New survey taints Israel's gay-friendly image

Jun 14, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Jewish News Weekly

For a number of years, Tel Aviv has been considered one of the most liberal cities in the world and the gay capital of the Middle East.

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“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

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#24
Jun 17, 2013
 
Nutjobs here wrote:
<quoted text>
There has been a sharp increase in hate crimes or just violence in Israel over the past 5 years.
There will always be extremists in all societies but what you speak of is rare.
My cousin was attacked by those Ultra-Orthodox in Beit Shemesh, my sister had paint thrown on her for not covering up enough (even though her clothes were below the knees and over the elbow), so i can understand as people around me were at the center of these controversies.
Most Israelis are not orthodox.
Most Israelis support a more secular society.
Most Israelis have a major problem with these actions.
This has nothing to do with Netanyahu who is not a Hassid.
The ultra-orthodox are not even in the current government for the first time in years. The voters have spoken and thats how Lapid got so many seats.
Not sure what you are trying to get at.
All I was ever saying was that there are fanatics in EVERY religion, no matter whom they bow to. No fanatics are good for normal day to day citizens for the fanatic thinks HE is the correct one and everyone else better shape up to HIS impossible goals. It does not work that way.

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

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#25
Jun 17, 2013
 
Nutjobs here wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually the majority of Israeli are secular.
The Modern Orthodox are having a large amount of children and the secular birth rate is higher than other secular communities around the world.
The Hareidim are having less children in Israel.
Nice try though but Israel is becoming more secular not more religious.
"Modern" Orthodox are not pro-gay either and if you claim that is true than where is the increase in anti-gay feeling coming from. Russian-Israelis, perhaps?
Nutjobs here

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#26
Jun 17, 2013
 
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>All I was ever saying was that there are fanatics in EVERY religion, no matter whom they bow to. No fanatics are good for normal day to day citizens for the fanatic thinks HE is the correct one and everyone else better shape up to HIS impossible goals. It does not work that way.
Yes there are fanatics in every society but when the society is fanatic such as many Arab-Muslim societies than its a problem.
Nutjobs here

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#27
Jun 17, 2013
 
JohnInToronto wrote:
<quoted text>
"Modern" Orthodox are not pro-gay either and if you claim that is true than where is the increase in anti-gay feeling coming from. Russian-Israelis, perhaps?
When did i claim that modern orthodox are pro-gay??
I grew up modern orthodox and can tell you IM experience that most Modern Orthodox are more apathetic to the subject.
At the same time there is a gay community in Jerusalem and even a gay bar. To have this in the holiest place in Judaism and be accepted is fascinating, and shows at the end that Israel is a free country.
There are more Religious moving to Tel-Aviv area this could be why.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

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#28
Jun 17, 2013
 
Nutjobs here wrote:
<quoted text>
When did i claim that modern orthodox are pro-gay??
I grew up modern orthodox and can tell you IM experience that most Modern Orthodox are more apathetic to the subject.
At the same time there is a gay community in Jerusalem and even a gay bar. To have this in the holiest place in Judaism and be accepted is fascinating, and shows at the end that Israel is a free country.
There are more Religious moving to Tel-Aviv area this could be why.
All right, all right, so far all I have done is pretty much agree with you, but you are so hot to fight, you are goading me and trying to get a rise out of me for some reason. Not gonna happen. Shalom.
Nutjobs here

Tel Aviv, Israel

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#30
Jun 17, 2013
 
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>All right, all right, so far all I have done is pretty much agree with you, but you are so hot to fight, you are goading me and trying to get a rise out of me for some reason. Not gonna happen. Shalom.
While i am sometimes aggressive here, can you blame me with so many Jew haters and so much incitement against my people. hard to tell who is whom. Although i don't believe i was goading you at all or being insulting. Some of the comments i made to you were for everyone here not just you.

You tried to portray Israel as a Conservative extremist country when its more Liberal than most countries and the Majority of Israeli Jews are secular.

Those you speak of are a minority and the case you brought up is a exception.

With the Palestinians and Arab countries in general the fanaticism is mainstream especially when it comes to hating Jews and Israel.
They are not a minority.

As for the gay community in Israel. While there have been individual cases here and there on the whole they are left alone even by extremists.

