South Georgia & the South Sandwich Islands - British ?

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Since: Aug 11

Thailand

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#1
Aug 15, 2011
 

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The history of the Falkland islands is long and involved and the argument between Britain and Argentina started with the then Argentine Foreign Minister’s letter to Britain in 1833. This focused on the Falkland Islands and laid out the argument that the islands had been Spanish up until 1811, and then became Argentina’s possession after 1816. The debate, after 178 years of refinement, is long, complicated and probably impossible to resolve.

But what about South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands ?

Part of the Spanish/Argentine argument is that the New World was divided up by Pope Alexander VI in 1493 and that this legitimises their ownership of much of the South American continent. This was certainly a part of the Spanish argument for the Falkland Islands. Portugal received, after some negotiatiation, the section of the Americas falling to the east of a line drawn north/south ‘..370 leagues..’ west of the Cape Verde Islands.

On this reckoning, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands belonged to Portugal.

And then there is the problem of discovery.

South Georgia was first discovered by an English merchant, Anthony de la Roche, who had been blown off course. Captain James Cook made the first recorded landing in 1775 and named the island after George III, in whose name he claimed it. Subsequent arrangements for the government of South Georgia were established by Letters Patent in 1843.

No Spanish discovery, no Spanish claim, no Spanish settlement. Ever!

The South Sandwich Islands were discovered by Captain Cook in the same year that he landed on South Georgia. This group of islands was named after the then 1st Lord of the Admiralty, John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich. The United Kingdom formally annexed these islands and grouped them together with other British held territory in Antarctica by Letters Patent, in 1908.

No Spanish discovery, no Spanish claim, no Spanish settlement. Ever!

By the time that Argentina came into existence as a seperate State in 1816, both sets of islands had been British possessions for 41 years.

Argentina claimed South Georgia in 1927 and the South Sandwich Islands in 1938.

British attempts to deal with these claims at the International Court of Justice in 1947, 1951, 1953 and 1955 were thwarted by Argentina’s refusal to recognise the jurisdiction of the United Nation’s court.

Argentina has never attempted to explain its claims to these islands.

What Argentina does attempt to do is to group South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands together with the Falkland Islands in a desperate attempt to fudge the difference.
.."

(1st published - Aug 8th
http://lordton1955.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/h...
Carlos

Argentina

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#2
Aug 16, 2011
 
Qué sos de Deanstreet????

Cuando se pronuncia islas Malvinas incluye todo los archipiélagos en disputa con Gran Bretaña(Georgias, Sandwichs, etc.) y Gran Bretaña solo llevó una parte del caso a la ICJ motivo por el cual Argentina lo rechazó.

Saludos!

Since: Aug 11

Thailand

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#3
Aug 16, 2011
 

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No, Carlos - it was Argentina's claims to South Georgia and the South Sandwich islands accompanied by the Presidential Decree No. 14062 issued on June 24th, 1947 that prompted the litigation.

The Decree stated inter alia –”… In view of the necessity of collecting all records which exist in the country regarding Argentina’s irrevocable rights over the Falkland and South Georgia Islands, and considering that the findings presented by the National Antarctic Committee which functions under the directions of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, were inspired by the same purpose as that of the ‘Gobierno Superior’, to protect and recover the territorial estate which legally belongs to the Republic …”

The British took Argentina to court over South Georgia because of the delieation made by the Argentine Government when it added those islands to its spurious claims.

And Argentina made no mention of the Falkland Islands when is refused to acknowledge the ICJ's jurisdiction -" Argentina declines to attend and in a written response, refers to a ‘..fundamental principle in accordance with which territorial sovereignty cannot be submitted for discussion or put in issue ..’ and states that the matter is too ”.. self-evident to require judicial determination..”.

No mention of the Falkland Islands. You government does lie to its people rather a lot!

