Georgian lessons for Belarusians

Oct 10, 2012 Full story: Charter97 45

Transparent elections recognized by the West are so rare on post-Soviet space, that considered to be a historical event.

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ratko mladic

Lake Worth, FL

#21 Oct 16, 2012
Irony wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny logic.
... Use Cuba's pretance as a fellow communist nation to deploy nukes countering the US placement of nukes in Turkey and abroad. Remember the other 100 battlefield nukes that even the ruskies realized after the fact they screwed up and needed to get them out because Fidel was clinically suicidal. Mutual Global destruction for one mans communist version of freedom. American bravery or guts can't be truly measured by current media or history books that leave out facts most being highly restricted intelligence knowledge that the world will never know. JFK looks like a national hero for being rational at the cost of stripping the CIA of its recklessness and ability to act on its own, recall he transferred lots of their duties to the defense establishment at which the prez is commander in chief thus respected regimentaly with out question. Judge the actions of the troops while serving abroad compare Russians to Americans and its a night and day contrast by acts of American kindness. Russians have no mercy on live stalk or non combatants. Even the Russian Afghan war they cyanided water supplies quite the contrast to the American hearts and minds campaign. When Russia invaded Georgia what was with their blue helmets? Pretending to be authorized by the United Nations as peacekeepers! What a media BS frenzy. They should have shown the Georgians defending their soveurnty by destroying the first wave of fighter bombers and a complete Russian tank column that was beginning to stage an offense. Ironic how the Russians stood down to the US Mediterranean fleet. Scared of getting embarrassing loses on global tv. The land the Russians took on the Black Sea has constructed new resorts all that drama for a vacation spot and South Ossetia's clear Russian corruption..........
JFK looks like a hero? Why? The whole purpose of shipping nukes to Cuba in the first place was to keep nukes out of Turkey. A move on the chessboard. Khrushchev got everything he wanted out of the Cuba Missile Crisis.

Like with the Bay of Pigs... Kennedy was totally outclassed.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#22 Oct 16, 2012
ratko mladic wrote:
Georgia was just a carbon copy of Serbia. HATO manufactured evidence of genocide as part of a naked land grab and carved up the Balkans allying itself with Iran and Al Quieda in the process. If it is ok for "the evil empire" to do it then it must also be ok when the Russian Federation follows the same playbook?
I was a young rifleman when Canada stood up to help by sending us with the United Nations Protection Force in 92-93 with CanBat 1 we entered Croatia first and our second Canadian Battle Group was south in Macedonia then Bosnia and lets make no mistake as out numbered and threatened with death by Croatian and equally Serbian forces all sides where ethnically cleansing the civilian populations as we disarmed executioners in mid kill of children and the old, I couldn't give the sweat of my balls for soldiers killing soldiers but like WW2 when evil men justify genocide as necessary and try to conceal it there will always be free men from nations who will defend the innocent. To deny genocide in this region means your an idiot and uneducated. One thing I strongly remember is being surrounded by Croatians and being fully prepared to fight to the death to protect the refugees who escaped their burning villages even when the translator ran in confusion we dug in and prepared for the worst. The Medak Pocket is considered still classified but after watching women get raped and murdered our forces where engaged and hell was unleashed upon those evil bastards. One small battalion repelled a large brigade and inflicted casualties that forced them to retreat leaving their wounded behind. International Police confirmed over 200 dead, Canadian side no KIA, all accounted for but before the bastards left they burned the refugees in barns alive. Quite a disgusting task for anyone to retrieve the remains and shine the light in the darkness. Like I say talk to any Serb or Croat who didn't flee his home land and you will not find a single genocide denier. Get educated.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#23 Oct 16, 2012
ratko mladic wrote:
<quoted text>
JFK looks like a hero? Why? The whole purpose of shipping nukes to Cuba in the first place was to keep nukes out of Turkey. A move on the chessboard. Khrushchev got everything he wanted out of the Cuba Missile Crisis.
Like with the Bay of Pigs... Kennedy was totally outclassed.
Contrare, NATO secured a free Muslim nation in its ranks, the chess moves of nukes is stupid in the first place no one wins. It was a war of ideology and at the end I support democracy over communism. Remember the Japanese attack on pearl harbour awakened a war machine the world has never scene, the side effect was a loose cannon CIA that expected JFK to send marines into Cuba after the bay of pigs. JFK did strip the CIA of a lot of power and we know now his decisions saved the world from a nuclear winter. There's probably a lot more you and I will never know. As for Cubans its great to see their government finally allow free travel effective today! Before today those same Cubans would be called traitors and jailed in communist fashion. Another slide to democracy. Democracy is not perfect but its better than Russian plan.
moonshine

