Israel's end is near, Ahmadinejad says

TEHRAN, Iran- Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad yesterday said the world would witness the destruction of Israel soon, the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported. Full Story
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#36769 Oct 13, 2012
Sailor wrote:
Israel is still God's people.
Is there any one on this earth, who is not created by he same God who created Jews?

How come Isreal is God's own people and others not?

Is it not racism? Pure and Simple?
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#36770 Oct 13, 2012
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...

Iran and Everything Else

By Michael Parenti

August 07, 2012 "Information Clearing House" -- Occasionally individuals complain that I fail to address one subject or another. One Berkeley denizen got in my face and announced: "You leftists ought to become aware of the ecological crisis." In fact, I had written a number of things about the ecological crisis, including one called "Eco-Apocalypse." His lack of familiarity with my work did not get in the way of his presumption.

Years ago when I spoke before the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom in New York, the moderator announced that she could not understand why I had "remained silent" about the attempt to defund UNESCO. Whatever else I might have been struggling with, she was convinced I should have joined with her in trying to save UNESCO (which itself really was a worthy cause).

People give me marching orders all the time. Among the most furiously insistent are those fixed on 9/11. Why haven’t I said anything about 9/11? Why am I "a 9/11 denier." In fact, I have written about 9/11 and even spoke at two 9/11 conferences (Santa Cruz and New York), raising questions of my own.

Other people have been "disappointed" or "astonished" or "puzzled" that I have failed to pronounce on whatever is the issue du jour. No attention is given by such complainers to my many books, articles, talks, and interviews that treat hundreds of subjects pertaining to political economy, culture, ideology, media, fascism, communism, capitalism, imperialism, media, ecology, political protest, history, religion, race, gender, homophobia, and other topics far too numerous to list.(For starters, visit my website: www.michaelparenti.org )

But one’s own energy, no matter how substantial, is always finite. One must allow for a division of labor and cannot hope to fight every fight.

Recently someone asked when was I going to "pay some attention" to Iran. Actually I have spoken about Iran in a number of interviews and talks---not to satisfy demands made by others but because I myself was moved to do so. In the last decade, over a five year period, I was repeatedly interviewed by English Radio Tehran. My concern about Iran goes back many years. Just the other day, while clearing out some old files, I came across a letter I had published over 33 years ago in the New York Times (10 May 1979), reproduced here exactly as it appeared in the Times:

To the Editor of the New York Times:

For 25 years the Shah of Iran tortured and murdered many thousands of dissident workers, students, peasants and intellectuals. For the most part, the U.S. press ignored these dreadful happenings and portrayed the Shah as a citadel of stability and an enlightened modernizer.

Thousands more were killed by the Shah’s police and military during the popular uprisings of this past year. Yet these casualties received only passing mention even though Iran was front-page news for several months. And from 1953 to 1978 millions of other Iranians suffered the silent oppression of poverty and malnutrition while the Shah, his family, and his generals grew ever richer.


Sailor

Yorba Linda, CA

#36771 Oct 13, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there any one on this earth, who is not created by he same God who created Jews?
How come Isreal is God's own people and others not?
Is it not racism? Pure and Simple?
Answer: Speaking of the nation of Israel, Deuteronomy 7:7-9 tells us,“The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your forefathers that He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands.” But God loves all people alike and he wants them to come to him through his son, Jesus Christ. He chose Israel as the nation where his son would be born and come through.
Sailor

Yorba Linda, CA

#36772 Oct 13, 2012
John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#36773 Oct 13, 2012
Advocate wrote:
Iran is governed by a theocracy and it's doing terrible in terms of development of social liberties.

Saudi Arabia as an absolute monarchy with strong ties to an official state religion does just as bad, if not worse. A theocracy or a nation built on following an officially endorsed religion flies in the face of all values democratic and free.

It's not a question of devotion, it's a question concerning fairness and impartiality towards all.

I'm pretty sure there is Islamic scripture claiming not only no compulsion in religion but condemnation of killing of any kind, and yet these people not only refuse to recognise the rights of others concerning religious freedom, but they have no qualms over killing civilians and babies if it means keeping people in line with what they WANT others to do.

