The extinct Harla ethnic group

“Virgin for sale”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#21 Mar 16, 2013
cognito wrote:
http://books.google.com/books? id=2E6uEjjKlQ0C&lpg=PA152 &dq=la%20conquista%20musul mana%20dell&pg=PA152#v=one page&q=la%20conquista%20mu sulmana%20dell&f=false
Thanks cognito.
cognito

San Jose, CA

#22 Mar 16, 2013
yvw bro :)
cognito

San Jose, CA

#23 Mar 16, 2013
kalideza wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks cognito.
yvw, bro :)
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#24 Mar 16, 2013
Alex wrote:
<quoted text>
Wolf Leslau reconstructed the grammar of Gafat after it went extinct in the 1940s from a "song of Solomon" Gafats prepared to receive James Bruce in 1779(or around there).
Correction: it should have been 1769
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#25 Mar 16, 2013
cognito wrote:
“Harla – in the name of a population that is mentioned in Arabic and Ethiopia historical sources since the 14th cent. IN-al-mfaddal’s chronicle (quoted in CerIslam 264) they are subject to the[ king of Abyssinia], together with Damot, in later sources, the so-called chrocile of Amdi Scion. The Futuh –al- habash and the Awsa chronicle, they are allied to such Muslim leaders as the Qadi, Salib, Ahmad b. Ibrahim al-Ghazi and the Imam Muhammed. In the Futuh the Harla are one of the four main components of Imam’s army, together with the Somali, the Ma’la’say and the Arabs – one of their main settlement areas (Arab-balad) in Zarba (Bassttist 97)
The late, Fath Madinat Harar, reports one of the oral traditions that is told now in south- eastern Ethiopia. The Harla were a tribe that lived in the region of Harar in older times and dispersed because of plague and famine (cf. Wag Fath 46f)
…..According to other traditions, the Harla were giants who built the ruined settlements in the area of Giggiga and were punished by God, who sent against them a terrible wind that transformed everybody it reached into large rocks, still to be seen between Dire Dawa and Harar ( S. Mohammed Abdi, Mohammed 1990-350). Between these two towns there is also a village called Harla, where an Arabic funerary inscription from 44? Hijri (ca 1048-57) A.D) has been founded (Schneider 1969)
At the end of the day: More field research both by anthropologists and archeologists and by linguist is needed on this interesting and fascinating subject.”
Thanks cognito for very rich sources on Harla, writeen about in pieces here and there without coming together as a body of knowledge on the extinct Harla group. Could Zerba be another name for Zeila by yet another culture because Lion of Harar told a tradition that stated Zaila was one Harla's land?

Lion of Harar provided information from an author Yaha Ibn Nasrallha who mentioned Harla as the group of people migrants from Mekka encountered around 612 A.D.

The Harla were not extinct as late as 16th century, because, according to Futuh el-Habesha, a book that chronicled the war between Atse Lbna Dngl and Imam Ahmed el-Ghazi in this century testifies their existence as soldiers of the Imam. If this true, when did they go extinct assuming their language was semitic, a close relative of Argoba, Gafat or Gurage?

“Virgin for sale”

Since: Feb 13

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#26 Mar 16, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
By the way, wish me luck, I'm in the process of translating "Fat7 Madinat Harar" from Arabic to English. It has only been translated into German from what I hear, but it is an unpublished book that is in its handwritten stage right now. We got it in the collection of my great grandfather, Aw A7mad Abogn.
Allah be with you.

“Virgin for sale”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#27 Mar 16, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
Well, overall the siltes dialect is very, very close to Adarigna. Before knowing about them, iI personally thought our closest ethnic group in respects to language was Tigrinya, but apparently it is the Silte,'n from what I was told by many elders (that is older than say 70 years of age)is Argobba. There is a annual celebration in Harar called "Wishato" on the 10th of Mu7arram "3Aashuraa." The manner in which it is practiced is identical with the way Silte ppl practice it, and you don't find this outside of the two groups.
As far as Zay is concerend, I really don't know much asides from what you heard.
The Argobba people around Harar, primarily those who live in Korome, which is about 20km away from Harar are probably closest to us in customs. Their houses are the traditional Harari house style with the levels (nadaba called in Adare) in the living rooms. There are 5 levels for sitting that each have a name like "Amir nadaba" 'n "Sufi nadaba" etc. Their women dress in the traditional Adare style clothing. The married ones part their hair in two and and make two buns at the back called "gufta mogad". Some of my relatives in Harar always tell visitors "if you wanna see how we lived say before 100 years ago, go to koromo and see the argobba people." Most of the people of Korome now speak Oromo as their mother tongue, but all the women, and many of the men speak Adare and now make plans to teach their children Adare in their schools, etc. The women know the zikri/menzuma in the Harari language and even classic ones that most Adare women don't know today. My mom told me growing up in Dire Dawa, whenever there was an Adare wedding, they would invite the Argobba women to come and perform zikri/menzuma in Adarigna because of them knowing the old classical ones, and in the manner they would perform which is beautiful as described, also in Harar that custom is alive in inviting them to perform at the weddings.
Personally, based on the findings and research I put together is, these people were one but were of different tribes. Especially atleast 500 years ago, the old Harari tongue, Argobba, Amharic, and other tongues at that point were still at the level of dialects. They would have probably been able to understand one another if they heard the language being spoken, but would know it is definately not their dialect. I read somewhere that Harari and old Amharic were more similar to eachother than today's Amharic. Some elements of old amharic have been lost like the "h" which I use the 7 to signify like "A7mad 7al" meaning A7mad is here whereas in amharic today they would say "Ahmad ale" without prounouncing the "h".
Selam aleykum brother... I found this video on youtube about zay(laqi) people's language. Is there any similarity with harari dialect ?
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#28 Mar 16, 2013
Journey to Korome

