Part 1: Swami Aksharananda's Irrational Discourse about Anil Azeez

[Roger Williams]

Dear Editor,
Aksharananda (SN 8/24/07) returns to the Anil Azeez “song” debate, even guiltier than before of fathomless hypocrisy. Firstly, he again hacks a swathe of accusation against Christianity, his arguments illustrating a disturbing level of naiveté and misinformation. Paragraph denies the factual problem that Human Rights Watch (http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/globalcaste/c... ) has with Hinduism as culture/religion. Swami asks the question:“At a minimum, why shouldn't these faiths be challenged or at least be brought within the purview of rational discourse?” Apparently, such “challenges” should exclude the horrors of Hinduism/Hindu Nationalism and the pathological propensity of that faith to assign its subjects and objects into racial/social classes, and degrade dissenters (see “The Rig Veda does refer to caste”; http://www.stabroeknews.com/index.pl/article... and the book “Apartheid in India” by V.T. Rajshekar). Thirdly, we can appreciate the depth of Aksharananda’s duplicity by contemplating the IRO meeting of June 2005 on “How to propagate faith without offence”. There, many non-Christians advocated censorship. Among the objective criteria decided on were:(a) Respect for the truth,(b) Respect for freedom of speech; (c) Respect for egalitarian democracy; (d) Non-preferential treatment, and no victimization, for persons of differing religious persuasions relative to issues of procedure, protocol and law, and; (e) Respect for the rule of law and constitutional provisions regarding freedom of association, freedom of religion, freedom of expression. How significant is this, and especially relative to “truth”? The principle cited was: I may disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it! Mangalwadi chooses to express his deliverance from Hinduism this way:“Empires that have lost credibility and the moral right to exist can continue to exist like buildings with poor foundations or trees with rotten roots. They collapse only when a tremor or a flood hits them. Likewise, untrue ideologies tend to continue until truth liberates their victims.” Dr. Joseph D'Souza ("Historical Indian Elections 2004 and the hand of God!"; http://www.aiccindia.org/news/election.htm ) concurs. Fourthly, therefore, Anil Azeez’s own choice of words pales in comparison to those of Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, the Architect of the Indian Constitution. Ambedkar, a Hindu, would consider Azeez’s words a confirmation of his own in the online book “What Congress and Gandhi have done to Untouchables”:“Hinduism is a veritable chamber of horrors. The sanctity and infallibility of the Vedas, Smritis and Shastras, the iron law of caste, the heartless law of karma and the senseless law of status by birth are to the Untouchables veritable instruments of torture which Hinduism has forged against untouchables. These very instruments which have mutilated; blasted and blighted the lives of the Untouchables are to be found intact and untarnished in the bosom of Gandhism." Azeez is no guiltier than Ambedkar, whose words indict a culture which is still propagated by Aksharananda’s RSS, a group of intellectual terrorists who guard their mission (see “The Foreign Exchange of Hate”; http://www.stopfundinghate.org/sacw/ ) with “evangelical zeal”. The Christian rationale for Azeez’s fervent declaration is found at Colossians 3:8-11. Nothing ever changes in Hinduism, so to the extent that his reference to “krishna” represents spiritual, historical and de-facto truth, then to condemn him is hypocritical. If as Aksharananda suggests “Verbal and physical violence are inseparable” then in Hinduism we have the world’s deadliest religion, because its words define a structure aimed at oppressing 300 million Dalits. Where there is a respect for the truth, we are all safe! You cannot “ban” what is “true” to protect your own untruth! Thirteen other errors in Aksharananda’s reasoning are in Part 2.

[george]

actually yours is an irrational discourse and not swamiji's

[Veronica]

Apparently, such “challenges” should exclude the horrors of Hinduism/Hindu Nationalism and the pathological propensity of that faith to assign its subjects and objects into racial/social classes, and degrade dissenters (see “The Rig Veda does refer to caste”;QUOTE Its advisable first to learn Sanskrit and read the Vedas yourself or seek advise as to which interpretation of the Vedas is correct. I am sure you’ll be astonished at the wealth of knowledge considering the age in which it was written and why science is turning more and more to the Vedas for information. There are many widespread misinterpretations that’s advocated by the so-called scholars and politicians who’s agenda is/ was highly dubious.Firsthand information is preferably to second-hand information. The caste system was all about professions and keeping certain professions in the community for example a blacksmith’s son will most likely become or be encouraged to be a blacksmith. A child of an intellectual will be encouraged to be one himself but that does not mean that the son of the blacksmith can not become an intellectual or the child born in an intellectual family automatically be an intellectual.

[vex]

Veronica, a big hi and how you is doin, dear I was kinda mad wen I mention caste system but you is very learned in these tings so you can lecture dem guys. Keep warm cause it getting cold, man sis dat guy sa long winded, a bored wid it, tek care and keep the dogs warm.

