Difference Between Japanese And Western Women *****

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The Reporter

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Oct 29, 2010
 

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Discussion Taken From "How To Talk Japanese Women" ( http://www.topix.com/forum/world/japan/TD2LCE ...), as the cultural difference are very relevant and deserve its own topic.

Note- Use this one and not the other thread with same name. Reformatted to look more presentable

Quoted from Engelbert

"Hmm I don't think anybody made out that western women are perfect ,but exactly what are the pluses with Japanese women?

Lets see minuses:

1. No concept of right or wrong(the western right or wrong)

2. Cold to the point of lacking any empathy(which is a part of Japanese culture).

3. Discouraged from educating or advancing themselves as intelligence is not feminine(hence the high proportion of airheads).

4. Encouraged to be (or at least act)immature (I think that might explain the weird high pitched voices)

5. The intense materialism (japan spends. the most on designer goods a year of any country)most of the women won't be seen dead without a LV or Prada or Guicci or whatever handbag.

6. The ah "free spirited" attitude of the younger generation of women to sex(I'm not saying western women are angels far from it but enjoi kosai is gross and attitude it only counts as cheating if my boyfriend finds out is just wrong).

7. Apart from the cultural dived to overcome with things like humor and attitude to different things in life.

I'm not saying there all like this and I know I've asked this before exactly what is the pluses of being in a relationship with a Japanese(apart from wanting a submissive housewife like some on this thread)"
The Reporter

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Oct 29, 2010
 

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The Reporter-

Good Points of Japanese Women:

1. Many Japanese women can be very determined to please their man and be his number 1.

That his woman is willing to go out for him, is very refreshing to many Western men. However, they should understand that often the Japanese women are attracted to the idea or situation of being with him, more than him. That is, he is a good looking banker of high social value. As long as that remains constant, she will do what she perceives is necessary to maintain her position with him. If say he losses his job or some better option comes in, she may give some lame excuses and split. The transition between the 2 extremes can appear seamless. He can be amazed at how good she treated him and then how badly/coldly she did him too.

This can give the appearance of submissiveness. But actually many Japanese are often masochistic and their submissiveness an illusion (will explain in another post).

In contrast, many Western women can have a lazier attitude or seemingly indifferent attitude. It can be like you never got her best, but then again maybe not her worse either.

2. Many Japanese women are very trainable, especially early in the relationship. However, many of them can be become set in their ways later (months and years later) and lack adaptability.

In contrast, many Western women have a more defiant and confrontational attitude.

"Trainability", can make a crucial difference in the satisfaction of entering a long term relationship with a particular woman.

This can relate to sex, cooking, taking care of the home, behavior, etc...

Can give the appearance of submissiveness.

3. Exotic attraction

There is no getting around that contrast and differences can be attractive. Some men prefer something different, as opposed to the ordinary, usual, or boring. Interracial or international relationships can provide extra excitement, mystery, or interest.

4. Ambition and motivation to get ahead in life. Respect for the value of education.

This can be attractive in the sense that the Japanese wife helps maintain a certain desired standard of living. She may help uphold a certain public image, lifestyle in the home, or sacrifice to meet some particular goal.

Often will want/push the children to go to college or be successful. Many Japanese women are college educated.

5. Maintenance of looks, body, and health.

Many Japanese women age very well. Less likely to get fat, even after having 2 kids, and less likely to get wrinkles. There are Japanese women that are 40 and look almost 25.

Oddly, at least for the older generation, all bets are off after many Japanese women reach 60. Though 50 can be that cracking point to. Often the cuteness factor seems to fail after that point.

In contrast there are various Western women that all bets are off after they reach 30 (can depend on race) or turn blimp after the 1st child. Obviously it depends on the Western woman, as some can age very well and keep their looks into the 40s, 50s...

6. Many Japanese women are very comfortable with their femininity.

Many Japanese women are fine with being a woman and enjoy it. This can reflect in how she dresses, her mannerism, posture, actions, and/or thinking.

While in contrast, many Western women can give the impression they don't want to be women, dress and/or act mannish, or are not comfortable with being feminine.

7. Many Japanese women prefer to solve disputes amicably or without violence.

This can have the downside of her all of the sudden disappearing or leaving without telling you why. She may hide how she feels or not say how she feel.

