For eastern Ukrainians, a growing doubt: Is Russia manipulating us?

A building formerly occupied by rebels lies burned as eastern Ukrainian residents of Slaviansk, Ukraine, cope with the aftermath of months of pro-Russian separatist control of their town. Full Story
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Putinko

Toronto, Canada

#1 Jul 31, 2014
Russia has long been viewed with brotherly affection in eastern Ukraine. But some easterners are becoming disillusioned after seeing facts on the ground contrast with fictions in Russian media.

Shortly after pro-Russia rebels left this eastern Ukrainian town, Russia's state-owned Channel One broadcast a heart-wrenching interview with a refugee mother who had fled to Russia with her children.

The woman told a tearful story, claiming that she witnessed Ukrainian soldiers gather residents at the Slaviansk central square, to watch the “crucifixion like Jesus” of a three-year-old boy on a notice board at city hall. Then the boy’s mother, who had fainted, was tied to a tank and paraded around the square.

The studio anchor, shocked, said the “mind refuses to understand how such a thing is possible, these days in the center of Europe.”

Viewers in Slaviansk were just as shocked – because such an event never took place.

It is tales like this that have turned hearts and minds in eastern Ukraine – where the Russian-speaking majority once welcomed a separatist uprising and Moscow’s backing for it – increasingly against Russia. In towns like Slaviansk, rebels have left behind a population disillusioned and angry. They're still suspicious of the Ukrainian government forces they believed would kill them, but also disappointed by how a once-trusted Russia tried to manipulate their fears.
George

Red Deer, Canada

#2 Jul 31, 2014
Yes that is a pretty sad state of affairs. The Russian media will one day be made to explain itself and take ownership of the lies and propaganda
Avenger

Cambridge, Canada

#3 Jul 31, 2014
George wrote:
Yes that is a pretty sad state of affairs. The Russian media will one day be made to explain itself and take ownership of the lies and propaganda
But will it George the Kremlin lies seem without end are only getting worse.
And the Russian sheep are gobbling it all up.
RUSSIA HAS NO CREDIBILITY

Port Moody, Canada

#4 Jul 31, 2014
George wrote:
Yes that is a pretty sad state of affairs. The Russian media will one day be made to explain itself and take ownership of the lies and propaganda
Yes, people in Eastern Ukraine see the poverty and hardship of their Crimean dupes, hear the empty promises and lies.......then they look to the EU and NATO and think; "We're being used and swindled by a Nazi liar!"

Wake up and "smell the Moscow Fascist" people of Eastern Ukraine!

You belong in the free and prosperous West, and your brothers in West Ukraine will lead you to a better future!
Live Free or Die

Williston, VT

#5 Jul 31, 2014
Nobody lies more than Kiev, Jr.

"We never engage in residential areas." BWAAAHAAAHAAAA.

They're war criminals. 1000 civilians and counting. Hundreds of thousands of refugees and counting.

NATO in past conflicts has described similar behavior as ethnic-cleansing. They don't have the honor or morals to do the same today. I wonder, did they ever have them?

That's what happens when you let a bunch of neo-nazi party members overthrow a regime and get involved in your new, so-called military and government.

A pure unadulterated putsch by pigs - A Pig Putsch.

Frankly, anything that these Eastern fighters can and will do pales in comparison to past separatist movements aided and abetted by Washington, so bay on - You ain't got no credibility. None, Zero, Nada, Zilch. Tune back in when you've found a video or two of Eastern fighters selling organs of captured pro-government civilians on the open market, like our Balkan 'allies'.

Until then, shut your trap!
Putinko

Toronto, Canada

#6 Jul 31, 2014
Some Rebels In Ukraine Vent Frustration With Putin
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/30/ukra...
There is frustration with Putin among some of the fighters, even though a rebellion that began with assault rifles, hunting guns and old weapons now has multiple rocket launchers, self-propelled howitzers, armored vehicles and tanks.

Squeezed by the Ukrainian army into their last two strongholds, the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk, the rebels complain they are outnumbered and outgunned.

"Oh, how we would like to see the Russian army here," said a fighter who gave his name only as Pavel, standing outside the rebel headquarters in Donetsk, an industrial city about 80 kilometers (50 miles) northeast of the nearest border crossing with Russia.