It is despicable and despotic; how can you support such people?
Ans.

I do not know what you mean by theocracy. This word is not known in Islamic Jurisprudence. As I told you in Islam there is no distinction between state and so called Church.

Islam provides guidance for each area of human lives.

I do not know of any Islamic scholar in Saudi Arabia which asks Muslims to persecute and kill and harm people of other faiths living and working inside Saudi Arabia.

There are millions of Non Muslims of every type residing and working in Saudi Arabia and I do not know if they are molested and killed and laughed at.

There are some restrictions on them going out in public and performing their religious services,(since Saudi Arabia has a special status for All Muslims), but no one is forced to come here. It is as per their contract terms.

Saudi Arabia is one of the most peaceful place in the world and the crime rate is one of the lowest in the world.

You people only think that it is because no one reports crimes, that is not correct, crime rates are on the rise, since because of International Media pressure, Saudi authorities have relaxed imposition of punishment to a large degree.

Every one can see the rise in crime graph and abolition of Islamic punishment, this should be an eye opener to every one.

I do not blindly support Saudi Arabia, my support is issue based.
Gupta

United States

#36774 Oct 14, 2012
Iranians are finally starting to r elise how they are being fooled by their government thieves . Demonstration have started against the government, the lines for bread are becoming longer, the rial currency is sliding further every day and loosing value, the average fixed wage Iranian is being forced into destitution while the iranian leaders are stealing and fattening their swiss bank accounts . Its a matter of time now till the iranians will overthrow this dictatorship, Iranians are demanding a true democracy free of mullahs and theocracy and stop the pill aging and theft of the oil wealth that benefits only the top few
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#36775 Oct 14, 2012
Sailor wrote:
1.

Answer: Speaking of the nation of Israel, Deuteronomy 7:7-9 tells us,“The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your forefathers that He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands.”

But God loves all people alike and he wants them to come to him through his son, Jesus Christ. He chose Israel as the nation where his son would be born and come through.

2.

John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Ans.

1. The “Key Phrase” in your Quotation is …“He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands.”

God is Loving God to those who love Him and Keep His commandments!!

So long as Jews were doing that, God loved them and Chose them and bestowed His favors on them.

But when the same Jews swerved from the True Path and followed evil path, God’s anger turned on them and He chastised them in no uncertain ways.

God’s anger on Jews was gradual and had many stages:

a. First God chastised Jews by minor attacks and taking their lands by their enemies, so that they might repent.

b. When that did not help, God sent Nebuchadnezzar in ~ 500 BC who destroyed the Temple of Solomon at Jerusalem and took Jews for captivity for 70 years.

c. After 70 years of captivity, Jews did repent and beseeched God for mercy, who had mercy on them and they got freedom and returned back to Jerusalem and rebuilt their temple and vowed to walk in God’s ways.

d. But soon they forgot their promise and started doing evil deeds…..then God sent Jesus as a Final Prophet from Isaac line of Abraham, to deliver a final warning to Jews to turn back and mend their ways.

e. But Jews did not heed to the warning of Jesus and became his enemies and even tried to kill him. That was the final warning from God….and in year 70 CE Roman General Titus once again destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem and dispersed Jews thru our Europe.

f. Jews had one final chance of redemption to believe in the Last and Final prophet of God, which God sent from Ishmaelite branch of Abraham’s family. Moses, David, Isaiah and Jesus, all had prophesized the advent of such a prophet.

g. If Jews had heeded to this prophet, they could have got back Palestine and much more land for an everlasting possession….. but true to their mentality they rejected Last and Final Prophet and became mortal enemy of him and his message….. when they did it, God cursed them and they were removed from the Mercy of God unless they repent.

h. Therefore Jews are no longer Chosen people of God, unless they first state believing in Jesus and then believe in the Last and Final prophet.

Choice is in their hands and with no one else.

Allah Knows Best.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#36776 Oct 14, 2012
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...

Iran and Everything Else

By Michael Parenti (Contd.)