However the upside of this way is you can get less arguments or physical confrontations. Many Western women are of the bad habit of even provoking fights, being loud, argumentative, rude, or will even drag it down to the level of a fist fight (including in front of kids).

Relationships with Japanese women can, on average but not always, be a bit more peaceful and tranquil.
The Reporter

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Oct 29, 2010
 

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Quoted from Jon:

I dont see how a westerner would get a submissive j wife (I didnt), because to a large extent the ones who are interested in being with a westerner are more assertive and going against the grain, or fighting against the negative comments about that. See the latest crap movie "My Darling is a foreigner" in which the mother and father are dead against the woman marrying the "Foreigner" (ie white guy), even though he speaks Japanese, acts Japanese and lives in Japan! They re damn lucky to be getting that, in my opinion. But gaijin is forever a gaijin, regardless.

The (so so looking, although of course people say she is "Kawaii", so do us a favor and marry her, gaijin) chick has to fight to marry the guy in the movie. She only speaks Japanese.

So, you re going to get an assertive chick who speaks English or an assertive chick who expects you to speak Japanese, or BE Japanese.

Or, you ll get one who will act passive/submissive in the early stages, and then suddenly explode. Or disappear.
This happens at my office all the time. Some quiet secretary uncomplainingly takes all the work from another, more assertive secretary. She is annoyingly passive, even to the point of "excuse me, may I eat/live now?" politeness.
Then finally, she cannot silently "gaman" anymore and quits.

And so, the illusion of submissiveness is shattered in a day.

I d say the only really submissive ones are those with an SM fetish (and even then it might be reverse roleplay from what they re really like in their daily lives).

Part 2

Basically Japan proves post modernist theories on how modern (capitalist, ie money based) relationships are between IMAGES, not PEOPLE. Debord, Marx and Baudrillard would no doubt be interested.

I ve been said I look like Tom Cruise, Al Pacino, Keanu Reeves and any number of movie stars, even the Chinese one, John Lone.
Similarly, westerners are often attracted to the IMAGE of Japan and are in denial for a long time when what they thought and what seems to be the reality do not match up.

In the west there is=I hope-more of a search for a "partner", a love match who "loves me for the person I am". These ideas arent so deep routed in more tradtional Asian cultures, and Japan is actually one of the most traditional, despite its western toys and trappings.

For those interested in theories (I really think of a J chick and her Louis Vuitton bag whenever I read "Comodity fetish"):

He (Debord) rejected as the twin faces of the same problem both capitalism of the West and the statism of the Eastern bloc. Alienation, Debord postulated, could be accounted for by the invasive forces of the 'spectacle'- "a social relation between people that is mediated by images".

Debord's analysis developed the notions of "reification" and "fetishism of the commodity" pioneered by Karl Marx and Georg Lukács. This analysis probed the historical, economic and psychological roots of 'the media'.

Central to this school of thought was the claim that alienation is more than an emotive description or an aspect of individual psychology: rather, it is a consequence of the mercantile form of social organization which has reached its climax in capitalism.
The Reporter

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Oct 29, 2010
 

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Quoted From engelbert:

Well 1s. seems iffy to me as fakeness(as you yourself pointed)It is inherent in the culture ,as is subservience to men I would argue western women are a more real (if indifferent and lazier)kind of women.I've heard a lot of men say their wife changed drastically after marriage

2."Trainabilty" makes you sound like your talking about a dog
i think I'd want someone confrontational(not argumentative thats not good either)over someone who does as their told , cause they have been brainwashed by their culture.Which is I suppose my personal opinion.

3.fair enough everyone to their own.

4.Also not sure about as many if not most still want to be housewifes and as for many are college educated same goes for western women particularly american women.

5.Yes they do age well ,what you said about western women goes for men too ,my mom spent about a long ,long time trying to get him to lose weight in the end she gave up.
Still not convinced of the appeal since the main one 1 is often fake or till they reel them in,anyhow as I'm not a man perhaps their appeal will always be lost on me.In my experience there largly shallow materialistic and sorry to say slutty airheads

6.Funny I know so many men who wont date "girly girls" because they say they come across as high maintainence or bimboish .
I suppose western women do dress manlier to Japanese women but there uniform is miniskirt high heels.

