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PR and Proud

Chicago, IL

#23 Aug 19, 2012
joe wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. It's like a mental virus. Same goes for ALL colonized countries by European Imperialists. You get the European Imperialist culture as well, which is based in domination/disassociation/obje ctification...
Odd... history teaches us the slave trade in Europe was introduced by North Africans. Widespread slavery in Persia and Africa dates back prehistory. Blaming Jamaican racism on "white" colonization just doesn't work. If it worked that way, we could just as easily blame Serb racism on Turks/another non-European empire.
Blacktigershark

Edmonton, Canada

#24 Aug 19, 2012
Mr. PR! Seems like you are trying to come off on the wrong foot with me here, because there is no maligned intention that I attempt to show to you, so simple answers would have done, however, if you want to respond in this fashion, let me oblige you...

1) You are white, right? Now, why would you hear about WHITES coming down on Blacks for shopping, unless that was a pressing concern of yours? I could show you MANY posts of where Black shoppers are targeted by shopkeepers and discriminated against, though this was not my original intention. I could do that for you if you want...your experience in Jamaica is one that should shame Jamaicans, but if you believe that only Jamaicans are capable of racism, well, I got a bridge to sell you...you got your money ready? LOL!

2) If you thought that the bigotry against Latinos was bad in Illinois, or even in America for that matter, PR, you have NOT been to Canada for a great length of time, have you? Canada probably would not have you that long if you proudly rang off that you were Latino, especially a Puerto Rican Latino. In Canada, bigotry against Latinos is the worst that I have seen in the world...this is likely why there are not that many Latinos here in Canada...yet Canada and America keep talking about NAFTA and free trade with Mexico, and trying to unite the Americas...how can that happen when they don't want to adopt Spanish as an official language, and they try their hardest to keep Latinos out? Don't tell me what I DON'T know about the sentiment against Latinos in North America, PR...I have a few Latino friends up here in Canada, and the only ones that I know that were able to legally remain here were the White Latinos, and they were lucky at that!

3) I was not talking about the Olympics, PR...I was talking about the Euro Cup, which Spain won for a consecutive time. They pulled it out...how crazy was that, huh? I thought they were going to lose against Portugal there when I was watching that game...it was so back and forth! Team Spain are true footballing champions...you going to see World Cup 2014 in Brazil, PR?

4) I was not covering up sins of mine/others with the sins of others, PR. Racism is racism, and it is ugly, no matter who it is coming from! END POINT, correct?

5) Never said that I was a GENIUS of Puerto Rican history, PR, however, when it comes to questions about Puerto Rico, what do you think of America snubbing Puerto Rico as the 51st state to date, man? Would you like to see Puerto Rico become the 51st state of America, PR and Proud? One thing that I'm hearing is making America wary of welcoming Puerto Rico as the 51st state is the issue of making Spanish an official language, and Puerto Rico's crime rate, among others!
PR and Proud wrote:
1) I live in the US. I live in a predominantly "white" city. I have NEVER heard "whites" coming down on "blacks" for shopping. Is that normal to you?
2) I am a Latino living in the US. I would say, next to Arabs, we are the recipients of a good portion of good ol' USAmerican bigotry. And it doesn't come close to what I experienced in Montego Bay - a major Jamaican metropolitan area.
3) In the case of Olympics, the ONLY widely reported bigotry was "white" on "black". No one talked about the "white" on "white" slurs INDIVIDUALS (not teams) tweeted. Groups of Jamaicans on a metro street, in a shopping district were strewing slurs at a small group of shoppers. See the difference?
4) Covering up the sins of your own with the sins of others is WEAK SAUCE. Should it become a thing of the past? Of course! But it is very much a part of the Jamaican present/now.
5) European Puerto Ricans can be from predominantly Dutch, Italian, Corsican, English, Scottish, Irish, and/or Spanish descent. Yes, I can trace my roots to Spain because my paternal grandfather & grandmother were - in fact - Spanish citizens of Spanish blood....Any other queries based on your obviously limited knowledge of Puerto Rican history?
Blacktigershark