From a religious perspective i can see why they would be against Homosexuality but in Judaism it is not forbidden to be Gay but only to act on it.
Nutjobs here

Tel Aviv, Israel

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#31
Jun 17, 2013
 
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>Did they learn NOTHING from the Holocaust? The only reason they are in Israel at ALL, is because they were booted out of Europe, or would have been killed, by a repressive government, yet they can't wait to replicate it in the Promise Land.
You implications that Israel is carrying out a Holocaust on the Palestinians is ridiculous.
If you can give any evidence to back up your claim go ahead otherwise stop making false claims.

The reason Jews are in Israel is because they have resided on the land continuously for thousands of years. One of the Tenets in Judaism is to return to Jerusalem/Zion.
In the 1920's the League of Nations at the San Remo conference created mandates. One was for Palestine and to give the Jews a state on the land. If the British wouldn't have gone against the Mandate as Trustees than many of the Jews massacred in Europe would not have been there.

You are inciting hatred against my people and maybe it was you who is goading Israel supporters.

If Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians they could do it overnight. Israel however chooses to put its own soldiers lives in danger instead of just carpet bombing the Palestinians. Can you name another country in the world which would do this?

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

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#33
Jun 17, 2013
 
Nutjobs here wrote:
<quoted text>
While i am sometimes aggressive here, can you blame me with so many Jew haters and so much incitement against my people. hard to tell who is whom. Although i don't believe i was goading you at all or being insulting. Some of the comments i made to you were for everyone here not just you.
You tried to portray Israel as a Conservative extremist country when its more Liberal than most countries and the Majority of Israeli Jews are secular.
Those you speak of are a minority and the case you brought up is a exception.
With the Palestinians and Arab countries in general the fanaticism is mainstream especially when it comes to hating Jews and Israel.
They are not a minority.
As for the gay community in Israel. While there have been individual cases here and there on the whole they are left alone even by extremists.
From a religious perspective i can see why they would be against Homosexuality but in Judaism it is not forbidden to be Gay but only to act on it.
A biblical prohibition against male homosexuality is only mentioned once in the bible. Eating a cheeseburger, however, is prohibited in three different citations.

So, apparently, going to Burger King is a sin three times more offensive to G-d than taking one in the bum.

Perhaps people like Fred Phelps and his Xtian buddies are protesting the wrong people.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

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#34
Jun 17, 2013
 
Nutjobs here wrote:
<quoted text>
You implications that Israel is carrying out a Holocaust on the Palestinians is ridiculous.
If you can give any evidence to back up your claim go ahead otherwise stop making false claims.
The reason Jews are in Israel is because they have resided on the land continuously for thousands of years. One of the Tenets in Judaism is to return to Jerusalem/Zion.
In the 1920's the League of Nations at the San Remo conference created mandates. One was for Palestine and to give the Jews a state on the land. If the British wouldn't have gone against the Mandate as Trustees than many of the Jews massacred in Europe would not have been there.
You are inciting hatred against my people and maybe it was you who is goading Israel supporters.
If Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians they could do it overnight. Israel however chooses to put its own soldiers lives in danger instead of just carpet bombing the Palestinians. Can you name another country in the world which would do this?
Hey, nebbish, I AM Jewish.

I said NOTHING of the sort earlier of what you are accusing me of. All I have said is that JEWISH fanatics were not much fun to be around. I wwas trying to tell you they are as tight ass around less fanatic Jews and are highly unforgiving and uncharitable to those they think not up to their standards. THEY are as guilty as any other fanatic. I am sure they would NOT welcome me to Israel for I am not devout enough. I told you I agree with you like 98% of your post. Let it GO. I am NOT going to argue with you.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

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#35
Jun 17, 2013
 
Howie wrote:
<quoted text> Excellent post, thanks for sharing.
Since you wrote it, I guess you WOULD enjoy it, little liar.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

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#36
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Huey wrote:
<quoted text>The Holocaust never happened, it's a lie made up by the jew queers to seek sympathy.
PS: I don't think homosexuals should be having sex with children!!!
You using an actual name never happened, little liar, it's you making up fake names to fool the rest of the world, which NO one is falling for, no one.

I don't think you should be allowed to touch a computer, little liar.