7. I think you mean drama addicts(not sure about the violence),well that be a problem with women I see it as a sign of immaturity
something they grow out off.
The Reporter

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Oct 29, 2010
 

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From The Reporter @Engelbert

It is my opinion that overall, Japanese and Western women are DIFFERENT, but EQUAL.

If you will notice in my response, it is very "plus and minus". A person may score more points for either of the nationalities or for a particular woman. Depending on the preference of the guy, the Japanese or Western woman could win that particular point. Though obviously such things are very subjective.

engelbert wrote:
Well 1s. seems iffy to me as fakeness(as you yourself pointed)It is inherent in the culture ,as is subservience to men I would argue western women are a more real (if indifferent and lazier)kind of women.I've heard a lot of men say their wife changed drastically after marriage

Japanese are not truly submissive or subservient in the way in which many Western thinks. Japanese women may play a role in EXCHANGE for the man taking care of them (job, housewife, social status, etc...) or because they want something from that person (looks, sex, popularity, money, etc...).

Many Japanese women can just as easily go from smiling in your face or even "being on her knees" before you to a frown, cold shoulder, or tell you to "Frack off"(though perhaps politely and in a Japanese way).

Western Women are often not any more "real" in this context and can behave a certain way or be fake when they are after something.

The difference often being that Japanese women can do a much better acting job OR TRULY go all out to please at a much higher level on average than their Western counterparts.

Like any acting job, some actors are of poor skill, while others give a breathtaking and emotionally moving performance. Various Japanese women can break the line between acting to becoming what they are portraying. Like literally lose herself in the role she is playing or literally become what she choose to portray with nearly no indication of fakeness. And sometimes, the Japanese women is not acting, but IS or HAS BECOME what she portrays. You have to almost experience it, to understand it.

After Marriage And Masochistic, But Not Submissive

Many Japanese women change after marriage, because they have achieved their goal. They got their man AND ELIMINATED any COMPETITION from other women. This can be the point that many Western men realize that many Japanese women are NOT submissive or subservient. This is when she takes on a new role or exerts her power, which by the way, might be fine if its in a team orientated way (it depends). Japanese women are often instead, masochistic, and endured to achieve their goal or because of the difference in power in the relationship. Remember, that a WIFE, has more power than a girlfriend.

engelbert wrote:
2."Trainabilty" makes you sound like your talking about a dog
i think I'd want someone confrontational(not argumentative thats not good either)over someone who does as their told , cause they have been brainwashed by their culture.Which is I suppose my personal opinion.

"Trainability", can reflect putting together a relationship in the way you wish it to be, thus it would be more desirable than having a relationship that is not the way you like. And in this, Japanese women might have an advantage, at the beginning of a relationship.

As I mentioned, this may go away in later years or Japanese women can have problems with adapting to new circumstances. I've seen many Japanese get set, as if they couldn't change their programming. Which is a bit odd, as in the beginning, they were very receptive to change and malleable.

The key about confrontation with Western women, is HOW she does it. Does she bring up issues calmly to be discussed or does she do in a negative argumentative, sarcastic, or bashing way?

Western women that politely and calmly bring up issues and addressing things DIRECTLY directly can be VERY beneficial to the TEAM versus the common Japanese style of HIDING things or forcing her man to DIG them out or try to read her mind.

Since: Sep 10

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Oct 29, 2010
 

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The Reporter wrote:
@Engelbert
It is my opinion that overall, Japanese and Western women are DIFFERENT, but EQUAL.
<quoted text>
Japanese are not truly submissive or subservient in the way in which many Western thinks. Japanese women may play a role in EXCHANGE for the man taking care of them (job, housewife, social status, etc...) or because they want something from that person (looks, sex, popularity, money, etc...).
Many Japanese women can just as easily go from smiling in your face or even "being on her knees" before you to a frown, cold shoulder, or tell you to "Frack off"(though perhaps politely and in a Japanese way).
Western Women are often not any more "real" in this context and can behave a certain way or be fake when they are after something.
The difference often being that Japanese women can do a much better acting job OR TRULY go all out to please at a much higher level on average than their Western counterparts.