"If they were here, the Ukrainian border would be 300 km away to the west and south. But they're not coming."

Despite the denials of other rebels, he said the separatists were receiving military equipment, including multiple missile launchers, from Russia.

"But that's only a fraction of what we need. We need people, experienced people. But Putin is afraid of spending Russian funds and his oligarchs' funds," he said.

Another rebel fighter, who declined to give his name, also voiced frustration with Moscow.

"Russia must enter Novorossiya," he said, using the name - which means New Russia - that Putin himself has at times used for the regions in eastern Ukraine where the separatists have risen up against Kiev's rule.

"This is Russian soil, and every day they waste waiting (to send in arms and personnel) means more deaths," he said. "We feel somewhat as if we are Russia's cannon fodder."

It is not clear how widespread such disenchantment is among the rebels, and none of those who voiced criticism was prepared to give their full names for fear of retribution.
Karmarim

Sliema, Malta

#7 Jul 31, 2014
RUSSIA HAS NO CREDIBILITY wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, people in Eastern Ukraine see the poverty and hardship of their Crimean dupes, hear the empty promises and lies.......then they look to the EU and NATO and think; "We're being used and swindled by a Nazi liar!"
Wake up and "smell the Moscow Fascist" people of Eastern Ukraine!
You belong in the free and prosperous West, and your brothers in West Ukraine will lead you to a better future!
Lol as if the EU & NATO are currently prosperous, not to mention how welcoming the FAR RIGHT is, currently gaining increasing support in Western Europe.
Karmarim

Sliema, Malta

#8 Jul 31, 2014
Putinko wrote:
Some Rebels In Ukraine Vent Frustration With Putin
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/30/ukra...
There is frustration with Putin among some of the fighters, even though a rebellion that began with assault rifles, hunting guns and old weapons now has multiple rocket launchers, self-propelled howitzers, armored vehicles and tanks.
Squeezed by the Ukrainian army into their last two strongholds, the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk, the rebels complain they are outnumbered and outgunned.
"Oh, how we would like to see the Russian army here," said a fighter who gave his name only as Pavel, standing outside the rebel headquarters in Donetsk, an industrial city about 80 kilometers (50 miles) northeast of the nearest border crossing with Russia.
"If they were here, the Ukrainian border would be 300 km away to the west and south. But they're not coming."
Despite the denials of other rebels, he said the separatists were receiving military equipment, including multiple missile launchers, from Russia.
"But that's only a fraction of what we need. We need people, experienced people. But Putin is afraid of spending Russian funds and his oligarchs' funds," he said.
Another rebel fighter, who declined to give his name, also voiced frustration with Moscow.
"Russia must enter Novorossiya," he said, using the name - which means New Russia - that Putin himself has at times used for the regions in eastern Ukraine where the separatists have risen up against Kiev's rule.
"This is Russian soil, and every day they waste waiting (to send in arms and personnel) means more deaths," he said. "We feel somewhat as if we are Russia's cannon fodder."
It is not clear how widespread such disenchantment is among the rebels, and none of those who voiced criticism was prepared to give their full names for fear of retribution.
What you just is pro-Putin. Eastern Ukrainian, Crimea was an autonomous self-governmed region (like Kosovo) hence had every-right to self-determination. Eastern Ukraine is not. You basically just showed Putin is respecting International law.
DISGUSTING FASCIST RUSSIA

Surrey, Canada

#9 Jul 31, 2014
Karmarim wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol as if the EU & NATO are currently prosperous, not to mention how welcoming the FAR RIGHT is, currently gaining increasing support in Western Europe.
Yes, the standard of living in the EU and NATO is only several times higher than in Putin's fascist Russia and they could do better. Your fantasies of fascism taking hold in Western Europe as it has in Russia is pure delusion.

Ukrainian-Canadians understand your need to accuse all who oppose you of being fascists of one sort or another. Most Ukrainians in Canada of course came as homesteaders in the late 19th and early 20th century! Thousands of Ukrainian Canadians fought the Nazis in WWII...... while Soviet Russia was AN ALLY OF NAZI GERMANY, as is historical fact!