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

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#37
Jun 18, 2013
 
Nutjobs here wrote:
<quoted text>
While i am sometimes aggressive here, can you blame me with so many Jew haters and so much incitement against my people. hard to tell who is whom. Although i don't believe i was goading you at all or being insulting. Some of the comments i made to you were for everyone here not just you.
You tried to portray Israel as a Conservative extremist country when its more Liberal than most countries and the Majority of Israeli Jews are secular.
Those you speak of are a minority and the case you brought up is a exception.
With the Palestinians and Arab countries in general the fanaticism is mainstream especially when it comes to hating Jews and Israel.
They are not a minority.
As for the gay community in Israel. While there have been individual cases here and there on the whole they are left alone even by extremists.
From a religious perspective i can see why they would be against Homosexuality but in Judaism it is not forbidden to be Gay but only to act on it.
As a secular and completely non-religious Jew, I think I understand where you are coming from but remember that support of Israel and its policies from abroad comes more from Jews who are observant, whether Orthodox, Conservative, Reform or Reconstructionist. Yes, people do realize that Israel is not as loony as Arabic states (I just read about the kid in Syria who got executed for making an offhand remark about Mohammed to a customer in a coffee shop), but understand that not all Jews abroad can support your current government's policies, no matter how much they try to justify them as being anti-terror. Furthermore, the policies of the Israeli government increase anti-Semitism from leftists who are of non-Jewish, non-Muslim descent in places like the US and Canada. They also lead to people sympathizing solely with the Palestinians. The situation cannot be painted in black and white, either by Israel or by Palestinian sympathizers. As for the religious, they may be a minority but they prevent spearation of synagogue and state, so that Israel always hovers around theocratic policies. When your government tries to change this, as with the recent ruling about Haredis being eligible for the draft, it is met with strong protests from that element.

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

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#38
Jun 18, 2013
 

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Howie wrote:
<quoted text> Excellent post, thanks for sharing.
Complimenting yourself again? How about changing your monikers to TweedleDum and TweedleDee?
Nutjobs here

Tel Aviv, Israel

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#39
Jun 18, 2013
 
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>Hey, nebbish, I AM Jewish.
I said NOTHING of the sort earlier of what you are accusing me of. All I have said is that JEWISH fanatics were not much fun to be around. I wwas trying to tell you they are as tight ass around less fanatic Jews and are highly unforgiving and uncharitable to those they think not up to their standards. THEY are as guilty as any other fanatic. I am sure they would NOT welcome me to Israel for I am not devout enough. I told you I agree with you like 98% of your post. Let it GO. I am NOT going to argue with you.
my only disagreement which IMO is serious is that the Israeli government is not extremist but pretty central.
When portrayed Israeli leadership as extremists while the world portrays Abbas as a moderate it changes the reality on the ground.
Nutjobs here

Tel Aviv, Israel

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#40
Jun 18, 2013
 
JohnInToronto wrote:
<quoted text>
As a secular and completely non-religious Jew, I think I understand where you are coming from but remember that support of Israel and its policies from abroad comes more from Jews who are observant, whether Orthodox, Conservative, Reform or Reconstructionist. Yes, people do realize that Israel is not as loony as Arabic states (I just read about the kid in Syria who got executed for making an offhand remark about Mohammed to a customer in a coffee shop), but understand that not all Jews abroad can support your current government's policies, no matter how much they try to justify them as being anti-terror. Furthermore, the policies of the Israeli government increase anti-Semitism from leftists who are of non-Jewish, non-Muslim descent in places like the US and Canada. They also lead to people sympathizing solely with the Palestinians. The situation cannot be painted in black and white, either by Israel or by Palestinian sympathizers. As for the religious, they may be a minority but they prevent spearation of synagogue and state, so that Israel always hovers around theocratic policies. When your government tries to change this, as with the recent ruling about Haredis being eligible for the draft, it is met with strong protests from that element.
Its hypocritical for an American to judge Israeli actions against terror when speaking of support unless they do the same with their own country.

America invades countries killing 100,000's, they carry out drone strikes killing many innocents in various countries, they invade the privacy of civilians worldwide, they have secret prisons, they bring down governments and so on. This is against countries which don't pose an existential threat.

If America would have shown the will, if necessary, to take on Iran maybe the situation we see today would not have occurred. Since Iran and other powers believe that they can do as they please with Americas new semi-isolationist policy it changes the whole world picture.

The main issue for me in the surrounding countries would be equality. Women should be treated the same as men. If they can start from this other things are possible. How can anyone support countries which oppress their own women, kill homosexuals, attack other religion, incite violence against other peoples, not to mention freedom of speech and religion.
It is sad that the West appeases all these actions even aiding these countries with money and military hardware.