[Veronica]

vex wrote:

Veronica, a big hi and how you is doin, dear I was kinda mad wen I mention caste system but you is very learned in these tings so you can lecture dem guys. Keep warm cause it getting cold, man sis dat guy sa long winded, a bored wid it, tek care and keep the dogs warm.

Hello sweetheart I had spent 10 days in Spain, my son lives there, maybe I’ll go and live there myself. Indeed its getting cold and yes this guy needs a lot of words to express himself.
Dear Vex I don’t know much and am always searching for knowledge. What I have learned so far, usually makes me angry at the white man and pissed off at the coloured man for buying into their BS. Knowledge that had belonged to the coloured man has been destroyed by these bastards or misinterpreted by them. I had always thought the caste system was about colour until I began reading all kind of books and looked at educative programme. I don’t know what your beliefs are but as a Guyanese being exposed to Muslims, Hindus and Christians I just liked religion, to top it all my husband was Jewish. I read books about these and other religions. If you have young children it might be interesting to expose them to Vedic Maths. http://www.vedicmaths.org/Introduction/Tutori...
It’s a very simple way of doing maths. They would have fun with it, check it out and tell me if I am wrong. Tell me something about yourself love, what have you been up to?

[Popatlall]

Just checking

[Popatlall]

Can Guyana stop a Venezuelan military incursion? I doubt it.

[Roger Williams]

george wrote:

actually yours is an irrational discourse and not swamiji's

Sorry, George, it gets worse ...
See Part 2 at http://www.topix.net/forum/world/guyana/TPRKP...

[Roger Williams]

Veronica wrote:

Apparently, such “challenges” should exclude the horrors of Hinduism/Hindu Nationalism and the pathological propensity of that faith to assign its subjects and objects into racial/social classes, and degrade dissenters ...

Ronnie, how do your comments line up with Dr. Ambedkar's?: This is what he says ...

"Hinduism is a veritable chamber of horrors. The sanctity and infallibility of the Vedas, Smritis and Shastras, the iron law of caste, the heartless law of karma and the senseless law of status by birth are to the Untouchables veritable instruments of torture which Hinduism has forged against untouchables. These very instruments which have mutilated; blasted and blighted the lives of the Untouchables are to be found intact and untarnished in the bosom of Gandhism."

So, to repeat, nothing ever changes in Hinduism, so to the extent that his reference to “krishna” in his song "In Jesus Meh Can't Die" represents spiritual, historical and de-facto truth, then to condemn Azeez ... or me ... is hypocritical.

[cheongsam]

Hi Roger Williams,It's snowing here at the moment, and how are things in Georgetown? Thanks for starting this conversation from land of the mighty Rorima. Some followers of Swamis think they can do no wrong and you should hear of the discourses and infighting in this religion in some movements, it even makes some widely watched tv documentaries here from sexual abuse to their own interpetations of scripture. If you saw the movie "Water" you would know what I mean.

[cheongsam]

Veronica wrote:

<quoted text>Hello sweetheart I had spent 10 days in Spain, my son lives there, maybe I’ll go and live there myself. Indeed its getting cold and yes this guy needs a lot of words to express himself.
Dear Vex I don’t know much and am always searching for knowledge. What I have learned so far, usually makes me angry at the white man and pissed off at the coloured man for buying into their BS. Knowledge that had belonged to the coloured man has been destroyed by these bastards or misinterpreted by them. I had always thought the caste system was about colour until I began reading all kind of books and looked at educative programme. I don’t know what your beliefs are but as a Guyanese being exposed to Muslims, Hindus and Christians I just liked religion, to top it all my husband was Jewish. I read books about these and other religions. If you have young children it might be interesting to expose them to Vedic Maths. http://www.vedicmaths.org/Introduction/Tutori...
It’s a very simple way of doing maths. They would have fun with it, check it out and tell me if I am wrong. Tell me something about yourself love, what have you been up to?

Shalom Veronica, Mah Nishmah? My boss is jewish so I know a little bit. Have you read the Torah? I'm trying to get the movie "Yentl" I saw it many years ago when I first met my husband, Barbara Streisand was great, a must see. She disguises as a boy to learn the scripture and then she falls in love, it's a great movie.

[vex]

Veronica wrote:

<quoted text>Hello sweetheart I had spent 10 days in Spain, my son lives there, maybe I’ll go and live there myself. Indeed its getting cold and yes this guy needs a lot of words to express himself.
Dear Vex I don’t know much and am always searching for knowledge. What I have learned so far, usually makes me angry at the white man and pissed off at the coloured man for buying into their BS. Knowledge that had belonged to the coloured man has been destroyed by these bastards or misinterpreted by them. I had always thought the caste system was about colour until I began reading all kind of books and looked at educative programme. I don’t know what your beliefs are but as a Guyanese being exposed to Muslims, Hindus and Christians I just liked religion, to top it all my husband was Jewish. I read books about these and other religions. If you have young children it might be interesting to expose them to Vedic Maths. http://www.vedicmaths.org/Introduction/Tutori...
It’s a very simple way of doing maths. They would have fun with it, check it out and tell me if I am wrong. Tell me something about yourself love, what have you been up to?

