The extinct Harla ethnic group

The extinct Harla ethnic group

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Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#1 Mar 10, 2013
I need more information about the Harla group from individuals who hail from the former Hararge region. Were they the most southeast leg of Argoba, closely related or completely different ling-cultural group? What language have they adopted now, Harari, Oromo or both?
cognito

San Jose, CA

#2 Mar 10, 2013
Alex wrote:
I need more information about the Harla group from individuals who hail from the former Hararge region. Were they the most southeast leg of Argoba, closely related or completely different ling-cultural group? What language have they adopted now, Harari, Oromo or both?
The answer to that, next time i visit this forum :)

“Virgin for sale”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#3 Mar 10, 2013
They are Oromo now but they claim they are different. They were part of Ahmed Gragn army. Ask cognito and the lion of harar. They can tell you a lot more.
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#4 Mar 10, 2013
Cognito, come back soon, please. Where is Lion of Harar?
Harla is one of the two undocumented extinct group of languages in Ethiopia. The other is Chebo Gurage.

Since: Feb 13

Canada

#5 Mar 10, 2013
Well, I have this book unpublished called "Fat7 Madinat Harar" by an author Ya7ya ibn Nasrullaah where it talks about 405 Arabs came to Harar from Makkah in the year 612 after the Hijrah, led by Shaykh Abadir, also with him was his sons, 3Umar Qutbud-Din, 3Aliyy Feeq, A7mad ibn 3Umar among others. Also, Aba Yazeed Bastamiyy, Shaykh Isma3eel Jabartiy, Shaykh Asla7ud-Din, Sufi Ya7ya, Shaykh 3Uthman 3Arabi, and Shareef Yusuf al-Akwaan.
When they reached Harar, the author reports that the ppl of this region were the Harla and Gaturi. The ppl of the land explained to them that 25 years prior, the land was devestated with famine and the people who ruled were the Gaturi people. The Harla and Gaturi are ethnically the same ppl, but 2 tribes that spoke the same language and had the same culture, and customs.

When you read Futu7ul-7abesha, the author, Shihabud-Din A7mad ibn 3Abdul-Qadir bin Saalim bin 3Uthman, also known as Arab Faqih writes that the people of the Harar were the Harla. Among the people of the Harla, he mentions for example Amir Hussein al-Gaturi, so the the name stuck as a last name with many of the indiginous people. I Myself for example, my last name is Gaturi. My family name is "Aw Feqi Hamid Gatur". You also have the Adish family mentioned in the book as the Harla, and also they exist till today in Harar. You also have the Abogn family that exist till today in Harar, also Khalaf, etc.

The Harla people where a sizable populated group that stretched from Zayla, all the way to Shewa. However, when the Oromo raids began from the south northward, many parished or were assimilated by the Oromos. Others fled to the east and were assimilated by the Somalis. When Amir Nur built the wall around the city of Harar, the remanents became enclosed in the city. But when you go around the city of Harar in the outskirts, you see many oromo groups who claim to be descendants of the people of Harar. Also Somali tribes that claim they were originally from Harar. The siltes interestingly claim they remained in the Gurage region, but were from Harar that went to that region with the Imam, also the Wolane. The Silte's till today have customs and practices that you don't find outside the Hararis 'n themselves. I was told by a relative that went to Arusi, that there was a specific group there that all went by the last name Adare, and had many customs similar to the Harari people.

So basically, the Harla reduced in population because of a few series of events. Raids, assimilation, and migration.

Selam

Since: Feb 13

Canada

#6 Mar 10, 2013
By the way, wish me luck, I'm in the process of translating "Fat7 Madinat Harar" from Arabic to English. It has only been translated into German from what I hear, but it is an unpublished book that is in its handwritten stage right now. We got it in the collection of my great grandfather, Aw A7mad Abogn.

Since: Feb 13

Canada

#7 Mar 10, 2013
I forgot to mention, I have Argobba relatives, and and elder told me we are basically the same ppl, but were parted a few centuries ago. But when they narrate their history, and their Kings, it is the identical same story as I was taught and researched about Harar history. My father remembers hearing Argobba being spoken when he was a young lad, and could swear it was not that much different than Adare language.

