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Deanstreet

Stanley, Falkland Islands (Malvinas)

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#1
Apr 16, 2011
 

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Argentina’s UN representative, Jose Maria Ruda (pictured below) made an 8,000 word speech at the UN decolonisation committee (otherwise known as the C24 or Committee of 24).
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The speech he gave, professed to give the history of the Falkland Islands and Argentina’s claim.
However, what he gave contained errors which led to a overwhelmingly false account of the history.
This speech resulted in the passing of Resolution 2065 (XX) by the UN General Assembly in 1965.
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Jose Maria Ruda’s speech contained at least 60 historical errors.
However, I will not list all of these just the more important of these..
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One of these untruths, was that Britain “took” Saint Helena in 1815, whereas it was 1659.
Others, were that the USS Lexington visited in May 1831 (it was December); that knowledge of the existence of the Falklands was uncertain in Britain until the mid-18th century (it was not); that 17th and 18th century Anglo-Spanish treaties excluded Britain from the Falklands (they did not); and that in 1820 David Jewett announced that Argentine fishing regulations would apply in the islands (he did not).
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Later in 1965, Argentina’s new UN representative, Bonifacio Del Carril, repeated many of these errors again…
24 June 2010 the new Argentine foreign minister Héctor Timerman repeated again the same errors…
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Deanstreet

Stanley, Falkland Islands (Malvinas)

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#2
Apr 16, 2011
 

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Britain’s and Argentina’s claims

Britain’s case is threefold: it consists of an extremely strong historical claim; a political claim since we Falkland Islanders clearly wish to remain British; and continuity of administration by Britain for more than 175 years.

By contrast, Argentina’s case is exclusively historical – it has no political claim since we islanders are not clamouring to join argentina, and there is no such thing as a territorial claim based on “contiguity”(geographical nearness).

And accordingly, I will provide the history which provides the only basis for the Argentine claim to be false, since it consists of repeated untruths which I shall accordingly expose, in a later posting.

Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
Gregoria Parry

Stanley, Falkland Islands (Malvinas)

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#3
Apr 16, 2011
 

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Keep it up, and keep telling the truth Deanstreet
Malvinense1

Thornhill, Canada

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Apr 16, 2011
 

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Deanstreet wrote:
Britain’s and Argentina’s claims
Britain’s case is threefold: it consists of an extremely strong historical claim; a political claim since we Falkland Islanders clearly wish to remain British; and continuity of administration by Britain for more than 175 years.
By contrast, Argentina’s case is exclusively historical – it has no political claim since we islanders are not clamouring to join argentina, and there is no such thing as a territorial claim based on “contiguity”(geographical nearness).
And accordingly, I will provide the history which provides the only basis for the Argentine claim to be false, since it consists of repeated untruths which I shall accordingly expose, in a later posting.
Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
keep it up liying,dean.You will finish as the chagosian,not to mention that 2millions HK,people DID not Wanted to go to China.
Muscle prevails,as the brits kick out the Argentinian,that were in 1833.
KEEP IT UP LIYING.
32 Countries in Latin america,supports Argentina's claim.
You people are NOBODY.
300 millions,people wants the brits out of SA.
Anyway,it does not matter the years,in the past,uk and for a little while,uk is stronger than Argentina's,but of course is changing the balance of forces very fast.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica.the Malvinas war is for the proyection in Antartica,no because of you people,they could not care less,as they have done it in the past!
half of the world,hates the brits
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/sou...

http://m24digital.com/en/2010/02/24/malvinasf...
And any way,I do not give a Damn about the brits.I dislike them inmensely.
We do nto want around SA!
They are extracontinental,and not wanted around the SA.
300 Millions,wants them OUT!!
I do not care if 2000 likes them,is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT
Sooner or latter,we are sending them home,and you fouls,with that military brits base,there,when hell get loose,they are going to give it to you,with flying colors.
IDIOTS!!
francisco

Rosario, Argentina

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#5
Apr 16, 2011
 

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Deanstreet, ten valor!

Dime de una vez por todas como hace la Argentina pra burlar a toda la comunidad internacional por decadas sin que esta lo note?.

Son oligofrenicos en la ONU?.

