JasSa

Saga, Japan

#23 Apr 24, 2008
Togo wrote:
Taht's why Maori and Japanese are similar in their outlook on the world.
Japanese = Taiwanese + Ainu
Maori = Malay + Papuan
How so?
Togo

Auckland, New Zealand

#24 Apr 26, 2008
The native Taiwanese and the Malay of Malaya and the East Indies are the same people.
The first wave of human beings out of Africa went east.
One branch went north and their descendants are the Ainu, Gilyak and Kamchadal.
The other branch went south and their descendants are the Papuans and Australian aborigines.
The northern group have pale skins because of the high latitude but their features are similar to the Australians and Papuans.
jmNZ

Auckland, New Zealand

#25 May 25, 2008
Togo's got it right. That's why the Maori here feel much affinity with Japanese.
Togo

Ohaupo, New Zealand

#26 Jun 7, 2008
Japanese don't hate Ainu. We now realize that the Japanese are a mixture of the Yamato (who most people think of as the only Japanese) and the Ainu.
Over the years Yamato and Azuma (land of the Ainu in Honshu) fought bitterly but the races became inextricably mixed with many samurai and daimyo being racially Ainu.

“Sayonara Japan:)”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#27 Jun 7, 2008
Jomon + Yayoi = Japanese :)
http://forum.japantoday.com/viewtopic.php...
Togo

Greymouth, New Zealand

#28 Jul 4, 2008
Ainu are now equal to Yamato as partners of the Japanese nation
jmNZ

Auckland, New Zealand

#29 Aug 1, 2008
JaSan wrote:
<quoted text>Could you explain with sources how these mixture of East Indies Malay and Papuan featured people exsist in Okinawa and southern parts of Kyushu Japan?
First wave of humans that went east out of Africa (from Ethiopia via the Yemen and India to the East Indies) split into a southern group, the Australians and Papuans, and a northern group of whom only the Ainu remain.
A few 'rests' of this first wave still survive: the Kusunda of Nepal, the Kalto of southern India, the Andaman Islanders, the East Timorese and Ternatese of Halmahera.

The second wave out of Ethiopia went south (the Namibians) and later a branch went east - the Chinese, Malay, Tibetans, Mongols, Manchus, Koreans, Gilyak, Kamchadal, Amerindians, Athabaskans, Eskimos, Vietnamese, Siamese and Meo. They exploded out of the area around Chungking: Amerindians etc into the Americas, Manchus and Mongols into Siberia, Siamese and Meo into Indochina and Hainan, Malays to Taiwan from where they spread north through Ryukyu to Yamato and south through the Philippines and the rest of the East Indies, eating all of the first wave they encountered. Only Andaman, East Timor and Ternate are left of them. By the time they got to Papua they decided that making love was better than making war and the vigorous hybrid that resulted were the ancestors of the Polynesians.

You'll find it all in Luigi Cavalli-Sforza "Genes, Peoples and Languages", 2001
Joe

New Zealand

#30 Sep 17, 2010
Wow!
Really interesting history ...
jmNZ

New Zealand

#31 Jan 5, 2011
JaSan wrote:
<quoted text>Could you explain with sources how these mixture of East Indies Malay and Papuan featured people exsist in Okinawa and southern parts of Kyushu Japan?
I didn't. Jomon implied it. I think he's wrong.
Polynesians are Malay + Papuan.
Ainu are ancient relatives of Australians or Papuans.
Yayoi (Yamato) Japanese are most likely Taiwanese + Korean.
Modern Japan is the union of Yayoi (Yamato) and Jomon (Azuma).
See Luigi Cavalli-Sforza, Genes, Peoples and Languages.
Ainu

Tokyo, Japan

#32 May 30, 2013
Check pics of Hideo Akibe and Alexei Nakamura. They completely look Caucasian. Taiwan is very far from Japan. Ainu belong to Hokkaido, Kuril and Sakhalin (Russia) now.
Kureno san

