Georgian lessons for Belarusians

Oct 10, 2012 Full story: Charter97 45

Transparent elections recognized by the West are so rare on post-Soviet space, that considered to be a historical event.

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Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#41 Oct 18, 2012
ratko mladic wrote:
<quoted text>
Naturally the Fin-nazi Dr Phil would support terrorist thugs like the ones behind Beslan. What was done at Srebrenica was done to prevent similar terror attacks throughout the Balkans.
Don't really know where your info is from but Srebrenica was a terrible massacre of non-combatants that can never be justified. The Serbs are very strong minded militaristic people. I believe the protection force was Dutch and I know for sure they wanted to defend the UN designated safe haven for refugees the peacekeepers asked 17 times for air strikes and where turned down by a Japanese diplomat running that area of operations for the UN. De-classified info from Britain went like this the Dutch where ordered out and a British Special Air Service team in a hide recorded the events and utilized an emergency satellite radio that went directly to Prime Minister John Major who was so disturbed at the bulldozer carving holes and refugees being lined up and shot that he ordered any British hairier aircraft enforcing the no fly zone to engage the Serbian Arkan Tigers lead tank formation destroying the first couple of lead tanks and fighting vehicles. These unarmed refugees of woman, children, and seniors where no match for extreme Serbian nationalists. If this had been a Canadian unit we would have denied the order to leave and defended them to the last man. Such incidents happened on my tour in Pakrac, Croatia where 3 Brigades of Croats surrounded us and where preparing to ethnically cleanse the Serb community we dug in took un colors off, camouflaged up deployed TOW and mortar teams and the translator scared shitless said the Croat commander doesn't get why the Canadians are willing to die for them and after 3 days they left to fight on advancing Serb forces. The Krajina area was a reverse role we protected Croats from Serb forces and took some Canadian casualties but every Serb who engaged us was immediately neutralized by snipers.(The national film board of Canada released videos recently declassified that show the video footage, and confirm all) when you justify the raw murder of babies and seniors it shows a heart filled with hate I feel sad for you because your demons will never let you know peace.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#42 Oct 18, 2012
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
All Nato countries are but stooges for the USA,
Erdogan is a yes man, a lackey of the USA and Rasmussen should be stood up against a brick wall and shot like the dog he is.
But, likewise I respect your opinion.
NATO simply offers free countries an option of having smaller militaries so their nations money can be spent on beneficial pathways for their citizens. Each nation has a say, yes the US is the largest by sure size and finances. I believe the US military is not financially feasible and major cuts of up to 50% will be inevitable. Recall the Warsaw Pact was the rival to NATO, now Natos role is becoming political and I suppose its an evolution. As Warsaw Pact is dead and with China growing and smaller nations technology advancing there is pros and cons. Britain now shares an aircraft carrier with France to save costs... In Afghanistan German and Romanian troops refused their duty to conduct combat activities until the Taliban attacked them at their bases, it's questionable who controls NATO although the US is a big player the NATO council will decide the path through each countries political leaders direction. In Canada we have a tiny military and enjoy a world class health care system, welfare system and beautiful pension plan although not perfect the ulterior is huge military spending and a major drop in the standard of living. Croatia in NATO stabilizes the Balkans and will force any nationalist from Serbia to resort to diplomatic negotiations. Pros and cons. Ukraine in NATO would also deter previous threats and domination by Russia but I suppose its a lot more complicated with long history.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#43 Oct 18, 2012
ratko mladic wrote:
<quoted text>
Malaysia is probably the most moderate Islamic nation. Turkey is about as democratic with its ethnic minorities like the Kurds as was Iraq under Saddam. Being in NATO has not made them any less genocidal. The further removed from Asia Minor and the Middle East the less the extremism.
It is not surprising that Washington armed radical Moslems. Remember we also armed the mujahedeen in Afghanistan thus bringing Al Quieda and the Taliban to power (or letting our "allies" the Pakistanis and Saudis put them there). We do whatever the extremists in Saudi Arabia tell us really. Why do we mistrust Iran and Iraq? Because they are the Saudis rivals for dominance in the gulf region. Saddam and Ahmedinejad were/are always happy to sell us their oil.
The problem in the Balkans was around long before communism. The Ottoman Turks and the Austro-Hungarians kept that region from forming into strong nation states like the rest of Europe did. That is the genesis of the problem there. The void had nothing to do with communism. Bosniak Moslems are not a nationality. They are simply Serbs and Croats whose ancestors converted during Turkish rule. NATO has no business creating religiously pure Islamic states in Europe.
Agreed, if we pull the map out there are moderate and liberal Muslim states abroad. I think keeping Turkey in NATO allows NATO a strategic basing location and allows Turkey to not backtrack on Ottoman Empire crusades. Although the Sunni vs Shia situation is another can of worms. Kosovo was infiltrated hard by Albanian Muslims wife mafia tactics I do believe the Serbs did get a raw deal there I compare Kosovo to Serbia as Jerusalem is to Israelis. If the Serbs have a over a thousand year history there and the Muslims a 40ish year history than the situation is clearer but no crystal clear answer on dealing with it. Russia's close ties with Serbia do not help and Germany's very close ties to Croatia didn't help anything either the Germans should have been scorned hard when they gave Croatia brand new leopard battle tanks in the middle of embargos. Also we where lucky world war three didn't break out. Turkey even sided with the Muslims eventually and Greece with the Serbs so very problematic.
As for the Cold War arming of countries that was easily a chess game from Washington and Moscow all over the globe, these people that create conflict should have there sons deployed first those losses would humble even the cockiest powerhouse politicians.
ratko mladic