“Virgin for sale”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#8 Mar 10, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
Well, I have this book unpublished called "Fat7 Madinat Harar" by an author Ya7ya ibn Nasrullaah where it talks about 405 Arabs came to Harar from Makkah in the year 612 after the Hijrah, led by Shaykh Abadir, also with him was his sons, 3Umar Qutbud-Din, 3Aliyy Feeq, A7mad ibn 3Umar among others. Also, Aba Yazeed Bastamiyy, Shaykh Isma3eel Jabartiy, Shaykh Asla7ud-Din, Sufi Ya7ya, Shaykh 3Uthman 3Arabi, and Shareef Yusuf al-Akwaan.
When they reached Harar, the author reports that the ppl of this region were the Harla and Gaturi. The ppl of the land explained to them that 25 years prior, the land was devestated with famine and the people who ruled were the Gaturi people. The Harla and Gaturi are ethnically the same ppl, but 2 tribes that spoke the same language and had the same culture, and customs.

When you read Futu7ul-7abesha, the author, Shihabud-Din A7mad ibn 3Abdul-Qadir bin Saalim bin 3Uthman, also known as Arab Faqih writes that the people of the Harar were the Harla. Among the people of the Harla, he mentions for example Amir Hussein al-Gaturi, so the the name stuck as a last name with many of the indiginous people. I Myself for example, my last name is Gaturi. My family name is "Aw Feqi Hamid Gatur". You also have the Adish family mentioned in the book as the Harla, and also they exist till today in Harar. You also have the Abogn family that exist till today in Harar, also Khalaf, etc.

The Harla people where a sizable populated group that stretched from Zayla, all the way to Shewa. However, when the Oromo raids began from the south northward, many parished or were assimilated by the Oromos. Others fled to the east and were assimilated by the Somalis. When Amir Nur built the wall around the city of Harar, the remanents became enclosed in the city. But when you go around the city of Harar in the outskirts, you see many oromo groups who claim to be descendants of the people of Harar. Also Somali tribes that claim they were originally from Harar. The siltes interestingly claim they remained in the Gurage region, but were from Harar that went to that region with the Imam, also the Wolane. The Silte's till today have customs and practices that you don't find outside the Hararis 'n themselves. I was told by a relative that went to Arusi, that there was a specific group there that all went by the last name Adare, and had many customs similar to the Harari people.

So basically, the Harla reduced in population because of a few series of events. Raids, assimilation, and migration.

Selam
Brilliant. You are different than most people on topix.

“Virgin for sale”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#9 Mar 10, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
By the way, wish me luck, I'm in the process of translating "Fat7 Madinat Harar" from Arabic to English. It has only been translated into German from what I hear, but it is an unpublished book that is in its handwritten stage right now. We got it in the collection of my great grandfather, Aw A7mad Abogn.
I read about harari, silte, and zay people who live on lake zeway share similar languages. What can you tell us about the similarities and differences ? And the argoba people who live in harar ?

Since: Feb 13

Canada

#10 Mar 10, 2013
Well, overall the siltes dialect is very, very close to Adarigna. Before knowing about them, iI personally thought our closest ethnic group in respects to language was Tigrinya, but apparently it is the Silte,'n from what I was told by many elders (that is older than say 70 years of age)is Argobba. There is a annual celebration in Harar called "Wishato" on the 10th of Mu7arram "3Aashuraa." The manner in which it is practiced is identical with the way Silte ppl practice it, and you don't find this outside of the two groups.

As far as Zay is concerend, I really don't know much asides from what you heard.

The Argobba people around Harar, primarily those who live in Korome, which is about 20km away from Harar are probably closest to us in customs. Their houses are the traditional Harari house style with the levels (nadaba called in Adare) in the living rooms. There are 5 levels for sitting that each have a name like "Amir nadaba" 'n "Sufi nadaba" etc. Their women dress in the traditional Adare style clothing. The married ones part their hair in two and and make two buns at the back called "gufta mogad". Some of my relatives in Harar always tell visitors "if you wanna see how we lived say before 100 years ago, go to koromo and see the argobba people." Most of the people of Korome now speak Oromo as their mother tongue, but all the women, and many of the men speak Adare and now make plans to teach their children Adare in their schools, etc. The women know the zikri/menzuma in the Harari language and even classic ones that most Adare women don't know today. My mom told me growing up in Dire Dawa, whenever there was an Adare wedding, they would invite the Argobba women to come and perform zikri/menzuma in Adarigna because of them knowing the old classical ones, and in the manner they would perform which is beautiful as described, also in Harar that custom is alive in inviting them to perform at the weddings.