Jakarta, Indonesia

#33 Jun 2, 2013
Ardit wrote:
<quoted text>
So when were the Ainu there? And when were Japanese there?
Sorry I am just really curious!
i ever heard Ainu still lives in small villages far from city ,but i'm not sure
UNobserver

Vienna, Austria

#35 Jun 25, 2013
Peace treaty with Japan stripped Japan of all territories gained following the adoption of their imperialist constitution of 1890.
This means that Japan proper comprises the four main islands (Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu & Shikoku) plus Ryukyu retto (Loochoo Is) and Kuriru retto (Kuril Is).
Russia didn't sign the peace treaty and retain Kuriru. This should be a home for the Ainu.
Ainu

Tokyo, Japan

#36 Jun 26, 2013
UNobserver wrote:
Peace treaty with Japan stripped Japan of all territories gained following the adoption of their imperialist constitution of 1890.
This means that Japan proper comprises the four main islands (Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu & Shikoku) plus Ryukyu retto (Loochoo Is) and Kuriru retto (Kuril Is).
Russia didn't sign the peace treaty and retain Kuriru. This should be a home for the Ainu.
Exactly. Soviet broke a non-aggression treaty and stole Kuril and Sakhalin. Soviet didn't join San francisco in 1951, and that's why the successor state Russia has no right to occupy both islands.

Now both Japan and Russia use Ainu living in each countries and try to justify their occupation. Ainu are a direct descendant of 1st Japanese Jomon even if we are now mix with Russian or Asian.

We learn slant eyed average Japanese are Sino-Korean descendants. We still have Jomon/Ainu Japanese. And Japan is a land of Jomon/Ainu not Asian! This is Jomon singer Ken Hirai:



Jomon/Ainu 4ever!!!
UN Observer

Vienna, Austria

#37 Jun 30, 2013
Russia took back Sakhalin which Japan had taken from it in 1905. This was one of the imperialist conquests of Japan following their adoption of the 1890 constitution.
The Peace Treaty of 1951 stated that Japan had to give up all conquests acquired under this constitution of greed and aggression.
Therefore, Sakhalin was rightly returned to the aboriginal citizens of the Soviet Union.
The Kuril Islands are quite different and are an integral part of Japan, peacefully so recognized by Russia even before 1890. Technically, they are the Soviet Occupation Zone of Japan, analogous to the Soviet Occupation Zone of Germany, the former DDR (East Germany).
Incidentally, the natives of most of Sakhalin are the Gilyak (Nivx). Ainu occupied only that part of Sakhalin south of 48N.
Ainu

Japan

#38 Jul 1, 2013
Hokkaido, Kuril and Sakhalin historically belong to Ainu. Japan and Russia had kept a treaty in 1855 for the first time. It said southern Kuril belonged to Japan, northern Kuril belonged to Russia and Sakhalin belonged to both Japan and Russia.

However, Japan and Russia had exchaged Kuril and Sakhalin in 1875. Kuril belonged to Japan and Sakhalin belonged to Russia. In 1905, Japan had won Russo-Japanese war and taken the south half of Sakhalin until Soviet invasion in 1945.

Sakhalin was full of various kind of races. Not only Nivkh but also Evenki, Yakut, Uilta, Russian, Japanese, Ainu etc were living there. My grandfather was born in Toyohara, Karafuto (Sakhalin) and immigrated to Hokkaido after Siberian work by Stalin.

Japan is a land of Jomon/Ainu. We were recognized as an indigenous people of Japan on June 6th in 2008. We were discriminated for a long time because of our looks and culture, but slant eyed Japanese so-called Yayoi can't no longer justify their own occupation.

