Trial in Estonia Angers Moscow

The trial of a World War II Red Army veteran on charges of genocide in Estonia has drawn angry charges from the Foreign Ministry and promises from State Duma deputies on Wednesday that they will issue a formal ...

[Why_Me]

Typical Russians. Instead of acknowledging their crimes, they threaten Estonia for prosecuting a known criminal.

[pesky]

if there were crimes commited during that war, then we should procecute half of america´s government for crimes in iraq !

[Why_Me]

pesky wrote:

if there were crimes commited during that war, then we should procecute half of america´s government for crimes in iraq !

I fully agree with you. I would like to see Bush, Cheney, Karl Rowe, and Rumsfield prosecuted at the Hague right now for what they have done. It probably will never happen, but it should happen.

[pesky]

i feel, it´s pretty hard to procecute old men for war crimes when most of them were taking orders only,
no war was, is or will be fair !
atrocities were done before, are done even these days, why don´t we try to live in harmony instead ?
should these mickey mouse republics be allowed to stir up trouble, just because some commie pigs were committing crimes before, as we all know the evil of stalin ?
hitler was an angel !

[Why_Me]

pesky wrote:

i feel, it´s pretty hard to procecute old men for war crimes when most of them were taking orders only,
no war was, is or will be fair !
atrocities were done before, are done even these days, why don´t we try to live in harmony instead ?
should these mickey mouse republics be allowed to stir up trouble, just because some commie pigs were committing crimes before, as we all know the evil of stalin ?
hitler was an angel !

He won't do anytime even if prosecuted. But I agree that with his age, it seems stupid to push this to trial. I don't know who's idea it was to go ahead with this but it seems a bit redundent.

[pesky]

even though most of these dorks are old, still i would like to see him to get some reprimand, perhaps, street sweeping for the rest of their lives will do the trick ?

[Why_Me]

pesky wrote:

even though most of these dorks are old, still i would like to see him to get some reprimand, perhaps, street sweeping for the rest of their lives will do the trick ?

Leave him be I say. I mean I am not condoning what he did, but he's 88 years old and I doubt very much Estonia is going to get any good press out of this.

[pesky]

we´d one of these so called good man throughout that only obeyed orders and he too was released,
still for the sake of justice..make him pay for it !
i´d send him to meet that frogbesier-frenchy and stay with him at least one week, that will teach him..?

[Why_Me]

pesky wrote:

we´d one of these so called good man throughout that only obeyed orders and he too was released,
still for the sake of justice..make him pay for it !
i´d send him to meet that frogbesier-frenchy and stay with him at least one week, that will teach him..?

One week with Robispierre and that old Estonian man is going to beg for a quick death...LOL

[pesky]

oh no, he´s that good ?
we haven´t seen him here lately, must be hunting for some frog legs...?
have you ever tried them ?
as matter of fact, i´ve taste them, it´s pretty good, a bottle of riesling with it, well worth it..
perhaps, he´ll gallop in and gives us some recipe, sort of endow us with his words of wisdom ?

[costakis karseras]

It is a well known fact that many Estonians have served in the Nazi army. An army which was racist send millions of people in the Gas chambers costed so many deaths and so much distraction to our world. How many of this Estonian Nazi have been prosecuted by Estonia? We are crateful to the Soviet army from playing a big part for an Allied Victory. Let the man free

[huub]

Of course he must be tried. Crime against humanity are imprescriptible.
The guy don't even denies that he took part of the deportations. He justifies it! That's just sick.

[huub]

costakis karseras wrote:

It is a well known fact that many Estonians have served in the Nazi army. An army which was racist send millions of people in the Gas chambers costed so many deaths and so much distraction to our world. How many of this Estonian Nazi have been prosecuted by Estonia?

There have been some trials. There's just 1 problem: we don't have any left. The soviets had 50 years to prosecute them and they were quite comprehensive.
However, Estonia has condemned all Estonian war criminals and apologized for them repeatedly.
Both, the soviet and the nazi regime are declared criminal here.

costakis karseras wrote:

We are crateful to the Soviet army from playing a big part for an Allied Victory.

Indeed, one terror regime defeated another terror regime.

costakis karseras wrote:

Let the man free

He is free. He's just on trial and has not been arrested.
But why can't we prosecute a criminal? Because he was/is a soviet?

[costakis karseras]

It appears to me that the hatred which some of you feel towards the Soviet Union and now Russia is beyond any reasonable bounds. Surely, you have not suffered as much as the black South Africans in the hands of the apartheid regime. Nelson Mandela who spent 28 years in prison had the courage to forgive his criminal torturers and the inhuman oppressors of his people. And now Estonia wants to take revenge on an old man after so many years?

From Wikipedia:“The extended Meri family was split in the middle between those supporting the Soviet Union and the Allies of WWII and those opposing the Soviets“
My conclusion from the above is that the ones who opposed the Soviets and the Allies were pro Nazi.