Now the furies of revolution have lashed back, thus far executing about 200 of the Shah’s henchmen—less than what the Savak would arrest and torture on a slow weekend. And now the U.S. press has suddenly become acutely concerned, keeping a careful account of the "victims," printing photos of firing squads and making repeated references to the "repulsion" and "outrage" felt by anonymous "middle-class" Iranians who apparently are endowed with finer sensibilities than the mass of ordinary people will bore the brunt of the Shah’s repression. At the same time, American commentators are quick to observe that the new regime is merely replacing one repression with another.

So it has always been with the recording of revolutions: the mass of nameless innocents victimized by the ancien régime go uncounted and unnoticed, but when the not-so-innocent murderers are brought to revolutionary justice, the business-owned press is suddenly filled with references to "brutality" and "cruelty."
That anyone could equate the horrors of the Shah’s regime with the ferment, change and struggle that is going on in Iran today is a tribute to the biases of the U.S. press, a press that has learned to treat the atrocities of the U.S.-supported right-wing regimes with benign neglect while casting a stern self-righteous eye on the popular revolutions that challenge such regimes.

Michael Parenti
Washington, D.C.

There is one glaring omission in this missive: I focused only on the press without mentioning how the White House and leading members of Congress repeatedly had hailed the Shah as America’s sturdy ally---while U.S. oil companies merrily plundered Iran’s oil (with a good slice of the spoils going to the Shah and his henchmen).

A few years before the 1979 upheaval, I was teaching a graduate course at Cornell University. There I met several Iranian graduate students who spoke with utter rage about the Shah and his U.S.-supported Savak secret police. They told of friends being tortured and disappeared. They could not find enough damning words to vent their fury. These students came from the kind of well-off Persian families one would have expected to support the Shah.(You don’t make it from Tehran to Cornell graduate school without some money in the family.)

All I knew about the Shah at that time came from the U.S. mainstream media. But after listening to these students I began to think that this Shah fellow was not the admirably benign leader and modernizer everyone was portraying in the news.

The Shah’s subsequent overthrow in the 1979 revolution was something to celebrate. Unfortunately the revolution soon was betrayed by the theocratic militants who took hold of events and created their Islamic Republic of Iran. These religious reactionaries set about to torture and eradicate thousands of young Iranian radicals. They made war upon secular leftists and "decadent" Western lifestyles, as they set about establishing a grim and corrupt theocracy.

MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#36777 Oct 14, 2012
U.S. leaders and media had no critical words about the slaughter of leftist revolutionaries in Iran. If anything, they were quietly pleased. However, they remained hostile toward the Islamic regime. Why so? Regimes that kill revolutionaries and egalitarian reformists do not usually incite displeasure from the White House. If anything, the CIA and the Pentagon and the other imperial operatives who make the world safe for the Fortune 500 look most approvingly upon those who torture and murder Marxists and other leftists. Indeed, such counterrevolutionaries swiftly become the recipients of generous amounts of U.S. aid.

Why then did U.S. leaders denounce and threaten Iran and continue to do so to this day? The answer is: Iran’s Islamic Republic has other features that did not sit well with the western imperialists. Iran was-—and still is---a "dangerously" independent nation, unwilling to become a satellite to the U.S. global empire, unlike more compliant countries. Like Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Iran, with boundless audacity, gave every impression of wanting to use its land, labor, markets, and capital as it saw fit. Like Iraq---and Libya and Syria---Iran was committing the sin of economic nationalism. And like Iraq, Iran remained unwilling to establish cozy relations with Israel.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#36778 Oct 14, 2012
Gupta wrote:
01. Iranians are finally starting to realise how they are being fooled by their government thieves .

02. Demonstration have started against the government, the lines for bread are becoming longer, the rial currency is sliding further every day and loosing value, the average fixed wage Iranian is being forced into destitution while the Iranian leaders are stealing and fattening their Swiss bank accounts .

03. Its a matter of time now till the Iranians will overthrow this dictatorship, Iranians are demanding a true democracy free of mullahs and theocracy and stop the pill aging and theft of the oil wealth that benefits only the top few
Ans.

01. This is your day dreams, I think Iran is the “Only country” in the whole of ME where regular elections are taking place ever since the Revolution came in 1979. All their Presidents have been elected after multiple choice is given to the voters.

02. If the economy is falling, then why is Iran only exception? Is not the economy went into recession in every country of Europe? Why they did not overthrow those Govts. Also?

