ESI Bids to Break Macedonia 'Name' Deadlock

Dec 3, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: BalkanInsight.com

The lead analyst of the European Stability Initiative, Gerald Knaus, said the solution would foresee a change to Macedonia's name that would come into force permanently on the day that the country joined the EU.

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Since: Jul 12

Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney

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#1
Dec 3, 2012
 

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Time for FYROM to choose a "geographical qualifier" ie Northern/Upper/Slav/New "Macedonia" (which ever one FYROM decides to pick) to be used "erga omnes" ie in all bilateral and international matters when dealing with other countries.

FYROM should choose a new name and then we can all move on.

I do not agree with the point of the geographical qualifier not applying in FYROMs national languages.

Again I prefer that FYROM did not use the term "Macedonia" in any part of their new name, but when a geographical qualifier is added, I think over time I will learn to accept it.
CANADEZOS

Scarborough, Canada

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Dec 3, 2012
 

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Bill_Sydney_Aus wrote:
Time for FYROM to choose a "geographical qualifier" ie Northern/Upper/Slav/New "Macedonia" (which ever one FYROM decides to pick) to be used "erga omnes" ie in all bilateral and international matters when dealing with other countries.
FYROM should choose a new name and then we can all move on.
I do not agree with the point of the geographical qualifier not applying in FYROMs national languages.
Again I prefer that FYROM did not use the term "Macedonia" in any part of their new name, but when a geographical qualifier is added, I think over time I will learn to accept it.
GREECE MUST NEVER ALLOW THE BULGARIAN SLAVS & THE TURKOALBANIANS OF FORMER YUGOSLAVIA VARDASKA BANOVINA! TO MISAPPROPRIATE THE HELLENIC NAME MAKEDONIA!IN ORDER TO IDENTIFY THEIR SLAVOBULGARIAN IDENTITY!INCLUDING THEIR SLAVOBULGARIAN LANGUAGE!AS A MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE==>>WHEN IN FACT IT'S A SLAVIC LANGUAGE!MACEDONIAN NOTHING!

Since: Jul 12

Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney

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Dec 3, 2012
 

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CANADEZOS wrote:
<quoted text>GREECE MUST NEVER ALLOW THE BULGARIAN SLAVS & THE TURKOALBANIANS OF FORMER YUGOSLAVIA VARDASKA BANOVINA! TO MISAPPROPRIATE THE HELLENIC NAME MAKEDONIA!IN ORDER TO IDENTIFY THEIR SLAVOBULGARIAN IDENTITY!INCLUDING THEIR SLAVOBULGARIAN LANGUAGE!AS A MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE==>>WHEN IN FACT IT'S A SLAVIC LANGUAGE!MACEDONIAN NOTHING!
The current position of Greece is that they will allow FYROM to use the term "Macedonia" as long as a geographical qualifier is used with it i.e., Northern Macedonia, Upper Macedonia, New Macedonia, Slavomacedonia, Vardar Macedonia, anything similar to these examples,(obviously this new name has to be agreed on by both parties). Another condition from Greece is that the new name has to be used "Erga omens" i.e. FYROM has to use this new name when dealing with all countries in both bilateral and international affairs -(i.e. the new name is to be used by everyone.(Most simple description I can come up with))

This will distinguish between Aegean/Ancient Macedonia in Greece, Pirin Macedonia in Bulgaria and FYROM.

I also dont agree with FYROM using the term "Macedonia" in any part of their new name, but at the end of the day Macedonia is a region which crosses over three modern day countries, so no one should have exclusive rights to using the term "Macedonia" on its own.

I think Greece is being more than fair and is meeting FYROM in the middle, it is time FYROM grows up, accepts its new name and then everyone can move on.
HELLENIC KIWI

Manukau City, New Zealand

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#4
Dec 3, 2012
 
Gidday Aussie,Hiya Cannuck !!!

I would prefer they use the name:-
MAKEDONIJA,or Makedonski, or some other Slavic equivelant in this compropise formula rather than the English form of MACEDONIA.

Nikos.

PAPOULI]DODE]NIKOS.

AUCKLAND NEW ZEALAND.