United States

#24 Oct 16, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Another slide to democracy. Democracy is not perfect but its better than Russian plan.
So, you think the Russian plan is communism? LOL

Shouldn't you be posting a question at the presidential debates with the rest of the simpleminded yahoos?
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#25 Oct 16, 2012
ratko mladic wrote:
Georgia was just a carbon copy of Serbia. HATO manufactured evidence of genocide as part of a naked land grab and carved up the Balkans allying itself with Iran and Al Quieda in the process. If it is ok for "the evil empire" to do it then it must also be ok when the Russian Federation follows the same playbook?
Sure the Muslims set up a massacre and fooled the world but that didn't change the fact of 10% Serbs trying to ethnically cleanse the 90% Muslims in Kosovo only. I understand Kosovo should be Serbian but fact is the communist govt of old screwed that up. Doesn't justify killing everyone, there's other ways of getting it back. Killing noncombatants doesn't win over the free world just reminds us of the nazis. I was boots on the ground Canadian style with unprofor and Bosnian and Croatian genocides where very much real. Ironically I respected the Serb professionalism but either way all where guilty of wacking people they shouldn't. Un failed, NATO succeeded ironically with most of the same forces but a command that backed up threats. To deny genocide would be denying the existence if Arkan Tigers, Scorpion units and Ustasha forces. Medak pocket in Bosnia Croat ethnic cleansers fired on Canadian peacekeepers and got spanked, retreating off the battlefield. Had Canucks been in sebrinicia there would have been no massacre, as buckling to threats was never our way. Thus the mutual respect. I recall a Serbian second in command shooting a rpg 400 meters from me hitting our armoured carrier wounding 3. We let the Serbian police deal with it, they executed the shooter in a public market place. Breathe taking for a westerner but respect was earned by actions of saving civilian lives. The commanding officer told the whole village they where alive because we where there and to not fuck with us.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#26 Oct 16, 2012
moonshine wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you think the Russian plan is communism? LOL
Shouldn't you be posting a question at the presidential debates with the rest of the simpleminded yahoos?
When Putin originally took power he gave a speech to a theatre filled with KGB brotheran and told them they've waited along time but finally have the power. I shouldn't call his style communist its probably more mafia type organization with old soviet brains. Either way he doesn't fully regenerate Russia to its potential. Why are all the Moscow millionaires ex-KGB guys. Just saying. On the other hand you look at the states and I like Jesse Venturas comment of being one party away from communism! Corporations are too powerful and companies haven't found a limit to greed. Balance can be achieved in time but democracy as we know it remains the best option. Send your kids to school and they can be anything they want. Can't say the same in Putins realm.
shoeshine man

Lake Worth, FL

#27 Oct 17, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Contrare, NATO secured a free Muslim nation in its ranks, the chess moves of nukes is stupid in the first place no one wins. It was a war of ideology and at the end I support democracy over communism. Remember the Japanese attack on pearl harbour awakened a war machine the world has never scene, the side effect was a loose cannon CIA that expected JFK to send marines into Cuba after the bay of pigs. JFK did strip the CIA of a lot of power and we know now his decisions saved the world from a nuclear winter. There's probably a lot more you and I will never know. As for Cubans its great to see their government finally allow free travel effective today! Before today those same Cubans would be called traitors and jailed in communist fashion. Another slide to democracy. Democracy is not perfect but its better than Russian plan.
A free Moslem nation within its ranks? That one is funny. What Serbians and Croats were doing to Bosniak Moslems was not genocide. They were simply fighting a terrorist insurgency. What the Turks do to minority groups like the Kurds both in their own country and in cross border raids into Iran, Iraq and Syria is indeed genocide. Not much has changed since the days of the Ottomans.

As for the Bay of Pigs JFK could have called it all off or he could have chosen to support it with US troops. Either move is fine with me. To send the exiles in with promises of support and then stab them in the back... he chose the obviously dishonorable course.
shoeshine man

Lake Worth, FL

#28 Oct 17, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
When Putin originally took power he gave a speech to a theatre filled with KGB brotheran and told them they've waited along time but finally have the power. I shouldn't call his style communist its probably more mafia type organization with old soviet brains. Either way he doesn't fully regenerate Russia to its potential. Why are all the Moscow millionaires ex-KGB guys. Just saying. On the other hand you look at the states and I like Jesse Venturas comment of being one party away from communism! Corporations are too powerful and companies haven't found a limit to greed. Balance can be achieved in time but democracy as we know it remains the best option. Send your kids to school and they can be anything they want. Can't say the same in Putins realm.
Corporations are not too powerful. Since the dawn of the 20th century government bureaucrats have constantly sought more control for themselves over all segments of society. The official party, the Democratic Republicans with their revolving Presidency, has written the rules in such a way that big business, the labor unions, etc must pay off both parties every election cycle as the cost of doing business. That is the way Congress and the White House designed the current system.