Antisemitism has always been alive and kicking no matter what. Leftists prefer to ally with Islamists who would probably kill and rape them in other situations. Parts of the left are becoming more fascist than liberal in todays age IMO.

People sympathize more with the Palestinians because Israel does not stand up for itself.

The religious are an issue in Israel but things are progressing slowly and mostly by the will of the large majority.

It is about time that everyone in Israeli society contributes as National Service. Whether Arab or Hareidi they should be doing something for themselves and society for a couple of years of their life. This does not mean they have to do army but even charity work, cleaning neighborhoods (even their own), who knows. It can increase the connection of these people to the country and create more unity in the society. It is about equality.

I have Hareidi friends who i argue with about this subject. The problem for them is that the regular citizen has had enough of their actions, opinions.

The fact is that both factions of the Palestinians, Muslim Brotherhood, Wahabi Saudis, Iranian Mullahs, Shiite leadership in Iraq, Assad, Hizballah, and so on are all extremists who oppress certain sectors of their societies. I do not understand how the West can accept this. Nor how any rational person could support them.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#41
Jun 18, 2013
 
JohnInToronto wrote:
<quoted text>
...Furthermore, the policies of the Israeli government increase anti-Semitism from leftists ...
You have hit it right on the head (maybe inadvertently) that the left has always contained an antisemitic element and the much of the anti Israel rhetoric from the left is nothing more than that antisemitism with a more politically correct label. "We hate Zionists, not Jews"

Virulent criticism of Israel didn't start with the current government -- Livni was just as big a devil to them as Netanyahu is now.

As to the idea that the observant are more supportive of Israel than the non-observant community, I respectfully disagree. Support for Israel as a concept (i.e. a sovereign Jewish State) has always been the hallmark of the American leftist Jew -- with the exception of that small minority who think they can curry favour with the goyim by bashing Israel. Of course both observant and non-observant Jews critisize Israeli policies. If I ever met a Jew who wasn't critical of Israel in one way or another I would doubt his ethnicity. But, with few exceptions on the religious and non-religious extremes, American Jewish support for the existence of a Jewish State is unwavering.

Since: Dec 08

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#42
Jun 18, 2013
 
"America invades countries killing 100,000's ... This is against countries which don't pose an existential threat."

I agree with you. That is why I am not really planning to move back to the States, even though I am from there.

"If America would have shown the will, if necessary, to take on Iran maybe the situation we see today would not have occurred. Since Iran and other powers believe that they can do as they please with Americas new semi-isolationist policy it changes the whole world picture."

Remember that the situation in Iran might have been avoided entirely had American hawks not been so adamant in their support of the shah's regime. That and the CIA's overthrow of a democratic government there is really where the blame lies, not later on chronologically.

"The main issue for me in the surrounding countries would be equality. Women should be treated the same as men. If they can start from this other things are possible. How can anyone support countries which oppress their own women, kill homosexuals, attack other religion, incite violence against other peoples, not to mention freedom of speech and religion."

Then Israel needs to set an even better example. Legalize civil marriage so gay people can marry in the country, and levy harsh penalties on people who try to physically force women to sit in the back of a bus. The point is that no rational person in the West is comparing Israel to Muslim extremist states, but rather that Israel and the US alike do not adhere to the highest standard of Western culture.

"It is sad that the West appeases all these actions even aiding these countries with money and military hardware.
Antisemitism has always been alive and kicking no matter what. Leftists prefer to ally with Islamists who would probably kill and rape them in other situations. Parts of the left are becoming more fascist than liberal in todays age IMO."

I must tell you I feel that the Jewish community in Canada - which is much more Zionist than in the US - seems rather fascist to me. They support Stephen Harper wholeheartedly because of his friendship with Israel. Never mind the way he and his party have thoroughly fucked up things here, especially the environment and the lives of aboriginal peoples. Jews and gays both cannot vote solely on their own issues.

"People sympathize more with the Palestinians because Israel does not stand up for itself...."

If Israel really wants to become a modern society it must not only secularize but also eliminate distinctions among its citizenry based on religion. And the militant response to Palestinian issues has not done anything to quell their own militant tendencies - it is now 50 years since the Six Day War and there really does not seem to be much progress. Something is not working on both sides of the coin, there.

"The fact is that both factions of the Palestinians, Muslim Brotherhood, Wahabi Saudis, Iranian Mullahs, Shiite leadership in Iraq, Assad, Hizballah, and so on are all extremists who oppress certain sectors of their societies. I do not understand how the West can accept this. Nor how any rational person could support them."