I'd still argue they are less fake than japanese women as our culture does not encourage it,nor as manipulative also encouraged as it is impolite to directly ask a man anything or anyone else for that matter (I'm not saying they can't be just not as much ,nor would they ever take it to the extreme level japanese women do i.e marrying for money then dumping him when money supple suddenly stops)At the very least if they are being fake you might catch on to what there doing,.As for subbmiseness I'd also still argue they are (more so than western women at least) it also goes deep in the culture while a lot of that might also be fake(tataemae) till they get what they want(i.e a husband),they are in the same way a lot of foreign women are there just not used to men helping around the house ,or voicing there opinions as strongly.God the japanese make my brain hurt...
Readmyopinion

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Nov 26, 2010
 

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You all are funny. And I hope you are all doing this for a laugh, because if any of you were serious about the claims you were making, I would say:

As somebody who is Japanese and have lived in Japan and is engaged to a Japanese woman (from Japan), I am offended by everybody's vulgarity, prejudices, and ignorance of the Japanese culture.

I am writing, because there are probably many people who have not had a myriad of foreign exchange opportunities who are reading everybody's posts and foolishly believing half the things you all say.

Everyone is actually quite different in Japan. To say Japanese women are more "trainable", less willing to be educated, subservient, or the claim that Japanese women are usually characterized as the type who marry only for money are not only logically fallacious (the generalization fallacy), but rather offensive and only demonstrates a lack of critical thought.

Some Japanese people are extrovert, and some are very introvert. Some Japanese people like hugging friends, while some Japanese people are not into hugging. Some people are manipulative, and some are easily manipulated. Some are neither. Some Japanese people don't say their true feelings, and some cannot stop from speaking their mind-- I've known many of both in Japan.

There is a Japanese proverb:&#20117;&#1239 8;&#20013;&#12398; &#34521;&#22823;&# 28023;&#12434;&#30693; &#12425;&#12378;.
It means that people are generally satisfied to judge by their own narrow experiences and yet never truly know what the world is like outside of their own little bubble. I doubt any of you have ever even been in a relationship with a Japanese woman yet you comment on this page. Haha.

My advice to the reader is: Learn people on an individual level. Don't go out of your way to get into a relationship with a Japanese woman just because she's Japanese or Asian-- you might find someone who is just as shallow as you in this scenario. You love somebody, because you just do regardless of race. Race is merely a social construct-- not a tangible thing that can be objectified. A person's personality and upbringing, though dependent on environment and cultural customs/traditions, is also dependent on a myriad of other factors-- socio-economics, friends, experiences, etc.
Readmyopinion

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Nov 26, 2010
 

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On another note-- how is my girl who is from Osaka specifically different from other American woman I personally know? That's a question I can answer.

She's more beautiful than any one I know. She's intelligent; not timid yet not overly confident; very charismatic and extroverted; has a cute way of speaking-- quite cute mannerisms and habits; and she has this adorable way of sleeping like she's a baby. She knows that one way (of many ways) to my heart is through my stomach-- she knows countless recipes and all her recipes are bangin'(delicious). We take turns on cooking. She's teaching me how to cook. It's pretty fun. She's about 110 pounds of small thin beautiful goodness, and yet she can take alcohol shots like the toughest men I know. Jack Daniels is her favorite.

Oh, and she's amazing at video games and always very fun to be around.

At her worst moments, when I'm in "trouble" and we're about to quarrel, she'll make this irritated yet irresistible face. She can never hold any thing in-- she always speaks her mind in an honest manner. She is a horrible liar-- and I call her bluffs in card games like poker easily. She could not lie about anything if her life depended on it. If I ask her if a shirt looks good on me, she will not hesitate to laugh at me if it's ridiculous, or compliment me if it's nice.

And I don't know anyone like my baby. And that's why I am in love with this woman who so happens to be as Japanese as one can get.
The Reporter

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Nov 26, 2010
 

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@Readmyopinion

This is an intercultural/cross-cultural perspective. What you appear to be failing to realize is CULTURES CAN be DIFFERENT and people in different cultures can behave differently on average.

The other problem you appear to be having is attempting to negate the opinions of others, because they make you feel uncomfortable or are different from your own.

People of your thinking or such thinking would have the tendency to agree or totally be fine with another Japanese person that gave their assessment on American or French culture.

However, if a French or American gave their assessment on Japanese culture, you would all of the sudden be offended or object to it. This is a DOUBLE-STANDARD and/or hypocrisy.

For your personal intellectual growth, you might be better off realizing that people have different points of view and opinions, that will not agree with yours. In a cross-cultural exchange, you might learn a thing or two about how people see aspects of your culture.