03. And now Free elections in Turkey, Algeria, Tunis, Egypt and everywhere have shown that if Muslims are given free choice, they will always select Islamic rule over Non Islamic rule.

That is why, Western people no longer want Democracy in any Muslim country now, they are happy to deal with Kings, Emirs and Generals and Dictators.
Hamza

United States

#36779 Oct 15, 2012
Gupta wrote:
Iranians are finally starting to r elise how they are being fooled by their government thieves . Demonstration have started against the government, the lines for bread are becoming longer, the rial currency is sliding further every day and loosing value, the average fixed wage Iranian is being forced into destitution while the iranian leaders are stealing and fattening their swiss bank accounts . Its a matter of time now till the iranians will overthrow this dictatorship, Iranians are demanding a true democracy free of mullahs and theocracy and stop the pill aging and theft of the oil wealth that benefits only the top few
I can't afford to buy meat or almost anything prices have tripled since the rial has collapsed . The regime is doing nothing to help in this crises . I wish I could leave iran now, the mullahs will fight as in syria to hold on to power and a lot of iranians will be murdered by this iranian dictatorship, the voting in iran is rigged and the elected have no real power anyways , everything major has to get clearance by the ayatollah. So nothing substantial in change will happen, I and anybody I know face the same problems and we just wish we could get out of iran. The ayatollah will rather have a nuclear bomb then food on the table for iranians, allah save us from these madman
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#36782 Oct 15, 2012
Hamza wrote:
<quoted text> I can't afford to buy meat or almost anything prices have tripled since the rial has collapsed . The regime is doing nothing to help in this crises . I wish I could leave iran now, the mullahs will fight as in syria to hold on to power and a lot of iranians will be murdered by this iranian dictatorship, the voting in iran is rigged and the elected have no real power anyways , everything major has to get clearance by the ayatollah. So nothing substantial in change will happen, I and anybody I know face the same problems and we just wish we could get out of iran. The ayatollah will rather have a nuclear bomb then food on the table for iranians, allah save us from these madman
As per your web address you are already in USA, so what are you complaining now?

You are already in the Paradise on this earth, so enjoy life and forget all about Iran and Ayatollahs and Iranian Riyal....

Dream about mountain loads of US Dollars being piled at your doorstep and you get free education, free medical aid, free insurance...

Land of free, where nothing is free!!
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#36783 Oct 15, 2012
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...

Iran and Everything Else

By Michael Parenti (Contd.)

But this isn’t what we ordinary Americans are told. When talking to us, a different tact is taken by U.S. opinion-makers and policymakers. To strike enough fear into the public, our leaders tell us that, like Iraq, Iran "might" develop weapons of mass destruction. And like Iraq, Iran is lead by people who hate America and want to destroy us and Israel. And like Iraq, Iran "might" develop into a regional power leading other nations in the Middle East down the "Hate America" path. So our leaders conclude for us: it might be necessary to
destroy Iran in an all-out aerial war.

It was President George W. Bush who in January 2002 cited Iraq, Iran, and North Korea as an "axis of evil." Iran exports terrorism and "pursues" weapons of mass destruction. Sooner or later this axis would have to be dealt with in the severest way, Bush insisted.

These official threats and jeremiads are intended to leave us with the impression that Iran is not ruled by "good Muslims." The "good Muslims"---as defined by the White House and the State Department---are the reactionary extremists and feudal tyrants who ride high in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirate, Bahrain, and other countries that provide the United States with military bases, buy large shipments of U.S. arms, vote as Washington wants in the United Nations, enter free trade agreements with the Western capitalist nations, and propagate a wide-open deregulated free-market economy.

The "good Muslims" invite the IMF and the western corporations to come in and help themselves to the country’s land, labor, markets, industry, natural resources and anything else the international plutocracy might desire.

Unlike the "good Muslims," the "bad Muslims" of Iran take an anti-imperialist stance. They try to get out from under the clutches of the U.S. global imperium. For this, Iran may yet pay a heavy price. Think of what has been happening to Iraq, Libya, and now Syria. For its unwillingness to throw itself open to Western corporate pillage, Iran is already being subjected to heavy sanctions imposed by the United States and its allies. Sanctions hurt the ordinary population most of all. Unemployment and poverty increase. The government is unable to maintain human services. The public infrastructure begins to deteriorate and evaporate: privatization by attrition.