Read and learn -

http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/1945-1...
Carlos

Argentina

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#4
Aug 17, 2011
 

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Los británicos ignoran derechos donde los hay e inventan derechos donde no los hay.

Saludos!

Since: Aug 11

Bang Klam, Thailand

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#5
Aug 17, 2011
 

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So - you have no argument in support of your government's erroneous claim to South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands?

Try reading this - http://www.temple.edu/law/ticlj/ticlj22-1Tray...

The article destroys Argentina's claims to the Antarctic and the arguments use claerly apply to all the British isands in the south Atlantic ..... including the Falkland Islands.
malvinense

Thornhill, Canada

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#6
Aug 19, 2011
 

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Lord Ton wrote:
So - you have no argument in support of your government's erroneous claim to South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands?
Try reading this - http://www.temple.edu/law/ticlj/ticlj22-1Tray...
The article destroys Argentina's claims to the Antarctic and the arguments use claerly apply to all the British isands in the south Atlantic ..... including the Falkland Islands.
South Georgia was first discovered by an English merchant, Anthony de la Roche, who had been blown off course. Captain James Cook made the first recorded landing in 1775 and named the island after George III,
REally? San Pedro was discovered by the Spaniards
Those historians contend that a Spanish treasure ship, the Leon, first discovered South Georgia in 1756 while heading east on a voyage commissioned by the French company Sieur Duclos, of St. Malo. Sailing from Lima to Cadiz, the Leon was blown far off course after rounding Cape Horn.

The Leon crew first sighted the island on the morning of June 29. The feast day of St. Peter is July 1, so they named the island after the saint. Some Spanish and Argentine publications refer to the island as Isla de San Pedro in preference to the English name.

http://www.pbs.org/edens/southgeorgia/unique....
uk WAS ALATE COMERto America.The Spanish were way before the brits!!
The Spanish endure for over 300 years in America.uk will last much less than that.
YOU ARE GONNERS!!
lortonton: YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR!!

Since: Aug 11

Thailand

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#7
Aug 19, 2011
 

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You lie !

And we can prove it .... can you? Prove your lies ?
malvinense

Thornhill, Canada

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#8
Aug 19, 2011
 

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Lord Ton wrote:
You lie !
And we can prove it .... can you? Prove your lies ?
really lord tonto???/
Who discovered America?uk????
The Spaniards were navigating the South Seas,long before the brits.....
Amlvinas was discovered,either by Vespuccio,or latter by Gomez in 1530.
You can go to a museum in France,showing maps dating from 1530.
Malvinas was a dependency of Buenos Aires..
You are such an imperialist Liar!1
You are Soo repulsive,lord tonto!!
malvinense

Thornhill, Canada

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#9
Aug 19, 2011
 
malvinense wrote:
<quoted text>
really lord tonto???/
Who discovered America?uk????
The Spaniards were navigating the South Seas,long before the brits.....
Amlvinas was discovered,either by Vespuccio,or latter by Gomez in 1530.
You can go to a museum in France,showing maps dating from 1530.
Malvinas was a dependency of Buenos Aires..
You are such an imperialist Liar!1
You are Soo repulsive,lord tonto!!
lo unico que le falta decir a lortonto,es que LAs MAlvinas fueron descubiertas por gb en el año 1491!!!!
Que maquina de escribir huevadas!!

Since: Aug 11

Nonthaburi, Thailand

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#10
Aug 19, 2011
 

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Turning up, making a claim and going away again is not sufficient in international law to perfect a sovereignty caim.

AND you are not Spain!

Since: Jul 11

Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK

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#11
Aug 20, 2011
 

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malvinense wrote:
<quoted text>
really lord tonto???/
Who discovered America?uk????
The Spaniards were navigating the South Seas,long before the brits.....
Amlvinas was discovered,either by Vespuccio,or latter by Gomez in 1530.
You can go to a museum in France,showing maps dating from 1530.
Malvinas was a dependency of Buenos Aires..
You are such an imperialist Liar!1
You are Soo repulsive,lord tonto!!
And there you go again, backing up your arguement using any claim by Spain as being valid but in almost every other post you mention the UK being so far away.