[Why_Me]

costakis karseras wrote:

It appears to me that the hatred which some of you feel towards the Soviet Union and now Russia is beyond any reasonable bounds. Surely, you have not suffered as much as the black South Africans in the hands of the apartheid regime. Nelson Mandela who spent 28 years in prison had the courage to forgive his criminal torturers and the inhuman oppressors of his people. And now Estonia wants to take revenge on an old man after so many years?
From Wikipedia:“The extended Meri family was split in the middle between those supporting the Soviet Union and the Allies of WWII and those opposing the Soviets“
My conclusion from the above is that the ones who opposed the Soviets and the Allies were pro Nazi.

The only people who do not feel hatred for the Soviet Union are a large population of Russians, and a few mentally ill and immoral corrupted people of other nationalities. Anyone in their right mind that condones what the Soviet Union did should seek help as soon as possible for the fact they have some serious moral issues.

[huub]

costakis karseras wrote:

It appears to me that the hatred which some of you feel towards the Soviet Union and now Russia is beyond any reasonable bounds. Surely, you have not suffered as much as the black South Africans in the hands of the apartheid regime. Nelson Mandela who spent 28 years in prison had the courage to forgive his criminal torturers and the inhuman oppressors of his people.

How can you forgive and forget if the successor of the criminals doesn't say sorry? She doesn't even admit that those crimes happened.

costakis karseras wrote:

And now Estonia wants to take revenge on an old man after so many years?

I really don't understand people like you. What's wrong in prosecuting criminals? Why can't we have a trial against him? Because he was/is a soviet? Because it happened long time ago?
Crimes against humanity don't expire. And the guy openly admits that he took part of it. He doesn't feel sorry, he justifies the crimes.

costakis karseras wrote:

From Wikipedia:“The extended Meri family was split in the middle between those supporting the Soviet Union and the Allies of WWII and those opposing the Soviets“
My conclusion from the above is that the ones who opposed the Soviets and the Allies were pro Nazi.

LOL
well, your statement is just stupid. Anti soviet is not automatically pro-nazi. There are plenty of more choices, one of them is pro-free-Estonia.

[costakis karseras]

Your comments are characterised by “civilized and deep humanitarian feelings” for which I am “grateful”. You haven’t found a single word to say about the noble Nelson Mandela who is respected throughout the world because of his capacity to forgive.
Many Estonians fought with the Soviet Union (which was a member of the alliance) against Nazi Germany. Many Estonians fought in the German Army against the Allies. Some of you call them freedom fighters which is your business. I am sill grateful to the Soviet Army and the Allies who saved our world from the Nazis. However, if some young Estonians were forced into the Nazi army I do sympathise with them.

What I don’t understand is that there are people who attack and want to take revenge on an old man whilst they embrace and honour war criminals and people who have Nazi ideologies.

.(see Ukraine, Ukrainien : les news)“Estonia, Nazism: a Minister Claims Being Nazi in a Former SS Meeting !
Tuesday 7 August 2007
During last week’s commemoration, in the small Estonian town of Sinimiae, elderly veterans from Estonia, Norway and Austria travelled three hours by charter bus from Tallinn, the Estonian capital. They were accompanied by dozens of young followers dressed in T-shirts with Nazi symbols, along with Estonian officials, including Parliament member Trivimi Velliste and Minister of Defense Jak Aaviksoo.”

“Jerusalem - The Simon Wiesenthal Centre released the full text of its sixth Annual Status Report on the Worldwide Investigation and Prosecution of Nazi War Criminals, which covers the period from April 1, 2006 until March 31, 2007.

For the second year in a row, Estonia has received a failing grade [F], which reflects the ongoing failure of the Estonian judicial authorities to take successful legal action against Estonian Nazi war criminal Michael Gorshkow.”

Finally, I visited a cemetery in a small German town were civilians, Soviet and German soldiers are buried. All graves are kept in very good order. Another civilized example of how to treat the dead with RESPECT.

[huub]

costakis karseras wrote:

Many Estonians fought with the Soviet Union (which was a member of the alliance) against Nazi Germany. Many Estonians fought in the German Army against the Allies.

Not against the Allies! Just against the SU who had just occupied us for 2 years. 2 years full of terror, killings, rapes, torture and deportations.

costakis karseras wrote:

Some of you call them freedom fighters which is your business.

Freedom fighters are the ones who fought for a free Estonia, in which uniform ever.
Estonians who took part of war crimes are no freedom fighters.

costakis karseras wrote:

I am sill grateful to the Soviet Army and the Allies who saved our world from the Nazis. However, if some young Estonians were forced into the Nazi army I do sympathise with them.

But don't forget that the soviets were not much better. Eastern Europe witnessed the same terror from the soviets.

costakis karseras wrote:

What I don’t understand is that there are people who attack and want to take revenge on an old man whilst they embrace and honour war criminals and people who have Nazi ideologies.