Since: Jul 12

Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney

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#5
Dec 3, 2012
 
HELLENIC KIWI wrote:
Gidday Aussie,Hiya Cannuck !!!
I would prefer they use the name:-
MAKEDONIJA,or Makedonski, or some other Slavic equivelant in this compropise formula rather than the English form of MACEDONIA.
Nikos.
PAPOULI]DODE]NIKOS.
AUCKLAND NEW ZEALAND.
Hi Hellenic KIWI

I do not agree with your proposal for the new official name of FYROM because lets face it we live in a world were the english language is used universally, I do not think a slavic equivalent of the word "Macedonia" will work because in english it will just translate back to Macedonia and this is what most english speaking countries will probably just call the country (as people always do what is easiest when they are not fully aware of the situation), I CAN NOT see any english speaking country using the term Makedonija or Makedonski.

But you do raise a valid point maybe Makedonija or Makedonski should be used for FYROMs official language (along with Albanian - I just had to throw that one in there). This will certainly distinguish their language from the ancient Macedonians (who spoke a Hellenic language) and will certainly show their language is most definitely slavic in nature.

I think Greece might also look at changing the name of their region to Aegean or Ancient Macedonia at the same time FYROM changes over to their new name, that way there will be no confusion between the two areas. Im not sure if this will help or stall the process.

Finally, where are all the people on the FYROM side, I would like to hear your thoughts/ideas on what we have proposed here. It looks like, you are all in hiding, by your lack of activity on this topic.
CANADEZOS

Scarborough, Canada

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Dec 3, 2012
 

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Bill_Sydney_Aus wrote:
<quoted text>
The current position of Greece is that they will allow FYROM to use the term "Macedonia" as long as a geographical qualifier is used with it i.e., Northern Macedonia, Upper Macedonia, New Macedonia, Slavomacedonia, Vardar Macedonia, anything similar to these examples,(obviously this new name has to be agreed on by both parties). Another condition from Greece is that the new name has to be used "Erga omens" i.e. FYROM has to use this new name when dealing with all countries in both bilateral and international affairs -(i.e. the new name is to be used by everyone.(Most simple description I can come up with))
This will distinguish between Aegean/Ancient Macedonia in Greece, Pirin Macedonia in Bulgaria and FYROM.
I also dont agree with FYROM using the term "Macedonia" in any part of their new name, but at the end of the day Macedonia is a region which crosses over three modern day countries, so no one should have exclusive rights to using the term "Macedonia" on its own.
I think Greece is being more than fair and is meeting FYROM in the middle, it is time FYROM grows up, accepts its new name and then everyone can move on.
SLAVOMACEDONIA!GORNOMACEDONIA! OR VARDARMACEDONIA ARE THE MOST APPROPRIATE NAMES!
*** ALSO THE ALBANIAN IDENTITY MUST ALSO BE INCLUDED IN THE NAME ISSUE!
WeAreSlavsNoMace donians

Chicago, IL

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Dec 3, 2012
 

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“From the day that Republic of Macedonia joins the European Union the international name of the country will be XYZ, used erga omnes in all languages other than the official languages of the country,” Knaus proposes.

XYZ sounds good name !

Since: Jul 12

Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney

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#8
Dec 3, 2012
 

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CANADEZOS wrote:
<quoted text>SLAVOMACEDONIA!GORNOMA CEDONIA! OR VARDARMACEDONIA ARE THE MOST APPROPRIATE NAMES!
*** ALSO THE ALBANIAN IDENTITY MUST ALSO BE INCLUDED IN THE NAME ISSUE!
Hey CANADEZOS

I also agree with you, either of those two names seem very fitting, but I doubt they will be chosen for FYROMs new name.

You do raise a good point with the 25% of Albanians, they probably want the country's new name to be East Albania or something along those lines. What FYROM has to realise is, that the slavic people in FYROM are experiencing a decline in birth rates (I read this on the MINA website, I don't have a link to the article - I could be wrong as MINA always tells the story how they want it to be told) and I suspect Albania being 70% muslims are probably producing children like a production line (I could be wrong about this, I again don't have any statistics about birth rates among Albanian people in FYROM). But my point is maybe in 20 years time if this name dispute is not solved, there might be 30 - 35% Albanians in FYROM, which will definitely be interesting in a political context. If this is the case then Albanians will certainly have enough of a percentage in parliament to have their voice heard. Anyway this is hypothetical and NOT based on any facts (so don't grill me too much on it, ok), but something FYROM should think about.