Iran has pursued an enriched uranium program, same as any nation has the right to do. The enrichment has been low-level for peaceful use, not the kind necessary for nuclear bombs. Iranian leaders, both secular and theocratic have been explicit about the useless horrors of nuclear weaponry and nuclear war.

Appearing on the Charlie Rose show when he was visiting the USA, Iranian president Ahmadinejad pointed out that nuclear weapons have never saved anyone. The Soviet Union had nuclear weapons; was it saved? he asked. India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons; have they found peace and security? Israel has nuclear weapons: has it found peace and security? And the United States itself has nuclear weapons and nuclear fleets patrolling the world and it seems obsessively preoccupied with being targeted by real or imagined enemies. Ahmadinejad, the wicked one, sounded so much more rational and humane than Hillary Clinton snarling her tough-guy threats at this or that noncompliant nation.
True

Yorba Linda, CA

#36784 Oct 15, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
1. The “Key Phrase” in your Quotation is …“He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands.”
God is Loving God to those who love Him and Keep His commandments!!
So long as Jews were doing that, God loved them and Chose them and bestowed His favors on them.
But when the same Jews swerved from the True Path and followed evil path, God’s anger turned on them and He chastised them in no uncertain ways.
God’s anger on Jews was gradual and had many stages:
a. First God chastised Jews by minor attacks and taking their lands by their enemies, so that they might repent.
b. When that did not help, God sent Nebuchadnezzar in ~ 500 BC who destroyed the Temple of Solomon at Jerusalem and took Jews for captivity for 70 years.
c. After 70 years of captivity, Jews did repent and beseeched God for mercy, who had mercy on them and they got freedom and returned back to Jerusalem and rebuilt their temple and vowed to walk in God’s ways.
d. But soon they forgot their promise and started doing evil deeds…..then God sent Jesus as a Final Prophet from Isaac line of Abraham, to deliver a final warning to Jews to turn back and mend their ways.
e. But Jews did not heed to the warning of Jesus and became his enemies and even tried to kill him. That was the final warning from God….and in year 70 CE Roman General Titus once again destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem and dispersed Jews thru our Europe.
f. Jews had one final chance of redemption to believe in the Last and Final prophet of God, which God sent from Ishmaelite branch of Abraham’s family. Moses, David, Isaiah and Jesus, all had prophesized the advent of such a prophet.
g. If Jews had heeded to this prophet, they could have got back Palestine and much more land for an everlasting possession….. but true to their mentality they rejected Last and Final Prophet and became mortal enemy of him and his message….. when they did it, God cursed them and they were removed from the Mercy of God unless they repent.
h. Therefore Jews are no longer Chosen people of God, unless they first state believing in Jesus and then believe in the Last and Final prophet.
Choice is in their hands and with no one else.
Allah Knows Best.
The following prophecies are just some of the many that prove God's omniscient hand on his people the Jews (Nation of Israel)
1. The Lord will never forget his chosen people:
Leviticus 26:44
Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God.(DURING THEIR CAPTIVITY IN BABYLON, THE JEWISH PEOPLE THOUGHT GOD FORGOT ABOUT THEM, HE PROMISED NOT TO)
2. The nation of Israel will never cease to be a nation of people
Jeremiah 31:35-36
35 This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the LORD Almighty is his name:
36 "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight," declares the LORD, "will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me." (GOD IS SAYING IF YOU CAN DISLODGE THE MOON FROM ITS PLACE , STOP THE SEAS FROM ROARING, TAKE THE SHINE OUT OF THE STARS WILL THE NATION OF ISRAEL CEASE TO EXIST)
3. God promises to restore Israel to their land
Jeremiah 32:36-37
36 "You are saying about this city,'By the sword, famine and plague it will be handed over to the king of Babylon'; but this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says:
37 I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety.(THE PROMISE TO RESTORE ISRAEL)
Sailor