A steady expansion of government control... at the free market's expense.

Since: Nov 09

Podolsk, Russia

#29 Oct 17, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Send your kids to school and they can be anything they want.
Really? lol.
Actually it`s easier to get a higher education in Putin`s realm than in USA, unless you are not a child of a millionier.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#30 Oct 17, 2012
Alexey25 wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? lol.
Actually it`s easier to get a higher education in Putin`s realm than in USA, unless you are not a child of a millionier.
I believe the recession has hurt the states and other nations, corporations have out sourced jobs out side North America and immigrants still arrive daily. If you chose to tell your children not to learn a trade or a higher education to make them selves more employable with decent jobs and benefits, logic would lead me to believe the educated immigrants will get whatever jobs remain over uneducated home grown citizens expecting good jobs. When the Chinese gentleman arrives with three university degrees and a master of English language employers get past the racism quick and feel lucky to have an over educated employee in their ranks.... How far does Russian degrees get you in North America half of them are bought and paid for so when the so called educated Russian comes he fails the equilancy tests and blames the English as a second language excuse as the prob.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#31 Oct 17, 2012
shoeshine man wrote:
<quoted text>
Corporations are not too powerful. Since the dawn of the 20th century government bureaucrats have constantly sought more control for themselves over all segments of society. The official party, the Democratic Republicans with their revolving Presidency, has written the rules in such a way that big business, the labor unions, etc must pay off both parties every election cycle as the cost of doing business. That is the way Congress and the White House designed the current system.
A steady expansion of government control... at the free market's expense.
Wow if your happy with large companies than its good for you. I'm alarmed at the Walmarts taking over and sourcing China for all their stock just because its cheaper, the right thing to do is to sacrifice some profit and employ your neighbour. Look at pharmaceutical corporations they have poisoned the medical system for profit- they do not want you cured but management of symptoms makes them trillions... Personally that's a disgrace. I'm seeing it in Canada to the doctors don't want testing to find the root cause of probs they ask "do u have benefits" and prescribe, prescribe perscribe. It's criminal and wrong in so many ways. As for unions believe me republicans hate unions and democrats love them the biggest financial giver to Obama is the IBEW (union electricians) when he was voted in he ordered 18 new warships to be built by unionized boilermakers and iron workers and cancelled Bushes private company tenderships. Recall BlackWater and XE services the republicans evened privatized the US Army for mercs! Obama shut most of them down too, Eric Prince left the USA because of it (these guys do not follow Geneva convention, they kill, kill, and kill). How many little corps did Bill Gates and now Apple buy out and shelve to make them super giants then outsource jobs. I could go on forever my friend, just my thoughts on the matter, but if you like shopping at Walmart then Ho Wing Chang smiles at you from China and sends his regards.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#32 Oct 17, 2012
shoeshine man wrote:
<quoted text>
A free Moslem nation within its ranks? That one is funny. What Serbians and Croats were doing to Bosniak Moslems was not genocide. They were simply fighting a terrorist insurgency. What the Turks do to minority groups like the Kurds both in their own country and in cross border raids into Iran, Iraq and Syria is indeed genocide. Not much has changed since the days of the Ottomans.
As for the Bay of Pigs JFK could have called it all off or he could have chosen to support it with US troops. Either move is fine with me. To send the exiles in with promises of support and then stab them in the back... he chose the obviously dishonorable course.
Ok I get Muslims aren't to popular, and before that blacks, and Koreans and Japanese and Germans. If you've been to turkey you would agree its the most liberal free Muslim state around with a million man army ready to protect that. Kurds keep bombing and shooting civilians any government would be forced to respond. By giving Kurds a free chunk if their country is the equivalent of the US giving Texas to Mexico or Nevada to the Apaches. Time for some to get out of the dark ages and assimilate or blend in for there own survival. In Canada we have tolerance and cultural centres everywhere if you respect the laws and don't blow up innocent people nobody cares if you go hang out in your cultural Center just don't preach or finance hate. As for Yugoslavia, the fall of communism left a void Slovenia seized the money the Serbs seized military asserts and in doing so killed Croatians. Muslims where collateral damage and believe it or not the US made distrust for the UN by arming the Muslims through the CIA. Only because the Serbs and Croats started wacking them when they where unarmed and not a threat. These Muslims are oddly enough blonde and blue eyed.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#33 Oct 18, 2012
shoeshine man wrote:
<quoted text>
Corporations are not too powerful. Since the dawn of the 20th century government bureaucrats have constantly sought more control for themselves over all segments of society. The official party, the Democratic Republicans with their revolving Presidency, has written the rules in such a way that big business, the labor unions, etc must pay off both parties every election cycle as the cost of doing business. That is the way Congress and the White House designed the current system.
A steady expansion of government control... at the free market's expense.
Instead of listening to my opinion listen to a multi billionaire blow the whistle on banks, drug companies and your very own perception of what you believe especially global politics. This is crystal clear and he will probably be killed.
It's on you tube for now, it's going to be removed in the future so if you watch anything in your life this will inform you of facts with evidence.
Thrivemovement.com or the vid on you tube. The presentation is supported by the finest free minds you'll find on Earth. No politician has rebuked any comment about this presentation.
Thrivemovent