Edmonton, Canada

#25 Aug 19, 2012
PR and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>
Odd... history teaches us the slave trade in Europe was introduced by North Africans. Widespread slavery in Persia and Africa dates back prehistory. Blaming Jamaican racism on "white" colonization just doesn't work. If it worked that way, we could just as easily blame Serb racism on Turks/another non-European empire.
I can't argue with you there...
PR and Proud

Chicago, IL

#26 Aug 20, 2012
Blacktigershark wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't argue with you there...
Cheers.

I get sick of hearing/reading the excuse of European colonization being the source of present day "racism". It is a cue the user of the excuse doesn't know history or the human condition.
PR and Proud

Chicago, IL

#27 Aug 20, 2012
Blacktigershark wrote:
Mr. PR! Seems like you are trying to come off on the wrong foot with me here, because there is no maligned intention that I attempt to show to you, so simple answers would have done, however, if you want to respond in this fashion, let me oblige you...
1) You are white, right? Now, why would you hear about WHITES coming down on Blacks for shopping, unless that was a pressing concern of yours? I could show you MANY posts of where Black shoppers are targeted by shopkeepers and discriminated against...your experience in Jamaica is one that should shame Jamaicans, but if you believe that only Jamaicans are capable of racism...
2) If you thought that the bigotry against Latinos was bad in Illinois, or even in America for that matter, PR, you have NOT been to Canada for a great length of time, have you? Canada probably would not have you that long if you proudly rang off that you were Latino, especially a Puerto Rican Latino... Don't tell me what I DON'T know about the sentiment against Latinos in North America, PR...
3) I was not talking about the Olympics, PR...I was talking about the Euro Cup, which Spain won for a consecutive time. They pulled it out...how crazy was that, huh? I thought they were going to lose against Portugal there when I was watching that game...it was so back and forth! Team Spain are true footballing champions...you going to see World Cup 2014 in Brazil, PR?
5) Never said that I was a GENIUS of Puerto Rican history, PR, however, when it comes to questions about Puerto Rico, what do you think of America snubbing Puerto Rico as the 51st state to date, man?..
<quoted text>
1) In the rest of world, I'm so-called "white". In the US, specifically, I'm a Hispanic/Latino. Our census requires I specify "white". I would know about 'racial' profiling in shopping because I am a so-called minority in this country. If they're targeting "blacks", they're targeting Latinos. Bigotry, believe it or not, is a concern to more than the receiving individuals. Or did you think NA "blacks" freed themselves?

2) I've been to Canada... can't say I felt targeted. In fact, my experience was pretty good. I can't imagine how Latinos could be targeted in Canada... French Canadians are Latinos, and consider French Canada part of Latin America. Additionally, Puerto Rican-specific targeting doesn't make sense... we're a US Commonwealth. I won't tell you I understand "blackness", and you don't tell me you understand what it is to be Latino. Deal?

3) I did see parts of the Euro Cup. The bigotry on the part of some individuals on team Spain is absolute stupidity. But many Spaniards often deny their obvious link to Africa. It's common in Europe, due (in large part) to centuries old African/Muslim empire invasions. Oddly, Flamenco accompanied by guitar is a national treasure. The stringed accompaniment is not native to Spain... it came after the country was invaded by the Moors. A bit of self-hate maybe? I don't know, but it's very embarrassing.

4) I was told by one "black" Jamaican, while there, "black on white" hate is a palpable reality there. It is a shame... as is all bigotry. Hate begets hate.