Yorba Linda, CA

#36785 Oct 15, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
1. The “Key Phrase” in your Quotation is …“He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands.”
God is Loving God to those who love Him and Keep His commandments!!
So long as Jews were doing that, God loved them and Chose them and bestowed His favors on them.
But when the same Jews swerved from the True Path and followed evil path, God’s anger turned on them and He chastised them in no uncertain ways.
God’s anger on Jews was gradual and had many stages:
a. First God chastised Jews by minor attacks and taking their lands by their enemies, so that they might repent.
b. When that did not help, God sent Nebuchadnezzar in ~ 500 BC who destroyed the Temple of Solomon at Jerusalem and took Jews for captivity for 70 years.
c. After 70 years of captivity, Jews did repent and beseeched God for mercy, who had mercy on them and they got freedom and returned back to Jerusalem and rebuilt their temple and vowed to walk in God’s ways.
d. But soon they forgot their promise and started doing evil deeds…..then God sent Jesus as a Final Prophet from Isaac line of Abraham, to deliver a final warning to Jews to turn back and mend their ways.
e. But Jews did not heed to the warning of Jesus and became his enemies and even tried to kill him. That was the final warning from God….and in year 70 CE Roman General Titus once again destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem and dispersed Jews thru our Europe.
f. Jews had one final chance of redemption to believe in the Last and Final prophet of God, which God sent from Ishmaelite branch of Abraham’s family. Moses, David, Isaiah and Jesus, all had prophesized the advent of such a prophet.
g. If Jews had heeded to this prophet, they could have got back Palestine and much more land for an everlasting possession….. but true to their mentality they rejected Last and Final Prophet and became mortal enemy of him and his message….. when they did it, God cursed them and they were removed from the Mercy of God unless they repent.
h. Therefore Jews are no longer Chosen people of God, unless they first state believing in Jesus and then believe in the Last and Final prophet.
Choice is in their hands and with no one else.
Allah Knows Best.
I believe God has a future for ethnic Israel. And we agree this is not because there are two tracks to glory or two different covenants of grace. Rather, corporate Israel will be saved in the end because she will be grafted back into the same covenant tree with all of us wild olive branches (Rom. 11:16–24). Both Jews and Gentiles become heirs of the promise of Abraham in the same way: "If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" (Gal. 3:29).

So I am persuaded that Israel, as a people, will someday be converted to the Messiah and saved:

They are kept separate that they may finally be saved, converted and restored to their own land. They are reserved and preserved, in order that God may show in them as on a platform, to angels and men, how greatly he hates sin, and yet how greatly he can forgive, and how greatly he can convert. Never will that be realized as it will in that day when "all Israel shall be saved."

Moreover, I also believe the promise of the Land to this redeemed ethnic Israel is both conditional and irrevocable. Irrevocable means they will finally have it as a special dwelling place when the Deliverer comes from Zion and banishes ungodliness from Jacob (Rom. 11:26).
The Advocate

Mexico, Mexico

#36786 Oct 16, 2012
Sailor wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe God has a future for ethnic Israel. And we agree this is not because there are two tracks to glory or two different covenants of grace. Rather, corporate Israel will be saved in the end because she will be grafted back into the same covenant tree with all of us wild olive branches (Rom. 11:16–24). Both Jews and Gentiles become heirs of the promise of Abraham in the same way: "If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" (Gal. 3:29).
So I am persuaded that Israel, as a people, will someday be converted to the Messiah and saved:
They are kept separate that they may finally be saved, converted and restored to their own land. They are reserved and preserved, in order that God may show in them as on a platform, to angels and men, how greatly he hates sin, and yet how greatly he can forgive, and how greatly he can convert. Never will that be realized as it will in that day when "all Israel shall be saved."
Moreover, I also believe the promise of the Land to this redeemed ethnic Israel is both conditional and irrevocable. Irrevocable means they will finally have it as a special dwelling place when the Deliverer comes from Zion and banishes ungodliness from Jacob (Rom. 11:26).
Did you just come here to say you want non Christians to be converted? You must be quite the hit in Saudi Arabia.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#36787 Oct 16, 2012
True wrote:
The following prophecies are just some of the many that prove God's omniscient hand on his people the Jews (Nation of Israel)