The opinions presented here come from people with YEARS of EXPERIENCE IN Japan. This includes HUNDREDS OF RELATIONSHIPS with Japanese. This is a true opinion and assessment, not a quickly formulated stereotype.

You can jump up and down with anger of expressed opinions, but that is not going to invalidate people of 10 years, 15 years, etc... experience IN Japan.

YES, not all Japanese are the same, and there are differences. HOWEVER there are AVERAGES and TRENDS within the group, which can give a representative picture of how it is to interact with them on average. There can also be significant cultural differences, that can be helpful to LEARN in cross-cultural exchanges.

Finally, people have different experiences. It is not for you to dictate what the experiences or opinions of OTHER people should be. You are not their personal dictator with this type of power to stamp approval on what should or shouldn't be said.

The best thing that can come from this, is learning and realizing there are different perspectives.
Readmyopinionaga in

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#10
Nov 26, 2010
 
The last point is with regards to being fake or having some higher potential of becoming a dishonest actor as you suggest. On what grounds, do you base this accusation? I'm sorry if you have possibly had a bad experience with certain people in Japan, but this is not true. What's more likely is there is a cultural communication difference, and you are not on the same wave length. What you think is "real" might not be how certain people define "real". What is real?
For your own personal growth, the best thing you can learn from this is the realization that while there are different perspectives, people may be entitled to their own opinion and prejudices, but they are not entitled to their own facts. I hope in the future you show some respect with women in the world and try not to make blanket accusations that are characterized by generalization fallacies.
Are you ready for an academic and sensitive discussion of real societal, economic, and cultural differences between the the West and Japan? Are you ready for a real discussion on gender roles within the Japanese society and Western society? Get back to me when you actually can cite sources. I beg other people disregard what you say if it is not backed by actual data.
1. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_att... AND http://www.nationmaster.com/red/country/ja-ja...
2. http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.p...
3. http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/nenkan/143...
4. http://sangecon.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/savi...
5. http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/economics/j...
Readmyopinionaga in

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Nov 26, 2010
 
Ah, the above post is the last part of this:

The only correct observation you have made is that my opinion does quite differ from the people in the forum. How is this relevant? Everybody's opinion is different. However, it is not my contemptuous expression that invalidates the words of people in this forum with the possible relationship experience of 10 years, 15 years, 100 years etc-- it is their own lack of logic and reasoning, prejudices, and uneducated opinions that invalidate what they have written. You are already starting off with invalid logic-- an argument from authority that is irrelevant.

Did you or anybody in this forum have a hundred ex girlfriends? The number of ex girlfriends or current girlfriends does not matter. Because what you believe as an average trend is actually only as good as your own personal observations, perspective, and flawed reasoning and not even based on actual data.

I have years of experience. You know not how many relationships I have had in my many years in Japan, nor how long I have actually lived in Japan-- and I have lived there quite a long time and I have had long term relationships there with each girl being very different and unique. But that's not relevant, and it would not be relevant for anyone else in this forum.

This is what was said about the minuses of a relationship with Japanese women, and I've heard many Westerners say this to me. Tell me why I shouldn't be offended by this:
-Discouraged from educating or advancing themselves as intelligence is not feminine(hence the high proportion of airheads).
-Encouraged to be immature
-intense materialism where you think most of the women won't be seen dead without an expensive handbag.
- The Reporter stating "I'd still argue they are less fake than Japanese women as our culture does not encourage it,nor as manipulative also encouraged as it is impolite to directly ask a man anything or anyone else for that matter" (Wow. I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, but please speak in English.)

Do you really think these are objective average trends?
Let's speak trends, and let's start with education. I'll denote by numbered citation.

According to (*1), 34% of the Japanese people in Japan graduated the University level. That's quite impressive, since especially in the United States of America only 27% have graduated the University level with a bachelors.(2)
According to Japan’s national educational statistic handbook (3), 40% of those enrolled at the University level are women— a significant statistic that should at the very least require people in this forum to respect Japanese women and not infer that they are somehow unintelligent and sub-human "airheads" who do not value education.