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#34 Oct 18, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok I get Muslims aren't to popular, and before that blacks, and Koreans and Japanese and Germans. If you've been to turkey you would agree its the most liberal free Muslim state around with a million man army ready to protect that. Kurds keep bombing and shooting civilians any government would be forced to respond. By giving Kurds a free chunk if their country is the equivalent of the US giving Texas to Mexico or Nevada to the Apaches. Time for some to get out of the dark ages and assimilate or blend in for there own survival. In Canada we have tolerance and cultural centres everywhere if you respect the laws and don't blow up innocent people nobody cares if you go hang out in your cultural Center just don't preach or finance hate. As for Yugoslavia, the fall of communism left a void Slovenia seized the money the Serbs seized military asserts and in doing so killed Croatians. Muslims where collateral damage and believe it or not the US made distrust for the UN by arming the Muslims through the CIA. Only because the Serbs and Croats started wacking them when they where unarmed and not a threat. These Muslims are oddly enough blonde and blue eyed.
.

There is nothing wrong with Turkey and it's people,

the problem is the Prime Minister Erdogan, he is a yes man for the USA and as we all know, the USA poisons everything and everyone.
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#35 Oct 18, 2012
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
There is nothing wrong with Turkey and it's people,
the problem is the Prime Minister Erdogan, he is a yes man for the USA and as we all know, the USA poisons everything and everyone.
Turkey joined NATO. Its sovernty is protected by all NATO countries, an attack upon one is an attack upon all.That's a large value. With recent artillery and mortar exchanges with Syria, it would be unwise for Assad to test our govt resolve. The US offers trade and top notch weapon sales. It would befoolish to arm with Russian technology. It gets surpassed immediately after development. Compare global budgets. But it's a free world for the most part and I respect your opinion.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#36 Oct 18, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Turkey joined NATO. Its sovernty is protected by all NATO countries, an attack upon one is an attack upon all.That's a large value. With recent artillery and mortar exchanges with Syria, it would be unwise for Assad to test our govt resolve. The US offers trade and top notch weapon sales. It would befoolish to arm with Russian technology. It gets surpassed immediately after development. Compare global budgets. But it's a free world for the most part and I respect your opinion.
.

All Nato countries are but stooges for the USA,

Erdogan is a yes man, a lackey of the USA and Rasmussen should be stood up against a brick wall and shot like the dog he is.

But, likewise I respect your opinion.
Lukashenko is Dr Phil

Finland

#37 Oct 18, 2012
ratko mladic wrote:
Georgia was just a carbon copy of Serbia. HATO manufactured evidence of genocide as part of a naked land grab and carved up the Balkans allying itself with Iran and Al Quieda in the process. If it is ok for "the evil empire" to do it then it must also be ok when the Russian Federation follows the same playbook?
When were there Serbian peacekeepers in Vukovar or Kosovo, moron. Yeltsin the guy these people hate plotted to get the peacekeepers there. If not for him whole thing would have not even been possible. The idiot demanded peacekeepers to Abkhazia and South Ossetia while at the same time his Russian hordes were committing genocide just nearby in Chechnya. That is bizzarro world khokholzniks and you Balkan pig farmers share. Caucasians certainly are not innocent, but they were the ones being occupied during the entire Soviet era despite having prominent statesmen like Sergo, Stalin and Mikoyan at high places.
ratko mladic