All Russians are now stupid puppets of Putin and have been ordered to constantly call all Ukrainians "Nazis" in order to childishly hide the facts that:

- Putin has acted just like Hitler, a similarity noted by several world leaders(although Hitler was much, much taller, better looking, and less girlishly vain than Putin, of course),

- that fascism is far more prevalent in Russia than Ukraine (23% of Russians have VOTED FASCIST in past elections but the far right in Ukraine has never polled over 2%!!!!),

-and of course to hide the fact that Putin has FOREVER LOST the closest ally Russia ever had!

You see Putin's ENORMOUS FAILURES need EVEN MORE ENORMOUS LIES to hide them!
Live Free or Die

Williston, VT

#10 Jul 31, 2014
You're a pathetic joke, our topix psycho in residence - and your fascist, war criminal Kiev junta is not long for this world.
George

Red Deer, Canada

#11 Jul 31, 2014
DISGUSTING FASCIST RUSSIA wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the standard of living in the EU and NATO is only several times higher than in Putin's fascist Russia and they could do better. Your fantasies of fascism taking hold in Western Europe as it has in Russia is pure delusion.
Ukrainian-Canadians understand your need to accuse all who oppose you of being fascists of one sort or another. Most Ukrainians in Canada of course came as homesteaders in the late 19th and early 20th century! Thousands of Ukrainian Canadians fought the Nazis in WWII...... while Soviet Russia was AN ALLY OF NAZI GERMANY, as is historical fact!
All Russians are now stupid puppets of Putin and have been ordered to constantly call all Ukrainians "Nazis" in order to childishly hide the facts that:
- Putin has acted just like Hitler, a similarity noted by several world leaders(although Hitler was much, much taller, better looking, and less girlishly vain than Putin, of course),
- that fascism is far more prevalent in Russia than Ukraine (23% of Russians have VOTED FASCIST in past elections but the far right in Ukraine has never polled over 2%!!!!),
-and of course to hide the fact that Putin has FOREVER LOST the closest ally Russia ever had!
You see Putin's ENORMOUS FAILURES need EVEN MORE ENORMOUS LIES to hide them!
these proRussian supporters use the tern nazi or fascists when talking about the west or Ukraine to cover when they have nothing to say or want to present some lies to the forum, so when you see these twits using those terms..........you got it!!!

Since: Jul 14

Tbilisi, Georgia

#12 Aug 1, 2014
Russian behavior unacceptable! Sanctions on Russia! You sponsor terrorists, you end up ruling a hermit kingdom Putin. Can't really call him President, they don't have elections in Russia, he's illegitimate really.
Karmarim

Sliema, Malta

#13 Aug 1, 2014
DISGUSTING FASCIST RUSSIA wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the standard of living in the EU and NATO is only several times higher than in Putin's fascist Russia and they could do better. Your fantasies of fascism taking hold in Western Europe as it has in Russia is pure delusion.
Ukrainian-Canadians understand your need to accuse all who oppose you of being fascists of one sort or another. Most Ukrainians in Canada of course came as homesteaders in the late 19th and early 20th century! Thousands of Ukrainian Canadians fought the Nazis in WWII...... while Soviet Russia was AN ALLY OF NAZI GERMANY, as is historical fact!
All Russians are now stupid puppets of Putin and have been ordered to constantly call all Ukrainians "Nazis" in order to childishly hide the facts that:
- Putin has acted just like Hitler, a similarity noted by several world leaders(although Hitler was much, much taller, better looking, and less girlishly vain than Putin, of course),
- that fascism is far more prevalent in Russia than Ukraine (23% of Russians have VOTED FASCIST in past elections but the far right in Ukraine has never polled over 2%!!!!),
-and of course to hide the fact that Putin has FOREVER LOST the closest ally Russia ever had!
You see Putin's ENORMOUS FAILURES need EVEN MORE ENORMOUS LIES to hide them!
Are you sure, like I said before even Bulgaria and Romania which are far worse off than Russia and most actually want to rejoin Russia when they were better off than they were now. What about Greece where people are continuously setting themselves on fire, or even the prosperous UK where the only work young people can find is no pay contracts, modern day slavery.

"Your fantasies of fascism" I didn't say facism I said right-wing, Le Penn, Nigel Farage, etc are right-wing conservatives and there main goal is dissolve the EU and stop immigration especially from Eastern Europe.