Como tenemos nosotros una diplomacia tan habil como para fabricar, promover, y engañar a toda la ONU y otras organizaciones supra nacionales por tanto tiempo?.

Habremos hecho un pacto con el diablo?.

Coherencia kelper!, coherencia es lo unico que te pido!.

Hace meses que te pido me des la esclarecedora respuesta que explica como la Argentina es tan bestial victimaria de ustedes, unos pobrecitos isleños inocentes acosados por nosotros, los perfidos argies!.

Deanstreet, cualquier tipo normal en tu lugar, reconoceria que algo falla en su comunicacion y sus ideas.

Si no puedes explicar en forma clara, sencilla, precisa tus ideas y no puedes responder preguntas simples, faciles, es porque algo falla en ti. O eres deshonesto y estas a sueldo de la corona britanica, o eres un tipo con graves problemas mentales....
Deanstreet

Stanley, Falkland Islands (Malvinas)

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#6
Apr 16, 2011
 

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Malvinense,

I'm still Waiting...and to refresh your memory:

Malvinense,

I will repeat YET AGAIN:

You have ducked, dived and in order to try to change the subject yet again...? In order not to answer the questions…

You have posted simple rhetoric and ramblings with none or few facts...

To remind you:

Would you please inform me and the rest of the world, what are you talking about?
Because, Argentines have never been banned/stopped from entering/visiting/settling in the Falkland Islands.
Where exactly did Hipólito Solari Yrigoyen get that information from?
Because it is totally incorrect..!
}
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You stated:
"The brit,do not want the Argentines to be in the South Atlantic" --
Please informs us where and when that statement/policy/law was made - we'd all be interested in knowing.
}
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You also told us about a UN Resolution that stopped the UK from returning the Falklands to its rightful owners in 1982.
Again, I’ll ask you which Resolution was this..?
You said it, I did not, SO BACK IT UP WITH FACTS OR APOLOGISE TO OUR READERS..!!
}
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"I have checked and I have re-checked, but I still cannot see any UN Resolution that stopped the UK from removing argentine invaders from British territory – can you..?
What is this famous Resolution you often speak about, tell us all exactly which Resolution this is..?
You said it, I did not, SO BACK IT UP WITH FACTS OR APOLOGISE TO OUR READERS..!!
}
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Malvinense,
Remember
you said all of the above, I did not, so kindly back it up, by giving us the correct UN Resolutions, the correct British Government or Falkland Islands Government policy statement/s or Ordinance/s.
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What you have provided so far, is simply what appears to be your opinion and twisted logic, which amounts to absolutely nothing…
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Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
Deanstreet

Stanley, Falkland Islands (Malvinas)

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#7
Apr 16, 2011
 

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francisco wrote:
Deanstreet, ten valor!
Dime de una vez por todas como hace la Argentina pra burlar a toda la comunidad internacional por decadas sin que esta lo note?.
Son oligofrenicos en la ONU?.
Como tenemos nosotros una diplomacia tan habil como para fabricar, promover, y engañar a toda la ONU y otras organizaciones supra nacionales por tanto tiempo?.
Habremos hecho un pacto con el diablo?.
Coherencia kelper!, coherencia es lo unico que te pido!.
Hace meses que te pido me des la esclarecedora respuesta que explica como la Argentina es tan bestial victimaria de ustedes, unos pobrecitos isleños inocentes acosados por nosotros, los perfidos argies!.
Deanstreet, cualquier tipo normal en tu lugar, reconoceria que algo falla en su comunicacion y sus ideas.
Si no puedes explicar en forma clara, sencilla, precisa tus ideas y no puedes responder preguntas simples, faciles, es porque algo falla en ti. O eres deshonesto y estas a sueldo de la corona britanica, o eres un tipo con graves problemas mentales....
francisco,

It is up to you to prove me to be wrong and incorrect, as yet you have not done so.

You keep repeating that I will not supply answers.

I have also asked you before, and I'll ask you yet again to kindly repeat the questions that I have not answered, and then I will endeavour to furnish replies.

If you are unable to do this, then I am unable to answer.

Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
Malvinense1

Thornhill, Canada

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#8
Apr 16, 2011
 

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The brit,do not want the Argentines to be in the South Atlantic" --
Please informs us where and when that statement/policy/law was made - we'd all be interested in knowing.
Really dean? Who the hell came from 14000 km,and evicted the Argentines,that were peacefully there,in 1833? You do not think odd,that there are No Argentines there? There were taken by force,and by force should be retaken.uk,will not be there for eternity,justice will preval ,and ulitmately,we will be stronger than them...so think for a minute...How long do you think you can be there?The natural environment for Argentina is the SA, not for uk,they live in the north Atlantic..are you a mental case? Do not think critically for a minute?
Sorry for you guys,you are just a poor stranded,unwanted 2000,insignificance......
Lost in the inmensity of the South Atlantic...
Deanstreet

Stanley, Falkland Islands (Malvinas)

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#9
Apr 17, 2011
 

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The Argentine inhabitants did not resist the“invaders”.
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In his speech in 1964 José María Ruda stated that Britain’s actions in the Falklands in January 1833 had been “against the will of its inhabitants”.
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That is untrue.
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The truth was established by a Spanish-speaking British colonel, Belford Hinton Wilson, who had played a notable part in the South American independence movement – he had assisted Simón Bolívar and had been thanked in Bolívar’s will.
Wilson had been appointed ambassador to Peru, and visited the Falklands aboard a British ship, HMS Tyne, which arrived on 14 January 1833 (four days after the Clio left), and spent four days at Port Louis. Wilson spoke in Spanish to the gauchos, who told him Captain Onslow had paid them in silver for beef, whereas Vernet had paid them in his worthless paper “currency”. Wilson reported to the Admiralty:
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“These Gauchos would cheerfully remain on the Island under any Englishman whom the Government may please to appoint…”
(From Wilson’s report, Source PRO CO 78/1, fols. 212-213.)
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The resident gauchos had been through the chaos caused by the murderous Argentine garrison, were heavily in debt to Vernet, and looked forward to peace and good pay under British authority. However, Britain let them down; for exactly a year (10 January 1833 to 10 January 1834) there was no official British presence in the islands. The gauchos despaired of obtaining fair pay, and on 26 August 1833 eight of them murdered five of the leading inhabitants. In his speech in 1964, Ruda referred to “the rest of the settlers who resisted the invaders”, but the murdered men were representatives of Vernet and hence Argentina, not Britain.
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So it is entirely untrue to say that the residents of the Falklands resisted the British in any way. In fact, several British sailors who were in the Falklands at the time were at first suspected of complicity in the murders
Malvinense1

Thornhill, Canada

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Apr 17, 2011
 

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Deanstreet wrote:
The Argentine inhabitants did not resist the“invaders”.
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In his speech in 1964 José María Ruda stated that Britain’s actions in the Falklands in January 1833 had been “against the will of its inhabitants”.
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That is untrue.
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The truth was established by a Spanish-speaking British colonel, Belford Hinton Wilson, who had played a notable part in the South American independence movement – he had assisted Simón Bolívar and had been thanked in Bolívar’s will.
Wilson had been appointed ambassador to Peru, and visited the Falklands aboard a British ship, HMS Tyne, which arrived on 14 January 1833 (four days after the Clio left), and spent four days at Port Louis. Wilson spoke in Spanish to the gauchos, who told him Captain Onslow had paid them in silver for beef, whereas Vernet had paid them in his worthless paper “currency”. Wilson reported to the Admiralty:
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“These Gauchos would cheerfully remain on the Island under any Englishman whom the Government may please to appoint…”
(From Wilson’s report, Source PRO CO 78/1, fols. 212-213.)
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The resident gauchos had been through the chaos caused by the murderous Argentine garrison, were heavily in debt to Vernet, and looked forward to peace and good pay under British authority. However, Britain let them down; for exactly a year (10 January 1833 to 10 January 1834) there was no official British presence in the islands. The gauchos despaired of obtaining fair pay, and on 26 August 1833 eight of them murdered five of the leading inhabitants. In his speech in 1964, Ruda referred to “the rest of the settlers who resisted the invaders”, but the murdered men were representatives of Vernet and hence Argentina, not Britain.
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So it is entirely untrue to say that the residents of the Falklands resisted the British in any way. In fact, several British sailors who were in the Falklands at the time were at first suspected of complicity in the murders
We had 100000 people in 1982 that were forcefully expelled,against their will by the brits invaders.
Really you are such a liar!
I guess we will have to get rid of all the brits corporation in Argentina,since we dislike the brits inmensely!!
Deanstreet

Stanley, Falkland Islands (Malvinas)

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#11
Apr 17, 2011
 

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If I am such a liar, then kindly prove me wrong.. If you can...!

Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
francisco

Argentina

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Apr 17, 2011
 

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Deanstreet wrote:
<quoted text>
francisco,
It is up to you to prove me to be wrong and incorrect, as yet you have not done so.
You keep repeating that I will not supply answers.
I have also asked you before, and I'll ask you yet again to kindly repeat the questions that I have not answered, and then I will endeavour to furnish replies.
If you are unable to do this, then I am unable to answer.
Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
Yo probar algo?. Para que?. Ya he argumentado, ya he hecho mis aportes a esta discusion que llevamos desde hace meses y en distintos topic. No importa lo que diga, tampoco lo que haga aqui tu siempre jugaras el mismo juego que no lleva a ningun lado. Cuando empiezas a perder tratas de empantanar la discusion.

Dices que tendras la amabilidad de responder mis preguntas.

Bien, luego de cientos de veces vuelvo a repetirlas.

1) Porque no nos demandan por violar sus derechos?.

2) Porque UK no nos denuncia y acusa frente a toda la comunidad internacional?.

3) Porque en la ONU ignoran nuestras perfidias y maldades hacia tu comunidad y hacia UK?.

4) Porque la comunidad internacional no ha notado durante decadas ni ha notado aun al dia de hoy, nuestro malefico plan para adueñarnos de una tierra que no es nuestra y reducir a la esclavitud a la pobre gente que habita en ellas?.

5) Como hemos logrado la habilidad sobrenatural para fabricar, promover, impulsar un conflicto con UK durante 178 años?.

No espero que respondas....

P.S: En caso de que milagrosamente lo hagas no respondas en forma vaga e imprecisa, ten la amabilidad de responder exactamente lo que te preguntado en forma clara.
Malvinero

Argentina

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#14
Apr 17, 2011
 

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Gregoria Parry wrote:
Keep it up, and keep telling the truth Deanstreet
Por favor señora......

Documentos que avalen que las islas Malvinas les pertenece a Gran Bretaña. Ustedes no los tienen, de lo contrario les hubieran cerrado la boca a la Argentina desde hace muchos años en la O.N.U., en el Comité de Descolonización y en todos los foros internacionales donde se trata el tema Malvinas. Las palabras se la lleva el viento. Solo escriben argumentos engañosos y fantasios una y otra vez, nada serio de su lado. Les gustan el juego de desviar las discusiones principales y lo más gracioso, se hacen las víctimas.

Un saludo
Malvinero

Argentina

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#15
Apr 17, 2011
 

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Me dio gracia escuchar a este individuo Jeremy Browne cuando dijo "No tenemos duda alguna de nuestra soberanía sobre las Falkland Islands".
Entonces, presenten en los foros internacionales sus pruebas, sus documentos que avalen que las islas Malvinas le pertenecen a Gran Bretaña.
Cierrenle la boca y humillenla a la Argentina en las O.N.U., en el Comité de Descolonización y en todos los foros internacionales. Si alguien como Jeremy Browne está seguro de lo que dice, entonces muestren las pruebas, vamos, que esperan, terminemos este asunto. Yo no he visto ni una prueba que me convenza de que las islas Malvinas son británicas.
Porqué los gobiernos de Gran Bretaña nunca aceptaron ir a los arbitrajes internacionales cuando fueron invitados por los gobiernos argentinos????????.
Malvinero

Argentina

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#16
Apr 17, 2011
 

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Deanstreet wrote:
If I am such a liar, then kindly prove me wrong.. If you can...!
Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
Si no sos un mentiroso, entonces, porqué tu amada Reina y los gobiernos británicos nunca nos pueden derrotar en las Naciones Unidas, en el Comité de Descolonización y en todos los foros internacionales?????
Cada vez a la Argentina se le agregan más países que la apoyan en el caso Malvinas y de todas partes del mundo.
Que caso más raro el de ustedes, dicen tener las pruebas y no las prensentan de una vez donde se trata el tema Malvinas para terminar con el asunto.
Los pobres kelpers nos esperan en Malvinas con un cartel que dice argentinos serán bien venidos cuando dejen de reclamar las islas Malvinas. Saben muy bien que eso nunca sucederá de nuestra parte.
Deanstreet

