The Russian Federation has made yet...

Statement by Georgian Foreign Ministry The Russian Federation has made yet another very dangerous step, which aims to legalize factual annexation of Abkhazia and the Tskhinvali region/South Ossetia - ' integral ... via Rustavi 2

[Canuck]

Good bye Abkhazia. Farewell South Ossetia.
Goggia just got a lot smaller. LOL
Srakasvilli will now make a complete fool of himself and cry to the UN, European Union, OSCE, North-Atlantic Alliance, UN Secretary General’s Group of Friends, CIS and the international community as a whole to employ all resources at their disposal in order to stop the process undertaken by Russia.

[koba]

my friend canuck 300000 georgian people were emigrates in their own country,this is not a joke you fool, russia will change the plan beacause georgia is very strong country,yes we can fight ,and we dont care ,if they have so may soldiers...we are fighting for freedom since ancient ages

[Robespierre]

NATO and the UN f*ck*d up big time with the Kosovo question, and this will come to haunt them forever.

They gave a blanck cheque to any seccessionist movement, to get independence.

I sincerely hope that some of the countries that have already recognised Kosovo, will experience first hand what Serbia went through.

As regard to Sakhashvili, he is now just a little tin-pot dictator who send opponents in prison, close TV stations and censure the media, when he hasn't his rivals executed.

[uther pendragon]

Robespierre wrote:

NATO and the UN f*ck*d up big time with the Kosovo question, and this will come to haunt them forever.
They gave a blanck cheque to any seccessionist movement, to get independence.
I sincerely hope that some of the countries that have already recognised Kosovo, will experience first hand what Serbia went through.
As regard to Sakhashvili, he is now just a little tin-pot dictator who send opponents in prison, close TV stations and censure the media, when he hasn't his rivals executed.

Do the Catalonians and Basques get their own countries? Certainly Ireland should drive the Brits from the north (and hopefully Scotland and Wales can be liberated as well).

[Robespierre]

uther pendragon wrote:

<quoted text>
Do the Catalonians and Basques get their own countries? Certainly Ireland should drive the Brits from the north (and hopefully Scotland and Wales can be liberated as well).

I must defend the British position on that one.
Unless a country (Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) demonstrates that the majority of its voters wants independence, it stays British.

Southern Ireland catholics won the vote early last century and became independent. If the North (Eire) acquires a republican majority, it will be granted independence too.

Scotland is at a cross-road. If it demonstrates that a majority is for independence, that will be granted. Same for Wales. Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales already have their own parliament to run their domestic affairs.

Things could be more messy in Spain, France or even Italy that have violent separatist movements.
The Basque ETA wants to obtain it through terrorism. There seems to be no provision in the Spanish constitution to give independence to a province, so the Basques and Catalan will have to get it by force.

The Corsican scenario is the same for France, that has also a Basque region, plus separatists in Britany.

Italy has independentists in the North (Northern Ligue) and the South (Sicily). If the Kosovo model is adopted, all of these SHOULD become independent. But don't hold your breath!!!

[rhinoceros beetle]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
I must defend the British position on that one.
Unless a country (Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) demonstrates that the majority of its voters wants independence, it stays British.
Southern Ireland catholics won the vote early last century and became independent. If the North (Eire) acquires a republican majority, it will be granted independence too...

Our aspiring statesman in training, Robespierre, would do well to verify facts. You have some fundamental misconceptions.'Eire' is in fact the Irish legal name of the Republic of Ireland (South). On the whole, VERY unacademic of you.
Judging from the amount of time you must spend on these forums, do you do anything other than philosophize 23 hrs/day? I don't think the REAL Robespierre smoked Kush to fuel his thinking.

[uther pendragon]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
I must defend the British position on that one.
Unless a country (Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) demonstrates that the majority of its voters wants independence, it stays British.
Southern Ireland catholics won the vote early last century and became independent. If the North (Eire) acquires a republican majority, it will be granted independence too.
Scotland is at a cross-road. If it demonstrates that a majority is for independence, that will be granted. Same for Wales. Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales already have their own parliament to run their domestic affairs.
Things could be more messy in Spain, France or even Italy that have violent separatist movements.
The Basque ETA wants to obtain it through terrorism. There seems to be no provision in the Spanish constitution to give independence to a province, so the Basques and Catalan will have to get it by force.
The Corsican scenario is the same for France, that has also a Basque region, plus separatists in Britany.
Italy has independentists in the North (Northern Ligue) and the South (Sicily). If the Kosovo model is adopted, all of these SHOULD become independent. But don't hold your breath!!!