5) The US hasn't snubbed Puerto Rican statehood. Statehood is a Puerto Rican matter. Puerto Ricans, historically, have little interest in becoming a US state. In contrast, they fought valiantly (and won) to become a Spanish provincial state... rather than simply a colony. The US has a problem with Puerto Rican [Spanish] pride. When Spain was forced to cede Puerto Rico to the US the US changed "Puerto" Rico to the Italian "Porto" Rico (for one year). A year or two after Puerto Rico declared Spanish as the official national language, the US forced English as the second official language. I could go on, but this is about Jamaica.
Blacktigershark

Edmonton, Canada

#28 Aug 20, 2012
1) Just because a storeowner is targeting Blacks, doesn't mean that they will be targeting Latinos, PR. It gets even more complicated when you put race in the mix. There are people of all races from every part of the world, so it doesn't mean that just because you are Latino, that you will suffer the same discrimination as another Latino that is NOT WHITE. You are bound to have different experiences with bigotry and racism, simply because you are White, as opposed to being Black or any other race, PR. You know about racial profiling against WHITE people and Latinos where you are concerned, because you are a WHITE LATINO, RIGHT? Don't tell me that you know about racism against Black people, PR...that is simply insulting, because the way you are talking, you are almost saying that racism against Black people isn't all that prevalent in America and Puerto Rico as racism against White people and Latino people is in Jamaica! YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THAT, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT BLACK...PERIOD!

2) How long were you in Canada, PR, and where did you go? There is a BIG difference between VISITING and LIVING in Canada, and you don't live here, right? I spoke French for a good third of my life, and actually went to Quebec when I was younger, and I will tell you, if you cannot speak French, and you are not Catholic, or you speak another language out there, and you are not living in either Quebec City or Montreal, you will KNOW what discrimination is all about...EVEN IF YOU ARE LATINO!

3) The bigotry of all the fans and the team players that display this type of bigotry and discrimination is shameful. Totally agree with you there!

4) This Black Jamaican hate you too?

5) I wanted to know what YOU think about Puerto Rico and their quest to becoming the 51st state. I see complications...
PR and Proud wrote:
1) In the rest of world, I'm so-called "white". In the US, specifically, I'm a Hispanic/Latino. Our census requires I specify "white". I would know about 'racial' profiling in shopping because I am a so-called minority in this country. If they're targeting "blacks", they're targeting Latinos. Bigotry, believe it or not, is a concern to more than the receiving individuals. Or did you think NA "blacks" freed themselves?
2) I've been to Canada... can't say I felt targeted. In fact, my experience was pretty good. I can't imagine how Latinos could be targeted in Canada... French Canadians are Latinos, and consider French Canada part of Latin America. Additionally, Puerto Rican-specific targeting doesn't make sense... we're a US Commonwealth. I won't tell you I understand "blackness", and you don't tell me you understand what it is to be Latino. Deal?
3) I did see parts of the Euro Cup. The bigotry on the part of some individuals on team Spain is absolute stupidity. But many Spaniards often deny their obvious link to Africa. It's common in Europe, due (in large part) to centuries old African/Muslim empire invasions. Oddly, Flamenco accompanied by guitar is a national treasure. The stringed accompaniment is not native to Spain... it came after the country was invaded by the Moors. A bit of self-hate maybe? I don't know, but it's very embarrassing.
4) I was told by one "black" Jamaican, while there, "black on white" hate is a palpable reality there. It is a shame... as is all bigotry. Hate begets hate.
5) The US hasn't snubbed Puerto Rican statehood. Statehood is a Puerto Rican matter. Puerto Ricans, historically, have little interest in becoming a US state. In contrast, they fought valiantly (and won) to become a Spanish provincial state... rather than simply a colony. The US has a problem with Puerto Rican [Spanish] pride. When Spain was forced to cede Puerto Rico to the US the US changed "Puerto" Rico to the Italian "Porto" Rico (for one year). A year or two after Puerto Rico declared Spanish as the official national language, the US forced English as the second official language. I could go on, but this is about Jamaica.
PR and Proud

