What of the Tatars?

No one can claim to speak for all of Crimea, but its Tatars, returned from Soviet-era exile, can hardly welcome Russia's embrace. Full Story
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Since: Oct 08

Toronto, Canada

#1 Mar 30, 2014
No one can claim to speak for all of Crimea, but its Tatars, returned from Soviet-era exile, can hardly welcome Russia’s embrace.

Victims of any military action are inevitable, and Russia’s pretence that it is bringing troops into another sovereign country “to protect Russian nationals” should convince nobody. Among the planned victims are the indigenous Crimean Tatars, who in just over two months will be commemorating the 70th anniversary of their deportation as a people from their native land. In May 1944 it was Stalin who used defamation and propaganda to try to justify a terrible crime. In March 2014, it is Vladimir Putin.

There is probably no reason to doubt the sincerity of those ethnic Russians in the Crimea who are loudly welcoming the moves by Russia that began with the effective seizure of Simferopol on 27 February. Neither Russian flag-waving crowds nor the unprecedented 95,000 ethnic Russians and Russian-speakers who have in the last 36 hours told Putin that they don’t want Russia’s “help” can in themselves prove what the majority in the Crimea want.

Nor can the deployment of Russian troops.

The reports in the Western media on Saturday that only Russian supporters were visible were superficial and misleading. Ukraine’s leaders in Kyiv and the leaders of the Crimean Tatars had called on people to avoid escalating the situation. Certain moves, such as the attempt to seize the building of the Mejlis (the representative body) of the Crimean Tatars, were almost certainly aimed at provoking confrontation between the Tatars and pro-Russian groups.

When the Crimean Tatars did not succumb to provocation, Russia came up with a supposed attack, resulting in casualties, on the Interior Ministry building in Simferopol. Although the police shortly refuted the entire story as never having happened, an appeal for “Russian help and support” was issued by Sergei Aksenov. A Russian national, Aksenov supposedly ousted the Crimea’s prime minister, Anatoly Mohylyov, during a vote in the seized parliamentary building on 27 February. In the last parliamentary elections, Aksenov’s Russian Unity party received only 4 percent of the votes and just three seats in parliament.

The plans for a referendum allegedly “adopted” in a parliament surrounded by gunmen should not be seen as even providing a thin democratic coating. According to Article 73 of Ukraine’s constitution, any referendum on changes to Ukraine’s territory must be nationwide. On 1 March, Aksenov announced not only that he was seeking “Russian protection,” but also that the “referendum” would be held at the end of March. With gunmen presumably protecting Russian nationals’ interests at the polling stations.

The basic recipe for intervention has been used before – in Transdniester, in Abkhazia. The situation in Ukraine is different. This is in part due to Putin’s impatience and obvious rage after all plans to bring Ukraine into line through large loans brokered with former President Viktor Yanukovych failed. Only his domestic audience, fed by a largely subservient media, can possibly believe the pretence about “protecting Russian nationals.”

The permission from Russia’s rubber-stamp legislative bodies to deploy troops on Ukrainian territory, not just the Crimea, also steeply raises the stakes.

Since: Oct 08

Toronto, Canada

#2 Mar 30, 2014
Even if this carte blanche proves to be saber-rattling and interference is confined to the Crimea, there remains one other vital difference. The Crimea is the homeland of the country’s indigenous population, the Crimean Tatars. Once deported en masse, they always dreamed of returning, and were welcomed back, if not provided with adequate measures to meet their needs, as soon as Ukraine gained independence. The Crimean Tatars are happy to be Ukrainians and are adamant that their native homeland is a part of Ukraine. They have no other, and any attempt to change the Crimea’s status would leave up to 15 percent of the peninsula’s population, its indigenous people, without a place to go. After years of strained relations with pro-Russian groups, as well as for historic reasons, any measures to bring the Crimea closer to the Russian Federation would meet with strong resistance.

It is likely that this resistance is what Putin is trying to provoke, with inevitable bloodshed used to justify intervention, greater control in Ukraine, or simply to avenge himself for yet another aborted attempt to rebuild Russia’s empire.

There would be more than merely moral betrayal if the West does not adequately enforce the Budapest Memorandum and all international guarantees of Ukraine’s territorial integrity. This would particularly betray the Crimean Tatars, whose rights the OSCE and EU have repeatedly called for the reinstatement of.