Lake Worth, FL

#44 Oct 19, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
NATO simply offers free countries an option of having smaller militaries so their nations money can be spent on beneficial pathways for their citizens. Each nation has a say, yes the US is the largest by sure size and finances. I believe the US military is not financially feasible and major cuts of up to 50% will be inevitable. Recall the Warsaw Pact was the rival to NATO, now Natos role is becoming political and I suppose its an evolution. As Warsaw Pact is dead and with China growing and smaller nations technology advancing there is pros and cons. Britain now shares an aircraft carrier with France to save costs... In Afghanistan German and Romanian troops refused their duty to conduct combat activities until the Taliban attacked them at their bases, it's questionable who controls NATO although the US is a big player the NATO council will decide the path through each countries political leaders direction. In Canada we have a tiny military and enjoy a world class health care system, welfare system and beautiful pension plan although not perfect the ulterior is huge military spending and a major drop in the standard of living. Croatia in NATO stabilizes the Balkans and will force any nationalist from Serbia to resort to diplomatic negotiations. Pros and cons. Ukraine in NATO would also deter previous threats and domination by Russia but I suppose its a lot more complicated with long history.
The expansion of NATO is hardly a good thing. After the Warsaw Pact fell and the Soviet Union imploded Washington should have sought to encourage a new mutually beneficial relationship between east and west in Europe. By cluelessly expanding NATO eastward they instead encouraged the Kremlin to view them as a potential military threat. An attempt to rekindle the cold war from its own embers?

Besides the EU is wealthy and is under military threat from no one. They dominate Europe. Why do North Americans need to underwrite their defense?
ratko mladic

Lake Worth, FL

#45 Oct 19, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't really know where your info is from but Srebrenica was a terrible massacre of non-combatants that can never be justified. The Serbs are very strong minded militaristic people. I believe the protection force was Dutch and I know for sure they wanted to defend the UN designated safe haven for refugees the peacekeepers asked 17 times for air strikes and where turned down by a Japanese diplomat running that area of operations for the UN. De-classified info from Britain went like this the Dutch where ordered out and a British Special Air Service team in a hide recorded the events and utilized an emergency satellite radio that went directly to Prime Minister John Major who was so disturbed at the bulldozer carving holes and refugees being lined up and shot that he ordered any British hairier aircraft enforcing the no fly zone to engage the Serbian Arkan Tigers lead tank formation destroying the first couple of lead tanks and fighting vehicles. These unarmed refugees of woman, children, and seniors where no match for extreme Serbian nationalists. If this had been a Canadian unit we would have denied the order to leave and defended them to the last man. Such incidents happened on my tour in Pakrac, Croatia where 3 Brigades of Croats surrounded us and where preparing to ethnically cleanse the Serb community we dug in took un colors off, camouflaged up deployed TOW and mortar teams and the translator scared shitless said the Croat commander doesn't get why the Canadians are willing to die for them and after 3 days they left to fight on advancing Serb forces. The Krajina area was a reverse role we protected Croats from Serb forces and took some Canadian casualties but every Serb who engaged us was immediately neutralized by snipers.(The national film board of Canada released videos recently declassified that show the video footage, and confirm all) when you justify the raw murder of babies and seniors it shows a heart filled with hate I feel sad for you because your demons will never let you know peace.
It was a civil war. There are always atrocities in civil wars. Look at the US Civil War as an example. They are always very bloody affairs. That is why the toppling of regimes is a bad thing and their evolution should be encouraged instead.

Bosniaks and Croats were no less responsible for such atrocities than... but if you believe the propaganda being fed to the media...

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