P.S. It doesn't matter whether you use CAPS or repeat it multiple times, its magically going to become true. Putin may not be the best but his failure are sure less than any other Russian president, Yeltsin for example.
George

Red Deer, Canada

#14 Aug 1, 2014
RUSSIA HAS NO CREDIBILITY wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, people in Eastern Ukraine see the poverty and hardship of their Crimean dupes, hear the empty promises and lies.......then they look to the EU and NATO and think; "We're being used and swindled by a Nazi liar!"
Wake up and "smell the Moscow Fascist" people of Eastern Ukraine!
You belong in the free and prosperous West, and your brothers in West Ukraine will lead you to a better future!
People from Ukraine were still leaving in the tens of thousands to Ukraine but now the border is closed to prevent any more from leaving.
rio

London, UK

#15 Aug 1, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
People from Ukraine were still leaving in the tens of thousands to Ukraine but now the border is closed to prevent any more from leaving.
You mean that people from East Ukraine were still leaving in the tens of thousands to Russia.

I can't blame them. Even if peace is restored, they have no future in Nazi Ukraine.

East Ukrainians will constantly be discriminated by the Nazi Ukrainian regime in Kiev.

All their lives have been destroyed, their houses, their jobs, etc...

They better start a new life in a new country that will look after them, and protect them from Nazi Ukrainian barbarism.

I hope many will join Russia and find a place in decent country.
Live Free or Die

Williston, VT

#16 Aug 1, 2014
Karmarim wrote:
<quoted text>
What you just is pro-Putin. Eastern Ukrainian, Crimea was an autonomous self-governmed region (like Kosovo) hence had every-right to self-determination. Eastern Ukraine is not. You basically just showed Putin is respecting International law.
Interesting point. Kosovo in fact was offered full resumption of its autonomous status by Belgrade but it was rejected out of hand by the KLA and its sponsors in Washington, so by logical extrapolation, although Eastern Ukraine was never even offered autonomous status by Kiev, had it been it would have had an equal right to reject it and demand a compete severance of ties with Kiev.

Washington's foreign policy is so tied up in knots of contradiction that Bertrand Russell turns in his grave on a daily basis.
Live Free or Die

Williston, VT

#17 Aug 1, 2014
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't blame them. Even if peace is restored, they have no future in Nazi Ukraine.
East Ukrainians will constantly be discriminated by the Nazi Ukrainian regime in Kiev.
All their lives have been destroyed, their houses, their jobs, etc...
They better start a new life in a new country that will look after them, and protect them from Nazi Ukrainian barbarism.
I hope many will join Russia and find a place in decent country.
This was Kiev's goal from the start. It is, by all definitions possible, an ethnic-cleansing campaign.

Tymoshenko's remark about what to do with ethnic Russians in Ukraine was not just a slip of the tongue. These pigs sitting in Kiev wholeheartedly believe it.
rio

London, UK

#18 Aug 1, 2014
Live Free or Die wrote:
<quoted text>
This was Kiev's goal from the start. It is, by all definitions possible, an ethnic-cleansing campaign.
Tymoshenko's remark about what to do with ethnic Russians in Ukraine was not just a slip of the tongue. These pigs sitting in Kiev wholeheartedly believe it.
Russia becoming a land of asylum.

Who would have thought of that?

Between Crimea and the refugees, Russia gained a few millions of people, did it not?
rio

London, UK

#19 Aug 1, 2014
THEOCRATICIAN wrote:
Russian behavior unacceptable! Sanctions on Russia! You sponsor terrorists, you end up ruling a hermit kingdom Putin. Can't really call him President, they don't have elections in Russia, he's illegitimate really.
Your beloved West also sponsors terrorism, but you don't say anything about that, Knight Hospitalier!
Live Free or Die

Williston, VT

#20 Aug 1, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
these proRussian supporters use the tern nazi or fascists when talking about the west or Ukraine to cover when they have nothing to say or want to present some lies to the forum, so when you see these twits using those terms..........you got it!!!
There is ample evidence of fascist influences in Kiev, fellow. Simply research the history of svoboda and right sector and the Kiev regime's own public declarations.

On the other hand, when you hear pro-Kiev supporters using 'fascist' to describe those who oppose Kiev's war crimes, it's a transparent effort at obfuscation, deflection and transference, nothing more.

You really should consider ginko biloba to salvage what's left of your mind.

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