Again, Japan is a land of Jomon/Ainu, not Asian country such as China or Korea. That's why only Japan could be a civilized power standing equally with USA and Europe at that time.
UN Observer

Vienna, Austria

#40 Jul 1, 2013
Can you still speak Ainu?
Ainu

Tokyo, Japan

#41 Jul 2, 2013
UN Observer wrote:
Can you still speak Ainu?
Unfortunately, not. According to wikipedia, only 10 people can speak. Kayano Shigeru, Ainu first politician, tried to protect Ainu language, but actually, almost all Ainu speak Japanese or Russian. In family, we are not even known the fact we are Ainu because of avoiding a discrimination.

However, you get to know what you are because different features appears. Hairly, mascular body, deep-set eyed, pale skin, etc everybody admits you are not ordinally Japanese. Japanese textbook says our ancestors are Jomon and Yayoi, but it's hard to accept a difference in such a homogenous society like Japan.

Japanese media sometimes introduces non-Asian looking Japanese talents to educate Japanese. Ken Hirai is well known for Jomon singer. His parents are Japanese and he has no foreign blood. But even he is doubted if he is really Japanese:

UN Observer

Vienna, Austria

#42 Jul 4, 2013
Ainu wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, not. According to wikipedia, only 10 people can speak. Kayano Shigeru, Ainu first politician, tried to protect Ainu language, but actually, almost all Ainu speak Japanese or Russian. In family, we are not even known the fact we are Ainu because of avoiding a discrimination.
However, you get to know what you are because different features appears. Hairly, mascular body, deep-set eyed, pale skin, etc everybody admits you are not ordinally Japanese. Japanese textbook says our ancestors are Jomon and Yayoi, but it's hard to accept a difference in such a homogenous society like Japan.
Japanese media sometimes introduces non-Asian looking Japanese talents to educate Japanese. Ken Hirai is well known for Jomon singer. His parents are Japanese and he has no foreign blood. But even he is doubted if he is really Japanese:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =LfA9lDbH7msXX
You should set up schools and, eventually, a university where Ainu is taught. The only way to keep a language alive is for children to learn it as their mother tongue. The "language nests" (kindergartens) of the Maori in New Zealand are a good example of this. So start with Ainu language only kindergartens in a bit of Azuma or Hokkaido where the ten speakers still live.
With only ten speakers of Ainu left, your situation is urgent.
Ainu

Tokyo, Japan

#43 Jul 5, 2013
UN Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
You should set up schools and, eventually, a university where Ainu is taught. The only way to keep a language alive is for children to learn it as their mother tongue. The "language nests" (kindergartens) of the Maori in New Zealand are a good example of this. So start with Ainu language only kindergartens in a bit of Azuma or Hokkaido where the ten speakers still live.
With only ten speakers of Ainu left, your situation is urgent.
Of course, we have a campaign to protect Ainu language and culture. Almost all town names in Hokkaido originated from Ainu language. Hokkaido University is well known for Ainu study, but they are not supported among Ainu because they stole Ainu bones and still don't give back. Unfortunately, Ainu is still a taboo in Japan because average Yayoi Japanese can't justify their own occupation.

However, Ainu tells where Japanese came from. It also tells how Japanese are different from Chinese, Korean and the other Asians. Growing inernet, Japanese start to wake up our own identity, so I'm sure Japanese will protect Ainu culture seriously in the future.
UN Observer

Vienna, Austria

#44 Jul 5, 2013
Ainu wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, we have a campaign to protect Ainu language and culture. Almost all town names in Hokkaido originated from Ainu language. Hokkaido University is well known for Ainu study, but they are not supported among Ainu because they stole Ainu bones and still don't give back. Unfortunately, Ainu is still a taboo in Japan because average Yayoi Japanese can't justify their own occupation.
However, Ainu tells where Japanese came from. It also tells how Japanese are different from Chinese, Korean and the other Asians. Growing inernet, Japanese start to wake up our own identity, so I'm sure Japanese will protect Ainu culture seriously in the future.
I am surprised that Ainu is still tabu in Japan. Yayoi+Jomon is the source of the hybrid vigour that made the strength of modern Japan.
And many daimyo and samurai - and even some emperors - were more Azuma (Ainu) than Yamato.

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