Again where are all the people on the FYROM side, Are they still in hiding? I would definitely like to hear your thoughts on this proposition (as long as its in a civil debate/manner and not a link to one of those stupid youtube videos we see here all the time)

Since: Jul 12

Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney

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Dec 3, 2012
 

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CANADEZOS wrote:
<quoted text>SLAVOMACEDONIA!GORNOMA CEDONIA! OR VARDARMACEDONIA ARE THE MOST APPROPRIATE NAMES!
*** ALSO THE ALBANIAN IDENTITY MUST ALSO BE INCLUDED IN THE NAME ISSUE!
Sorry Canadezos,

I misread the names you came up with because they where all stuck together, I thought it was all one word.

Slavomacedonia
Gornomacedonia
Vardarmacedonia

they all seem very appropriate, any of those will do if agreed on by both countries.
Hellenic Rambo

Kogarah, Australia

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WeAreSlavsNoMacedonians wrote:
“From the day that Republic of Macedonia joins the European Union the international name of the country will be XYZ, used erga omnes in all languages other than the official languages of the country,” Knaus proposes.
XYZ sounds good name !
solved! XYZDonia,nationality XYZdonian got a nice ring to it
Hellenic Rambo

Kogarah, Australia

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Dec 3, 2012
 

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The alexander exhibition at sydney museum,you watch the boxheads will go to it they"ll see the greek inscriptions and they cause drama saying its wrong
risto

United States

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Dec 4, 2012
 

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hw bout we ust say f it abd we dont change nothing we keep macedonia i am macedonian from macedonia and i say f u all we keep thae name
PRIAPOS

Athens, Greece

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#13
Dec 4, 2012
 
risto wrote:
hw bout we ust say f it abd we dont change nothing we keep macedonia i am macedonian from macedonia and i say f u all we keep thae name
"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."

"We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia".

Kiro Gligorov, first president of Vardaria/ FYRO"m"

got it, SLAV?

Since: Jul 12

Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney

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Dec 4, 2012
 

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risto wrote:
hw bout we ust say f it abd we dont change nothing we keep macedonia i am macedonian from macedonia and i say f u all we keep thae name
RISTO

Lets take out all the other historical, religious and language disputes and just talk about the name of the country.

Why do you believe that FYROM should have exclusive rights to use the term "Macedonia", don't you think it is more appropriate for you to use something like "Northern Macedonia" as your country is located in the northern part of the greater region of Macedonia.

I dont understand why this is so hard for all the nationalist in FYROM to accept. Do you want to see FYROM progress and become a great modern country or would you rather see it continue the same path with this conflict over its head.

I think it is time to move on, both GREECE and FYROM have to reach an agreement.
Dejan

Vinica, Macedonia

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#15
Dec 4, 2012
 
When the greek nationalists will understand that to pressure someone to change his name and identity is pure fascism? And that we will see that the fascist lose.
And on the other side we never demanded greece not to use the name Macedonia.
Although they tried everything so to erase the name before 1988, we have no problem them to use it now however they please.

I think this thread doesn't deserve my post, but there you go...
PHILIP THE MACEDONIAN

Gratkorn, Austria

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#16
Dec 4, 2012
 
Long live Macedonia ! Long live the Hellenism!
Macedonians are Greeks since 3000 years.
Greek history of Macedonia:

Philipp II was a Greek Olympionike! Not a Slavobulgar.
See Plutarch:

5 Be that as it may, Alexander was born early in the month Hecatombaeon,5 the Macedonian name for which is Loüs, on the sixth day of the month, and on this day the temple of Ephesian Artemis was burnt. 6 It was apropos of this that Hegesias the Magnesian made an utterance frigid enough to have extinguished that great conflagration. He said, namely, it was no wonder that the temple of Artemis was burned down, since the goddess was busy bringing Alexander into the world. 7 But all the Magi who were then at Ephesus, looking upon the temple's disaster as a sign of further disaster, ran about beating their faces and crying aloud that woe and great calamity for Asia had that day been born. 8 To Philip, however, who had just taken Potidaea, there came three messages at the same time: the first that Parmenio had conquered the Illyrians in a great battle, the second that his race-horse had won a victory at the Olympic games, while a third announced the birth of Alexander. 9 These things delighted him, of course, and the seers raised his hopes still higher by declaring that the son whose birth coincided with three victories would be always victorious.
h
ttp://penelope.uchicago.edu/Th ayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Li ves/Alexander*/3.html