I can't make out the language spoken by the people of Korome. Is it in Oromia or outskirts of Harari state?
Stopping desertification is most immediate duty.

“Virgin for sale”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#29 Mar 16, 2013
Alex wrote:
Journey to Korome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =fBmQmJCkbTkXX
I can't make out the language spoken by the people of Korome. Is it in Oromia or outskirts of Harari state?
Stopping desertification is most immediate duty.
"The Argobba people around Harar, primarily those who live in Korome, which is about 20km away from Harar"
Direct quote from lion of harar. Hope it helps
argoba

Toronto, Canada

#30 Mar 16, 2013
kalideza wrote:
They are Oromo now but they claim they are different. They were part of Ahmed Gragn army. Ask cognito and the lion of harar. They can tell you a lot more.
I agree because of ahmed guray were argobba I read history that was ya walasma serwa mangest (walasma president)
argoba

Toronto, Canada

#31 Mar 16, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
Well, overall the siltes dialect is very, very close to Adarigna. Before knowing about them, iI personally thought our closest ethnic group in respects to language was Tigrinya, but apparently it is the Silte,'n from what I was told by many elders (that is older than say 70 years of age)is Argobba. There is a annual celebration in Harar called "Wishato" on the 10th of Mu7arram "3Aashuraa." The manner in which it is practiced is identical with the way Silte ppl practice it, and you don't find this outside of the two groups.
As far as Zay is concerend, I really don't know much asides from what you heard.
The Argobba people around Harar, primarily those who live in Korome, which is about 20km away from Harar are probably closest to us in customs. Their houses are the traditional Harari house style with the levels (nadaba called in Adare) in the living rooms. There are 5 levels for sitting that each have a name like "Amir nadaba" 'n "Sufi nadaba" etc. Their women dress in the traditional Adare style clothing. The married ones part their hair in two and and make two buns at the back called "gufta mogad". Some of my relatives in Harar always tell visitors "if you wanna see how we lived say before 100 years ago, go to koromo and see the argobba people." Most of the people of Korome now speak Oromo as their mother tongue, but all the women, and many of the men speak Adare and now make plans to teach their children Adare in their schools, etc. The women know the zikri/menzuma in the Harari language and even classic ones that most Adare women don't know today. My mom told me growing up in Dire Dawa, whenever there was an Adare wedding, they would invite the Argobba women to come and perform zikri/menzuma in Adarigna because of them knowing the old classical ones, and in the manner they would perform which is beautiful as described, also in Harar that custom is alive in inviting them to perform at the weddings.
Personally, based on the findings and research I put together is, these people were one but were of different tribes. Especially atleast 500 years ago, the old Harari tongue, Argobba, Amharic, and other tongues at that point were still at the level of dialects. They would have probably been able to understand one another if they heard the language being spoken, but would know it is definately not their dialect. I read somewhere that Harari and old Amharic were more similar to eachother than today's Amharic. Some elements of old amharic have been lost like the "h" which I use the 7 to signify like "A7mad 7al" meaning A7mad is here whereas in amharic today they would say "Ahmad ale" without prounouncing the "h".
Wrong argoba enemy was Amhara that time because they want converted argoba Christian and Ahmed guray was argobba man he start kill Christian

Since: Feb 13

Canada

#32 Mar 16, 2013
Actually Alex, what i wrote was, there were 405 Arabs that came from Makkah, led by Shaykh Abadir 3Umar ar-Ridaa and when they arrived at Harar, found that the indigenous people were the Harla and the Gatur. The last time that the Harla's were ever mentioned by name I believe was in writing that dates back to 1556. Who are the indigenous people of Harar today? The Harari (Adare) so what I personally believe were that the Harla were a semitic speaking people who were the ancestors of the Adare, and Silti since they narate that they left Harar during the campaign of Imam A7mad and stayed in the Gurage region. As far as the argobba are concerened, as Harla name I don't think they categorise at that, but were Argobba as a different tribe but the same race.