Stanley, Falkland Islands (Malvinas)

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#18
Apr 17, 2011
 

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Malvinero wrote:
<quoted text>
Si no sos un mentiroso, entonces, porqué tu amada Reina y los gobiernos británicos nunca nos pueden derrotar en las Naciones Unidas, en el Comité de Descolonización y en todos los foros internacionales?????
Cada vez a la Argentina se le agregan más países que la apoyan en el caso Malvinas y de todas partes del mundo.
Que caso más raro el de ustedes, dicen tener las pruebas y no las prensentan de una vez donde se trata el tema Malvinas para terminar con el asunto.
Los pobres kelpers nos esperan en Malvinas con un cartel que dice argentinos serán bien venidos cuando dejen de reclamar las islas Malvinas. Saben muy bien que eso nunca sucederá de nuestra parte.
malvinero,
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the question should be:
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If YOU are right - then answer me this question please - why am I still here in the Falkland Islands and not you?
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Additionally, please explain why you haven't "recovered" them since the 1833 "invasion".
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Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
Malvinero

Argentina

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#19
Apr 17, 2011
 

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Deanstreet wrote:
<quoted text>
malvinero,
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the question should be:
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If YOU are right - then answer me this question please - why am I still here in the Falkland Islands and not you?
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Additionally, please explain why you haven't "recovered" them since the 1833 "invasion".
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Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
No están legalmente en las islas Malvinas, eso lo sabemos muy bien.

De Hernán Bilbao Albert:

Buenos Aires y esa Argentina en 1833 estaba sumida en el caos político e institucional. Veníamos de un proceso de independencia de 10 años; 1810-1820, con guerras y contrarrevoluciones tremendas, con un poder español que se resistía a dejar América; una guerra fraticida que dejó a la región en ruinas.
Pasado este momento y conjurada la amenaza de la restauración monárquica comienza el período de organización institucional y política de la Argentina y de la región; en la cual la Argentina cae nuevamente en el caos y la anarquía; en la lucha civil; la época de los caudillos provinciales y su lucha por el federalismo; es todo un proceso convulsivo de nuestra historia para llegar a la meta de un proyecto de país, un proceso que terminará en 1853-60 con la celebración de nuestra constitución.
Lo asombroso es que a pesar de todo este caos de luchas y confrontaciones propias del nacimiento de una nación, Buenos Aires se las arregló para hacer llegar la revolución de mayo a las islas Malvinas; la revolución de mayo liberó las islas Malvinas para el bando de la libertad y de toda dominación colonial extranjera y extrarregional.
Es en este contexto de caos y de formación nacional donde aparece en escena Gran Bretaña en 1833. Gran Bretaña que para esa época era la primera potencia mundial económica y militar; no tenía rival luego de salir vencedora de las guerras napoleónicas.(Aclaración: ser potencia mundial implica responsabilidad.)
Es allí, y con todo su poder a cuestas que Gran Bretaña invade las Malvinas argentinas; la invade a costa de una sociedad que estaba en plena catarsis postcolonial; con sus fuerzas aferradas al objetivo de construir una nación. Las invade en claro aprovechamiento de la situación, las invade sabiendo su superioridad y sabiendo que la dificultad en la que nos encontrábamos para responder; un aprovechamiento del fuerte sobre el débil; un aprovechamiento cobarde y perverso por saberse impunes.
Pero esto no es todo. La idea que se tenía en Buenos Aires antes de 1833 en relación a Gran Bretaña era de aliados; Gran Bretaña había cooperado con las fuerzas libertarias de mayo; la invasión de 1833 supuso para la sociedad porteña una traición, una traición no provocada y sorpresiva.
Por eso lo de 1833 además de ser una agresión gratuita, sorpresiva y no provocada fue un aprovechamiento y una traición por parte de Gran Bretaña; un evento injustificable y de lo mas bajo que pudiera haber.
Pero quitando las invasiones a la Buenos Aires española de 1806-07; Gran Bretaña luego de su perfidia de 1833 le produjo a la Argentina otras 3 agresiones. Dos fueron los bloques navales sufridos por la confederación argentina, para ponerla de rodillas y que aceptara sumisión y condicionamientos; y la última fue en el 82; rompiendo el fuego en pleno momento de negociaciones, eliminando toda posibilidad de paz.
Con estos antecedentes es normal que reclamemos. Sin embargo, también estoy a favor de que exista una normalización en la relación con los kelpers, pero solo con ellos y no con sus amos coloniales; contra ellos es la cuestión y mientras los kelper se amparen bajo ese escudo viciado desde el inicio los argentinos nos seguiremos defendiendo como hicimos siempre ante cada intento británico.
Ernest Spencer