Hi me dear and how the cold it biting hay right now. First snow a de season. Well love me volunteer for the Santo Clause Parade last week and a lil burnout wid all the deliveries at UPS. A grow up poor child na know me father a had to find food from 8yrs so I grow up on the streets. It was very bad so I had to tell alotta lies in school about me upbringing. Me poor mother wuz misguided but she catch sheself intime and was lucky to come here, so I never sleep ina bed till I come here ya see but tings got better and better wid hard work and study. I married to a Jamaican and I have two daughters, one just start Universtiy gyal I cry at she graduation it was so moving. THe other one is in high school. Me dog passed away in March dis year so we lost a family member we bury it with dignity so dat's me life. Spain is lovely dear Picasso and such and I saw lovely scenes from Benny Hill. Take care.

[Veronica]

Roger Williams wrote:

<quoted text>
Ronnie, how do your comments line up with Dr. Ambedkar's?: This is what he says ...
"Hinduism is a veritable chamber of horrors. The sanctity and infallibility of the Vedas, Smritis and Shastras, the iron law of caste, the heartless law of karma and the senseless law of status by birth are to the Untouchables veritable instruments of torture which Hinduism has forged against untouchables. These very instruments which have mutilated; blasted and blighted the lives of the Untouchables are to be found intact and untarnished in the bosom of Gandhism."
So, to repeat, nothing ever changes in Hinduism, so to the extent that his reference to “krishna” in his song "In Jesus Meh Can't Die" represents spiritual, historical and de-facto truth, then to condemn Azeez ... or me ... is hypocritical.

Apparently, such “challenges” should exclude the horrors of Hinduism/Hindu Nationalism and the pathological propensity of that faith to assign its subjects and objects into racial/social classes, and degrade dissenters (see “The Rig Veda does refer to caste”; I was quoting you. My advice is to read the Vedas for yourself in Sanskrit and not to buy into anything anyone who claims to be an expert says. Or at least read many translations and see where they differ, nothing more.

[Veronica]

cheongsam wrote:

<quoted text>
Shalom Veronica, Mah Nishmah? My boss is jewish so I know a little bit. Have you read the Torah? I'm trying to get the movie "Yentl" I saw it many years ago when I first met my husband, Barbara Streisand was great, a must see. She disguises as a boy to learn the scripture and then she falls in love, it's a great movie.

&#1513;&#1500;&#14 93;&#1501; = shalom.
Mah Shlomech/ how are you/ how is your welfare? I have read a bit of the Torah, Talmud, Zohar and Kabbalah. As a matter of fact I was trying to teach my self Hebrew but have a problem writing from right to left and they don’t really use vowels. The alphabet consists of 22 consonants. There are begin and end letters some indications are used for vowels. Most confusing for me. I had once entertained the idea to become Jewish, but gave that notion up.
Mah Nishmah?/ whats up? Nothing much dear. I’ve read a book called “The Power of Now” years ago and have recently reread it and am busy practising to remain in the now/ the present moment, I’ve followed this up with A New Earth by the same author Eckhart Tolle. Also reading H.P. Blavatsky’s The Secret Doctrine. My going to bed book is “A course in Miracles” it have nothing to do with miracles in the direct sense of the word. You can leaf through this book and the secret doctrine on-line, if you chooses. Let me say firsthand I love to read and reads many books simultaneously. I get bored with one subject easily so I have to switch regularly.
Yes I know the movie, it was quite nice to see Streisand trying to be an awkward boy, just to get an education. Quite funny and entertaining.
Kol tuv/ be well.

[Veronica]

vex wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi me dear and how the cold it biting hay right now. First snow a de season. Well love me volunteer for the Santo Clause Parade last week and a lil burnout wid all the deliveries at UPS. A grow up poor child na know me father a had to find food from 8yrs so I grow up on the streets. It was very bad so I had to tell alotta lies in school about me upbringing. Me poor mother wuz misguided but she catch sheself intime and was lucky to come here, so I never sleep ina bed till I come here ya see but tings got better and better wid hard work and study. I married to a Jamaican and I have two daughters, one just start Universtiy gyal I cry at she graduation it was so moving. THe other one is in high school. Me dog passed away in March dis year so we lost a family member we bury it with dignity so dat's me life. Spain is lovely dear Picasso and such and I saw lovely scenes from Benny Hill. Take care.