The clip that kalideza put up about Korome, they are speaking Hadare. Hararis went there to visit them and see how they can work together and to find out info about them and their history.

I wouldn't say the Harla are extinct either. They are found in Harar, most of them have been assimilated by the surrounding Oromo, but the few remanents have survived within the walls of Harar. This is why you find a semitic tongue, in a pocket of a predomenantly cushitic surrounding.

But as an oral tradition, my elders told me that they heard from their elders,'n so on that we were known as Harla, but once the wall was established in the city of Harar the Harla and Gatur re-established themselves as Harari to eliminate tribal fueds.

Selam

Since: Feb 13

Canada

#33 Mar 16, 2013
Brother argobba, amhara wasn't the only enemy of argobba, especially in the time period of Imam A7mad Gragn. The argobba were existent in that time, but were literally only mentioned once in the Futu7 al-7abesha as a region.
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#34 Mar 16, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
Actually Alex, what i wrote was, there were 405 Arabs that came from Makkah, led by Shaykh Abadir 3Umar ar-Ridaa and when they arrived at Harar, found that the indigenous people were the Harla and the Gatur. The last time that the Harla's were ever mentioned by name I believe was in writing that dates back to 1556. Who are the indigenous people of Harar today? The Harari (Adare) so what I personally believe were that the Harla were a semitic speaking people who were the ancestors of the Adare, and Silti since they narate that they left Harar during the campaign of Imam A7mad and stayed in the Gurage region. As far as the argobba are concerened, as Harla name I don't think they categorise at that, but were Argobba as a different tribe but the same race.
The clip that kalideza put up about Korome, they are speaking Hadare. Hararis went there to visit them and see how they can work together and to find out info about them and their history.
I wouldn't say the Harla are extinct either. They are found in Harar, most of them have been assimilated by the surrounding Oromo, but the few remanents have survived within the walls of Harar. This is why you find a semitic tongue, in a pocket of a predomenantly cushitic surrounding.
But as an oral tradition, my elders told me that they heard from their elders,'n so on that we were known as Harla, but once the wall was established in the city of Harar the Harla and Gatur re-established themselves as Harari to eliminate tribal fueds.
Selam
It was me who posted the Korome video link to Youtube.
Interesting that only the name Harla/Gaturi has been dropped after the group adopted the name Harari. The language and some of the old customs were maintained.
In cognito's post , there is a Harla settlement of Zerba. is it another name for zaila?

Since: Feb 13

Canada

#35 Mar 16, 2013
I honestly couldn't tell you Alex.

“Virgin for sale”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#36 Mar 16, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
I honestly couldn't tell you Alex.
What about the zay language YouTube video I linked ?
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#37 Mar 16, 2013
kalideza wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the zay language YouTube video I linked ?
what about t?
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#38 Mar 16, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
I honestly couldn't tell you Alex.
It looks like a host of books in which Harla was found important to be included for reference.
Prior to starting this thread, I had no idea about Harla. First time heard about it from khalid about two weeks before I opened the thread. Now I have some ide. I am sure we will know more about in the future.

Since: Feb 13

Canada

#39 Mar 16, 2013
Hey Khalid, i see a resemblence with a lot of certain words and pronounciation but i'm not a linguist to say how close it is. Check out the "Words of life SILTE people/Language" on youtube to hear the silte language being spoken. When I first heard it, it sent shivers down my spine to see how similar it was to Adare language. They also have one called "Words of life Adare people/langauge" but it's made by christian missionaries. The guy speaking in adare is pretty good, but can tell he's not a genuine Harari.
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#40 Mar 17, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
Actually Alex, what i wrote was, there were 405 Arabs that came from Makkah, led by Shaykh Abadir 3Umar ar-Ridaa and when they arrived at Harar, found that the indigenous people were the Harla and the Gatur. The last time that the Harla's were ever mentioned by name I believe was in writing that dates back to 1556. Who are the indigenous people of Harar today? The Harari (Adare) so what I personally believe were that the Harla were a semitic speaking people who were the ancestors of the Adare, and Silti since they narate that they left Harar during the campaign of Imam A7mad and stayed in the Gurage region. As far as the argobba are concerened, as Harla name I don't think they categorise at that, but were Argobba as a different tribe but the same race.
The clip that kalideza put up about Korome, they are speaking Hadare. Hararis went there to visit them and see how they can work together and to find out info about them and their history.
I wouldn't say the Harla are extinct either. They are found in Harar, most of them have been assimilated by the surrounding Oromo, but the few remanents have survived within the walls of Harar. This is why you find a semitic tongue, in a pocket of a predomenantly cushitic surrounding.
But as an oral tradition, my elders told me that they heard from their elders,'n so on that we were known as Harla, but once the wall was established in the city of Harar the Harla and Gatur re-established themselves as Harari to eliminate tribal fueds.
Selam
I am sure I have not misquoted you.

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