Please tell me why Spain which is equally as far away as the UK from the Falklands had rights in the South Atlantic and the UK does not ?
malvinense1

Thornhill, Canada

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#12
Aug 20, 2011
 

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leanmeanmachine wrote:
<quoted text>
And there you go again, backing up your arguement using any claim by Spain as being valid but in almost every other post you mention the UK being so far away.
Please tell me why Spain which is equally as far away as the UK from the Falklands had rights in the South Atlantic and the UK does not ?
You brits are Sooo pathetic!!
Spain,move out in 1810.You do not understand,uk time is gone.Go to your nice island in the north atlantic and do not bug us....
You brits do not learn anything.....
uk is out!!It is a matter of time....
Yes,it is because we are the sucessor of Spain.
If you learn some about international Law,those thing exist....

Since: Aug 11

Nonthaburi, Thailand

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#13
Aug 20, 2011
 
We are 400 kilometers away ... how can we bug you?

You live on the mainland. British people live on the islands. Seems fairenough to me :-)

Since: Aug 11

Thailand

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#14
Aug 25, 2011
 
Mind you - we are ready should you decide to bug us !

http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2011/08/25...
Carlos

Argentina

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#15
Aug 25, 2011
 
Proyecto "DESAFÍO ATLÁNTICO SUR"

- Información sobre las Islas Georgias del Sur -

El supuesto descubrimiento de las islas Georgias por Antonio de la Roche es sumamente dudoso.

Esas Islas, según algunos historiadores, fueron descubiertas en 1675 por Antonio de la Roche que a pesar de su nombre francés era un capitán mercante inglés; pero como se puede comprobar en la cartografía posterior a esa fecha, la latitud que da es totalmente errónea, 10° más al N; por lo cual incluso un historiador inglés ha dicho que debía ser posiblemente la Isla Beauchêsne, situada a unas 30 millas náuticas al S las grandes Malvinas, de manera que ese descubrimiento es sumamente dudoso.

En 1756, la nave mercante española "León" procedió a descubrir las islas el 28 ó el 29 de Junio.

Hasta hace poco teníamos la relación citada por el Doctor Fitte en su libro, de Sir Duclós Guyot, uno de los pasajeros, en la cual explica que el día 29 de Junio a las 7 de la mañana, descubrieron una isla muy grande de 20 a 25 leguas, concuerda perfectamente con su longitud y estuvieron prácticamente tres días recorriéndola y luego siguieron viaje para las Canarias, la latitud que da es perfecta, 54 grados y unos minutos, la longitud casi concuerda con la de la mitad de la isla.

Hemos tenido la suerte de encontrar otro documento en el Museo Naval de Madrid sobre este descubrimiento. Es la relación del piloto Henrique de Cormer (natural de Saint Maló) que era el piloto de la nave "León", el cual hace una descripción que coincide exactamente con lo que dice Sir Duclós Guyot, que iba en ese barco como pasajero; pero que además da datos científicos, geográficos mucho más precisos que concuerdan exactamente con los que tiene la Isla San Pedro.

La Isla San Pedro se llama así porque el 29 de Junio, era el día de San Pedro. El piloto dice que el día 28 vieron una masa de tierra, pero que después se produjo, como en esa zona es muy frecuente, una niebla que no los dejó comprobar hasta el día siguiente de que efectivamente habían visto tierra.

En 1775 el gran navegante inglés James Cook, redescubre las islas, pero reconoce que anteriormente lo habían hecho los españoles del navío "León", que habían llamado San Pedro a la isla principal.

http://www.desafioatlanticosur.com.ar/infogeo...