People in the West realize this, if they are reasonably educated.(I would grant you that there are some knee-jerk liberal types, mostly left-wing goyim, who think Palestinians are as persecuted as Jews under Hitler, which is clear not a good comparison.) But rational people also realize that the irrationality of a group of people does not in itself excuse people who are more rational doing them injustice.
Nutjobs here

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#43
Jun 18, 2013
 
JohnInToronto wrote:
Remember that the situation in Iran might have been avoided entirely had American hawks not been so adamant in their support of the shah's regime. That and the CIA's overthrow of a democratic government there is really where the blame lies, not later on chronologically.

I must tell you I feel that the Jewish community in Canada - which is much more Zionist than in the US - seems rather fascist to me. They support Stephen Harper wholeheartedly because of his friendship with Israel. Never mind the way he and his party have thoroughly fucked up things here, especially the environment and the lives of aboriginal peoples. Jews and gays both cannot vote solely on their own issues.
I find it really sad growing up through the 90's America was amazing in my eyes. I have wanted to move there for much of my life. Until lately.

The Iran issue was still solvable a decade ago and could have been solved than. But when Iran knows or believes that they are safe to do as they please with no retaliation it doesn't help.
This is the same as in the West Bank where there are near DAILY attack on Jews and the IDF/Israeli Police rarely do anything to protect their own civilians nor catch the perps. If they would maybe there would be less terror.

Theres a difference in accepting Gay marriage and accepting Gay people. In Israel marriage must be religious. As a Jew i have to marry with a Rabbi. Lapid is trying to push what you call for but step by step. Israel does accept marriages from abroad though.
You are asking something which most American states won't do.
Trust me as with most people in the country if i saw this discrimination on a bus i would act. I have lived in an area with many Ultra-Orthodox in the past few years and while the buses are full i have never seen this happen. Although it has made me really uncomfortable to sit next to someone of the opposite sex in case they are offended. There is separate seating for the most part but again noone has attacked me or others for sitting next to someone from the opposite sex.

IMO Harper may not be good for your country domestically but he stands up for justice internationally and Canada has lost pull in the UN due to this. Also the targeting of anti-Islamists i find disturbing.
Not sure what the environment and aborigines have to do with fascism. The Oil Sand may be good for Canada and its not so clear as people make out.

Coming from the West with its appeasement to extremism, Multicultularism, PC you see it is increasing hatred of each other and why can't we see each other as different but equal.

Israel would put down their weapons and make peace tomorrow if they had a partner. Abbas refuses to negotiate and his term ran out years ago anyways.

The PLO was created to destroy Israel not to have a state. This is clear from their first charter in 1964. The PLO Phased Plan 1974 calls for a step by step plan of how to destroy Israel, Arafat said the same week as signing Oslo that he is only doing it to take what he can before he can use what he has been given to destroy Israel. The Palestinians have NEVER done anything for peace and their WHOLE society is full of hatred against Israel, Jews and others.
The Palestinians refuse to negotiate and with the world support in the UN, feel if they wait long enough the world will destroy Israel for them.

Is there any other country in the world who would handle the situation better than Israel has? Any army in the world who would have not carpet bombed the shit out of Gaza already, any other country in the world which would be willing to give up part of its country to a group whose only reason from existence (from their own admission) is to destroy Israel. Hamas own charter calls to kill Jews, Fatah aren't much better.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#44
Jun 18, 2013
 
JohnInToronto wrote:
"Then Israel needs to set an even better example..."
Why?

Why should Israel, a state whose reason for existence it to provide one place on the planet where Jewish lives aren't dependent on the beneficence of the host population, be held to a higher standard than any other country?

If you hold -- as you have -- Israel's record for gay rights, human rights, and general progressive ideals up to any other country's they will generally come off looking very good.

But, apparently, that's not good enough for some -- they will seek to demonize Israel for the mote in her eye and ignore the beam in eye of their own country (to quote that OTHER book).

The only country Israel need compare itself is Israel of yesterday. That goes for every country on Earth.
Broseph

New Castle, DE

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#45
Jun 23, 2013
 
Huey wrote:
<quoted text>The Holocaust never happened, it's a lie made up by the jew queers to seek sympathy.
PS: I don't think homosexuals should be having sex with children!!!
0.5/10 for unoriginality

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