Since: Jul 12

Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney

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#17
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Dejan wrote:
When the greek nationalists will understand that to pressure someone to change his name and identity is pure fascism? And that we will see that the fascist lose.
And on the other side we never demanded greece not to use the name Macedonia.
Although they tried everything so to erase the name before 1988, we have no problem them to use it now however they please.
I think this thread doesn't deserve my post, but there you go...
Hey Dejan thanks for your reply,

I am not saying anything about changing your identity. I DO NOT agree or recognise thats there is a link with the current people of FYROM and the Ancient people of Macedon (who spread a Hellenic culture), but at the end of the day if this is what you believe than I respect it, but at the same time I DO NOT recognise it. Remember only the nationalist in FYROM believe there is this link, not everyone in FYROM believes it.

I don't think it is right that FYROM has the exclusive right to used the name "Macedonia" . The Greek position of a "geographical qualifier" being used with the term Macedonia is very fair and will make it very clear to the world the difference between the modern country of FYROM and the Greek region of Macedonia. Don't you this this is fair?

I don't know where this bullshit about Greece not using the term "Macedonia" before 1988 comes from and I have never seen any evidence to prove this. Can you show me how you come to this conclusion?

Since: Jul 12

Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney

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#18
Dec 4, 2012
 
PHILIP THE MACEDONIAN wrote:
Long live Macedonia ! Long live the Hellenism!
Macedonians are Greeks since 3000 years.
Greek history of Macedonia:
Philipp II was a Greek Olympionike! Not a Slavobulgar.
See Plutarch:
5 Be that as it may, Alexander was born early in the month Hecatombaeon,5 the Macedonian name for which is Loüs, on the sixth day of the month, and on this day the temple of Ephesian Artemis was burnt. 6 It was apropos of this that Hegesias the Magnesian made an utterance frigid enough to have extinguished that great conflagration. He said, namely, it was no wonder that the temple of Artemis was burned down, since the goddess was busy bringing Alexander into the world. 7 But all the Magi who were then at Ephesus, looking upon the temple's disaster as a sign of further disaster, ran about beating their faces and crying aloud that woe and great calamity for Asia had that day been born. 8 To Philip, however, who had just taken Potidaea, there came three messages at the same time: the first that Parmenio had conquered the Illyrians in a great battle, the second that his race-horse had won a victory at the Olympic games, while a third announced the birth of Alexander. 9 These things delighted him, of course, and the seers raised his hopes still higher by declaring that the son whose birth coincided with three victories would be always victorious.
h
ttp://penelope.uchicago.edu/Th ayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Li ves/Alexander*/3.html
Philip the Macedonian,

We can all copy and paste, this topic is about the name issue, please stick to the topic, If you have an opinion on this topic (which does not include copying and pasting or links to propaganda "youtube" videos) then I would like to hear them. No need to reduce yourself to that level.

Thanks
my 2 cents

Melbourne, Australia

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#19
Dec 4, 2012
 
Let's start off by talking about the Treaty of Bucharest.... What are your thoughts on that Simon?
Hellenic Rambo

Sydney, Australia

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#20
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Dejan wrote:
When the greek nationalists will understand that to pressure someone to change his name and identity is pure fascism? And that we will see that the fascist lose.
And on the other side we never demanded greece not to use the name Macedonia.
Although they tried everything so to erase the name before 1988, we have no problem them to use it now however they please.
I think this thread doesn't deserve my post, but there you go...
before 1988?what a load of propagandist shit,i have encylopedias and atlas from the 50's showing the region macedonia on the map.please stop bullshitting,even newspaper articles from the early 1900"s saying MAKEDONIA so your a lier pure and simple

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