There would also be political danger. Ukraine is now so vulnerable because it gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994 in exchange for guarantees from the United States and Russia of its territorial integrity. What price any such agreements if this one is flagrantly breached? It is no accident that the Munich Agreement has been repeatedly recalled over recent days, nor that Poland is at the forefront of demands that the EU and NATO take strong measures. Poland has every reason to remember the fake elections used after World War II to provide justification for Stalin taking control of the country. It understands, as we all should, that unimpeded acts of military aggression against a neighboring state pose a danger far beyond Ukraine’s borders.
lolski

Miami, FL

#3 Mar 31, 2014
a tatar, ain't that the same as a monkeydonian, a skopian?
George

Red Deer, Canada

#4 Mar 31, 2014
just a guy i knew wrote:
Even if this carte blanche proves to be saber-rattling and interference is confined to the Crimea, there remains one other vital difference. The Crimea is the homeland of the country’s indigenous population, the Crimean Tatars. Once deported en masse, they always dreamed of returning, and were welcomed back, if not provided with adequate measures to meet their needs, as soon as Ukraine gained independence. The Crimean Tatars are happy to be Ukrainians and are adamant that their native homeland is a part of Ukraine. They have no other, and any attempt to change the Crimea’s status would leave up to 15 percent of the peninsula’s population, its indigenous people, without a place to go. After years of strained relations with pro-Russian groups, as well as for historic reasons, any measures to bring the Crimea closer to the Russian Federation would meet with strong resistance.
It is likely that this resistance is what Putin is trying to provoke, with inevitable bloodshed used to justify intervention, greater control in Ukraine, or simply to avenge himself for yet another aborted attempt to rebuild Russia’s empire.
There would be more than merely moral betrayal if the West does not adequately enforce the Budapest Memorandum and all international guarantees of Ukraine’s territorial integrity. This would particularly betray the Crimean Tatars, whose rights the OSCE and EU have repeatedly called for the reinstatement of.
There would also be political danger. Ukraine is now so vulnerable because it gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994 in exchange for guarantees from the United States and Russia of its territorial integrity. What price any such agreements if this one is flagrantly breached? It is no accident that the Munich Agreement has been repeatedly recalled over recent days, nor that Poland is at the forefront of demands that the EU and NATO take strong measures. Poland has every reason to remember the fake elections used after World War II to provide justification for Stalin taking control of the country. It understands, as we all should, that unimpeded acts of military aggression against a neighboring state pose a danger far beyond Ukraine’s borders.
I think Russia has only begun with Crimea, they have a large minority population that does not want to go to Russia and by Putins own words he wanted to protect only the Russian speaking people or descendants of Russians. Now he must deal with the Tartar people, the Ukranians and other minority groups that are starting to add up to 50% of Crimea, is he going to give up 50% of Crimea back to Ukraine???
tm clms

Victoria, Canada

#5 Mar 31, 2014
lolski wrote:
a tatar, ain't that the same as a monkeydonian, a skopian?
You forgot to mention the Rubbishians....
PROUD TO BE SERB

Australia

#6 Mar 31, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
I think Russia has only begun with Crimea, they have a large minority population that does not want to go to Russia and by Putins own words he wanted to protect only the Russian speaking people or descendants of Russians. Now he must deal with the Tartar people, the Ukranians and other minority groups that are starting to add up to 50% of Crimea, is he going to give up 50% of Crimea back to Ukraine???
If you don't like. Mr Putin I Russia piss of to turkia. Dot Stop.;))
George

Red Deer, Canada

#7 Mar 31, 2014
PROUD TO BE SERB wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't like. Mr Putin I Russia piss of to turkia. Dot Stop.;))
If you are so proRussia and Putin why are you still in Australia?
Oliver Cromwell

Southport, UK

#8 Mar 31, 2014
The Tartars will be welcome in Crimea as long as they don't go all Wahabi and start terrorism,i believe they will be given some sort of Federal status for their region,happy days.
rio

Beckenham, UK

#9 Mar 31, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are so proRussia and Putin why are you still in Australia?
Is that the strength of your argument?

If you are so pro-Ukraine, why don't you piss off there?
PROUD TO BE SERB

Australia

#10 Mar 31, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are so proRussia and Putin why are you still in Australia?
I love Australia my wife is Australian.
I love Russia to. I love the "" KATIUSKA TO""
I and my wife will visit Russia & Crimea this
Summer.

Long live RUSSIA I SRBJIA
George

Red Deer, Canada

#11 Mar 31, 2014
Oliver Cromwell wrote:
The Tartars will be welcome in Crimea as long as they don't go all Wahabi and start terrorism,i believe they will be given some sort of Federal status for their region,happy days.
You missed the point, they do NOT want to be Russia. Much the same as the proRussians did not want to be Ukranian, so how will Putin react to their protests when they want to separate from Russia? I am willing to say he will not negotiate.
George

Red Deer, Canada

#12 Mar 31, 2014
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that the strength of your argument?
If you are so pro-Ukraine, why don't you piss off there?
catch up to the conversation dipshit
Chris

Toronto, Canada

#13 Apr 1, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
You missed the point, they do NOT want to be Russia. Much the same as the proRussians did not want to be Ukranian, so how will Putin react to their protests when they want to separate from Russia? I am willing to say he will not negotiate.
You learned nothing about representative ‘democracy’– the majority rules. There are about 12% Tartars in Crimea, and there are about 60% Russians in Crimea. And, if Tartars want the autonomy, I am sure that Moscow will grant it to them. It would not make much difference for the Peninsula; but of course providing that they do not practise hostile acts towards the rest of Crimean’s.