1. The Lord will never forget his chosen people:
Leviticus 26:44


2. The nation of Israel will never cease to be a nation of people
Jeremiah 31:35-36

35 This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the LORD Almighty is his name:


3. God promises to restore Israel to their land
Jeremiah 32:36-37


37 I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety.(THE PROMISE TO RESTORE ISRAEL)
Ans.

1. What you are quoting is correct but your context seems to be wrong.

02. You forget that MANY of the promises of God to bring Jews back to the land of Palestine refer tot heir “First Exile” to the land of Babylon. That phase of their history is over and you cannot use those prophesies for every where in human history.

03. When Jesus appeared on the scene and Jews rejected him and tried to kill him, things too a different turn. Now they were branded as a “rebellious people” and the ONLY way to come back into the fold of God was to turn back and accept Jesus as their prophet. So long they continue to deny Jesus….. the path is blocked for them.

04. And when the Last and Final prophet of God came in Arabia as a Universal messenger of God (which Moses prophesized in Deut 18:18 and which Jesus prophesized in John Ch 14-16), that was really the Last Chance for Jews to rectify all their past mistakes and make themselves worthy to receive Grace of God…. But Jews true to their mentality rejected him and became his and his message’s bitterest enemies.

To their hatred for truth was added the hared of being asked to follow a prophet from Ishmaelite branch of Abraham’s family!!

05. So now if Jews want to turn back and be ready to receive Grace and Mercy of God, they have to follow and acknowledge the mission of both Jesus AND Last and Final messenger of God (It is not a tall order, because 1.5 Billion Muslims do that). There is no short cut.

06. As regards their coming together from all parts of world and establishing their “homeland” in the land of Palestine, regarding that we also have some info in our Islamic literature that close to End of World, Jews and Christians shall become very powerful and the time of Great tribulations shall come on earth.

07. We do not know that our time is what is intended in that prophesy…. The Zionist state of Israel established in Palestine 60 years back, is not what is mentioned in these Biblical prophesies. Because it is not only Physical occupation of land but establishing rule of Laws and Commandments.

07A. The present state of Israel is mostly an Atheist and Materialistic country and has no regards for the Laws of Torah and Commandments of God.

07B. And even if we consider that arrival of Jews from all over the world corresponds to the nearness of End of Time…. Then we should wait for coming on Anti Christ and descent of Jesus Christ from heavens…. None of these bodes any thing good for Jews. It is as if chickens from all over the field and being gathered for one Final Scoop…. Jews from all over the world are getting concentrated into one country and one place (by their own choice and they cannot blame any one else for that)….

08. What is needed to please God and Lord of Universe, is sincerity. Piety, Equity, fair play, justice, equality and walking in the ways of God…. Not that I have this genealogy, I speak this language, and color of my skin is this and color of my eyes is that….

All these are outer criterion, Our Lord and God of Universe sees what is inside of our hearts… He is Lord and God of blacks, browns, grey, yellow and Whites.

MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#36788 Oct 16, 2012
Sailor wrote:
01. I believe God has a future for ethnic Israel. And we agree this is not because there are two tracks to glory or two different covenants of grace. Rather, corporate Israel will be saved in the end because she will be grafted back into the same covenant tree with all of us wild olive branches (Rom. 11:16–24). Both Jews and Gentiles become heirs of the promise of Abraham in the same way: "If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" (Gal. 3:29).

02. So I am persuaded that Israel, as a people, will someday be converted to the Messiah and saved:

03. They are kept separate that they may finally be saved, converted and restored to their own land. They are reserved and preserved, in order that God may show in them as on a platform, to angels and men, how greatly he hates sin, and yet how greatly he can forgive, and how greatly he can convert. Never will that be realized as it will in that day when "all Israel shall be saved."

04. Moreover, I also believe the promise of the Land to this redeemed ethnic Israel is both conditional and irrevocable. Irrevocable means they will finally have it as a special dwelling place when the Deliverer comes from Zion and banishes ungodliness from Jacob (Rom. 11:26).
Ans.

You are free to believe in whatever you want and there is no restriction on your imaginations.