Unless the model only applies to Russian allies like the Serbs. Notice how no one offered independence for Kurdistan when Saddam fell.

[Robespierre]

rhinoceros beetle wrote:

<quoted text>
'Eire' is in fact the Irish legal name of the Republic of Ireland (South).

You are absolutely right, Ulster is the correct name from Northern Ireland.

I am glad that you pay attention!

[Robespierre]

uther pendragon wrote:

<quoted text>
Unless the model only applies to Russian allies like the Serbs. Notice how no one offered independence for Kurdistan when Saddam fell.

Very trye. But no one will "offer" you independence, you have to fight for it.

Kosovo created a precedent. It was severed from the territory of a sovereign country, and given independence, in spite of the UN Charter and apparently with UN blessing too.

Of course, no everyone recognises it, but the process seems irreversible now. Watch out for Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transniepr, and a few others.

[uther pendragon]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
Very trye. But no one will "offer" you independence, you have to fight for it.
Kosovo created a precedent. It was severed from the territory of a sovereign country, and given independence, in spite of the UN Charter and apparently with UN blessing too.
Of course, no everyone recognises it, but the process seems irreversible now. Watch out for Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transniepr, and a few others.

You have to fight for it against a minor power. Tibet can fight all they want. Since the Kurds were carved up among different nations no one wants to open that can of worms. Stealing territory from weak nations is simpler.
How many nations does Albania need anyway?

[Robespierre]

uther pendragon wrote:

<quoted text>
How many nations does Albania need anyway?

Looks like they cut the wings of Milosevich's Greater Serbia dream, only to give them to the partisans of Greater Albania.

Milosevich was a sonofabith, but now we will have the first muslim nation in the EU!!

Well done!!!

[Observer]

Robespierre wrote:

NATO and the UN f*ck*d up big time with the Kosovo question, and this will come to haunt them forever.
They gave a blanck cheque to any seccessionist movement, to get independence.
I sincerely hope that some of the countries that have already recognised Kosovo, will experience first hand what Serbia went through.
As regard to Sakhashvili, he is now just a little tin-pot dictator who send opponents in prison, close TV stations and censure the media, when he hasn't his rivals executed.

Oh - you mean he is just like Putin? I thought you were under the opinion that Putin is a democrat? Sorry ...my mistake. DICK HEAD!

[Observer]

uther pendragon wrote:

<quoted text>
Do the Catalonians and Basques get their own countries? Certainly Ireland should drive the Brits from the north (and hopefully Scotland and Wales can be liberated as well).

Liberated from what?

[uther pendragon]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
Looks like they cut the wings of Milosevich's Greater Serbia dream, only to give them to the partisans of Greater Albania.
Milosevich was a sonofabith, but now we will have the first muslim nation in the EU!!
Well done!!!

Why would they take Albania or any of the mini-Albanias ahead of Turkey? I do not see the EU taking another Moslem nation ahead of them.
The western policy towards the Balkans seems to be in favor of chaos when they should desire a strong state to coalesce (a greater Serbia).

[Observer]

Canuck wrote:

Good bye Abkhazia. Farewell South Ossetia.
Goggia just got a lot smaller. LOL
Srakasvilli will now make a complete fool of himself and cry to the UN, European Union, OSCE, North-Atlantic Alliance, UN Secretary General’s Group of Friends, CIS and the international community as a whole to employ all resources at their disposal in order to stop the process undertaken by Russia.

Interesting comment Canuck. Now let me see ...if all the national minorities in Russia wanted to declare independence then Russia would be the size of say Germany and Ukraine combined...if that. So much for Russian respect for self determination of minorities. The only thing Russians know about their minorities is how to exterminate them! I suppose though that this solves your problem.

[Observer]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
I must defend the British position on that one.
Unless a country (Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) demonstrates that the majority of its voters wants independence, it stays British.
Southern Ireland catholics won the vote early last century and became independent. If the North (Eire) acquires a republican majority, it will be granted independence too.
Scotland is at a cross-road. If it demonstrates that a majority is for independence, that will be granted. Same for Wales. Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales already have their own parliament to run their domestic affairs.
Things could be more messy in Spain, France or even Italy that have violent separatist movements.
The Basque ETA wants to obtain it through terrorism. There seems to be no provision in the Spanish constitution to give independence to a province, so the Basques and Catalan will have to get it by force.
The Corsican scenario is the same for France, that has also a Basque region, plus separatists in Britany.
Italy has independentists in the North (Northern Ligue) and the South (Sicily). If the Kosovo model is adopted, all of these SHOULD become independent. But don't hold your breath!!!