Stockport, UK

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#20
Apr 18, 2011
 

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Malvinera,(I expect you are not)

The C24 is not a forum designated to settle territorial disputes, that place is the ICJ a body which you are terrified to attend. You country is like a drunk who has dropped some money in a dark place but looks undereath a lighted lampost to find it. Wrong place wrong time wrong arguments.

Our ancestors in the Falklands had very good links and relations with the mainland. Argentina has destroyed these quoting false reasons and lies for so doing.

You have not got the guts to normalise relations with the Falklands. Show some courage recognise the FIG and deal with them directly. They are not slaves of the UK but independent locally elected people. Sadly I believe you lack the courage.

Maybe you can show me otherwise?
Ricardo Bean

Rosario, Argentina

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#21
Apr 18, 2011
 

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Ernest Spencer wrote:
Malvinera,(I expect you are not)
The C24 is not a forum designated to settle territorial disputes, that place is the ICJ a body which you are terrified to attend. You country is like a drunk who has dropped some money in a dark place but looks undereath a lighted lampost to find it. Wrong place wrong time wrong arguments.
Our ancestors in the Falklands had very good links and relations with the mainland. Argentina has destroyed these quoting false reasons and lies for so doing.
You have not got the guts to normalise relations with the Falklands. Show some courage recognise the FIG and deal with them directly. They are not slaves of the UK but independent locally elected people. Sadly I believe you lack the courage.
Maybe you can show me otherwise?
Ok.., pero...¿Porqué ustedes se negaron ir a los arbitrajes internacionales cuando fueron invitados por gobiernos argentinos?¿Porqué se niegan a presentar sus pruebas si es que realmente las tienen?, dudo que las tengan de lo contrario ya les hubieran dado la razón a UK desde hace mucho tiempo.

Porqué hay isleños que viven en el continente y tienen muy buenas relaciones con mis compatriotas. Si ellos lo lograron, ustedes también lo pueden lograr, no somos los cucos. Pienso que huyen, ustedes ni siquiera ponen algo de su parte para acercarse a nosotros.

Como ven mi apellido es Bean, soy descendiente de ingleses y mi primo es de apellido Islas (Island) otro descendiente de ingleses, su tatarabuelo de apellido Islands fue un militar de las invasiones inglesas a Buenos Aires y fue hecho prisionero. Se quedó a vivir en Buenos Aires, se casó con una argentina y se vino a vivir al norte. Yo me siento felíz en este territorio, no me falta nada y no me quejo de nada. Somos un país indeeeeependiente y no tenemos reina, ni somos colonias como lo son ustedes.

Spencer,¿Hay miedo o no hay miedo en las islas Malvinas si alguien critica al gobierno?
Deanstreet

Stanley, Falkland Islands (Malvinas)

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#22
Apr 18, 2011
 

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In his Message to the Argentine Congress on 1 May 1869 President Domingo Sarmiento expressed satisfaction at the state of Argentina’s foreign relations:

“The state of our foreign relations fulfils the aspirations of the country. Nothing is claimed from us by other nations; we have nothing to ask of them except that they will persevere in manifesting their sympathies, with which both Governments and peoples have honoured the Republic, both for its progress and its spirit of fairness.”

All those statements, made in the official Message at the ceremonial opening of the Argentine Congress in the 1860s, strongly imply that there was no dispute between Britain and Argentina over the Falklands.

Kindest regards from the Falkland islands

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