Milwaukee, WI

#29 Aug 20, 2012
Blacktigershark wrote:
1) Just because a storeowner is targeting Blacks, doesn't mean that they will be targeting Latinos, PR. It gets even more complicated when you put race in the mix. There are people of all races from every part of the world, so it doesn't mean that just because you are Latino, that you will suffer the same discrimination as another Latino that is NOT WHITE. You are bound to have different experiences with bigotry and racism, simply because you are White, as opposed to being Black or any other race, PR. You know about racial profiling against WHITE people and Latinos where you are concerned, because you are a WHITE LATINO, RIGHT? Don't tell me that you know about racism against Black people, PR...that is simply insulting, because the way you are talking, you are almost saying that racism against Black people isn't all that prevalent in America and Puerto Rico as racism against White people and Latino people is in Jamaica! YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THAT, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT BLACK...PERIOD!
2) How long were you in Canada, PR, and where did you go? There is a BIG difference between VISITING and LIVING in Canada, and you don't live here, right? I spoke French for a good third of my life, and actually went to Quebec when I was younger, and I will tell you, if you cannot speak French, and you are not Catholic, or you speak another language out there, and you are not living in either Quebec City or Montreal, you will KNOW what discrimination is all about...EVEN IF YOU ARE LATINO!
3) The bigotry of all the fans and the team players that display this type of bigotry and discrimination is shameful. Totally agree with you there!
4) This Black Jamaican hate you too?
5) I wanted to know what YOU think about Puerto Rico and their quest to becoming the 51st state. I see complications...
<quoted text>
1) I don't recall ever claiming to know anything about being "black". But I do recall you claiming you know all about the Latino plight (because you have Latino friends), and your erroneous initial account of Puerto Rican (ethnic) history.

2) I didn't claim bigotry doesn't exist in French Canada. I stated the FACT I find it odd... as they claim to be part of America Latina.

3) Cheers. And it's just as disgusting as the bigotry I faced in Jamaica.

4) The "black" Jamaican did claim to have a prejudice and general distrust against "whites". He sat with me and my family for a period of time to gain something. I won't get into that. I did overhear his "girlfriend" ask whether he was trying to "hussle dem white people". Hey! Him sitting at our table temporarily kept us out of harms way... so, I wasn't worried about his hate/distrust. He didn't make it my problem. And that's the whole point. One's prejudices belong to the individual... why make it the problem of another?

5) I think Puerto Rico should steer clear of statehood.
Jean causwell

Kingston, Jamaica

#30 Aug 27, 2013
Her name before marriage was ivy may Lopez born 17th September 1908 in Chapelton daughter of Ansel Lopez and wife Edith Heath. Where do I go from here?
Jamaican story