I don't understand such people either. But luckily that's not the case in Estonia.
We are having a trial against a war criminal and we despise and condemn all war criminals. Be them nazis or soviets.

costakis karseras wrote:

.(see Ukraine, Ukrainien : les news)“Estonia, Nazism: a Minister Claims Being Nazi in a Former SS Meeting !
Tuesday 7 August 2007
During last week’s commemoration, in the small Estonian town of Sinimiae, elderly veterans from Estonia, Norway and Austria travelled three hours by charter bus from Tallinn, the Estonian capital. They were accompanied by dozens of young followers dressed in T-shirts with Nazi symbols, along with Estonian officials, including Parliament member Trivimi Velliste and Minister of Defense Jak Aaviksoo.”

LOL
Where do you get such rubbish?:D
That's just 100% a lie! Any references or pictures?:D I guess not :D

costakis karseras wrote:

“Jerusalem - The Simon Wiesenthal Centre released the full text of its sixth Annual Status Report on the Worldwide Investigation and Prosecution of Nazi War Criminals, which covers the period from April 1, 2006 until March 31, 2007.
For the second year in a row, Estonia has received a failing grade [F], which reflects the ongoing failure of the Estonian judicial authorities to take successful legal action against Estonian Nazi war criminal Michael Gorshkow.”

The Wiesenthal Centre is a joke since Zuroff is in charge. Noone takes it serious anymore.

costakis karseras wrote:

Finally, I visited a cemetery in a small German town were civilians, Soviet and German soldiers are buried. All graves are kept in very good order. Another civilized example of how to treat the dead with RESPECT.

Indeed. But what has this to do with Estonia? There are plenty of such cemeteries in Estonia too. 1 such example is the military cemetery where the bronze soldier is now located.

[the-end]

if he was nazi, then russia talks different story

[Why_Me]

costakis karseras wrote:

Your comments are characterised by “civilized and deep humanitarian feelings” for which I am “grateful”. You haven’t found a single word to say about the noble Nelson Mandela who is respected throughout the world because of his capacity to forgive.
Many Estonians fought with the Soviet Union (which was a member of the alliance) against Nazi Germany. Many Estonians fought in the German Army against the Allies. Some of you call them freedom fighters which is your business. I am sill grateful to the Soviet Army and the Allies who saved our world from the Nazis. However, if some young Estonians were forced into the Nazi army I do sympathise with them.
What I don’t understand is that there are people who attack and want to take revenge on an old man whilst they embrace and honour war criminals and people who have Nazi ideologies.
.(see Ukraine, Ukrainien : les news)“Estonia, Nazism: a Minister Claims Being Nazi in a Former SS Meeting !
Tuesday 7 August 2007
During last week’s commemoration, in the small Estonian town of Sinimiae, elderly veterans from Estonia, Norway and Austria travelled three hours by charter bus from Tallinn, the Estonian capital. They were accompanied by dozens of young followers dressed in T-shirts with Nazi symbols, along with Estonian officials, including Parliament member Trivimi Velliste and Minister of Defense Jak Aaviksoo.”
“Jerusalem - The Simon Wiesenthal Centre released the full text of its sixth Annual Status Report on the Worldwide Investigation and Prosecution of Nazi War Criminals, which covers the period from April 1, 2006 until March 31, 2007.
For the second year in a row, Estonia has received a failing grade [F], which reflects the ongoing failure of the Estonian judicial authorities to take successful legal action against Estonian Nazi war criminal Michael Gorshkow.”
Finally, I visited a cemetery in a small German town were civilians, Soviet and German soldiers are buried. All graves are kept in very good order. Another civilized example of how to treat the dead with RESPECT.

Save it. Estonia does not honor any war criminals, the Simon Wiesanthal Center has lost clout amongst many nations after is falsley accused several "OLD MEN" as being NAZI war criminals....false identity was the major reason, but it did little good for the OLD MEN falsley accused by the Wiesanthal Center after all was said and done.

Russia fighting against Germany has little value amongst many of us on this forum for the fact it was Russia who not only started WW2 along with it's NAZI ally, but it was Russia that supported it's ally NAZI Germany with fuel and raw materials in NAZI Germany's fight against the west..RE: France, UK, Australia, etc... up until Operation Barbarossa when Hitler decided to attack Stalin.

It was the Russian NKVD who had 4 conferences with their NAZI counterparts the Gestapo on how to better eliminate the Poles...sans the Katyn Massacre as just one exampe of the outcome of said meetings.

It was the Russians who illegally annexed the Baltics along with eastern Europe when they decided to split Europe in two with their ally's the NAZI's.

It is the Russians who not only are starting to lie about Katyn Massacre again....just like all the SU leaders did after him, but it is the Russians who refuse to acknowledge the Soviet Unions occupation of the Baltics.

It is Russia who has bulldozed several war memorials in honor of Red Army veterans to make way for land devolopment yet it was Russia who visciously attacked Estonia's decision to move the Bronze Soldier to a better place.

It is Russia who has now officially changed her history books in school to teach that Stalin was Russia's greatest leader to date, and that his crimes were for the greater good.

Need I go on.....?