On the subject of materialism. There are many economic issues in Japan, and some are quite opposite to many problems facing the West-- they save more money than they spend. Japanese households have saved an accumulation of $15 trillion dollars, which is more than the GDP of the United States of America.(4). Recently the average Japanese citizen have not been buying those luxurious items that citizens of countries purchase in a successful economy. Rather they are saving, penny pinching, and it's causing a lack of currency flow within the nation. Ironically, saving is what's causing their government to get into debt. Average citizens of Japan are very reluctant about the future and want to insure their survival in tough times to come. Of course, the Japanese have been saving less recently, since their incomes have decreased on average. However, consumer spending actually accounts for still a low portion of their gross domestic product (5). In this sense, though I hate the blanket term "materialistic", they do consume less than their Western counterparts. They are less materialistic on average than the Western world in this sense-- and it's causing them economic trouble.
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#12
Nov 26, 2010
 
Tell me if you don't see my citations.
The Reporter

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Dec 1, 2010
 

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@Readmyopinion

You appear to fail to even know what an opinion is and are simply being disruptive because an opinion has been posted that you don't like. Are you so childish that you can't handle a difference of opinion or criticism about a culture???

That you have entered a relationship with 1 Japanese woman from Osaka, IN CALIFORNIA, and that relationship is temporarily OK doesn't QUANTIFY your level of experience with Japanese IN JAPAN.

It seems you may be attempting to cover your lack of experience and direct knowledge with Japanese women, by using statistical data inappropriately.

Myself and John have stated we have had relationships with HUNDREDS of Japanese women IN JAPAN. Our experience is more than enough to formulate a relevant opinion. And I have friends who have also dated dozens to hundreds of Japanese women, in Japan, and with whom we have long discussions on the topic.

You, on the other hand, are clearly attempting to be deceptive and misuse statistical data.

"34% of the Japanese people in Japan graduated the University level. That's quite impressive, since especially in the United States of America only 27% have graduated the University level with a bachelors.(2)
According to Japan’s national educational statistic handbook (3), 40% of those enrolled at the University level are women"

You then make the accusation that Japanese women were called sub-human air-heads. NOBODY said that, BUT YOU. Its an example of you attempting to portray something in a way it wasn't said, and is indicative of your attempt to deceive.

By the way, Japanese women are as human as Western women. Their humanity was not questioned by me, nor am I racist and hold any beliefs of being racially or ethnically superior to the Japanese.

You may want to RE-READ the first posts again. I was QUOTING ENGELBERT, who has been in Japan for YEARS and she had some negative opinions about Japanese women. This topic came from a different topic, in which a cultural comparison between Japanese and Western women would seem interesting.

I actually gave a list of GOOD POINTS of Japanese women. Something your failed to see in your blind rage to attack a difference of opinion. And included in my good points, were how many Japanese VALUE EDUCATION.

Not all Japanese women are so "highly" educated, with many going to 2 year college or; get a degree in something irrelevant, not truly applicable to the job market, or they have little intention to make a career in their field of study.

I know Japanese women that have a 4 year degree in such subjects as biology or architecture, but are doing hostess work, are basically a secretary at their office, or simply waiting around to become a housewife.

That there are educated Japanese women, doesn't mean they can't be airheads. Education can be something bought, paid for, or FORCED on a person by THEIR PARENTS.

A person can be "book smart" because they are like a TRAINED DOG, but that person can lack common sense or have an inability to use logic.

Irregardless of the statistical data on education, it would not invalidate the experience that various expats would have with many Japanese. Even if you are upset at how they choose to describe those Japanese people they have met. The point would be more as to WHY they would call or think certain Japanese women are airheads, more than simply the term itself.
john

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#14
Dec 1, 2010
 

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Yeah, so 34% attended university, so what?

University in Japan in the only time in Japan when they have some freedom between the exam hell of high school and the slavery of the company. They use it to play around, join "circles" or hobby groups to meet people, and form social networks that last the rest of thier lives in may cases.

Unlike gaijin in Japan, Japanese tend not to make many friends after this time; its all decided in high school and university who their deep friends will be. People at the company are colleagues, but can also be friends. I often hear "I met my husband at the same company". Often from cheating housewives by the way!

This makes it hard for the gaijin to get a real friend in Japan as alot of the people are already in cliques. The gaijin will have to use bars or other techniques to strike up relationships, and these relationships might not be very lasting.

Anyway, alot of J chicks dont do much study at university (unless they re trying to be a scientist or architect,etc). They are killing time before marriage and the kawaii baby they want in some cases. Basically any general arts course is full of attractive women for this reason-they havent been given strong enough role models, other than as housewives or mothers.