New Orleans, LA

#31 Aug 28, 2013
Blacktigershark wrote:
<quoted text>
Many that get the ability to leave Jamaica seldom come back to contribute their skills to Jamaica...this has got to change! Also, small business has to be harnessed, taxes reaped for social programs and infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads, universities, colleges, etc.), and work and education encouraged and uplifted! Many people should be taken in to do work that needs to be done around Jamaica!
Are you serious? What is there to come back to except to visit your family and friends. The Jamaicans treat you like bank when you come, always wanting money, then they try to rob and kill you just for travelling there. Next, many of us who left JA did so because though qualified could not get a job. I use to see people wit out any high diploma pick up a job just like that. Guess how? Someone they know looked out for them. I know one who use to work in the pharmacy department at KPH when I live there as a child. She did not even attend high school or secondary, but instead graduated from an All Age School. She dispensed med. Now that I look back, I said no wonder we never got better when we went that hospital.
Yes, people should give back, but I rather do so to a country that took me in, educated me for fee and made my life something. That would be where I am. Yes, I miss the physical features of the island, but not the people. Especially, since, my father married a woman there and my golly! What a witch. She refuse to let him give us anything when we were growing up or even pay for bother to go to school when he was in high school.
Most of all, she refused to cook and wash for him. So though he left the family, he always brought his dirty clothes back to our house to be washed. If we refuse, he would try to chop us up with his cutlass. In other words, abuse us. My poor mom had to be hid all the knives and other cutting items to protect us. My mom eventually went to the Family court them and the women there were so ugly to her. I can recall one of them telling my mom that he could take the house from her, because she wasn’t married to him. They refuse to do anything.
Now, he made a will to leave a half of one of his houses for one of my sister and this woman is making her life a nightmare. She wants it all and said that when she dies it should go to her daughter who is not his child and living is in the USA. She is so stupid and tormenting him to turn over the title to her. The will mentioned that she gets a half, but she keep saying my sister will take it all. Who could a young person tamper with a will that was made in front of lawyers in a court room_ with other people present there for the making of that will, would you believe her grown children believe that she get it all.
She has told my sister that she is sleeping with my father and should go find her own man. She has also cursed my father and told him that he is sleeping with his daughter. Can you image this woman call her-self Christian and attends Duheny Park Gospel Assembly church? She has a copy of everything. She has mistreated, especially when he got sick and could no longer work at the wharf. She started telling him there is no money coming in, refuse to care for him when got sick. My sister had to leave her job and go take care of him. She and her daughter even threatened to hire a gunman to kill him. I do not put anything pass Jamaican people when it comes to stealing people’s man, husband and property. I guess she said, now that the money is not coming in get out and give me the most. So Blackshark Tighter, I am still being victimized after many years, the sorrow continues. Stay tune for more. Oh by the way, what do you think will happen next?
Shure

Brandon, FL

#32 Feb 22, 2014
Hi PR and Proud,

I see your point and very much so respect it, however, blacks do experience shopping horror. For instance, similar to your experience, some white owns refuse to sell to blacks, a thing we can only wish to be a thing of the past.

The bigotry you experience in Jamaica could be a backlash of historical violent racism, unfortunately it was against someone that had nothing to do with the actions of their ancestor. However, in today's society one would think such ignorance are something of the past. Those individuals in Montego Bay does not speak or represent all Jamaicans, it's an unfortunate you experienced it. It's not a good feeling to encounter such behavior from another human, and like you I've had my share and I'm pretty sure it's not over due to the color of my skin. I just wanted to comment on a few things and with hope you understand one bad apple does not represent the majority.
Blacktigershark

Edmonton, Canada

#33 Feb 22, 2014
Where did I say that I know ALL ABOUT the plight of Latinos, as opposed to simply knowing, PR and Proud? Don't misquote or misunderstand me now!

Thanks
PR and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>
1) I don't recall ever claiming to know anything about being "black". But I do recall you claiming you know all about the Latino plight (because you have Latino friends), and your erroneous initial account of Puerto Rican (ethnic) history.
2) I didn't claim bigotry doesn't exist in French Canada. I stated the FACT I find it odd... as they claim to be part of America Latina.
3) Cheers. And it's just as disgusting as the bigotry I faced in Jamaica.
4) The "black" Jamaican did claim to have a prejudice and general distrust against "whites". He sat with me and my family for a period of time to gain something. I won't get into that. I did overhear his "girlfriend" ask whether he was trying to "hussle dem white people". Hey! Him sitting at our table temporarily kept us out of harms way... so, I wasn't worried about his hate/distrust. He didn't make it my problem. And that's the whole point. One's prejudices belong to the individual... why make it the problem of another?
5) I think Puerto Rico should steer clear of statehood.
nardo

Bluffton, SC

#34 Sep 7, 2014
I think that most Jamaican's can't bare to see another Jamaican moving forward so it becomes a hate thing
Owen D Jr

Bluffton, SC

#35 Sep 7, 2014
Most Jamaican's just have a hate thing for each other,not even sure if it's racism,for instance one Jamaican start's moving forward and a next Jamaican start hating instead of being happy for his fellow Jamaican,it's like a tree without the knowledge of it's past is like a tree without roots.

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