Wow, was this in Guyana? Come on, you are pulling my legs. You at 8yrs have to find food? Which year was this? I can imagine if this were true the shame you must have felt and the bravo with which you carried yourself just to make sure no one sees through the act. We were not rich, but not poor either I knew of some people who had less than us, but the children did not have to find food, yes some children slept on a mattress on the floor most times because the houses were too small.
We had three bedrooms, one for my parents, one for the boys and one for the girls, I shared a double bed with my older sister, my eldest sister had a single bed. The boys had bunk beds. Many women with children were left by the children’s father, those women were strong and did a damn fine job bringing up their children.

I can imagine the pride you felt at your daughter’s graduation. Nice to know your kids are doing well. Sad to hear of the loss of your pet. Would you take another pet? I’ve had at one time 8 cats was happy and sad at their passing, from the 8, one has remained and my son brought his cat from Spain to me so I have two cats with my two dogs. I know I will not take any more pets when they are gone. In any case I will be too old. We have some cold days and some mild days, you guys have real cold winters we don’t, compare to yours. I have found a method that seems to work, when I begin to feel cold I would say:“I am to experience cold not to suffer under it” so I experience the cold yet remain not effected. It becomes quite enjoyable to feel the wind on my face. Like this evening when I went shopping, the wind was cold, yet was a clear crisp beautiful evening. We have Saint Nicolas 5 & 6 December and of course Christmas. I don’t bother with either. Have also stopped decorating for Christmas it is nice to decorate but the taking down and putting away is always a problem.
Care yourself don’t melt down or burnout, just enjoy. A wonderful life situation to you dear.
How's your Mom now?

[cheongsam]

Vex Benny Hill is funny. How about Oliver Samuels?

[cheongsam]

Shalom Veronica nice to know your intersted in the Ascended Masters and Mystical lore,I am too. A course in Miracles was a recent Deepak Chopra recomendation on Oprah and I just started reading "New Earth" is this coincidence or what!!! I also get bored but have been steady with yoga for many years. Did you know Egyptians also practicced yoga? You can visit www.crystalinks.com a vast site on these and other subjects. I'm glad you like Yentl, I saw it with my parents when I was a wee lass, it's on VHS but hopefully it will come out on DVD, it was also a Broadway play. What's your favorite play, mine is "Porgy and Bess" take care.

[cheongsam]

People!People Who Need People! Are The Luckiest People In The World"

[Veronica]

cheongsam wrote:

Shalom Veronica nice to know your intersted in the Ascended Masters and Mystical lore,I am too. A course in Miracles was a recent Deepak Chopra recomendation on Oprah and I just started reading "New Earth" is this coincidence or what!!! I also get bored but have been steady with yoga for many years. Did you know Egyptians also practicced yoga? You can visit www.crystalinks.com a vast site on these and other subjects. I'm glad you like Yentl, I saw it with my parents when I was a wee lass, it's on VHS but hopefully it will come out on DVD, it was also a Broadway play. What's your favorite play, mine is "Porgy and Bess" take care.

I finished A New Earth yesterday. Wow.Oh dear I had all kind of days, my religious days, a lot of books over every known religion I have read, there were my yoga days: Raja, jnana, Bhakti my Yogananda days and hatha yoga. my New age days, crystals, oils, gems and favourite author Stuart Wilde his best book to me is The Force I’m very impressed with Krishnamurti. Messed around a bit with Sufi philosophy, was a Rosicrucian, after that a Baha’I, moved onto Wicca & paganism etc, you name it I tried it or read about it. Science of Mind from Ernest Holmes was my book for the year 2004. Now I mess around with the Vedas and the books I mentioned before. My favourite play, well I don’t have one, I am easily impressed but lose interest just as easily.
However am holding on to the power of now I find without knowledge of the power of now one will not benefit from a course in miracles. Will check out the site you mentioned.

[cheongsam]

Shalom, wow congrats you finished, I hope my speed reading skills gets me done by years end. I grew up with Rosicrucian parents and served as Colombe till 18, finished studying art, travelled around London, Paris,Guyana, the Caribbean, then worked as a Textile Designer, Freelance model, crazy person and got some time to read. It took $700.00 and a year to read the Bhagavat Purana, but it was cool, can't live that way ancient, philisophical and powerless. Veronica we are on the same wavelength today I was just listening to my fav daily meditation song "The Power" by Snap. When I'm not reading life is in the music, "Common Let's Sweat Babe, Let The Music Take Control Let The Rythmn Move You"- Afro in me blood gyal, really I do Kundalini Yoga and I'm also studying "Japji Sahib" teachings of Guru Nanak and yea yea I pick it up and put it down to look after my cute sons and husband and cook and clean up. Are your decorations up, we did it yeaterday and my fav album for the season is Harry Belafonte kinda reminds me of Guyana. What's for dinner? take care.