Some companies hire women on two tracks, 1. serious, "career" women who studied at Uni (and who have to use their brains) and 2. Bimbo women (who didnt study and have to use their looks/tits) for photocopying, coffee making, and baby making.
I am not making this up.
The men who run the company want the younger men in the company to work harder, spend less time out of the office, so they provide available women at the office for them to chase and marry. The bimbo women then are expected to quit. Top ad agencies are the worst for this, also traditional manufacturing companies.

Also, a lot of the so called "good" universities are paid, or you can be dumb and still go there. KEIO or Waseda, for instance. Its all money meeting money. And alot of the most moronic flakey chicks I have met went there, as well as the high school. They only got in because they went to the high school.

Finally, even Smart J women know that a smart woman in Japan scares the men, so they act dumb. So, dumb women act dumb (but arrogant/pretentious), intelligent J women also act dumb or subservient because they dont want to alienate the insecure men. But its all tatemae/fake behavior again and in marriage-their private time-they act how they REALLY are. I ve heard so many people say "My J girl changed after marriage". Actually, they were just faking cute UNTIL marriage. Then they let the mask down (no one can act 24 hours a day and not feel tired at some point). My ex was like that-very smart but acted annoyingly cutesy sometimes, other times very coldly intelligent, ruthless almost.

Finally, I kind of disagree with this raised tangent;
" Ironically, saving is what's causing their government to get into debt. Average citizens of Japan are very reluctant about the future and want to insure their survival in tough times to come."

The Japanese Govt has been borrowing money since 1965 and is the worlds second biggest debtor. Its because they stupidly, corruptly build airports and roads that no one uses. Japan's artifically "high" LOOKING (its all appearances/image) standard of living is maintained at the cost of HUGE debt-15 million yen for each household/person. Streets are squeaky clean. Meanwhile inside, housing is crappy, cold and cockroach ridden.
They want to find new ways to get money off the Japanese public.So expect horribly high taxes in the future, repressive even, making it less and less worth living here. And more and more whorish behavior from money starved, desperate J women in coming years.

NB. A ray of hope: avoid the fake "Sex and the city" people (most Japanese unfortunately DO live in cities) and relocate to the countryside.
You ll be a gaijin star, though you ll also have to be very discreet.

Since: Oct 08

Bandung, Indonesia

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#15
Dec 2, 2010
 

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wanita barat tidak punya rasa malu

wanita timur sangat memiliki sopan santun
The Reporter

Japan

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#16
Dec 3, 2010
 

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GreatStudent17 wrote:
wanita barat tidak punya rasa malu
wanita timur sangat memiliki sopan santun
"western women have no shame

east woman is to have good manners"

Why not translate what you said into English? Like it or not, English is considered an International Business Language. Even Koreans and Chinese speak English.

Otherwise you might be better off discussing that in the Indonesian forum. Plus, to make a relevant post, it appears you had to READ English to understand what people are saying. So to READ English, but post in Indonesian doesn't make too much sense.