01. What you are saying is as if Jews are a separate class of humans distinguished from others and God has a special provision and a special law for them.

02. God does not care about other people and other races as to where they live, where they go and what happens to them.

But He always keeps track of His precious Jews and sees to it that they are protected and be saved in the end.

03. This is “Jews centric” theory of humanity, which has no reality.

04. All humans are progeny of same pair of Adam and Eve and there is no per see superiority of any race and any people over others.

05. Those who follow Laws and Commandments of God, find His favor and those who reject and follow other path earn His displeasures.

06. God has been very kind to Jews and gave them much more chance than any other nations. He send amongst them more prophets and messengers than any other nations.

But Jews have not realized the blessings of God and became enemies of these prophets and messenger.

Persecuting prophets of God and Messengers of God and killing them has become a “routine work” for the Jews.

07. The last but one nail was their rejection of Jesus Christ, they continue to reject him even after 2000 years an there is no possibility that they will have “change of heart” in near future. Those who wish it are naïve and over simpletons.

08. And Final nail came when these Jews rejected the Last and Final messenger of God who appeared in Arabia 1400 years back. They tried to do to him the same which they tried to do to Jesus, but were thwarted in their attempt by God.

09. Yes, they will not perish, they shall continue to live till the End of World, when Jesus shall return to earth and Anti Christ shall rise and most of Jews shall follow Anti Christ and not Jesus Christ!!

10. Therefore any one who is in false hope that Jews overwhelmingly will either Accept Jesus Christ or Last Prophet as their prophet is living in fool’s paradise.

11. That does not mean than on individual level, some Jews shall not become followers of Jesus or of Last Prophet. Many of them shall find and follow the True Path, but majority of them shall continue to be “perverted transgressors”

This is what I am able to understand on this subject and Allah Knows Best.

Sailor

Yorba Linda, CA

#36789 Oct 16, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
You are free to believe in whatever you want and there is no restriction on your imaginations.
01. What you are saying is as if Jews are a separate class of humans distinguished from others and God has a special provision and a special law for them.
02. God does not care about other people and other races as to where they live, where they go and what happens to them.
But He always keeps track of His precious Jews and sees to it that they are protected and be saved in the end.
03. This is “Jews centric” theory of humanity, which has no reality.
04. All humans are progeny of same pair of Adam and Eve and there is no per see superiority of any race and any people over others.
05. Those who follow Laws and Commandments of God, find His favor and those who reject and follow other path earn His displeasures.
06. God has been very kind to Jews and gave them much more chance than any other nations. He send amongst them more prophets and messengers than any other nations.
But Jews have not realized the blessings of God and became enemies of these prophets and messenger.
Persecuting prophets of God and Messengers of God and killing them has become a “routine work” for the Jews.
07. The last but one nail was their rejection of Jesus Christ, they continue to reject him even after 2000 years an there is no possibility that they will have “change of heart” in near future. Those who wish it are naïve and over simpletons.
08. And Final nail came when these Jews rejected the Last and Final messenger of God who appeared in Arabia 1400 years back. They tried to do to him the same which they tried to do to Jesus, but were thwarted in their attempt by God.
09. Yes, they will not perish, they shall continue to live till the End of World, when Jesus shall return to earth and Anti Christ shall rise and most of Jews shall follow Anti Christ and not Jesus Christ!!
10. Therefore any one who is in false hope that Jews overwhelmingly will either Accept Jesus Christ or Last Prophet as their prophet is living in fool’s paradise.
11. That does not mean than on individual level, some Jews shall not become followers of Jesus or of Last Prophet. Many of them shall find and follow the True Path, but majority of them shall continue to be “perverted transgressors”
This is what I am able to understand on this subject and Allah Knows Best.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son. That whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

God loves the entire world.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#36790 Oct 16, 2012
Sailor wrote:
<quoted text>
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son. That whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
God loves the entire world.
Thank you for the rejoinder....but we Muslims do believe in Jesus and his mission.

But his mission as he outlined, not the one which St. Paul devised for him.

Yes God loves entire world.... but He loves More who follow His Prophets and walk in His ways.

It is His love and Mercy to every one that He bestows things of this world to every one, be he a believer or rejector of God

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