Personally, based on the findings and research I put together is, these people were one but were of different tribes. Especially atleast 500 years ago, the old Harari tongue, Argobba, Amharic, and other tongues at that point were still at the level of dialects. They would have probably been able to understand one another if they heard the language being spoken, but would know it is definately not their dialect. I read somewhere that Harari and old Amharic were more similar to eachother than today's Amharic. Some elements of old amharic have been lost like the "h" which I use the 7 to signify like "A7mad 7al" meaning A7mad is here whereas in amharic today they would say "Ahmad ale" without prounouncing the "h".

“Virgin for sale”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#11 Mar 10, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
Well, overall the siltes dialect is very, very close to Adarigna. Before knowing about them, iI personally thought our closest ethnic group in respects to language was Tigrinya, but apparently it is the Silte,'n from what I was told by many elders (that is older than say 70 years of age)is Argobba. There is a annual celebration in Harar called "Wishato" on the 10th of Mu7arram "3Aashuraa." The manner in which it is practiced is identical with the way Silte ppl practice it, and you don't find this outside of the two groups.

As far as Zay is concerend, I really don't know much asides from what you heard.

The Argobba people around Harar, primarily those who live in Korome, which is about 20km away from Harar are probably closest to us in customs. Their houses are the traditional Harari house style with the levels (nadaba called in Adare) in the living rooms. There are 5 levels for sitting that each have a name like "Amir nadaba" 'n "Sufi nadaba" etc. Their women dress in the traditional Adare style clothing. The married ones part their hair in two and and make two buns at the back called "gufta mogad". Some of my relatives in Harar always tell visitors "if you wanna see how we lived say before 100 years ago, go to koromo and see the argobba people." Most of the people of Korome now speak Oromo as their mother tongue, but all the women, and many of the men speak Adare and now make plans to teach their children Adare in their schools, etc. The women know the zikri/menzuma in the Harari language and even classic ones that most Adare women don't know today. My mom told me growing up in Dire Dawa, whenever there was an Adare wedding, they would invite the Argobba women to come and perform zikri/menzuma in Adarigna because of them knowing the old classical ones, and in the manner they would perform which is beautiful as described, also in Harar that custom is alive in inviting them to perform at the weddings.

Personally, based on the findings and research I put together is, these people were one but were of different tribes. Especially atleast 500 years ago, the old Harari tongue, Argobba, Amharic, and other tongues at that point were still at the level of dialects. They would have probably been able to understand one another if they heard the language being spoken, but would know it is definately not their dialect. I read somewhere that Harari and old Amharic were more similar to eachother than today's Amharic. Some elements of old amharic have been lost like the "h" which I use the 7 to signify like "A7mad 7al" meaning A7mad is here whereas in amharic today they would say "Ahmad ale" without prounouncing the "h".
Brilliant as you usual. I might come to Toronto in summer to visit my brother's wife sister she lives in Toronto. If I make it, I would like to meet you and Alex there. You both seem interesting people to talk to. Do you happen to know any eritrean Muslims in Toronto ?