But, if Tartars are smart, they will include into the main stream; of course with the protections of their cultural heritage. Russia has no problem with preserving cultures, as it has numerous groups within its boundaries, all speaking Russians, but also keeping their cultural and linguistic heritage.

Since: Oct 08

Toronto, Canada

#15 Apr 1, 2014
Who Speaks for Crimea's Tatars?
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/03...
FP talks to Mustapha Dzhemilev about his besieged people and bizarre conversation with Vladimir Putin.
PUTIN

Scarborough, Canada

#16 Apr 3, 2014
ALL TATAR MONGOLS WILL BE EXTERMINATED FROM CRIMEA! THEY WILL BE SHIPPED BACK TO TURKEY AND MONGOLIA!
George

Red Deer, Canada

#17 Apr 3, 2014
Chris wrote:
<quoted text>
You learned nothing about representative ‘democracy’– the majority rules. There are about 12% Tartars in Crimea, and there are about 60% Russians in Crimea. And, if Tartars want the autonomy, I am sure that Moscow will grant it to them. It would not make much difference for the Peninsula; but of course providing that they do not practise hostile acts towards the rest of Crimean’s.
But, if Tartars are smart, they will include into the main stream; of course with the protections of their cultural heritage. Russia has no problem with preserving cultures, as it has numerous groups within its boundaries, all speaking Russians, but also keeping their cultural and linguistic heritage.
You seem to forget history, Russia threw the Tatars to the garbage when they were the majority of Crimea, why on earth would they trust Russia now? I think, especially now, after the evidence of the Russian involvement in Kiev, there will be a new referendum with all citizens of Crimea voting not just the proRussian. Yanukovich shot Putin in the foot as well by admitting he was the one asking Russia to Crimea and bringing explosives from Russia to Kiev, it is the people of Crimea that are being enlightened right now and it does not look good for Putin
Canuck

Canora, Canada

#18 Apr 3, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to forget history, Russia threw the Tatars to the garbage when they were the majority of Crimea, why on earth would they trust Russia now? I think, especially now, after the evidence of the Russian involvement in Kiev, there will be a new referendum with all citizens of Crimea voting not just the proRussian. Yanukovich shot Putin in the foot as well by admitting he was the one asking Russia to Crimea and bringing explosives from Russia to Kiev, it is the people of Crimea that are being enlightened right now and it does not look good for Putin
WTF.... Georgie boy.....Russian involment in Kiev? Everyone knows that the USA was directly involved in the bloody coup at the cost of 5 billion dollars to overthrow the democratically elected President and install a violent Nazi junta in Kiev causing instability in Ukraine.
There are photos of Victoria Nuland handing out lunch to the radical Nazi elements at Maidan Square. John McInsane Mcain was also rubbing shoulders and offering support to the criminal Nazi hoard as well. Birds of a feather flock together I guess.
Another referendum in Crimea? Dream on Georgie Porgie....the Crimeans have voted and are very happy and safe with the Russian Federation.
You may wish to find a more credible news source to get your information from because your posts make you sound like a raving lunatic.
Oliver Cromwell

Southport, UK

#19 Apr 3, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
You missed the point, they do NOT want to be Russia. Much the same as the proRussians did not want to be Ukranian, so how will Putin react to their protests when they want to separate from Russia? I am willing to say he will not negotiate.
I told you clown,they will probably get some Federal status they can enjoy their lives,if they go terrorist then they will have a problem.
George

Red Deer, Canada

#20 Apr 3, 2014
Oliver Cromwell wrote:
<quoted text> I told you clown,they will probably get some Federal status they can enjoy their lives,if they go terrorist then they will have a problem.
They are doing what Russia did, asking for their land back, seems fair if it was good for Putin the same rules should apply. Putin logic was to protect Russian speaking people not Tatars or Ukranian so make the chalk line and live with it

Since: Nov 09

Podolsk, Russia

#21 Apr 3, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
They are doing what Russia did, asking for their land back, seems fair if it was good for Putin the same rules should apply. Putin logic was to protect Russian speaking people not Tatars or Ukranian so make the chalk line and live with it
What about Indians in Canada?
If we are going to employ the chalk line logic you yoursleves will not get anywhere.
Just better stop.

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