Since when have you been interested in either democracy or the will of the people? You are a hypocrite and a pompous oaf.

[Observer]

rhinoceros beetle wrote:

<quoted text>
Our aspiring statesman in training, Robespierre, would do well to verify facts. You have some fundamental misconceptions.'Eire' is in fact the Irish legal name of the Republic of Ireland (South). On the whole, VERY unacademic of you.
Judging from the amount of time you must spend on these forums, do you do anything other than philosophize 23 hrs/day? I don't think the REAL Robespierre smoked Kush to fuel his thinking.

Robby boy is our very own "expert" on this forum on every subject it seems - except history and politics. He shines in his ignorance in both subjects. But then with him claiming to be French - what could we expect?

[Observer]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
I must defend the British position on that one.
Unless a country (Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) demonstrates that the majority of its voters wants independence, it stays British.
Southern Ireland catholics won the vote early last century and became independent. If the North (Eire) acquires a republican majority, it will be granted independence too.
Scotland is at a cross-road. If it demonstrates that a majority is for independence, that will be granted. Same for Wales. Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales already have their own parliament to run their domestic affairs.
Things could be more messy in Spain, France or even Italy that have violent separatist movements.
The Basque ETA wants to obtain it through terrorism. There seems to be no provision in the Spanish constitution to give independence to a province, so the Basques and Catalan will have to get it by force.
The Corsican scenario is the same for France, that has also a Basque region, plus separatists in Britany.
Italy has independentists in the North (Northern Ligue) and the South (Sicily). If the Kosovo model is adopted, all of these SHOULD become independent. But don't hold your breath!!!

In your rush to defend the men of Ulster in their democratic choice you omitted the little detail that Ulster was precisely created because there was a protestant majority in the 6 counties which make up the enclave. This majority was armed and encouraged by the British government in the early 1900s in order to ensure that Britain maintained a power base in the island of Ireland in the imminent expectation of Irish succession.
There was nothing democratic about Northern Ireland. That is what there was an uprising by the Irish nationalists who, quite correctly, have never accepted the division of their country. The average Brit does not give two stuffs about Northern Ireland and if there had ever been a referendum in Britain over the issue I have no doubt whatsoever that the British would have left the Northern Irish (Ulstermen) to their well deserved fate. Democracy has never had anything in common with Ulster, and this was exactly the reason for the troubles. And you voice your ignorant opinion about this in the same stupid and half-baked way as you do about most other subjects. God you are a moron!

[Stefan]

The question is, To be or not to be.

"Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing, end them."

Should a people have to suffer outrageously or should they end their troubles by separating. Even Shakespeare debated that question.

The real question is whether the population is ethnically entitled to decide if they separate or not. Ethnically entitled.

Hard question to agree upon.

[Robespierre]

Observer wrote:

<quoted text>
In your rush to defend the men of Ulster in their democratic choice you omitted the little detail that Ulster was precisely created because there was a protestant majority in the 6 counties which make up the enclave. This majority was armed and encouraged by the British government in the early 1900s in order to ensure that Britain maintained a power base in the island of Ireland in the imminent expectation of Irish succession.
There was nothing democratic about Northern Ireland. That is what there was an uprising by the Irish nationalists who, quite correctly, have never accepted the division of their country. The average Brit does not give two stuffs about Northern Ireland and if there had ever been a referendum in Britain over the issue I have no doubt whatsoever that the British would have left the Northern Irish (Ulstermen) to their well deserved fate. Democracy has never had anything in common with Ulster, and this was exactly the reason for the troubles. And you voice your ignorant opinion about this in the same stupid and half-baked way as you do about most other subjects. God you are a moron!

I don't need to be lectured about Ireland by a scumbag like you. That you consider the right of self-determination by the 6 northern counties as undemocratic is rather breath-taking from someone who always preach the virtues of democracy.

You are ready to sacrifice your pseudo democratic principles if it serves the catholics, eh? You are the one with an ignorant opinion, stupid polak!!