Since: Feb 13

Toronto, Canada

#12 Mar 10, 2013
Yea, I know a few. There's a lot of habesha ppl in Toronto, and many of us either know eachother, or someone that knows the person, so habesha lol. The east african thing in toronto is to be at the shisha bar on danforth ave.
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#13 Mar 12, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
Well, I have this book unpublished called "Fat7 Madinat Harar" by an author Ya7ya ibn Nasrullaah where it talks about 405 Arabs came to Harar from Makkah in the year 612 after the Hijrah, led by Shaykh Abadir, also with him was his sons, 3Umar Qutbud-Din, 3Aliyy Feeq, A7mad ibn 3Umar among others. Also, Aba Yazeed Bastamiyy, Shaykh Isma3eel Jabartiy, Shaykh Asla7ud-Din, Sufi Ya7ya, Shaykh 3Uthman 3Arabi, and Shareef Yusuf al-Akwaan.
When they reached Harar, the author reports that the ppl of this region were the Harla and Gaturi. The ppl of the land explained to them that 25 years prior, the land was devestated with famine and the people who ruled were the Gaturi people. The Harla and Gaturi are ethnically the same ppl, but 2 tribes that spoke the same language and had the same culture, and customs.
When you read Futu7ul-7abesha, the author, Shihabud-Din A7mad ibn 3Abdul-Qadir bin Saalim bin 3Uthman, also known as Arab Faqih writes that the people of the Harar were the Harla. Among the people of the Harla, he mentions for example Amir Hussein al-Gaturi, so the the name stuck as a last name with many of the indiginous people. I Myself for example, my last name is Gaturi. My family name is "Aw Feqi Hamid Gatur". You also have the Adish family mentioned in the book as the Harla, and also they exist till today in Harar. You also have the Abogn family that exist till today in Harar, also Khalaf, etc.
The Harla people where a sizable populated group that stretched from Zayla, all the way to Shewa. However, when the Oromo raids began from the south northward, many parished or were assimilated by the Oromos. Others fled to the east and were assimilated by the Somalis. When Amir Nur built the wall around the city of Harar, the remanents became enclosed in the city. But when you go around the city of Harar in the outskirts, you see many oromo groups who claim to be descendants of the people of Harar. Also Somali tribes that claim they were originally from Harar. The siltes interestingly claim they remained in the Gurage region, but were from Harar that went to that region with the Imam, also the Wolane. The Silte's till today have customs and practices that you don't find outside the Hararis 'n themselves. I was told by a relative that went to Arusi, that there was a specific group there that all went by the last name Adare, and had many customs similar to the Harari people.
So basically, the Harla reduced in population because of a few series of events. Raids, assimilation, and migration.
Selam
Thank you Lion of Harar. Is Yahya Ibn Nasrallah's book dated? Does he mention anything about the customs and langauge of the Harla and Gatur. These two groups may be, like you said, belonged to the language group but belonged to two different houses(clan) within a tribe.
Professor Wolf Lesalu studied Gurage language and its dialects. His deciple is professor Grover Hudson. Leslau grouped Sebat Bet, Sodo, Silte, Walane, Harari(Aderinya) and Zai(language spoken by a group in and around Lake Zway). He again grouped them in terms of similarities in grammar and shared words in geographic terms. Gurage West dislaects are those of the Sebat Bet. Gurage North is Sodo. Gurage east are Harari, Silte, Walane and Zai. He believed there existed Prot-Gurage language from which all thee dislaects evolved.
I hope that from what has been maintained by Hararis and those who claim that their ancestors were Harala/Gaturi in Ethiopia and Somalia, the language and the sociology of the Harala/Gatur can be constructed. Historical linguist can do that. Wolf Leslau reconstructed the grammar of Gafat after it went extinct in the 1940s from a "song of Solomon" Gafats prepared to receive James Bruce in 1779(or around there).
Alex

Mississauga, Canada

#14 Mar 12, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
By the way, wish me luck, I'm in the process of translating "Fat7 Madinat Harar" from Arabic to English. It has only been translated into German from what I hear, but it is an unpublished book that is in its handwritten stage right now. We got it in the collection of my great grandfather, Aw A7mad Abogn.
All the best Lion of Harar. You have a very good project. I hope this will help start research into the language, sociology and history of the Harla/Gaturi group. With your publisher, plan that the book be well advertised in the media, academia other retailers such as amazon.com
cognito

San Jose, CA

#15 Mar 16, 2013
La conquista Mussulmana dell’ Etiopia nel Secolo XVI
http://archive.org/stream/laconquistamuss00ar...

As the historian Will Durant observed,“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.”

A paucity of written historical evidence would be a major constraint to our knowledge of the Harla people and its civilization - there is NOT much written other than to make an educated guess, at this point in time. Thus, the monumental ruins and art facts that they left behind are a good starting point for one to piece together as to who they were and if they are related to the people living currently in Harar and its environ .
Nevertheless, few and intermittent field works were conducted by archeologists and quasi-anthropologists and others that would be of immense help in unlocking the mystery. Alternatively, resorting to the findings of archeology, anthropology, historical linguistics, and related disciplines (yet to be realized in its full extent) as suppose to exclusively depending on oral history is preferable approach. That would give the story credence in eyes of otherwise skeptics, especially the scientific community and the secular world. Such evidence would have provided insights into why previously held myth and legend that become as a way of conventional explanation so far is false or true - the dominant theory regarding the origins, evolution and extinction of the Harla people – a good case, such as holding a notion as cursed, then doomed into a rock and giants of giant like no others etc.
My main objective here is neither to refute the oral history passed through generations nor to negate what is forwarded in this thread. More than anything else, just to re-enforce the accepted standard approach to such matters, as one of those who believes the science aspect of it is a plus to subject matter under discussion.
Encyclopaedia Aethiopica: D-Ha
edited by Siegbert Uhlig
http://books.google.ca/books...