Since: Oct 08

Indonesia

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#18
Dec 3, 2010
 

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ke : The Reporter

lagipula ada perangkat lunak untuk alih bahasa
J-Rock

Renton, WA

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#20
Dec 8, 2010
 

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I need a little perspective...
I've been exlusively dating a J-woman in the states for 1.5 years. This is the first time I've dated a J-woman. She's has never lived in a big city (in Japan) and has been in the states for about 6 years. In certain contexts(availabity, politeness, thoughtfullness, adventuresome) she treats me better then the women in all of my previous relationships. She's always bringing me little food gifts from any of her outings...loves to cook(as I do), etc. The glaring issues I have with her are trust. We met through my job(we don't work together) and our first date went an entire day that ended with us sleeping together. During our date we talked about relationships and she informed me that she wasn't interested in a serious relationship and implied that she was not in a relationship. The following  week at work, I'm pulled out of a session to be told by a co-worker that a call came in about a DV incident between the woman I was on the date with...and her HUSBAND!! She was calling to warn me that her HUSBAND may contact me, since he took her cell phone and found some texts from me. Of course, I'm embarrassed and annoyed but I kind of assumed she was (somewhat) BS'ing me on our date. About another week went by and I received an email with explanation and several apologies. They were in the process of separating, she was now staying with friends, etc. I wasnt planning on keeping her around, but after asking to see me, and several more apologies we kept hanging out. I didn't have intentions of it being a long term relationship, but here we are. I've since caught her in a couple more  lies one of which was about a male "friend" who she's traveled with who she dated in the past. After her tantrums then apologies, I try to help her understand the impact of her actions and the make up routine starts. In some of our heated discussions, she's said some of the most disrespectful things that anyone in a relationship has ever said to me. One of them is comparing me (negatively) to her now ex-husband who, by the way, is "the only person besides me" she has ever slept with. She has no idea what she wants to do with her life, career-wise. A lot of the negative traits(the lying) on the "How to Talk to Japanese Girls" forum seem to fit her m/o...she doesn't drive, so she sometimes gets rides home from an older J-guy she works with(or a younger one, if available). We don't live together but she's pushing the issue. When I'm with her she always tells me how handsome I am...I hear 15 "I love you's" every day. A little too much, for me. Her father in Japan is (supposably) worried that she is getting old (30) and is not married. Hint, hint. Part of me has felt like "wow" this is amazing then another part of me asks what her motive is. Simple cultural differences? Hustle? We recently had yet another blowout and I left, didn't speak to her for a week, and broke things off. One too many arguments and a little to much heated disrespect, from her. I spoke to her last night and she sounds crushed. I can't help but feel bad when she's sobbing and says things like "you are the only family I have" (all her family is in Japan), "I'm losing my best friend," "please give me another chance," etc. At the same time, I'm relieved because there's less pressure to move, or buy a house, my driver duties have decreased, and I'm don't feel responsible to counsel her on her career development. I'm  from a family of strong women so the little girl attributes are pretty damn annoying. 

Not sure what to do though...I miss her but I'm not sure if I can trust her, or her intentions...what do you guys think from your experienced cultural perspectives. Reporter?
john

Kami-nagaregawacho, Japan

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#21
Dec 8, 2010
 

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Reporter will have a field day with this one (above).

whats obviously happened is that she was just after an affair with you, but now they are getting divorced.

About the husband calling-Don't pay attention to calls from unknown numbers; you do not have to speak to Japanese people you do not know, like her husband. If a man you dont know calls and asks for you by name, just say "wrong number". Or hang up and change your number. This is what Japanese do. Dont be logical, reasonable or communicative; Japanese usually are not.

Briefly,(as its lunchtime here in sunny Japan) is that this woman is trouble. You know that.
However, I am sure the sex is good. Can't you just keep having sex with her and therefore relieve your frustration, while detaching yourself from her a bit emotionally?
You have to be stoic with this kind of Japanese woman. The is what J husbands do. They may cheat secretly, and the wives just don't want to know. However, she may cheat too.

Dont worry about the older J guy driving her-he is probably just "ashi kun". He may want to fcuk her, but I doubt he gets to. Shes just using him.

2 other things-"we dont live together but she is pushing the issue". 2 choices:
1. dont mention this again, dont live with her.
OR
2. Live with her, and say that "ok you can live in MY house but if I ever catch you with another guy I will immediately throw you and all your stuff out of the street/out the window."
She may then buckle down and be a good, faithful (by necessity) "naien no tsuma" (practicing wife).

I think #2 will work if you like this chick. She may be going through a hard time, she is clearly Daddy's girl, she has no family etc.Her marriage is fcukked up, actually her own doing but she wont blame herself. They never do.

If you ACT like daddy but be STERN, she will accept it and probably not cheat (because you ve said you ll kick her out if she cheats, and you should be prepared to follow up on that).

Also, be careful not to just become "family" to her, ie. a supplicant who supports her while she sleeps around. I ve slept with several Japanese women who were living with some guy who paid the rent, and who continued to pay the rent while they had relationships with me for years. Finally, they would leave the guy. They said things like "Oh he is just like family, or a brother. Its not about sex"

If you think she is worth it, make her your servant, but on your terms. Lay down the law-she needs a place to live after all!

Otherwise, ditch her.
KanKocMinhThanhm ayanCutdi

Koriyama, Japan

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#22
Dec 8, 2010
 

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Japanese KANKOC and Western women are same hobby f ucking is DOG F ucking...

They want to F uck DOG...

Only that...

Khoi~ noi' nhieu^`...

Du con di~ Me May^` KANKOC...

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