Lake Worth, FL

#38 Oct 18, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok I get Muslims aren't to popular, and before that blacks, and Koreans and Japanese and Germans. If you've been to turkey you would agree its the most liberal free Muslim state around with a million man army ready to protect that. Kurds keep bombing and shooting civilians any government would be forced to respond. By giving Kurds a free chunk if their country is the equivalent of the US giving Texas to Mexico or Nevada to the Apaches. Time for some to get out of the dark ages and assimilate or blend in for there own survival. In Canada we have tolerance and cultural centres everywhere if you respect the laws and don't blow up innocent people nobody cares if you go hang out in your cultural Center just don't preach or finance hate. As for Yugoslavia, the fall of communism left a void Slovenia seized the money the Serbs seized military asserts and in doing so killed Croatians. Muslims where collateral damage and believe it or not the US made distrust for the UN by arming the Muslims through the CIA. Only because the Serbs and Croats started wacking them when they where unarmed and not a threat. These Muslims are oddly enough blonde and blue eyed.
Malaysia is probably the most moderate Islamic nation. Turkey is about as democratic with its ethnic minorities like the Kurds as was Iraq under Saddam. Being in NATO has not made them any less genocidal. The further removed from Asia Minor and the Middle East the less the extremism.

It is not surprising that Washington armed radical Moslems. Remember we also armed the mujahedeen in Afghanistan thus bringing Al Quieda and the Taliban to power (or letting our "allies" the Pakistanis and Saudis put them there). We do whatever the extremists in Saudi Arabia tell us really. Why do we mistrust Iran and Iraq? Because they are the Saudis rivals for dominance in the gulf region. Saddam and Ahmedinejad were/are always happy to sell us their oil.

The problem in the Balkans was around long before communism. The Ottoman Turks and the Austro-Hungarians kept that region from forming into strong nation states like the rest of Europe did. That is the genesis of the problem there. The void had nothing to do with communism. Bosniak Moslems are not a nationality. They are simply Serbs and Croats whose ancestors converted during Turkish rule. NATO has no business creating religiously pure Islamic states in Europe.
ratko mladic

Lake Worth, FL

#39 Oct 18, 2012
Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow if your happy with large companies than its good for you. I'm alarmed at the Walmarts taking over and sourcing China for all their stock just because its cheaper, the right thing to do is to sacrifice some profit and employ your neighbour. Look at pharmaceutical corporations they have poisoned the medical system for profit- they do not want you cured but management of symptoms makes them trillions... Personally that's a disgrace. I'm seeing it in Canada to the doctors don't want testing to find the root cause of probs they ask "do u have benefits" and prescribe, prescribe perscribe. It's criminal and wrong in so many ways. As for unions believe me republicans hate unions and democrats love them the biggest financial giver to Obama is the IBEW (union electricians) when he was voted in he ordered 18 new warships to be built by unionized boilermakers and iron workers and cancelled Bushes private company tenderships. Recall BlackWater and XE services the republicans evened privatized the US Army for mercs! Obama shut most of them down too, Eric Prince left the USA because of it (these guys do not follow Geneva convention, they kill, kill, and kill). How many little corps did Bill Gates and now Apple buy out and shelve to make them super giants then outsource jobs. I could go on forever my friend, just my thoughts on the matter, but if you like shopping at Walmart then Ho Wing Chang smiles at you from China and sends his regards.
The more control private enterprise has over an economy the more control the government bureaucrats have. If Maoist China is your idea of good economic policy...

I would prefer laissez faire capitalism... the closer to that the better. The more power government has the more control it wants. We are on a slow road to state socialism.
ratko mladic

Lake Worth, FL

#40 Oct 18, 2012
Lukashenko is Dr Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
When were there Serbian peacekeepers in Vukovar or Kosovo, moron. Yeltsin the guy these people hate plotted to get the peacekeepers there. If not for him whole thing would have not even been possible. The idiot demanded peacekeepers to Abkhazia and South Ossetia while at the same time his Russian hordes were committing genocide just nearby in Chechnya. That is bizzarro world khokholzniks and you Balkan pig farmers share. Caucasians certainly are not innocent, but they were the ones being occupied during the entire Soviet era despite having prominent statesmen like Sergo, Stalin and Mikoyan at high places.
Naturally the Fin-nazi Dr Phil would support terrorist thugs like the ones behind Beslan. What was done at Srebrenica was done to prevent similar terror attacks throughout the Balkans.

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