pre-1948, Pre-1967, Pre-1958, Pre-1967, Pre-1975, Pre-1982, Pre-1990...???? The Lebanon of 1943? The Lebanon of Maronites/Druze? The Lebanon of PLO? The Lebanon of Shi'ite masses? The Lebanon of Petro-dollar Sunnis??? The Lebanon where a Phalangist could take ANY Ministerial post? The Lebanon where a Phalangist can be denied EVEV the Ministry of Education post? The Lebanon of Martyr's Square in downtown, or the Jaame'h El-Amine in downtown????
Wake up and smell the coffee at least, even if you can't change it back anymore...

[Lyom]

daniel Sagherian wrote:

<quoted text>
YOU STILL HAVE TO DEFINE WHICH LEBANON YOU ARE LOOKING FOR!!!
Pre-1948, Pre-1967, Pre-1958, Pre-1967, Pre-1975, Pre-1982, Pre-1990...???? The Lebanon of 1943? The Lebanon of Maronites/Druze? The Lebanon of PLO? The Lebanon of Shi'ite masses? The Lebanon of Petro-dollar Sunnis??? The Lebanon where a Phalangist could take ANY Ministerial post? The Lebanon where a Phalangist can be denied EVEV the Ministry of Education post? The Lebanon of Martyr's Square in downtown, or the Jaame'h El-Amine in downtown????
Wake up and smell the coffee at least, even if you can't change it back anymore...

I am not sure why you assume the Lebanon "I" am looking for is one that exists or has existed. The Lebanon I am looking for is one I have a vision of, and a taste of because I lived it in parallel worlds during all those periods. The Lebanon I am looking for is not based on the political, religious or economic realities in the field. Call me an idealist, I reserve the right to refuse what you've been referring to as "realities". I think they're chimera, on our way to the reality we want to create. It might not happen during my lifetime in this plane, but I sure will contribute all I can so the vision of peace can be sustained.

I hope you regain faith in what one can do.