Saludos!
MAlvinense1

Thornhill, Canada

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#16
Aug 25, 2011
 

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Carlos wrote:
Proyecto "DESAFÍO ATLÁNTICO SUR"
- Información sobre las Islas Georgias del Sur -
El supuesto descubrimiento de las islas Georgias por Antonio de la Roche es sumamente dudoso.
Esas Islas, según algunos historiadores, fueron descubiertas en 1675 por Antonio de la Roche que a pesar de su nombre francés era un capitán mercante inglés; pero como se puede comprobar en la cartografía posterior a esa fecha, la latitud que da es totalmente errónea, 10° más al N; por lo cual incluso un historiador inglés ha dicho que debía ser posiblemente la Isla Beauchêsne, situada a unas 30 millas náuticas al S las grandes Malvinas, de manera que ese descubrimiento es sumamente dudoso.
En 1756, la nave mercante española "León" procedió a descubrir las islas el 28 ó el 29 de Junio.
Hasta hace poco teníamos la relación citada por el Doctor Fitte en su libro, de Sir Duclós Guyot, uno de los pasajeros, en la cual explica que el día 29 de Junio a las 7 de la mañana, descubrieron una isla muy grande de 20 a 25 leguas, concuerda perfectamente con su longitud y estuvieron prácticamente tres días recorriéndola y luego siguieron viaje para las Canarias, la latitud que da es perfecta, 54 grados y unos minutos, la longitud casi concuerda con la de la mitad de la isla.
Hemos tenido la suerte de encontrar otro documento en el Museo Naval de Madrid sobre este descubrimiento. Es la relación del piloto Henrique de Cormer (natural de Saint Maló) que era el piloto de la nave "León", el cual hace una descripción que coincide exactamente con lo que dice Sir Duclós Guyot, que iba en ese barco como pasajero; pero que además da datos científicos, geográficos mucho más precisos que concuerdan exactamente con los que tiene la Isla San Pedro.
La Isla San Pedro se llama así porque el 29 de Junio, era el día de San Pedro. El piloto dice que el día 28 vieron una masa de tierra, pero que después se produjo, como en esa zona es muy frecuente, una niebla que no los dejó comprobar hasta el día siguiente de que efectivamente habían visto tierra.
En 1775 el gran navegante inglés James Cook, redescubre las islas, pero reconoce que anteriormente lo habían hecho los españoles del navío "León", que habían llamado San Pedro a la isla principal.
http://www.desafioatlanticosur.com.ar/infogeo...
Saludos!
Buen dato Carlos!!
Gracias!!
Lo unico que le falta escribirr a lordtonto,es que gb,descubrio Las Malvinas en 1490,y America en el 1491!!
Que mentiroso Por Dios!!
Lo que hay que leer!!
Carlos

Argentina

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#17
Aug 25, 2011
 
Malvinense1

Hay un dicho en inglés que dice: "garbage in garbage out", el cuál significa que si se guarda basura se tiene basura.

Saludos!
Carlos

Argentina

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#18
Aug 25, 2011
 
Malvinense1

Hay un dicho en inglés que dice: "garbage in garbage out", el cuál significa que si se guarda basura se tiene basura.

Y eso es lo que hace Lord Ton, nos quiere empaburar con sus basuras....

Saludos!

Since: Aug 11

Songkhla, Thailand

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#19
Aug 25, 2011
 

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Islas de Palmas 1928 - first discovery is not a case for sovereignty.

Don't you idiots ever learn ?
MAlvinense1

Thornhill, Canada

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#20
Aug 25, 2011
 

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We know about the Palmas case.Has some similarities,but the MAlvinas case is different.Anyway,I bet again 1000 to 1 that Argentina will get back Malvinas!!
You want to bet???
If you are so sure,about how good of a lawyer you are,why do not go to the UN and expose your powerful arguments....
If you read,true,serious lawyers like Mirhe,brit,he gave a different perspective about Malvinas......
Anyway,we are going to figth in amany ways the uk,and we are going to win...No question about that...
You want to bet???

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