There might be out there manuscripts that were NOT published, which could be of some help, in shading a light on this. That as may, here are the following studies that have been conducted regarding the issues at hand in the field:
cognito

San Jose, CA

#16 Mar 16, 2013
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4034155...

“As a former archaeologist, there are some mysteries I want to explore. I'll visit the ruins of Harla, said to be the predecessor to Harar, and investigate the prehistoric cave paintings at Kundudo, the region's sacred mountain. I'll descend into the Somali desert to visit Chinhahsan, where the 16th century conqueror Ahmad The Left-Handed is rumored to have had the capital of his vast but brief empire. Among the ruined castle and crumbling city walls I'll look for the truth behind the legend.”
http://scholar.google.com/scholar...
“So little is known about the Harla, and so little archaeological research has been done here, that for the time being all we have are legends of a race of giants who once ruled the land.”
http://www.gadling.com/2011/03/29/harla-ethio...
http://etio.webs.com/thenextexploration.htm

“Harla – in the name of a population that is mentioned in Arabic and Ethiopia historical sources since the 14th cent. IN-al-mfaddal’s chronicle (quoted in CerIslam 264) they are subject to the[ king of Abyssinia], together with Damot, in later sources, the so-called chrocile of Amdi Scion. The Futuh –al- habash and the Awsa chronicle, they are allied to such Muslim leaders as the Qadi, Salib, Ahmad b. Ibrahim al-Ghazi and the Imam Muhammed. In the Futuh the Harla are one of the four main components of Imam’s army, together with the Somali, the Ma’la’say and the Arabs – one of their main settlement areas (Arab-balad) in Zarba (Bassttist 97)

The late, Fath Madinat Harar, reports one of the oral traditions that is told now in south- eastern Ethiopia. The Harla were a tribe that lived in the region of Harar in older times and dispersed because of plague and famine (cf. Wag Fath 46f)
…..According to other traditions, the Harla were giants who built the ruined settlements in the area of Giggiga and were punished by God, who sent against them a terrible wind that transformed everybody it reached into large rocks, still to be seen between Dire Dawa and Harar ( S. Mohammed Abdi, Mohammed 1990-350). Between these two towns there is also a village called Harla, where an Arabic funerary inscription from 44? Hijri (ca 1048-57) A.D) has been founded (Schneider 1969)
At the end of the day: More field research both by anthropologists and archeologists and by linguist is needed on this interesting and fascinating subject.”

La conquista Mussulmana dell’ Etiopia nel Secolo XVI
http://archive.org/stream/laconquistamuss00ar...

http://www.worldcat.org/title/conquista-mussu...

Arabic Literature of Africa, Volume 3; Volume 53
edited by John O. Hunwick, Rex Seán O'Fahey
cf page # 34 and in addition it lists all Arabic literature in Harar, very helpful for any student of that particular subject.

http://books.google.com/books... 'etiopia&pg=PA62#v=snippet &q=fath%20&f=false

“…. HOW CAN WE know who we are if we don't know where we come from? It is clear from many fragments of evidence, traditions and lore that we have an incomplete picture of the earliest days of human civilization. It's possible that whole civilizations, some with advanced technology, have come and gone. At the very least, human culture reaches much further back in time than conventional history admits. There are many mysteries in our ancient past, but there may be clues to that past around the world in the form of sunken cities, ancient structures, cryptic hieroglyphics, artwork and more.”
cognito

San Jose, CA

#17 Mar 16, 2013
Lion of Harar wrote:
By the way, wish me luck, I'm in the process of translating "Fat7 Madinat Harar" from Arabic to English..
wish u the best, regarding the above project!
cognito

San Jose, CA

#18 Mar 16, 2013
let us see, if this time the link works:)

Arabic Literature of Africa, Volume 3; Volume 53
edited by John O. Hunwick, Rex Seán O'Fahey
cf page # 34 sort of bibliography for all works written in Arabic as it pertains to Ethiopia, especially Harar.

http://books.google.com/books... 'etiopia&pg=PA62#v=snippet &q=fath%20&f=false
cognito

San Jose, CA

#19 Mar 16, 2013
http://books.google.com/books... 'etiopia&pg=PA62#v=snippet &q=fath%20&f=false
cognito

San Jose, CA

#20 Mar 16, 2013

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